Hi all, it's been a while since I visited marriage builders.

H is WS, had some inappropriate relationships when I was pregnant in early 2001. then started again when I was pregnant in late 2002. I told him he could not continue to live me with me if he wouldnt' change his behavior. SO he left. I was 7 months pregnant.

we have been living apart for over 7 months now. I filed for divorce in Feb (mainly for financial reasons, I needed temporary orders in place to get child support) as H was on a crazy spending spree and didn't care one iota about me for a few months.

I sent an email to him and his family telling them I did NOT want a divorce at all, but that I have to file because I need to protect myself financially. (this was the day after H drained our joint bank account).

Well months have come and gone. I wanted my H to come home to work on the marraige. I had my daughter in late march (our second kid). In April I started to come out of the desperation and depression. By May I was back at work and have gotten myself together. I'm good at caring for two kids by myself (one is 2.5 years old and the other is 4 months old). I've been feeling pretty good.

Well our divorce is suppose to be final NEXT week... and what happens? H called me the other night saying he loves me, he misses me, can I ever forgive him, can I please TRY to rebuild our marriage...

well I would have LOVED this call MONTHS ago.... but I'm starting to think this is coming a little too late.

I want to know... for those of you who've divoced... is this a COMMON reaction as the final date gets closer?

<small>[ August 05, 2003, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: so hurt ]</small>

Definitly a common thing to happen, they don't want to lose you, but they don't want you either. You are doing much better now and even though it's tough and sometimes really sucks to be a single mom, it's worth it....more than being with someone who isn't going to treat you the way you deserve....if you are left questioning, than turn to God and turn to yourself and evaluate everything...big hugs and smiles your way....by the way, it is easy to get back together, I did 2, but nothing changes and it makes it worse on the children.

so hurt
whatever you decide to do, is your *choice*
i'll give my opinion,, i think you owe it to your H, and children, to allow H to come back.
It is *NEVER* too late!!!! If one believes its to late, its simply the *choice* made.
There are so many resources available,,,
You should STOP the divorce, become less selfish, and put your first and foremost priorities into your family, and *marriage.*
*common reaction* who should this be compared to, or with?
Do a search on the impact a D has in children. Spend some time learning,,, and to think, if you were to *allow* the *choice* to stay married, think about the message you are *giving* your children.

Is this what you really, truly want for your children? Deprive them of the true family?
I'd call your H asap, tell him you forgive and forget, and to get home.
There are several, and i do mean several marriages that require a break,,, if you can acquire an open mind, you and your H can become ever so close, from all of this.

Regarding to your cheating husband,,,,
maybe the both of you can sit down, discuss your personal individual needs, and in the order they are important to you. i'm not placing any blame on you sohurt,,, i'am totally against any A.

Rainefall mentioned turn to God. God HATES divorce!!!
Satan lurks around corners constantly searching for another to devour. Will you allow satan to do his work?
Being a single mom is worth it!?

So hurt, i sincerely hope and pray, that you in turn can pray for yourself, and allow your family,, the way *God* wants, and not what you want,,,

"Do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded."
Hebrews 10:35

gosh Stephan, that's a strong message. I don't know if you realize the repeated lies and betrayal i've been dealing with. AFTER over a year in marriage counseling...

I went back to our marriage counselor today (alone) to get her professional opinion.

In a nutshell, she says I should not take H back unless he agrees to get a full psychological evaluation to figure out why he's having trouble functioning in all areas of his life (marriage, job, finances, kids). She said he'd have to agree to counseling for whatever his problems are, AND he's have to operate as a "normal" person for a while before I should take him back.

My H has done some really really disrespectful things.

May i ask you, where are you with God?
With all the lies from your husband,,, are you capable of forgiving? Forgetting and forgiving?
How many times should we forgive??
You mention your MC, what are her personal beliefs? What are God's beliefs? Who are we suppose to listen to? Advice from the flesh, in the worlds beliefs? Or, Gods?
God does say seek and you shall find, ask and you shall recieve. God will never forsake us.

Regarding the lies,,, it is possible i may be quite familiar with a lot of lies. As a matter of fact, the last time i heard from my W, lies were included. Maybe i should ask myself who am i to judge!? Disrespectful things? To this day mt W refuses any affair,, is this disrespectful? Is this again, more lies? Really, i think thats between her and Jesus,,, this doesn't mean i accept them. I'm just saying i refuse to judge, and hold her accountable for her actions. This is Gods decision, not mine.
I have been accuse of a lot, from my wife!!! Including sexually violationg her. The emotional turmoil involved,,,, should i hold her accountable, and allow myself to think *abuse,* who am I?

