Are any of you friends with your ex? I don't mean friends to the point where you still hang out together socially, but I mean that if you were to run into each other, you could be friendly, and that you don't run around telling everyone what a slimeball your ex is.

I am primarily interested in answers from people without children and custody issues....you are sort of forced to be cordial in that case I assume.

If you're not exactly friends, did you and your ex leave things amicable in the end, or was it messy and angry?

I am asking because my STBX is about to receive papers from my lawyer (again) to get things rolling, and I can see him accusing me of asking for more than I deserve, etc. and ruining the fairly calm and amicable way we are able to interact now.

I know I shouldn't care about what my STBX thinks of me, or what he says to people, but I'd just rather that things ended amicably if they could.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>I know I shouldn't care about what my STBX thinks of me, or what he says to people, but I'd just rather that things ended amicably if they could.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is perfectly normal to care what your STBX thinks of you and to be concerned about what he says to people.

There is nothing of any less importance than what other people think! It is perfectly OK to care about things that aren't all that important. We do it all the time.

Jen :

I am a BS with children. For the record, I did not force myself to be cordial just for the kids sake. As in marriage, caring for each other is the priority. That means that the childrens interests are prtected too. Conversely, in a situation where D is imminient, like mine, I remain committed to taking the high road. It is what I can control. And, I will walk away with few regrets. It just seems to be a natural extension.

We deal with custodial issues better since she has realized her mistake. And, she has cut down on the alcohol. But, I still maintain the right to retain some type of peace so we can all resume our lives.

If you do not have children, at least for me, I would simply move on. There simply is no point.

I have noticed that often WS's are more concerned with being "friends" or what their ex says about them.

While we were still together I did not tell ANYONE about the things H had done. Once he decided to walk out, I no longer felt the need to protect him.

so hurt....the difference with me is that I ended my 3 week affair on d-day, and have wanted nothing but to reconcile ever since. Meanwhile, my H has spent his social time with his 2 female friends, EAs at least, and one seems to have likely gone PA too, but he won't be honest with me about that one, he reserves his right to privacy during our separation he says. I have hung on and waited and waited for my H to finally be willing to work on our marriage for 16 months now, and he's still not willing to make our marriage or me a priority in his life, so I am done being abused and I am moving on and filing for divorce.

I guess I am concerned about keeping things amicable because 1) I still love my H (and have been his best friend since we were 17 years old), so even though I know better than to wait forever for him to suddenly decide I am worthy of being treated like his wife again (after 16 months of actions that prove that I am NOT a priority in his life), I don't want us to end up hating each other after all that we shared, and 2) I love his family very much (this includes 4 grandparents, 4 BILs, 1 MIL, and even more extended family), and if things don't end amicably, it will likely put an end to my relationship with the rest of his family too.

Rather than badmouthing one's ex whenever possible (even if you view this as telling the truth, when maybe you're telling someone more than they need to know), I like Gregg's take on things, to "remain committed to taking the high road". That's the way I try to live my life. My H has treated me quite poorly in the past year, and some may say that I deserve it, but I just don't talk about my H with anyone anymore (other than my best girlfriend and my family), and if people ask about him, I usually change the subject!

JMHO,

Jen

Hi JB-

I am the x-WS with many EA's and PA's (if you want full history follow my x's thread's Free2bme). Suffice to say I was not interested in recovering my marriage until Oct '02 when she decided she no longer wanted M. As winter months past I realized the best thing I could was to focus on my healing and recovery as well as ler her be and have her space to heal and recover.

This marraige was 2nd for both with 2 boys each from our first.

We do not communicate...however, we are both in the military and I suspect at some point or another our paths will cross as she works in the HQ's building I often times have to do business in. I have absolutely no reason but to be amicable with her. Knowing her, I have to assume she too will handle the crossing amicably...I believe as time has gone by her wounds are healing (evidence can be seen by her most recent posts).

