My GF is pregnant.. She's like 5 weeks. She is not really hip on an abortion, but I am okay with it.

As you can imagine we have been having some not so fun "gut check" conversations.

I feel like I should do the right thing and marry her, but at the same time without this event I wouldn't at this time. I just feel like a marriage under that premise would likely spell eventual doom. I mean marriages are hard enough without the parties maybe feeling like "Hey you did this to me (pregnancy)" or "You backed me into a corner what was I supposed to do (marriage)"...

She's feeling like we're in a relationship anyway and we had talks of eventually being married. I obviously have not been able to click that far over yet otherwise we'd be at least engaged by now.... And my attitude is that it takes a massive sacrifice and tons of work to raise a kid..Her thoughts on that are you can never plan it out fully and we/she'll figure it out.

Right now we are both feeling like this presents a lose - lose situation.

Any advice?

Jack, well we all know that pregnancy means a soul conceived, and abortion is not the answer. Why would you just end a babies life, that this baby had no choice in. I would if I were you, not marry the woman. But I would talk about adoption. PUtting the baby up for adoption, and then you two could continue on dating if it was your choice, and marry if that was your choice. You seem very unsure of marrying here right now. You could also look at that ? of why. Something is telling you to hold off. Or you are just scared of the committment.

If it is helpful to hear, I would suggest counseling. This is a good time to start. Cause she is going to have mood swings, body starting to change, and then of course the birth of the baby, is going to be painful for the mother.

This is difficult, but with counseling and the guidance of a 3rd party, I think you two will make the right decision. If marriage is the answer, then it is the right answer. Good luck

Hi there Jack!!
I actually missed you when you left us..
but whats so funny about this is the other one got married..and then your left the boards..

I figured you learned your lesson in love..
do you realize that is the length of time you were gone was 5 weeks..so it happened after you
had already to call it quits on both of them.

So it was NOT an accident, because you knew you
could get her pregnant..why didn't you use protection?

she didn't trick you..you still were playing games and see what it got you??

now what? your not actually considering abortion are you...?? I have something for you to look at if thats your plan and she also would need to look..so let me know what your plans are..

I cannot believe you didn't leave her. We all figured you got out and left and was off on an adventure someplace at least I thought you had sense enough...

when you found out the other love of your life was getting married..did you decide this gal was ok after all and now she is pregnant so you want to ditch her..boy the people here will believe this..I for one..really believed you would go and not hurt her anymore..geeezzz..well I got to find something for you be back when I find it..it this is not going to be pleasant..but pictures sometimes speak louder then words..

I am sure you do know that when you have sex..make love..there is a chance it might produce a child..or did you sleep through sex ed??
argggghhhh.....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Note: I removed the link. If you want it then ask for it..it is true pictures and not pleasant to look at..

Anyone planning or knowing someone considering abortion please have them look at this...

I am sure that if you check this information out
you will reconsider an abortion it will show you how real a lil baby is tucked safely inside mom..for safe keeping..it is a miracle from God
not garbage..please think and pray before you take it's life...only God has the right to give life and take it..so have a look at this..and let me know what you think..
what your plans are..after this information...
Warning this is not for the fainthearted..
but also it is not for babies either... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ July 09, 2003, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: SadEyes ]</small>

"Jack, well we all know that pregnancy means a soul conceived, and abortion is not the answer. Why would you just end a babies life, that this baby had no choice in."

Um, no, this is actually not something we all "know". In fact, there is some serious debate over this issue so it's obviously not black and white.

Jack says in his post that he is OK with abortion. So...maybe the posters can try to focus on his question and not judge his beliefs?

Jack, how long have you been with this woman? How old are you both? Either have kids? previous marriages? Good jobs? Basically, besides being not ready to marry, how ready are the two of you to be parents???

oh Piggle
check on his lil sunglasses then go look at his
posts from before I know Jack, that is why I am talking to him like I am..we all know Jack.
if you go read posts from the past you will see what this is all about..

he is either a troll or he will cause a lot of tramma for a lot of people...

he didn't have any plans on marrying her 5 weeks ago.he had made up his mind to leave her for his first girlfriend..but she was going to marry someone else so things sorta blew up in his face..and so I guess he went back to this poor women that he had nothing good to say about, she has a low IQ and was not good enough..before..so that s part of it..go read ok..so you won't get so stressed out. we spent an inordinate amount of time with him before....he is a player...
I feel bad for her...take care...please pray..that he has no control over the decision she makes for the baby..she is a good person..and loved him.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Jack read about abortion. So you played her, and got her pregnant. She has a low IQ, you used her for pleasure, and now an unborn baby has been created. An abortion is not right. For the baby and her ability to succeed in life. Adoption is the best outcome. The baby will have two parents that love him/she, and will have a family. You obviously can't decide who you want, and now that you created a baby, you want to kill it. Not according to Gods beliefs. I am not happy with what you did, and I think you should owe up to your lust and put the baby up for adoption. It would be loved, cared for, properly educated, and given a life that you or her obviously could not give.