Lets reflect back to your wedding vows. Can you remember the promises made, the commitment, and who was these to? Was God your witness?
For richer and for poorer, thru *SICKNESS* and in *HEALTH* 'til death do us part.

Is it possible you are seeking advice from an improper source? Maybe your husband and yourself can seek advice from our true counselor. The one who will never mislead any of us.
When was the last time you were in church? Maybe its time to seek advice from the bible. God says "guard your heart." Don't guard it from love, but you need to guard it from advice.

*Its never too late*

May each sinner turn from their wrongful
ways. The unrepentant person can be sorry for the consequences of
their sin. Yet, they are not sorry enough to change their actions,
regardless of how many people that they may be hurting. The repentant
person, has a genuine sorrow for their sins that have done or are
doing and has a change of heart that causes them to turn from sin to
God.

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will
remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees
and be careful to keep my laws." Ezekiel 36:26-27

I'm praying that you both can and will stop being selfish, come to the reality of what our God wants and his needs from each and everyone of us, not what our worldly needs are,,,that (especially your husband) that you can start on the way to the reconciliation,,,

My wife left in Feb. i still pray she returns, i keep on forgiving, and still loving!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

With God, all things are possible.

<small>[ August 06, 2003, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Good Morning Stephan.

Yes we have a christian counselor... and she still says she thinks in almost all cases a marriage should be saved. But not the extend that the other person has to be abused (emotionally).

here's my conversation with my STBX:

I just got off the phone with H. here's a run down of the conversation.

he asked how my appt with today. I told him it was good it helped me understand what I need. I said there are things I'd need him to do to even CONSIDER working on the marriage, and I don't know if he's wiling to do them. I said it's fine if he doesn't want to do them, but I could never feel good about our relationship or myself if he can't agree to do these things.

I said it seems to me that he's made some really self destructive decisions over the last several months. And granted when people are unhappy they often make bad choices, but nothing like he's done. he's failing in all areas of his life. He's in big trouble at work, he can't pay his bills, our marriage is a mess, he forgot the kids the other day.... he needs to figure out why he does this to himself. I said the things that are happening now are all a direct result of self destructive choices... And these consequences weren't hard to predict. Its NOT like he's cursed or freak things have happen, he made these things happen with his own choices. I said I know he doesn't want his life to be this way and its got to be miserable (he was crying by now). he needs help to figure out how he could do this to himself (and his family). I said even if it isn't for the sake of the marriage, he needs to do it for himself. Because I know he isn't a *bad* person. in fact he has a lot of good qualities. I reminded him that he had one other serious girlfriend before me, and I know he cheated on her too. I asked if he ever thought it was weird that the two people who he claims he really did care about, he destroyed those relationships? I told him he needs to get to a professional, and have them figure out why he does these things and help him teach him how NOT to do it anymore.

I asked him if everything was going well in life would he still want to come back. he was crying and "I don't know" then "I think so" then "I don’t know". I said, see that's what scares me, I'd like to think he cares for me and wants his marriage but we have NO WAY OF KNOWING with the way things are right now. I told him his sister even warned me about taking him back when things were down. I told him regardless of everything that's happened I still really have strong feelings for him, but I can't see how just taking him back without him looking at how he got to where he is. Then he said something like he'd want to come back if I've changed. I said what about you? he started joking and trying use humor here and said "why would I change everything is going great for me" I laughed but it really wasn't funny. it was so true and he knew it.

I told him that a small part of me just wants to take him back, save my marriage, save my "family" unit. But I KNOW I can't do that. Not with the way things are. Not with out him learning about himself. Because it'll just happen again.

I was really nice to him during this call. I never said he was bad or evil or anything like that, but I made it very clear that he's done things NORMAL PEOPLE DON'T DO.. and all he needs to do is look at where he's at now to figure that out. He needs to figure out why/how he could have done these things with the help of a professional.

I asked when he went to a counselor last. He said three weeks ago. I asked what they said. He said "all that fluff". I said "what fluff?". he said "all the normal stuff". I didn't ask more.

He was really sad by the end of this call. I didn't ask if he would get help or not. the call ended by him saying he needed to go to bed. He sounded VERY sad.