To more succinctly address your inquiry, I can't help but wonder that no matter who is served dv papers both parties are initially so negatively affected by the process. Whether it's the papers themselves or the feelings of what is about to be lost (everything!!). This causes anxiety, anger, bitterness, blame etc. etc. How we handle these feelings and process them will determine just what level of friendliness you arrive at down the road.

Just an X-WS's MHO.

BTW- I am not at all concerned about what my x has to say about my past, whatever she wishes to share is her business (besides it was probably ALL true)...and not because A's have some perverse level of acceptance by society.

Rather, it has to do with both her healing and my my recovery and healing...I share often with many about what I have done.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: catch22222 ]</small>

Well, I'm half way what you're looking for. I had a step-child in the mix, but no custody issues, as we left the kid completely out of the divorce papers.

I am still "friendly" with the XW, since I still am involved in our daughter's life, but we are not friends.

Like other WS's, she wanted very badly to remain friends, but it is very hard to be friends with someone you can't trust.

Its not an issue of bitterness or anger...I've actually come full circle on that and I agree with my XW that our marriage was doomed from day one. Yet the level of deception on her part (I quite honestly still don't know what was "true" about our relationship) automatically disqualifies her from being my friend.

Jen:

It sounds as if you are truly done. From your other posts I know that you have Plan A/B.

The one thing I realized after the smoke had cleared is that my trust level for her was gone. Nothing. Her words and actions juist did not match up. It was at this point that I had to come out of Plan B and file for divorce.

WE have spent some time together and even went out on a "date". But my goal for the "date" was to see if we could at least get back to a cordial relationship.

This was due mainly because I wanted to see if she had any committment to being a Mom for the children,

So far, she has seenn the youngest one three times in fouor weeks...w/ xtended weekend visits.

I have allowed them to see her at OM residence as well as D is imminent. But, I simply will not tolerate anymore lies. She is unaware of it..but I have gotten very good at handling evrything now and do not need her. But, the kids do.

My oldest has taken the fast track PLan B and will not even talk to her except to say Hi. Really sad. And, she has not really made any attempts to make amends with him. Really stupid.

I will have to deal with her at some level for the rest of my life because of our children. Thats fine. But, I do not have to be "friends" with her. I really do not want her friendship, she is not worthy. Why? Because for me, a marriage is really based on true friendship and we have none of that.

She has asked me to put a hold on the divorce, saying she is not ready or I do not want a divorce. She does not say why she wants more time other thsn to say she is "confused".

Not my problem.

I envy you in a way because it would be easier for me to end all contact with her forever.

The bottom line is you tried to make amends for your mistake. I agree with you. Move on if you feel you have done all you can to recover the marriage.

Is he the kind of friend you want now?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is he the kind of friend you want now? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good question! Glad you asked it Gregg!

You talked about your lack of trust for your wife. I don't trust my H anymore either. He is far too secretive about what did or didn't go on with him and his female "friend". I know enough to know that it was more than friendship, but all of that info I didn't even get from him. I also don't trust his intentions to be genuine and kind, rather than with spite and revenge in mind.

As I think about it, I guess I don't want him as a friend that I speak to regularly and spend time with regularly. I do want to be able to be amicable if and when we cross paths though.

Jen

While I am not quite divorced yet, it is almost done. I do not consider my STBXW a friend of mine. She seems to think that I should be able to put what she has done to me and our children in the past behind me and trust her and be friends. Like others have mentioned, she, the WS, does not get it. My love bank is in the red and the lies and deceit were incredibly painful. She expects me to now act like nothing happened and to start with a clean slate. I can not do it.

