Sam_teddie,

You are right (even though it is difficult to handle)that it is important to work on your own healing. I know that I just need to leave my wife emotionally (and physically) until she (if ever) decides that she wants any kind of emotional closeness, even if just as friends. I think that it is so easy to think that something needs to be fixed.

What is hardest for me, is knowing the best way for fixing things is by not being with my best friend anymore. At least that would help heal her, as well as myself in many ways, even if that does not mean being healed and being close again.

That is probably how you should think I would guess. I'm sorry that it has been hard for both of us. Maybe people get this way and too reliant on each other sometimes when things go bad simply because they don't put God first. I will need to start doing this. I think I truly have become a real believer in the past couple of days. I should be happy for that, and I am.

I think it is true, you can't make anyone stay (hard for me to believe), and I guess the best hope of them ever coming back (or letting you come back) is to not hold them back, or they will resent it even more. Maybe the whole thing has to do with having felt held back for so long (in the case of my wife at least)

Good luck, and keep posting

Gregg

Thanks so much for your good advice, and for telling me about the book. I will have to make sure I get it as soon as possible.

Keep posting,

Gregg

I just met with my wife and we are starting Plan B. I told her that I need emotional independence in order to "live". I can not put myself in harms way any more. It is to painful. So she and I created a budget and I will not be speaking to her until Sunday, my son's birthday party. I have requested that we have no communication because I am scared of getting hurt anymore.

I am so scared. This feels so wrong (as you mentioned) and I can not believe this is going to help us. She thinks that I am trying to punish her. I told her that it could not be farther from the truth. I am trying to save myself. I can not continue to go through this pain and live. I need to worry about myself. I will try to write her a Plan B letter and make sure she understands that I do care for her immensely and that I want things to work out, and I will be here on the other side. I need her to know that I love her dearly. I want her to know that I will always be here for her.

Hi guys,
I've not been on in a couple of days and was catching up on the news tonight. Giving up is the hardest thing to do. However, coming from the other end of this spectrum as having been in the same position as your wife, it was very hard for us to get to the point of giving up to avoid further pain. I can't speak for you wife gregg, but I spent 20 years hoping things would get better and they did but it never lasted. I don't know exactly why or how things have changed now, but they have. What you are experiencing now, the pain etc, may very possibly be what your wife has been experiencing for a while. I did a lot of reading on here as I was contemplating my decision of whether to stay or leave and I felt like I learned a lot from the guys on here. Men and women do not think alike nor do they communcate in the same way...at least in my life. It was really hard for my H to open up and talk to me. On this site tho, some of the guys really opened up and poured their hearts out. I couldn't help but wonder if my H would open up and talk to me, would this be how he felt? I always try to see the other person's point of view and give it consideration, even if I don't agree. I think this is why I was able to give H another chance. Someone once asked me in the midst of my misery what it would take to give him another chance. I told him it would take an act of God and he would have to change my heart but then I had to open to the change. Well, I don't really know what I've said here tonight.

Take care of yourself, be totaly honest with yourself and healing will come. It may not save your relationship and it may. But one thing is for sure, you will be a whole person and be able to like yourelf for who you are.

Take care
Free

GreggC,

I thought about something last night and wanted to bring it here... Now think about this for a second: How many times have you heard or read here at MB, about a spouse who actually truly "let their partner go" and then their partner who had been "let go" saw that as the spouse simply "giving up"?

Does that make sense? Usually the BS so wants to hold on, and to send cards, gifts, letters, phone calls, talk, see the other person, BECAUSE the BS thinks that the WS will somehow forget them or think the BS doesn't really care... But how many times did that actually put the final nail in the coffin of the relationship? I will make a bet not very often at all...

What seems to be the case is that as soon as the BS is able to "let go", one of two things happens - The BS realizes that they themselves no longer want to be with the WS, OR the WS doesn't understand the change in behavior and it causes them to reach out to the BS (which is what the BS wanted all along).

Maybe this is thought that I had is trivial and we have all heard it before, but it seemed "new" to me last night as I thought about it. Here we are so afraid to "let go", when in actuality, logically, it is probably the BEST thing we can do. And in many ways it IS a gift to the other person...