Sad eyes - thanks for the heads up....I just hate to see people preached at and given only the options that the poster agrees with...when it's clear that Jack has no probs with abortion. Seems the focus has been on convincing him how wrong abortion is, when it's clear that Jack's own behaviors are what is wrong, and the outcome is really up to Jack's GF, whether we agree with her choice or not.

In an unexpected twist after I told her I'd support her either way she has decided to get the abortion. Surprisingly I am not 100% pleased with the decision because I feel as if this could mean doom for us and now I re-reflect on who she is and she would be an excellent wife and is a good person. So wierd. However, watching a dating TV show last night I saw the 2 of them readily discussing politics and other affairs like high finance, etc..and that sounded fun. What the hell is wrong with me. When oh when will I figure out what I need???? When (if ever) will it feel right?

TIME OUT!!! Jack 72 is NOT a player. In fact those who know me in real life would say that I am one of the most genuine and caring human beings alive. I continually sacrifice for others - it is who I am. Jack 72 IS however quite confused and longing for the "feeling of wanting to be compelled to marry someone". I have NOT been purposely playing anyone. I HAVE been confused and lacking in self-confidence. Meaning my last relationship where I was engaged and lived with the girlfor 3.5 years ws so traumatic when it ended that I have felt forever scarred. The dark cloud over my world still has not vanished since she left. I have worked hard through talking with people here, reading books, talking with others, going to a counselor etc to try and figure it all out. Best I can come up with is: I have been trying to decide between if the current GF is right OR if I am just simply screwed up in my feelings. Meaning I do not want to make the mistake of letting this great girl go if it is simply I need more work. I am unclear if it is our relationship, her or me that is not "right". So until I figure it out I have been buying time while working on figuring it out. OR I am simply just not brave at all and cannot deal with the thought of not having the current GF. I feel like I am sort of damned if I do and damned if I don't. Labeling me as "player" or any other condesending term is simply false and I am very sorry that I have left that impression. Confused, selfish on occasion, unclear, kind, communicative, hardworking, seeking answers, etc..those are words that can describe me.

AND..on the Abortion issue... NOT everyone knows.. It is NOT black and white.. I mean DUH... Roe vs.Wade vs Christian Coalition Wing vs Liberals vs Republican right wing.. I mean come on. Their is controversery here no doubt. I just happen to be pro choice. And I would argue that anyone's daughter who ended up pregnant by some psycho serial child molester would not expect her to carry it to term.. WICKED!! Can you imagine ..how could she love it (would she).. what would it turn into..etc.etc.. I think until anything really hits home like personally you or someone you are very-very close to opinions are skewed. Anyway, enough on that topic.. And while I did not open your attachement I can only guess that it is a discusting picture of a late-term abortion being thrown out there to coerce me into a decsion you would see fit. Conversley I could easily find a picture of a 5week old pre-embryo that would look like and be the size of a small grape. Again all open to interpretation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In an unexpected twist after I told her I'd support her either way she has decided to get the abortion. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lets look at it from her point of view.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's feeling like we're in a relationship anyway and we had talks of eventually being married. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, you have had talks about getting married, that means an awful lot about seriousness and commitment.

Second, you have been sexual, and that also means alot about seriousness and commitment.

Third, now you are pregnant, and Jack wavers, and does not follow through on talks about marriage, does not propose, is very wishy washy about responsibility, regardless of how you think others feel/think about you, your actions right now say volumes about you Jack.