I tried explaining my position to my STBXW this way one day: "You had affairs and had a secret life and eventually told me to leave our home because you believed I could never change and become the husband you needed. Now you expect me to forget everything that you did and how you treated me and be friends with you?" Her reply was, "It's not the same." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Maybe it is too soon for me. And to think, we are still living in the same house until the court finalizes it's decision on our case. She hasn't worked in four months and now that she has found a part-time job, she feels she doesn't need to contribute anything to help cover expenses. She has offered me to let me see my three sons only two days per week and the divorce has cost me nearly $10k and will likely go higher because she is appealing the court's original decision. Yet, she wants to be friends? It is very difficult. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

HoFS

Jen:

You mentioned the secretive nature of what he is now doing. It is the very heart of the affairs reason to exist. Whatever you do...particularly if you decide to file...be prepared for him to want to re-discuss the marriage. However..I caution you to keep in my mind that only by his actions will you truly know his intentions or lack thereof.

Do not do anything you are not steadfstly committed to doing. If you intend to divorce him...do it. Do not waffle. Do not threaten him.

If you have set timetables and further courses of action beyond Plan A/B and it has not resulted in action by him...chances are it will not happen now. That has been my experience.

If you run into him...by all means...be cordial..if you feel that way. Right now you are trying to oput some distance between you and he. Try to get emotionally de-tached. That might clarify things for you..unless of course you are already there.

As for his spitefulness and revenge...well thats very possible...but not mature. My wife...I have felt is doing the very same thing. But..at times she has told me she is not happy. Gee..I wonder why?

None of this is really your problem. If you honestly feel you have done all that you can...well you know what to do. You have a whole life ahead of you to be happy again and in a relationship that is truly meaningful.

I am sure after what you have been through...and having seen both sides of the coin you probably see that he wouldn't meet your needs when you were elsewhere and now that the coin has "flipped" he still won't commit. To me this speaks volumes.

Take care of Jen. That is the key element and your very first priority.

Hi Jen,
Will be praying for you in the coming days.

you have a lawyer, my advice would be let the lawyer do it all for you, there is no reason for
you to have to discuss anything with him..there are no children, most of the things now are all
legal..

you don't have to even see him..if you choose not to. I wish you the best..

you mentioned being his friend..what kind of friend treats another friend the way he treats you? honestly, get a whole new life separate from him, because you won't belong to each other and you both will be set free when the judge signs the paper..and puts his seal on it..

I think your so called old friendship needs to also come to an end with him..or you will end up
with him in bed like his other bimbos..

sorry but that is all he will want you for..
you need to rise above it..and be strong and be safe..your a wonderful person..keep on keeping on..show him you can live without him..because
that is what divorce is about..not together anymore..is the reality of it all..so you will need to get a new life....even family..they won't look at you the same way either..you NEED your own friends..and family..and don't worry about what he is going to say about you, people will listen and just go on their way..your going to do fine..just don't let him sweet talk you out of your things.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> love ya..EarthAngel..

The big MB overhaul yesterday killed my poll.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Oh well, so much for that I guess. The last time I looked at it, it seemed tht most people chose the option that was something like "Things are amicable, but we rarely if ever see each other."

Indeed, maybe I shouldn't want to or worry about being friends with my H. What's lost is lost. I have really emotionally detached from him. Living apart for over a year has sped that along. I do have my own friends and my own life now. I am ready to move on without this man, believe me, no looking back. I know it is the best option. (Sometimes I miss the old and good days, but I've sadly realized that they are long gone and won't return. Over a year's worth of actions on his part have proved to me that they won't return.)

Thanks Gregg and SadEyes for all your encouragement. It really helps to hear your kind words.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Take care of Jen. That is the key element and your very first priority. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny, my H would say that if I make myself a priority that I am being selfish. Isn't that a warning sign to get the heck out in and of itself? That and his unwillingness to make a commitment to me.

SadEyes, funny you should say just let it all go through the lawyer and don't interact with him, a couple of my girlfriends have been telling me the same thing. The thing about my H is his uncanny ability to manipulate me, whether it's by making me put off the divorce proceedings, or getting me into bed.

Jen

Jen taking care of Jen is NOT selfish, just the opposite, because if Jen can't love herself, then it's impossible for her to love others as well.