It just doesn't "feel" right to the BS and I think that is what makes it so hard to actually do...

Does this make any sense? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Mike

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Usually the BS so wants to hold on, and to send cards, gifts, letters, phone calls, talk, see the other person, BECAUSE the BS thinks that the WS will somehow forget them or think the BS doesn't really care... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I sure hope you are right. This is my only hope. As I said before, Free, you are very insightful. I hope you keep posting because you have great thoughts.

I have joined a support group at the local church. I am not religious, but the church seems to be the only local community that offers support for marriages. I was learning about boundaries (Cloud and Townsend - they have a book), and they were teaching us about what whe can and can not control. He said, "Look at your finger. See the skin at the end of your finger. Inside that skin is what you can control and outside that skin is what you can not control."

I also learned about that I need to care for myself. My W is trying to be honest and with God, but is not acting with God. If she was, she could talk with me and not hurt me. Hurt is not a value that God proposes.

Realize that all this is coming from a person that is not religious and yet the Bible seems to put this stuff in great context.

My greatest sorrow is that my wife is hurting. She needs support and help, but she will not let me help. I want to be there and offer support and love, but she has pushed me away. She does not see that and believes she is only being honest, but God would allow her to be honest without the hurt. Then I can help her all she wants. I wish I could be the support and help that she needs, but it is not I can give it to her. She will not allow it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Usually the BS so wants to hold on, and to send cards, gifts, letters, phone calls, talk, see the other person, BECAUSE the BS thinks that the WS will somehow forget them or think the BS doesn't really care... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I sure hope you are right. This is my only hope. As I said before, Free, you are very insightful. I hope you keep posting because you have great thoughts.

I have joined a support group at the local church. I am not religious, but the church seems to be the only local community that offers support for marriages. I was learning about boundaries (Cloud and Townsend - they have a book), and they were teaching us about what whe can and can not control. He said, "Look at your finger. See the skin at the end of your finger. Inside that skin is what you can control and outside that skin is what you can not control."

I also learned about that I need to care for myself. My W is trying to be honest and with God, but is not acting with God. If she was, she could talk with me and not hurt me. Hurt is not a value that God proposes.

Realize that all this is coming from a person that is not religious and yet the Bible seems to put this stuff in great context.

My greatest sorrow is that my wife is hurting. She needs support and help, but she will not let me help. I want to be there and offer support and love, but she has pushed me away. She does not see that and believes she is only being honest, but God would allow her to be honest without the hurt. Then I can help her all she wants. I wish I could be the support and help that she needs, but it is not I can give it to her. She will not allow it.

Hi SamieT:

Sorry that this is hard. Althought I have never had to deal with infidelity in this marriage, making a decision to become emotionally independent must have been one of the hardest things ever.

I think that your wife has should respect that you need to somehow ease your pain, ifshe truly cares about your happiness. She may just be reacting with hurt as well and getting her ego hurt. It would be easy, I would think, to think that maybe she is just trying to get even by your telling her this.

I wish I could give you advice, but I am trying to understand why my wife is shutting me off emotionally, and it is probably for the same reason. (I asked my wife, "What's happened to us? You seem to have completely shut me out emotionally." I told her I just wanted to be her friend and be there for her, even just as a friend. She says that she just needs some space before we can be friends again. I think that this is a way that I think that she truly believes will help ease her pain

I would continue to tell her that you care about her, but that you need to deal with your own pain. I know it is hard, but I am getting close to being able to detach myself emotionally from my wife, and keep praying for her happiness, and for her to soften her heart. It seems to make it easier.

I would simply try to treat her with kindness without dexpecting anything emotionally (how ever hard that may be)I think that is what Jesus would do. To make yourself whole and ease the pain for you, and her as well, even if should happen that the two of you can't be together again, I think that kindness and forgiveness will help you.

It sounds like you are being the kindest person that you can be, but at the same time being kind to yourself. I feel for you, but I bet you are doing the best thing that you can do right now.

