W not living with me for 9 months now. She is still intimate with the OM. I tried Plan B and decided she was convinced I didn't love her anymore. She said the FOG SPEAK "I love you but I'm not in love with you anymore". Then she met an old BF from her single days and almost immediatly became intimate with him, and stays the night with him whenever she can.

I decided to go back into a Plan A since I never did one before she left. She has threatened divorce 3 separate times but hasn't filed. She tell my D that but has never told me. I told her that I didn't won't one and wouldn't file myself. We get along OK but she is still attached to the OM who is a alcoholic and separated from his W for 20 months now. OMW doesn't want him back. OMW wants the divorce but neither she nor OM will file for one. My W felt sorry for him (but not for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> )

I have been sending flowers, cards but not response from her except to tell me thank you for the card or flowers. But that is it. Why won't she divorce me if she wants him so much and not me? I am trying not to LB but the waiting is so hard.

I don't think you could say she is on the fence. After hearing A the quick start tape from His Needs Her Needs, she just said. It's an interesting concept but didn't want to talk about MC or anything more. Still she won't tell me what she wants: to be in or out this marriage. Is she trying to make me file, so that it will be my idea to end the marriage? I have told her again and again I won't file. He silence is frustrating and painful.

I am kind of hoping to bring things to a head by killing her with kindness. I am thinking of keeping this up for about a month and then if I get no response just stopping with no explaination.

My friends what's your take on it all? I don't know what's up or down anymore.

Firebird,

The answer to your question lies right in your post. It is very simple, she doesn't need a divorce. If the facts are as you state them, she can just go on doing what she is doing, a divorce isn't necessary.

If the time comes when you feel that there is no further hope and you decide you need a divorce so you can get along with your own life, you are going to have to do it.

As it stands right now it looks like she can have her cake and eat it too, so to speak.

I'm sure sorry to see you go through this, your story has a lot in common with mine. My ex didn't divorce me until her second married man with a Harley Davidson came along and they decided they wanted to get married.

I suspect that until she feels that she needs a divoce, she won't do it.

Your W won't file for divorce because she is confused and doesn't know what she wants. My guess is that she does still love you and she does still want the marriage but she is caught in a trap (of her own making) and she can't find her way out. If you want to stand for your marriage, stand and be patient. God can restore your marriage but you have to give up control and let Him work in your wife. Pray for yourself and pray for her.

My husband has threatened divorce three times in our six year marriage. Just two weeks ago, he told me he wanted a divorce and custody of the kids. I'm ready a book called The Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner Davis. I'm finding it to be good and helpful. I would recommend it.

If you want her to come back, you need to stop "killing her with kindness". Stop sending flowers and cards. They only make her angry with you and drives her further away. Don't tell her you love her because it will remind her that she doesn't feel the same way right now. Don't beg or plead for her to come back...she won't respect you if you grovel. Get the book.

It is a hard road but if you want a chance at reconciliation, you'll need to back off and work on taking care of yourself.

Firebird
I have also read the book The Divorce Remedy,,
heed the advice from rosannesprayer,,
I also can speak from experience, when my stbxw left saying she didn't think i loved her, this set my narrow minded mind on a mission. To show her that i loved her, i sent flowers, cards, and frequently visited her. All which sent her further away, resulting in an PPO(personal Protection Order) against me. I never would have imagined such a thing coming from a lady i once knew as soft, sweet considerate,,,this lady, who once was so caring, nurturing,,, now is(was) full of hate/resentment!!! I've been accused of stalking, harrassing, following, sexually violating, abusing, belittleing, berating,,told i was an womanizer,, the day she recieved her court papers from FOC, informing her that I won physical custody of our children, i was really informed how she thought of me,,, yes, there is actually a lot more!!! It was actually devastating!

We have two children together, ages 5, and 3. Which made it more difficult.

There were times my W would respond accordingly to some things i have said, or done.
Each and everytime i would respond to quick in return, resulting in sending her back the opposite direction.

I started standing for the healing for my marriage
in Feb. of this year. www.rejoiceministries.org


We have now been to three MC sessions,,,and we have a date this Saturday!!!
WIth the same lady not much more than a month ago was still saying, "I hate YOU!"
We were on the phone together moments ago, laughing together again! This PPO is still in affect,,, but she now has a soft heart,
Thank You God!

She hasn't filed for divorce in case her relationship with the OM fails. She figures that you will take her back so as a result she has no reason to file for divorce. She is being very practical.