If two people cannot be at a minimum amicable, and no reason at all not to be freinds (especially if a long term marriage w/children), then that is pretty convincing evidence the marriage was not a healthy one, and the people should be divorcved. If you can't be friends with somnone, how in the world could you be married to them.... bs who say up front (to their ws) they want the marriage but will never be friends if they are divorced seem a bit schizo to me. It should be the other way around, acknowledging that the two might be better friends than spouses, so amicably divorce. The level of anger, pathos, and even rage bs demonstrate is truly scarey at times, making it clear they are dangerous mates, and revealing (IMO) clearly how they view marriage... (as a contract).

Infidelity has nothing to do with trust per se... relationships are about feelings, fit, healthy intimacy, and a lifetime....when they fail, secrecy is a normal human behaviour, there is no such a thing as a 100% "honest" human being, and no reason why there should be. People will conceal/decieve whatever they think they must to protect their life (or others well-being). Sometimes that protection is inappropriate, sometimes it is not. The problem with infidelity is that people all recognize relationships are personal and no one elses business, so the ws acts like anyone pursuing a relationship who does not want interference... folks do such things all the time, until they are ready to discuss their personal life with friends, family, co-workers, whatever...the problem of course is if you are currently married or in a committed relationship to another person, then this is unfair to them.

The issue is unfairness, not untrustworthiness. And further the unfairness under has to be analyzed, these are special circumstances, mating behaviour is highly complex, especially when mixed in with survival issues (many ws feel they are in very unsafe relationships). None of this is not to say a given ws (or bs, or op) is not a lying, thieveing, untrustworthy person....but if their only failing is an affair, and the rest of their life is worthy, then they most likely would make a good friend...the two just cannot be married, they don't fit that way.

Likewise a bs can be an untrustworthy, lying, emotionally unsafe (controlling for example) individual, and a ws want nothing to do with them. It really depends on the individual, and the poster whose wife says it is not the same is correct. You cannot judge someone as unworthy cause they choose not to be married to you...anymore than you can judge someone a thief who is starving and stole a loaf of bread to feed their kids. Post divorce friendships should be chosen on their own merits, not the mutual anger which in some degree is a normal part of a disintegrating committed relationship as the taker in each of us gets majorly po'd. and typically acts badly. On the other hand, if a person through divorce reveals themself as someone you would not be friends with if you knew them (but never were in a relationship with them), then don't be friends with them. IMO, odd as it seems at first thought, the best way to find out whether a marriage is actually worthwhile is to go through a divorce and see how well the two cooperate, how much animus is present, how much fairness is present. I find it interesting how many bs fight hard for their marriage, and then get treated poorly in divorce (especially financially, but oftentimes cold-heartedly too), and I wonder why in the world did they try to save the marriage in the first place. On the other hand, their is the occasional story about people who divorce, is quite amicable and fair, no hard feelings.....and subsequently they either rekindle their relationship (now that the pressure is off), or even start a recovery during the amicable divorce proceedings...

I think the easiest type of divorce to be amicable in is one without children. I say this only from the fact that children mean that you MUST see and deal with your S. I would have a much easier time if I did not have to deal with my H (a true Plan B type of thing). It also makes it very difficult when H has children and OW is around.

Someone mentioned that the WS don't get it. I agree. My H does not understand why I can be so bitter towards him. He wants things to be fair, wants us to treat each other with respect, etc. Yet, he does not get the fact that over the last two years of my life he has not been fair and has not treated me with respect. So why does he think I should do it now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I will always and have always done what is right for the kids. I will continue to do so. However, when it comes to starting my life over I am no longer going to be the mat that someone walks on. Unfortunetly, he see that my standing up for myself as being unfair, vindictive and spitefull.