Gregg

sam_teddie and sotired200:

I don't know what to say about the BS (betrayed spouse?) not being forgotten about by the WS (withdrawn spouse?), but it makes sense I guess. I'm wondering how much of a presence should the BS have in the WS's life (Don't ever be the first one to call the BS, or make an excuse to call once a week?) Should the BS ever ask the WS to do anything together, and if so how often?

I can surely say that I can see the concern with totally removing yourself from any relationship that the WD will never even think that the BS would ever be reinterested in trying again if it ever gets to that point.

How do you somehow still let your WS know that you would still be interested in restoration of the marriage, and to let you know if he/she ever changes his/her mind?

Gregg

Hi Free,

Glad you're back! I am interested in something...

It sounds like you guys never seperated. I think delaying separation is probably not much of an option for us any more.

I am wondering what kinds of things did you guys do together to begin the restoration process. Did you guys start having dates again. Did your husband give you lots and lots of space, and was he gone a lot of the time to give you space?

Were you completely closed off emotionally for a while, and did you guys talk during this time. (What kinds of things did you talk about.) I am interested in how your intereactions were like during this time.

Thanks,

Gregg

I have no idea. There are basically two things that happen when you seperate:

Absense makes the heart grow fonder
Out of sight, out of mind

This is why seperation is so hard. I just know that for me right now seperation is working for her and me. It really has not worked for me until I have decided that I am giving up emotional attachment to her until she is really ready to stop hurting me. I only made that decision 2 days ago and it was 2 of the most painful days of my life. Today I feel better knowing that I am not waiting for my wife to call or email, and she is certainly not looking for me to call or email. I have told her that I will not. I have taken myself out of harms way. I still hurt and will continue to hurt, but I really feel like I have made the best decision for my wife, my self and my relationship. We all needed some seperation to heal and get stronger.

I am not going to actively look to do anything with her for the forseeable future. She called me today to set up things and find out about the kids and so she is know pursuing me. Nothing has changed and we are still seperated, but I am not needer her - atleast for the moment.

Hi again,
You are right, we never physically seperated. I think at times it would have helped us both. We just avoided eachother mostly. I traveled a lot with my job over the last 2 years. He would be upset and pick a fight everytime right before time to go. It hurt me that he did this, but he did this because he was feeling insecure and thought I mainly went to get away from him and he was right. I told him so when we started talking again. He was very mean to me and the kids but then again most of it was his insecurities. But I don't care why he did it, we could not tollerate it. It's nobody's fault but his if he was insecure.

We cannot depend on someone else to make us happy, feel secure, or whatever. We have to build those characters ourself. I'm not saying it isn't nice when someone adds to the security or happiness. Believe it or not when you are comfortable and honest with yourself you have a lot more to offer others. When you depend on someone else to fulfill every need, it is an awsome burden on that person you are depending on. I was miserable in the relationship for a long time and don't know why I stayed as long as I did with things so bad but I can only assume it was because I wanted to.

I would like to say this; emotional detatchment is a process, not something say you're going to do today. You can begin today but it is a long process. I'm not saying it is the answer, I'm just saying for some reason it allowed me to get into a place to see things from a different view, with a new perspective.

I didn't give my H another chance because I felt sorry for him or couldn't live without him. I just figured one more chance wouldn't ruin my life or his and you always have a chance to end it but you may not always have a chance to save it.

I think one thing that happens, when we step away and give space to our spouse, is empowerment. It removes the pressure and gives them a chance to catch thier breath, examine what they want and a choice to make if they so choose. It says I love you enough to give you this time and repect you wishes, even if I don't like it.

You can put pressure, beg, plead and promise to get someone to stay with you and some people are weak enough to give in to this for what ever reason. But you cannot make someone love you, be happy or content with you or care about you if they don't want to. So really there is not much risk in seperating in my opinion. Why would you want to keep someone against their will? If they want to be with you they will tell you.

There will hopefully come a time that you can safely tell them that is what you want without running the risk of pushing them away. I cannot tell you how or when this might happen. There are no written screen plays for life. We just have to play it out one scene at a time, hopefully we have spent enough time to get to know our own feelings, identify them, guage our reactions and correct what we need to before it causes undue damage.