BTW Stephen I appreciate your responses. I Guess I probably need to clarify some of the stuff my STBX has done:

Right before he left me he spent every cent in our bank account. Leaving me 7 months pregnant with a 2 year old and NO WAY to buy food. All of the credit cards were maxed out, the overdraft protection was maxed. EVERYTHING was gone. I had to go raid my 2 year olds bank account, which only had like 80 dollars in it, to last until my next paycheck.

He was spending most of free time with a 12 year old boy before he left. Playing video games. He wasn't working at all. Yes, a 33 year old man who did everything with an unrelated 12 year old. THey'd go to walmart, buy paint gun, buy video games. This is what he spent out money on.

He worked out of the house and he as bragging that he wasn't going to do any work for as long as he could. NOw he's all sad that he is in troulbe at work and doesn't think its fair.

One day a few months before he left he drove 10 hours (one way) out of the blue and picked up 2 big hunting dogs because he saw them on a web page, that they were going to put down in a few days. OF course he neglected his job that day. These two dogs were not potty trained, we do not have a big yard. They were knocking over our 2 year old son... and he insisted I was mean because I didn't want to "save" these dogs.

these are just a few of the implusive/odd things he's done between July and Dec of last year. (the 6 months before he left me)

So hurt,, Good evening, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
What does *God* say about ALL marriages? Who are we to question him? I quite often hear the exact same thing, *there are exemptions,* *with your case,* *its different,* SOrry, this is still worldly advice. If we seek *Gods* advice, he will never say, its different in your,,blah blah blah.

If your christian counselor wants to play God, and or question God,, this is her choice. I'll politely say I don't agree. But, who am I? Do you understand? I'am no licensed therapist, or counselor. Nor am i God.

Is it possible your husband is angry?
The reason i ask is cuz the feeling of anger includes a sense of pressure to do something, somewhat analogous to the internal pressures we experience when sexually aroused. And, as with sexual arousal, the tension tends to persist until after the *consummatory act* that reliefs it.
*As distress mounts in a marriage, the twists and turns in a couple's thinking begin to spread. Where previously a husband may have become angry over his wife's interruptions or reproaches, he now reacts with irritation or even fury to almost anythying she does. He shows the same negative, black and white thinking,,, (tunnel vision)

(You said) *I asked if he ever thought it was weird that the two people who he claims he really did care about, he destroyed those relationships*
Blaming, and accusing, including threatening, and leaving ultamatums,,, hearing something like this, especially under the circumstances your experiencing, he now sees you as the enemy, with yet one more attack. (accusing, blaming)

*I said it seems to me that he's made some really self destructive decisions over the last several months* (maybe a little character attack) .
* I told him his sister even warned me about taking him back when things were down. *
Its these *attacks* that are not helping your husband with anything,,, so hurt, i'am not blaming you, or pointing the finger,,,
I see a lot of *negative* messages, and a lot of attacks from you. He to is just as confused as yourself.
You finally started talking about his good qualities,,,*positive*
.(YOU SAID) * I told him regardless of everything that's happened I still really have strong feelings for him,(POSITIVE) but I can't see how just taking him back without him looking at how he got to where he is.(NEGATIVE) Then he said something like he'd want to come back if I've changed. I said what about you?(ATTACK) he started joking and trying use humor here and said "why would I change everything is going great for me" (HE WANTED TO HURT YOU BACK) I laughed but it really wasn't funny.,,,,,,,
(YOU SAID) I was really nice to him during this call. Yes and no!!! I seen several attacks,,,
He sounded sad!!! I as well did, while reading, and listening. Can i ask you, are you placing all blame, and accusing only him???

NORMAL PEOPLE,,, right now can you, or do you consider yourself normal? Your H is very confused. Normal, no, he is not normal. You can truly start by helping him, you are his wife!!!
Tell him *YOUR* needs, what exactly you want him to do, what you need him to do. WITHOUT adding that if you really don't want to its ok,,,tell him you love him,,, but don't say anything about the OP. Mentioning her can and will only be considered as another attack, from you.
Give him positive!!! But first, maybe you can focus on you, and your thoughts along with the mixed messages you are giving him. The attacks probably should really stop. Now ask yourself, was that your true intention?(attacks) Did he know your true intentions? Can you see as to why these can and are considered attacks?
Normal!?
Has your husband been with you to any of the sessions with this christian individual? If it was me, i would more than likely be searching for somebody else. This is just my opinion though.:-)