Here is my interpretation from her point of view:

You talked the talk, but did not walk the walk when the pressure was on. You are willing to enjoy the momentary pleasure of unprotected sex, yet you do not actively seek the responsibility. You do not take a stand, and you are not a leader when a situation becomes difficult that you created. Therefore, i would not want you as a husband or a father, and i will get an abortion and kiss your a$$ goodbye.

and who cares what other people say about you, with me, you are irresponsible with words and actions.

sorry Jack... from your description of the situation, your actions come through loud and clear.

wiftty

still stand on what I said last time you were here..JACK DOES NOT KNOW JACK.
I think it's time to grow up now..

but probably she is better off without you,
I think we all helped you come to that conclusion last time you were here.running off after the other one to have a door slammed in your face..
so you went back to the one with the low IQ
who is good enough to...do the deed with..but not good enough to marry..

Well I hope something happens to shake your world she is too good for you.

as far as the pictures.there are all sorts of pictures a baby with fingers toes..as lil as 8 weeks..it is the size of one I lost in a miscarriage to see it broke my heart..then there are others.yes gruesome but shows how they are ripped apart in the womb this has nothing to do with roe thing but has to do to show you..it is musrder and your not a killer rapist and she has not been brutally attacked..your sorta normal and she can give it up rather then kill it..
but like all other things people would rather hide there mistakes or get rid of them, but when God gives life a miracle and others want children and you would toss it aside like a piece of garbage..God will judge it..I am not judging you other then showing you, they are REAL BABIES..and they have feelings.if you don't want to see..then stick your head in the sand.and go ahead kill it and live with it..I think its sick for people to help do these things they are doing satans bidding.

last time we talked you were on the right track..what happend? your chance for happiness..
your lust got the best of you..

do you have a good job?
how do you feel about her now?

is it your afraid to make a commitment?
or is it just you don't want it to be to her?

time to get honest Jack..does she know how you feel right now?? or are you here behind her back.
please go talk to a minister about this..do not
I plead with you in the name of Jesus..do not kill..this baby..

yes it is her choice too but..I think from what you said before she was not into that..
besides it can cause complications for her..she might not ever conceive again..something could go wrong..go look at that link that is there..people have died having legal abortions things go wrong..

hey also this is a law man made..Gods law always said it was wrong.
there are always people willing to take the baby even if it is handicapped..

gosh I am getting older and sick and actually
I am dying..with heart disease and on oxygen..so do you think someone should come in and take my
life?? because I can't funtion like I use to?
thats sad but that is how things are going to get further down the line..things are so screwed up.

they just married two homosexuals in Canada..that law will be in the states soon..and that makes me sick..and it is because people are so indifferent to the truth and have no intestinal fortitude to stand up and take a stand against the evil in the world..

IF you abort the baby..or she does..then you willingly commit murder..even it it is legal..
IT IS STILL MURDER...no matter what you say.

let her have it alone then..I imagine she is threatning abortion or suicide..to see what you will do..but she probably believed your lies..

I believed my husbands lies..too..
so I think that maybe she is better off without you, you would end up being a dead beat dad..

others here see what you did before..you waffle..
you have no...integrity...
by the way try to find a promise keepers meeting and go to one...and you will be a new man..they will mentor you...help you make decisions.
there is right and there is wrong..black and white
yes or no..good and evil..take your pick..

but then there is also in the end..
HEAVEN OR HELL...
so where will you end up..Have mercy on your soul and hers..if you do this dastardly deed..
I am going to remove the link only because I put it there for you..taking it down now...
and will be praying for you..
please pray about this..seek God and ask Him what to do.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
next JAck will enter stage right...and proclaim..
she is not pregnant after all..she was just late..

you mentioned about abortion and someone attacked..she was not attacked by a crazed person..she was had by you..with lies and deceit.
fraud.

other people are responsible for thier decisions..this one is your choice..and you will have to live with it..and I hear women who have abortions do not do fare well later on in life because of what they see..and have to go through and after wards they feel guilt..I know a couple who have done it and will never forgive themself.it causes nightmares and other things to them..mostly they feel like murderesses every time the abortion topic is brought up..they cannot stand it..they have some of them gone to the brink of suicide..

so maybe if you even think you love her or care at all you will try to talk her out of it..so she keeps her sanity but I have done all I Can..the blood is not on my hands..
God help you both..as satan sits in wait for the next soul..wringing his hands just waiting for the deed to be done..oh how it pleases him..and God is sitting there he could strike you dead but HE loves you and lets you make all your own decisions...whether right or wrong...in the long run..heaven or hell...what did Jack do with Jesus..did he laugh in His face..or think it was just a fairy tale?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I had to edit.