You know she is not the "MOTHER OF THE YEAR"
nor is she a wife right now.

it seems to me..she has shown you, she does not
care what you think.
she has lost her values and you are not taking
a stand..against the way she is living..

why waste your time on her right now..
get on with your life with the children, notice the children and put some love and care into them, they are hurting big time..and actually
kids take it personally when parents divorce
or separate.

but seems like she is committed to have a fling or just a lifestyle of one relationship after another..this is painful..
but think of you..and your children.

she is not caring about anyone, not even herself.
is she involved in drugs..or alcohol..then you need to keep on keeping on..and don't wait..she might catch up later.

please don't keep trying to fix something that don't want fixing..it is not going to help she will take what you give her and then laugh behind your back..

God bless you, may God give you wisdom and knowledge in how to deal with this..I am sure
God is watching, and waiting for you to let Him
have at her..in order for that to happen..

you need to let go of her..let her hit rock bottom...what is it you see in her that you love?
what do you love about her?

guess what..she is sleeping around doing other men..and your sending her flowers? what is wrong with this picture?

just move on for a while..don't go after her..
and guess what...most come around for holidays..
then go off in the sick relationships again..

please do not let her use you any more..
your going to get kicked to the curb big time..
but if you let go, take care of the kids and try to find things for you and kids to do..forget the ages..but if small..go feed ducks let them play on a playground..
older take them bowling..go do things they will enjoy roller skating go to the zoo..just don't wait on your wife..she is not thinking about you..beleive me..she is NOT..

get the book the dance of anger by melody beaty
there must be drugs and alcohol involved..
I am sorry. I just can't stand to hear when there are kids involved and moms don't care..that really stinks..big time..

kids do not deserve this..listen to Dr. Laura
call her..she will tell you..take the kids and just get on with your life..it could be 3 years before she wakes up and smells the coffee or dies in her sin..

but kids do not stay small for long..teach them..what mom is doing is wrong and you do not approve..tough love..or your gonna see problems with the kids..follow in moms steps..when they get older..your kids need a parent.LOVE them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
you can just tell them mom is not making good decisions right now for the family..so we are gonna do what we need to, to be happy..till she gets her head screwed on straight..or something.

take the kids to church..get a good foundation under you..build your house on a firm foundation.
not sand..
God will help you..take care and I am praying.
EarthAngel

There could be the inner thought, that she doesn't want to be the bad guy. Many people don't want to file for divorce, they want their spouse to. Cause the divorce was up to the one who filed. I know, my husband had an affair, stole money, lied, cheated, and abused me. He didn't file for divorce, and now I realize the steps they do. He uses it against me, stating he followed through with the divorce that I wanted, cause I filed. He knows, deep in his heart that I didn't want the divorce. I just wanted the cussing, mean spiritedness, lies, threats, and abuse to stop. I wanted this man to turn himself around and realize what he became. I didn't want the divorce. I finally did after I was pulled and dragged and he tore my rotator cuff.

So that could be a reason she doesn't want the divorce. I feel she loves you, and that her emotions are warped. Plus, like the others said, she is having her cake, ice-cream, and icing. All in one union.

I would read the book, suggested above. Maybe that could help. And prayers are needed for the two of you. I have given my husband to the Lord. I have given the Lord most everything in my life. For one, I am wore out, physically, and emotionally. I am just moving on, and hope to have a great job in the future.

GOod luck, this is sickening what the wayward spouses do to their families. My kids being older, have experienced this firsthand, and it has done a lot of psychological damage. Good luck.

Thank you much for your take on things. Something happened tonight. Something not good. I want your help as much as possible. I thought I was strong but tonight I think I wouldn't my dying. Please stay with me on a new thread "This is what she told me" Please I need you all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SadEyes:
<strong>

it seems to me..she has shown you, she does not
care what you think.
she has lost her values and you are not taking
a stand..against the way she is living..?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's a heavy post that you have written. Last night, she made me realize it wasn't just the influence of OM. She doesn't care what I think. I don't matter.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">why waste your time on her right now..
get on with your life with the children, notice the children and put some love and care into them, they are hurting big time..and actually
kids take it personally when parents divorce
or separate.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really thought she loved me but was going through a MLC and I could reach her with my love. She doesn't want it. I didn't know she hated me. Today I know. And yes my 16 D is hurting. All both of us did was think about ourselves and little for what my D is going through. My D is quiet and looks in control, but now I know she is hurting. She wants to live with me and for me to tell that to my W.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she is not caring about anyone, not even herself.
is she involved in drugs..or alcohol..then you need to keep on keeping on..and don't wait..she might catch up later.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never saw any evidence of drugs or alcohol on her part, but maybe mental illness from something that happened before I knew her. Lord knows I wasn't the best husband, but my scowling and sulking had much to do with my lack of emotional honesty to tell her what I wanted and what I didn't like. I wasn't unhappy all the time, just when W hurt me. Would she have responded? I'll probably never know.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God bless you, may God give you wisdom and knowledge in how to deal with this..I am sure
God is watching, and waiting for you to let Him
have at her..in order for that to happen