Do you guys ever think about what you are feeeling and try to identify it. You may be upset but is it fear, dread, sadness, lonliness?
When you learn to identifiy a particualr feeling, you are better able to find a solution. You may be acting out in anger and it could be stemmed from fear of loosing your spouse but instead of facing the fear for what it is and doing something about it, you blow up in anger and hurt the very person you fear loosing. Then frustration kicks in because that is not how you meant for things to go at all, but they did...again. I am skeaking from the voice of experience here. It is impairative that we get to know our selves, learn to identify specific feelings and emotions so we can deal with them realistically and effectively. I don't know if this is making any sense or I am actually communicating what I intend here.You can't mask feelings because they are too hard to face, you can't face them if you haven't learned to identify them and you sure can't do the right thing to alleviate a problem if you are off fighting under a pretense.

Ok I have babbled long enough. Your turn.
Thanks for all the compliments but you guys are doing a good thing trying to help youselves. When old ways no longer work you have to start thinking "out of the box". I'll post one of those famous stories next.

Thanks and hang in there.

Ok here is an OUT of the BOX story. These are really thought provoking.No!" he shouted, smashing his fist on the
kitchen bar, eyes glaring. "I'm right, and you
know I'm right! There's no way in hell I'm wrong!
I know what I'm doing...now shut up and leave me
alone!"

And so she did, and so did his kids, and he
cried quietly, alone, as they left and his life
fell apart...

...because he had to be right.

Had to be the one with all the "right" answers
for himself and everyone else. The one who "knew
best" and told everyone else what they had to
think, do, and believe to fit in with what he
believed was "right".

But what he *didn't* know was that he'd become
an arrogant jerk. A know-it-all petty dictator
who had to have things *his* way...and that was
the real reason he was now losing the people he
loved most.

Go after them? Apologize? Admit he'd been wrong?
Ask them to forgive him? Change?

Forgetaboutit!

Because in his mind he'd been *right*...been the
way he'd been taught to be all his life. The way
his father has been and his grandfather before
him. The way a "real man" was "supposed to be"
because, he believed, "men *do* know best!"

So he chose, as dumb as it seems and as much as
it hurt, to stay locked in his old box, his old
thinking, and be "right"...instead of happy.

Feel like you've hit the wall? Like you're going
nowhere fast? Scared? Could well be you're stuck
in the "gotta be right" box, and it's time to
break out and find some new answers so you can
get more of what you're after.

How?

1) Begin by admitting it when what you're doing
isn't working anymore. How will you know? Easy:
you hurt and life sucks! The secret? *DO NOT*
paste on a happy face and "make the best of it".
Tell yourself the truth: this game is over and
it's time to move on.

2) Accept that the real reason thing's aren't
working is because some of your old beliefs
aren't working anymore. Maybe they used to, but
things have changed. If some part of you, for
example, still believes "father knows best" and
you're trying to live that out, you're in for a
world of hurt. Why? Because what's true is the
only person who knows best for you is you. And
you only know what's best for *you*, not every-
one else. To try and live any other way is to
invite misery.

3) Admit there *are* other ways to believe,
think, and act that are equally valid. And that's
hard, because most of us have been trained to
believe that our way is *the* way and other ways
are wrong! So we stubbornly refuse to even
consider the possibility of another way...until
we hurt so badly we've got to. Like a friend of
mine who refused to even consider acupuncture
and other alternative therapies until he'd
exhausted all his old remedies and still hurt
so bad he had no other choice.

4) Find some new out-of-the-box beliefs and use
them to take different actions. How? Do it the
quick way: hang out with people who don't think
and live the way you do, and let them expose
you to new ways of thinking and being that will
blow up your box! Yea, I know...too scary, and,
of course, those "weirdo's are wrong". Maybe...
but I'll bet you good money they'll expose you
to new ways of thinking and being that'll break
you free and help you finally get what you want.

5) Finally, find some people who've already
gotten out of the box you're trying to get out
of...people who've already got what you want...
and ask them for help. That's right, *ask them*
...and then let the help in when they give it.