<small>[ July 09, 2003, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: SadEyes ]</small>

"they just married two homosexuals in Canada..that law will be in the states soon..and that makes me sick..and it is because people are so indifferent to the truth and have no intestinal fortitude to stand up and take a stand against the evil in the world.."

I am taking my stand...what you are typing here is YOUR OPINION and nothing more. What do YOU know about homosexuality that allows you to sit in judgement? What right do you have to tell someone else what they can or cannot do? SICK??? Sick is hating and judging because you do not understand.

JACK - OK, so you are confused.....but you didn't answer any of the questions. How old are you and this girl? How long have you been together? Do you both work? Live together? Gimme some details to go on.....do you know WHY she chose an abortion? Was it, as wifty typed, perhaps because she saw your indifference?

What do you want? Just to be married for the sake of being married? Why the rush? Have you ever been alone? Being married isn't an 'accomplishment'....it's a union. Why even consider it if you don't KNOW that you want it? I waited and waited to take that step...and only agreed to take it when I was sure deep down inside that I was ready and this was the right man. I am *very* glad I waited and didn't just get married in my twenties because it seemed to be the thing to do....a lot of those folks seem to be divorcing now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Are you using birth control NOW? I would certainly suggest you at the *very* least, protect yourselves until you know what you want. While I DO believe abortion is a choice, I am not in favor of that choice and certainly feel it is your responsibility to make sure you aren't faced with that choice again.

When I find the time AND SADEYES...

All I can say is that I am not in agreement with your religious beliefs and now due to your obvious preaching and tainted point of view I really feel I have to take the advice you have given me with a grain of salt. I do think there was some very good stuff that you did say, but overall you are trying coercian techniques that I simply will not give into and I'm sorry but who are you to judge? I believe the bible preaches tolerance and being nonjudgemental yet you are doing what? Anyway, to each their own, but because they are your beliefs does not make them right. Christianity is NOT the oldest religion, Christianity is NOT the largest religion with the most followers, Christianity and other religions have been the cause of the most human deaths on this planet. Do I believe there was an ark that had 2 of every animal on it, yet they did not eat each other and a boat of such mammoth size has not been found...hmmm.. I dunno.. I believe the Bible for sure has great moral value and yes if we all paid attention to the lessons maybe the world would be better off. Taking it literally though I simply cannot do. Thankfully I do not belive like you do (meaning I am not condemnded to hell like you think).. My argument for that is a vegetarian monogomous, indian woman who only had sex for raising childern with her hsuband, but she prays to a tree in the rainforest where she lives because it gives them the fruit they need to live.. On the other hand you have a repeat child molester/murderer who violently kills kids after he has molested them.. But while in prison on death row he truly repents and is "born again"..I'm sorry but if I got to belive if their is something else out there that the vegetarian who prays to the tree is going to a better place. Enough said.. This is a Relarionship site not a Religious debate, but I felt just because you strcu first did not mean you should get the only word/opinion in.

Piggle... thank you for chiming in without judgement and having an open mind.

To answer your questions (in order):

I am 30. She is 26. Both of us will be celebrating our next birthdays in 3 months.

We have been together for 2 years.

We both work. Although mine is more of a Full-time career type of job. Hers is sort of pick up jobs here and there while she is getting ready to go back to college for her masters in counseling.

We did live together, but have lived apart for almost a year now. I moved her in very soon after my Ex-Fiancee left me. Yep bandaid, rebound..all that good stuff. That is why I had her move out. I wasn;t overly "feeling it" at the time and didn;t want to live together again before the commitment was there.

Why she chose the abortion? Well I can tell oyu it was not her first decision. First of all she has a strong christian background (although hasn;t gone to church in ages) plus she figured if we were going to be together anyway then why not just let it be. She said if she was younger and did not see us making it together that it would have been easier to choose an abortion. I think she chose because of her love for me and knowing that that is what I wanted. Also, I think she saw the indifference...Perhaps there is more to it too...

What do I want? Definitely NOT to be married for the sake of being married. Despite my mistakes and everything I belive I put a higher value on marriage than most people. I really feel like I owe it to both parties to overly qualify such a commitment. I was a previous business owner and we entertained a couple of mergers and I can tell you my opinion is that a marriage deserves even more scrutiny than a business merger because it is more important. My opinion anyway. Perhaps that is my way of shielding myself from a commitment, but honestly I feel as if my partner and I deserve the best!