Do you think its possible that he sensed some rejection on your behalf? (still thinking normal people) We are no longer considered normal under the distress associated with any relationship problems. Do you truly understand everything associated with rejection, resulting in frustrating, resulting in anger,,, the end results, hurt again. Normal, oh yes its so normal, at the same time its just the same, not normal.
You can start the changes in your H, simply by changing you,, hmmm(me change) yes this to is a *normal* denial. Lead by example, be the person he wants, and needs. Right now he thinks *his needs* are being met with OP. His needs are also being fulfilled, by OP. Try listening to him the next time he says something about *you* changing, try asking as far as what, or how, and what does *he* need in a change of the *you.*

Being in love is a choice, we have more power to make that choice if we root ourself in the present. If one gives with an open heart, and he or she gives to you, it won't be difficult to fall back in love-
feelings of love or in love fluctuate in all relationships, just l;ike our weather. They come and they go. A mariage that lasts over time is dependent upon loving, not necassarily being *in love*
The same choice to hate, and or resent, primarily is due because one focuses on just the negative.

*with God, all things are possible*

So Hurt---you sound like you have godly counsel and a wise counselor. You need to establish boundaries and cannot enable your WH to continue to think he can live anyway he chooses at the detriment of his family.

Marriage Builders is all about rebuilding marriages but even Dr Harley is wise in counseling some to face the reality of divorce. In my case my H, too, said he wanted to work on things but only "said" that for a week and then was back to the "I don't know if I want to be married" "I don't know what I want". My H's alcohol problem short circuits his ability for him to get in touch with his feelings and to understand his self-destructing patterns. So I feel God gave me guidance and wisdom and strength in making the hardest decision of my life. I left my H cause he is so unhealthy and will not get help. I am so blessed, lonely, but blessed now. I am doing great financially, have a future and a hope and God speaks to my lonely heart each day that he will never leave me or forsake me...

You were very gracious and caring in what you told your H. He is not bad....he is sick and may need some extensive couseling if he is willing.

Keep learning what you need to do to gow, to understand your needs as a wife, and to understand the type of relationship you and your H need to have.

TW

so hurt, I think you are behaving in a responsible manner. Taking a dysfunctional spouse back without conditions is simply enabling them, and joining them in a destructive co-dependentcy. As for stephen, no offense, but your comments are pretty much incomprehensible, and of no discernible use in decideing healthy courses of action, and that is what people like so hurt need. I also found your introduction of sexual comments into this thread inappropriate.

Stephen, I ask that you go back and read my old posts before you make any more suggestions to me.

We were in counseling for a year and a half. weekly sessions.

My husband has been dx'd as bipolar, ADD and they want to test him for personality disorders (NPD). H fully admits "i'm not normal, I don't think like other people". are what he normally says. I used his words. Some time in Nov or Dec he decided to stop taking his meds.

My husabnd did not leave me for another woman this time, he left me for a 12 year old boy.

the week before he left he spend all of our money and put every single account in a deficet. His final purchase was a pistol.

That left me 7 months pregnant with a 2 year old to care for with NO MONEY and no food.

He stopped working for at least 2 months, and is now mad that he's on probation at work. I think he's lucky to have a job.

Please tell me how these things are normal.

<small>[ August 06, 2003, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: so hurt ]</small>

I also want to add Stephen I BEGGED him to stay and work on the marraige. All the way until about a month after I delivered, I always let him know he could come back anytime.

He never even gave me a phone number while I pregnant to let him know when i was delivering.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by so hurt:
<strong>Well our divorce is suppose to be final NEXT week... and what happens? H called me the other night saying he loves me, he misses me, can I ever forgive him, can I please TRY to rebuild our marriage...

I want to know... for those of you who've divoced... is this a COMMON reaction as the final date gets closer?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My first husband did this to me (this was many years ago). Said maybe he'd made a mistake and maybe it was his job - not his wife - that sucked. I decided to call his bluff when he said he would do anything for me, and was there anything at all that I needed? And I said "yes, I need some money." That solved the whole thing - he was not prepared to do anything that COST him anthing. It was all empty rhetoric to alleviate his own guilt.

BTW, I never heard from him again.

SO hurt,,
I do apologize to you, if a have offended you in any way. Granted, i'm no expert, especially with relationships. I have only attempted to share my thoughts or opinion. The majority of my thoughts are inclined to be more from the bible, and much less worldly. Worldly advice, is never the best advice.
*What God has joined together, let no man seperate* Mathew 19:5
The worldly advice, is divorce, seperate,,, and find someone better!?