Will all this work? Sure...*if* you'd rather be
happy than just be right.

© Pat Lynch, 2003. All rights reserved.

Please feel free to forward this on.

***********

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always wanted.

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Phone: (602) 689-7904

Thanks, Free.

To tell you the truth, I'm not certain what she is feeling. I am actually afraid to ask her anything more at this point. I feel that it would just make things worse to talk until after I have moved out. However, from what she says she just wants to feel relief and no pressure and space to just be alone and do what she wants.

We never seem to get angry. At this point I don't knwo if I should ask her to identify what she is feeling. I'm afraid of what I might hear.

I did tell her today while we were eating dinner together (we don't have a lot to say around each other these days) that I really had wished we had had the chance to get to know each other each other, and that I sure would like to get the chance to really know each other some day. I said I never got to know what you really liked to do. We never got the chance to read a book together. I never got a chance to find out what she dreams about, and what she is scared of. I said I never let her have a chance to get to know what I dream about and am scared of. I said I'm sorry. I guess I alway thought I was burdening you with my feelings, but that would have propably really made you feel special. I told her I never took the time to sit down with her and watch British Movies with her (which is one of her passions, and I used to just say I wasn't interested or complain about it.)

She at first was kind of puzzled that I said that (After almost 6 years of marriage, "what do you mean we never go to know each other." But then she realized it was relly true.

I really just felt like telling her this and it was kind of sad. I don't know if I should have done this, because it seem when we talk about stuff like this, it just is a sad thing, and I wonder if that just drives her away more.

What do you think?

Gregg

Thanks for all your information,

I'm brand new to this board and MB website. I wish I would have found it a few years sooner.

Anyway my situation is the same as GreggC. Yesterday my wife said she wanted a divorce. For exactly the same reasons. I perswaded her to a seperation and actually ended up that I can stay in the other half of the house until I PCS in 1 year or so. However she said she was done at peace with hereself and could never love me agian because I was unable to open up to here. And that the seperation would be like a divorce she needs her own space no snooping, asking to many questions, etc or else I'm out of the house.

A little background. I have lied to her about pornography which she already new ab out. I have hurt her by not being open and honest with here and trying to deal with our problem by not dealing with them. She has come to me on several occasions and said she was not happy and I blew her off, one time I even told her she was pyscho. However it has been 6 weeks since the incident that kicked it all off. 6 weeks ago she when out on a girls night out and never came home. Then the next week end she said she needed space and never came home. I know there is another man.

In the 6 weeks I have been total and brutly honest with her and we have extensively been talking. A few weeks ago I told her she needs to choose between me or him and that I wanted the answer to that when I got back from a 2 week business trip. We agree that there would be no communication durning that time other than the fact on I was able to call to let her know when I was returning. Well yesterday I called to let her know that I will be returning tommorrow and she was really chastizing me and very distant. So I said whats wrong and how are you really doing? Then I popped the question that I asked her earlier and she said she wanted a divorce.

Well my question to you all how long to I try to convince her to work things out? and during a separtation how hard should you try? Should I just give up pull out as well to see what will happen or should I hang in there. How you do deal with not knowing if there is any hope there?

I do have individual counseling set up for myself to work on my problems that I have.

thanks for any help

Hello,
First of all, I don't mean this to sound harsh, but GC you ask some questions that nobody else can really answer. It sounds as tho you are grasping at anything to have a chance to hold on. Your wife can probably sense this too. If you find that "quick fix" it wont help you in the long run. It is likely that things willget right back to where they are right now without some changes with yourself.

As far as identifying feelings, you should not be concerned if she does this or not you should be working on yourself, getting to know YOU. You sound very confused on what to do next at every turn, which portrays a desperate person. You don't want to be desperate. We all wantwhat wewant but we have to be strong enough to be ok if we don't get it.

As far as never having the chance to get to know your wife after 6 years, well I doubt if that is really accurate. Six years is a while to get to know someone. It sounds more like you didn't put forth the effort to get to know her. This is what I am talking about when I say to be totaly honest with yourself. You had the chance, you didn't take it or you blew it. Be honest with yourself. As long as there is an excuse, there won't be any real changes taking place.