Why the rush? Only reason for the rush today would be that I feel like I am being pressured by the girlfriend. Otherwise no rush. I am content just leanring more about her and myself and hopefully it will "feel right" one day. I remember when I proposed to my ex. I did it for her, but really honestly I also did it for me. At that time it was so authentic and I could not ahve been happier to be proposing. I want (and feel I deserve) to feel that way again. And my girlfriend deserves no less of a proposal.

Have I ever been alone? Prior to my ex. I always was just the 2 week dating guy. I had such a strict criteria that noone made it more than 2-3 dates with me. My sister when I was 25 had her first real boyfriend so I decided I need to learn what having a real relationship was all about. I had made it up in my mind ahead time that the next girl that came along that fit some of my criteria I would give a chance to. that was my Ex-fiancee. And I have never been the same since being with her and when she left.

I like your union idea. And perhaps that is part of my apprehnsion with my current girlfriend. With my ex I felt like I had a stronger more competent partner. Here I feel like the "man in charge". I don;t like necessarily feelign that way. I like the thought of a strong capable partner.

We will most certainly be more careful going forward. And I can assure you I do not plan on this situation arising again.

Thanks and I look forward to your feedback now that I have answered your questions. I agree very much with what you said about marriage. It is good to be reminded that that is an okay (right) way to feel. Especially coming from the opposite sex. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thanks again.

Jack - OK, well, I have to say it appears you are old enough to know better so I *really* hope you guys are much more careful in the future. It does sound like current g/f is more of a rebound kind of thing. You sound like you are enjoying yourself, but not like you see her as a life partner. That is OK....as long as she knows. At 26, she might well be LOOKING for a life partner and think you are it. If you aren't feeling that right now, you have to tell her and let her decide if she wants to continue 'casually dating'.

Is she on the pill? I guess I am asking that because I have known women that have been dating for awhile (like you two) who really wanted to move things along....and so they were less than careful. We both know this is totally wrong, but it does happen. So, either way, sounds like your g/f is much more into this relationship with you than you are...and needs to know where you stand.

I can't really comment much on her decision as it seems she has already made it. I imagine it's more difficult for her if she has feelings for you and considering you are both working adults that could afford the expenses of having a child. Hopefully, your reaction spoke volumes to her re: how you see the relationship.

Best of luck, Jack <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jack72:
<strong>I think she chose because of her love for me and knowing that that is what I wanted.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where is the VOMIT icon when you need it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Well, Jack

I guess you do not read very carefully. Your response to Me and SadEyes referenced biblical or religious concepts.

However, I did not ever mention any religious concepts, nor am i religious, pure atheist.

So, again, since you are not responding appropriately, and since you refuse to have an opinion other than your own, which may be a judgement. . . you know, opinions are judgements, and you can't get through life without running up against them or using them. . .

however, if you just look for people to support your actions, or to just make you feel better, you need to start working hard on learning how to do the hard work of life, being responsible. . .

you can make any decisions you want, just be sure your accept the responsibility for the fall out. . . whatever that might be.

wiftty

RBC ministries

you mentioned a women praying to a tree..
the tree gives her fruit,for food..
she has not heard about God..so she has not been
able to make a decision whether he exists or not,
so God will judge her on that,

there is a difference between stupid and ignorance...she is ignorant not having the gospel preached to her..

you have heard and you choose to ignore the fact that
he exists or pretends he does not..but you have heard so you reject it..will be judged on that

the man in prison..did comit murder..then heard the word..and repented of his sin..of murder and other deeds..and will not choose to do them again..He accepted the fact Jesus died for his sins...so yes he is forgiven..

now to you Jack so you do not remain ignorant of the facts you think are true..the ark and other things..check out this site to enlighten yourself so you won't remain ignorant any longer..because the ark has been found..what planet are you living on..check it out..

I hope you get your life together..the one thing your missing in life and are searching for is probably..GOD..hopefully you will not continue to reject Him He can fill the whole in your heart..
He also will forgive you..if you ask..
so Keep on Keeping on..the road you choose is your choice..each will have to stand before God some day..and I hope your standing for HIM and not against Him..because if your not for Him then you are against Him no in between no lukewarmness like with your women..
EarthAngel.
I won't bother you any more..
I am shaking the dust off...here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ July 10, 2003, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: SadEyes ]</small>