you need to let go of her..let her hit rock bottom...what is it you see in her that you love?
what do you love about her??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never let go because I thought it would be me that would hit rock bottom without her. I can't imagine how she can be so happy now. She doesn't seem to have a concience. I have never heard her give a sincere apology in all the years I have known her. Whatever, I don't seem the be what she needs or wants. I loved what she was and what I hoped she could be again.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> guess what..she is sleeping around doing other men..and your sending her flowers? what is wrong with this picture?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A lot. I thought she was desperate for attention because I didn't give her enough while we were together, but when I asked her time and again if we were OK, she always said yes, but deep down I knew we weren't. I wanted to show her the affection, that I thought she craved, so I forced myself to try to meet her emotional needs, even though I was so hurt, that I didn't want too.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">please do not let her use you any more..
your going to get kicked to the curb big time..
but if you let go, take care of the kids and try to find things for you and kids to do.....

....just don't wait on your wife..she is not thinking about you..beleive me..she is NOT..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am getting out of way of the final big kick. She needs to pursue her new life as she perceives it. I will not stand in her way. My D will be my main focus now. She needs lots of love now. She has been hurt by the things others have said and I implied about her mom's promiscuity. I didn't handle my hurt as well as I should have.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> get the book the dance of anger by melody beaty
there must be drugs and alcohol involved..
I am sorry. I just can't stand to hear when there are kids involved and moms don't care..that really stinks..big time..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No drugs, etc. She cares much for my D but work has always been in the way of the little everyday things. The big events she has always been there. Sometimes I wonder if she spent so much time with her work, because as a manager, she was successful. As a wife she wasn't and as a mother only somewhat.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..it could be 3 years before she wakes up and smells the coffee or dies in her sin..
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will not wait that long. What we had wasn't all that good. I had hoped that through MB and it's principals we could have built the kind of marriage both of us have wanted. But alas, I couldn't do it by myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Please don't be the one to tell your wife that your daughter wants to live with you. That will unleash emotional manipulation on your daughter that your mind can't comprehend because you knew your wife before she mutated into this hurtful raging being.

Your daughter needs to talk with a counselor and find a way to tell her mother herself - because if she doesn't feel strong enough to tell her mother to her face, she doesn't have the emotional strength to withstand the guilt her mother is going to lay on thick!!!

I had a foster sister who lived with my family by choice for six years after her wayward father told her that if she lived with her mother, she didn't love him. Your wife strikes me as that kind of emotionally manipulative and uncaring about her daughter's feelings.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong> Please don't be the one to tell your wife that your daughter wants to live with you. That will unleash emotional manipulation on your daughter that your mind can't comprehend because you knew your wife before she mutated into this hurtful raging being.

Your daughter needs to talk with a counselor and find a way to tell her mother herself - because if she doesn't feel strong enough to tell her mother to her face, she doesn't have the emotional strength to withstand the guilt her mother is going to lay on thick!!!

I had a foster sister who lived with my family by choice for six years after her wayward father told her that if she lived with her mother, she didn't love him. Your wife strikes me as that kind of emotionally manipulative and uncaring about her daughter's feelings. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong> Please don't be the one to tell your wife that your daughter wants to live with you. That will unleash emotional manipulation on your daughter that your mind can't comprehend because you knew your wife before she mutated into this hurtful raging being.

Your daughter needs to talk with a counselor and find a way to tell her mother herself - because if she doesn't feel strong enough to tell her mother to her face, she doesn't have the emotional strength to withstand the guilt her mother is going to lay on thick!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wanted D to tell her mother, but she thinks it is my place to do it because she doesn't want to hurt her mothers feeling, but apparently doesn't care if I do. I guess she feel like I have nothing more to loose.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>

I had a foster sister who lived with my family by choice for six years after her wayward father told her that if she lived with her mother, she didn't love him. Your wife strikes me as that kind of emotionally manipulative and uncaring about her daughter's feelings. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anything is possible, but my W wouldn't hurt D. But my W would pretend to be sad while agreeing with D so she could have more freedom to pursue her "nocternal interests"