When we loose something we find out was really important to us and we want it back, we are willing to pay almost any price to get it. Yet while we had it we realize we didn't put much effort into keeping it. There comes a time when no matter how bad we want something, it may not be available at any price. You, like a lot of people are learning that a little late in the game of life. That's why it is important to get to know yourself, set some goals, be able to identify you feelings and you will better know how to correct yourself when things start going wrong.

I told my H that I would give him another chance, but it was not like restoring our marriage. I was finished with it, at peace with myself and I was ready to move on. I told him, in front of the counselor that he could start over, win me back and it would be a new relationship. We did go on some dates, but mostly he had to work on himself because I really didn't like him anymore. I also told him that by doing this, I could let go of all of the baggage from the past. Of course I cannot forget the past, but even after I had forgiven him of everything it still hurt a lot. I actually was able to let it go and it is not an issue but I will never put up with it again. I don't think I am better than anyone else or know everything but I know myself and I know what I am willing to accept from someone or not accept. That is my choice that I have made for myself.

Well, I have to get ready for work. Hope any of this helps. I don't mean to sound condeming, but at this stage it time to pull out of excuse making, rationalizing and get to the root of everything. i would not want to get back into a relationship without knowing I really knew myself and was confident that I could handle it, which ever way it went or turned our. If I had felt insecure and dependent and took my H back and it didn't work, where would it have left me? Back at square one starting the misery all over again. I don't forsee it "not working" at this point, but I will be ok not matter what happens!

Have a good day,
Later,
Free

jkotz,

First welcome - I'm both glad and sad you are here. Make sure you read through the materials on the site and make sure you spend time posting your questions and commments... The more you put into the site, the more you will get out of it.

First thing - You can't solve this in a week/month/year - There is no time frame on something like this, just know that you are in for a long journey and what you do along the way, will directly effect your outcome with your marriage. But you need to TAKE YOUR TIME - there is no need for ultimatums or quick fixes.

It sounds like you have a LOT of work to do on yourself, AND you are taking the first step by going to counseling. That is GREAT NEWS! Great news. You need to change the focus to yourself for a while. You need to start bettering yourself first and foremost, NOT just so your wife can see the changes, but rather you need to do them for yourself. Believe me, once you are able to implement changes - sincere longlasting changes - your wife will take notice. I suggest not including her at all in this. She needs to see that you are changing for yourself and not as some last ditch effort to save your marriage. AND she will be watching you like a hawk, so know that one minor slip-up will end up costing you a lot with her.

Focus on fixing your marriage by focusing on fixing yourself for now. If you can convince your wife to stay with you for now, great. If not, let her go. You need to lift all the pressure on her and your relationship at the present time. The more pressure you put on her, the further you will drive her away. Realize that this has all been building in her for years - now she is at a breaking point. And I'll be honest, you may not be able to save the marriage - she may be too far gone. But just know that there is ALWAYS hope.

If you don't have faith in your life, now is a great time to build a relationship with God. If you do have faith in your life, maybe you need to work on solidifying your friendship with Him...

Any thoughts or questions you have, definitely post them here! There are a lot of good people (and wise people) that visit here on a daily basis...

God Bless,
Mike

Gregg,

I kinda, sorta agree with Free's latest post. Only this is coming from a guy who a few years ago, wasn't able to "let go" and I now see how it put the final nail in the coffin of my marriage (But I also know that even if I did do things differently, the outcome might have still been the same...). I'm just saying that I now can look back and realize the damage I did to an already bad situation by "wanting to talk", by making the sad comments, by having the sad conversations, by holding on too tightly... It is as clear as day to me "NOW", but back then even as many people on this site told me the same things, I chose to NOT listen to them and do my own thing.

A great song to think about is 38 Special's "Hold on Loosely"... It actually in some ways helped me during the separation - "hold on loosely but don't let go, if you cling too tightly, you're gonna lose control"....