*I hate divorce, says God of Israel, so ntake heed to your spirit* Mal 2:16

Yes we can listen to each and everyone's story, with all the similarities,,,yet each and everyone are still unique. Should we base our actions, and or end results based on anothers experience? Accepting their worldly advice? God tells us he is the wonderful and mighty counsel. (Isa 9:6)
Forgive,, i will still stick to what God says, that we shall always continue to forgive.
What exactly does marriage mean to each and everyone, i'm sure we would have various meanings. (worldly)
What does God say about marriages, (Godly) will we have a variety of his replies?

One thing i tried to explain was how our minds work under the *normal* and or *abnormal* circumstances. Hoping for you to maybe have a better understanding,,,Maybe i should have gave more info, more detailed with some examples???
Regarding Bi polar,,, i have heard this from soooo many different people refering to my wife.
I remember thinking maybe she had a borderline personality disorder. Now i know totally different.

So hurt, by no means am i defending your H actions, nor anybodies who may act like a (whatever you want to put here)
Again after reading your post and how your conversation went, i was sharing, discussing with you, how it was, could, or would be interpeted under the conditions, and or circumstances.

Regarding the 12 year old boy,, yes i read this. If i was suppose to get more out of this,, sorry. Rather i too find this strange behavior, should i judge this action? Was he up to something? Maybe he simply wanted to play the video games??

*one can never know the true thoughts, feelings and or true attitude of another,,,,* i do not have any crystal ball, nor do i have any telepathy capabalities, or esp.
I have spent endless hours bowling with children, of each gender, that i too did not know. Does this imply anything? God, i sure hope not?

Normal,, i sure hope i didn't leave you with the impression that his behavior was, or is, normal.
I was wanting to explain how our *minds* work, especially involving relationships issues.Now if we have an individual diagnosed with certain conditions,,, maybe the abnormalty, can and will increase. Or will it? Maybe in the next person, there could/would be no noticable changes, from the *normal* behaviour associated with distress pertaining to relationships problems.
How we can allow ourself to think he/she is attacking us, how we even allow certain ways, forms of negative thinking. Related to relationships,,,,
" By regarding difficulties in a marriage as a sign is *sick* *defective*, *abnormal* couples foreclose on the opportunity to help their relationship."
After reading this, do you think i'm making any excuses, or attempting to channel thoughts, defending your husband? I sure hope not.

Its quite clear that maybe your H should stick to his meds, to bad that after awhile people begin to think that they are now better, they no longer need them.

so hurt, i hope you have a better understanding, as to where i was coming from?
Regarding to any *introduction to sexual comments* this was not my intention. If i offended you in any way, you sincerely have my apologies.
I only gave a quoted explanation, with the intention of a better understanding to frustration, anger,,,again, if i offended *you* i do apologize. And to anybody else that was offended,,,,,,

Can i ask you this/ Do you already have your mind made up to divorce? What if i posted to you, saying leave the fellow? Is this what you wanted to hear?
One thing i truly find amazing, is when i searched thru the phone book, the amount of divorce attorneys available. I couldn't find any lawyer for hire, to attempt to restore,,,

It is the desire of Gods heart to reconsile all marriages "that none shall perish" (2Cor 5;18)
Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find

So hurt,, this is only my two cents worth.
I hope things do get better for you, and yours.

*All good things come from above* James 1:17

Stephan, Thanks for a little more clarification.

No, I'm not DEAD SET on divorcing him. not at all. BUT I WILL NOT become part of the craziness as I once did.

ALSO, my two year old suffered terribly last time he left. I'd rather live a lonely single life than to have my kids go through that again. I will not let them grow up thinking a man can come and go as he pleases.

Both (chrisitian) counselors I have seen say that I have been abused emotionally/psychologically. Would you recommend that a person who was physically abused jump right back into a relationship?

I totally understand your advice. I never wanted to let my marriage go. BUT now that he's been gone, of his own doing, and has completely and utterly made a mess of his life, I wonder what the correct action to do is. I hardly think takign him back and cleaning up his mistakes is the right way. I must allow him to learn from the situation he's created.

H has a long history of people bailing him out and him repeating the behavior. I will NOT be part of that.

I love him enough to want him to LEARN from his mistakes.

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: so hurt ]</small>