With that said, its a fine line between have an amicable divorce and not. I want to be amicable and nice to each other but as soon as I don't agree with what he wants, he gets nasty and then I lash out. It's just difficult. I can honestly say, if I gave into EVERYTHING he wanted things would be so peacful.

sufdb-

Interesting perspective...I agree that my A's had so much to do with maternal issues, difficulty accepting step-children, selfishness and as a result a blatant dis-respect for my x - there were situations that I felt unsafe about...too include my relationship with women in general. I allowed my x only so far into my life and simply sabotaged what existed. My survival instincts were revealed when my x finally said she wanted a dv, go figure! The human spirit can be very animus when "territory" is threatened.

I have been in IC for 1 year now and have learned so much about myself that for the first time in my life I TRULY LOVE MYSELF!

I have been dating a woman for about 3 months now and have never, ever had the contentment in a relationship that I have now, all due to my new found "love". This is not to dismiss the maturity, love and understanding of the woman I'm dating, by no means!

I never thought I was capable of arriving at a place like this in my life...through IC we have torn down the old catch22222 and re-built a new one...The $2.22 man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

sufdb, your presentation adds the dimension that WE ARE NOT ALL BAD! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings to ALL!

<small>[ October 17, 2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: catch22222 ]</small>

X told me all about his A with MOW, he explain he just wanted out of M. told our son he would be there if mom needed help, wanted to be on friendly terms. explained to son how much he was going to pay over the amount allowed for childsupport, 100% of his school. mom would only have to take a parttime job to make ends meet. said just call if I needed any help. that lasted until he walked out the door. X ask for everything he could get, even half of son college money. Im not sure if it was his so called friends helping or MOW. fought for joint custody & won then told son only could see him on Sunday. we moved, only phone call is X making threats against me. Son is not on speaking terms or will not see him because of his lies. Im afraid of him now & want no part of his life. X is a sheriff officer that owes court ordered medical & wont pay. Bumper sticker that says "he missed his X wife, next time he will aim better". Dont expect your X to be on friendly term, I was M almost 18 yrs & thought I knew everything about this man. He is now a stranger that I would never let into my life again. last time he saw his son was 6-02.

I haven't spoken with my ex more than 20 minutes total in the last 3 years or so, and I have the kids (sole custody).
Been divorced since Jan 2002. She doesn't even know that.

So, no, we aren't "friends" or even friendly.
I would be cordial if she were around.

If you're not exactly friends, did you and your ex leave things amicable in the end, or was it messy and angry?
It was neither amicable nor messy. She left. End of story.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong> I haven't spoken with my ex more than 20 minutes total in the last 3 years or so, and I have the kids (sole custody).
Been divorced since Jan 2002. She doesn't even know that.

So, no, we aren't "friends" or even friendly.
I would be cordial if she were around.

If you're not exactly friends, did you and your ex leave things amicable in the end, or was it messy and angry?
It was neither amicable nor messy. She left. End of story. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ya know chris, your circumstances are pretty unusual, and I wonder about you from time to time (as I search out the grand unification therory which explains all behaviour). Have you ever actually figured out why your wife just vanished? The kneejerk reaction to explain this (especially when a woman leaves) is that you are a dangerous individual, and she "escaped". But leaveing her kids (can't remember if you have more than 1 daughter), especially a daughter just doesn't compute...so that leads to your wife is certificably nuts, if so, how could you have not realized that even before marriage. Then you got the cult type scenario....where apparently normal people have a weakness, a backdoor, into their decision making capacity where they give it over to another person if the right buttons are pushed...was she lured away somehow? Or maybe she is a sociopath, and just does what she wants without any ability to consider the effect of her behaviour on others..Or (the most likely I suppose), she just was not ready for marriage, didn't fit, whatever, doesn't think ill of you (left you with kids), but just couldn't cope, and "left" cause she is an avoider, and was afraid you would guilt her, talk her, into staying. Anyways, what a bummer to be left with no explanation, or even warning apparently. On the other hand, no conflict has it's benefits too I guess.