It sounds like you "gave this all to God" a while back, but now you are itchin' to "take it back from Him"... And that is totally normal - That is unfortunately what most people want to do. BUT what He wants of us is to "give it to Him" and "leave it to His work". You HAVE to have faith and just trust in His ways. The more you take it all back from Him, the more damage you will be doing to yourself, to your wife, to your marriage, and to your relationship with God.

Listen, I'm back in a similar situation again. All the human, male, fix-it-now thoughts are swirling around in my head... For a good part of each day. Often it takes everything I have to fight off giving in to the thoughts, and "calling" or "emailing" or "sending a card"... BECAUSE I know, I hear, God speaking to my heart, telling me to patiently persevere, that it will be what it is, all in HIS time. During the times I feel so sad and alone and I feel myself reaching for the phone, I say a prayer for strength.... and it works.

Your wife KNOWS how much you love her - she does. But it doesn't have anything to do with that right now. Right now her spirit is 100% closed down to you. Ever see those little bugs that live under rocks? I used to call them rolly-polies when I was little... The ones that when you touch them, they quickly rollup tightly into a ball? That is your wife's spirit right now. It is tightly sealed and NONE of your comments will help open her back up.

Only three things that will enable her to open back up: time, God and love. Like Free said, your wife has to "choose" to want to try again. It is her choice and nothing you can do can influence that choice - It is her free will given to her by God. You can't ask Him to change her heart, for that will go against His gift of free will. But you can pray for Him to soften her heart, to begin to see the changes that are occuring in you.

The more you talk about your marriage to her, the longer her spirit will remain closed. Think of it this way, each 5 minute conversation about your marriage may equal one month of her keeping you out... So in a period of a week if you slip and talk to her about "things" a half dozen times, that is 6 more months she will remain closed to you... Then as more time goes by you slip up more and more, soon the time it takes her may turn into years...

You need to fight your 'human male nature' to want to "fix it" now. To think you have the "right" conversation or words to say to finally get her to open up... You don't. I don't... No one does. The quicker you truly come to grips with that, the faster you will get your marriage on the right track... If this was a logical problem, then words or actions could solve it quickly, but it is NOT. It is a matter of the heart, and the heart is not easily influenced by words...

And finally, even if after focusing on you and bettering yourself, your marriage (God forbid) still doesn't survive, I can PERSONALLY attest to the fact that you will be SUCH a stronger and better person for the time you invested in yourself. I know it isn't much consolation because I remember others telling me the same things, but I can now tell you 100% that it is so true...

For me, I just waited too long to truly let-go... By the time I did, the damage was done. You on the other hand are in the position to change now when things are in the early stages...

Just be strong and fight the negative thoughts at ALL times... As time goes by it will get easier to do...

Finally, one thing I was a little nervous about when I was going through it was that by "letting my W go", I'd lose my love for her. That wasn't the case. All through the separation (once I did let go) and divorce, while I let go of all ties, the love I had for her still remained. It was only after the divorce that the love for her "changed" from a romantic love to a friendship type of feeling... But while we were still "married" I had succeeded in letting her go AND still loving her...

BE STRONG!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
If you want to "talk" to your wife, turn on the computer and write to us here instead! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,
Mike

<small>[ June 25, 2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: SoTired2000 ]</small>

So the feeling I am getting from all these trains of thought is that I should not talk with her, especially about my feelings, thoughts and the marriage. Is this right?

Everyday she writes or calls and asks how I am doing. She says she does not need to "no-communication", but I believe I do. Everytime I get a email or phone call from her I jump through the roof. I have such anxiety about getting hurt again.

You are right. That want to talk to her, tell her your love, tell her your sorrow is overwelming. Are all those best saved for counseling?

sam_teddie,

If you both are going to counseling together, then "yes" definitely save those comments for your sessions.

When asked how you are doing, there is no need to go too deep with your feelings - maybe a simple, "I'm doing well."

Then at the end of the call, maybe add a quick "I saw x,y & z today and thought of you" or "This morning I was driving and I thought of that time we did blah, blah, blah"... But don't go into details... This way it will let her know in a very round-about way that you still are thinking about her... Then be quick to end the call so she doesn't think you are trying to start a conversation about the "way things used to be"...

just a thought...

Mike