The friend thing is a bit hard to deal with.

But the way I looked at it at the time was if I had reconciled with WW, I would have stood by her and told people we were working on our M. To me that would have spoken volumes to our friends saying "Yes, she/we messed up but we are better then this and we're trying to get through it."

I know there is a lot of humiliation and judgement that accompanies something like this, but shouldn't a person have to face those consequences? Otherwise to me it'd be like a slap on the hand and would have a high rate of being repeated.

For those friends who would not have agreed with the decision, I would have cared less if they weren't our friends any longer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Eduard:
<strong> The friend thing is a bit hard to deal with.

But the way I looked at it at the time was if I had reconciled with WW, I would have stood by her and told people we were working on our M. To me that would have spoken volumes to our friends saying "Yes, she/we messed up but we are better then this and we're trying to get through it."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's the way I see it too. I know that I will loose some of them, hopefully only a few.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know there is a lot of humiliation and judgement that accompanies something like this, but shouldn't a person have to face those consequences? Otherwise to me it'd be like a slap on the hand and would have a high rate of being repeated.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So far just the opposite is happening. WW is becoming more bold. She seems to think that no one minds her infidelity with mutiple OM and her business is her business. I see friends seem to be cordial to her. After all they have known her for many years, but when she is gone, they tell me they can't believe what she is doing and they thought they knew her, and don't really know her afterall. Some want to help us get back together and others feel what she is doing indicates it's all over and those friends just want to help me get on with my life.

I keep thinking sooner or later somethings gotta give. I just wonder will it be me? Last night she showed up at church and sat next to me. I have tried to avoid her execpt for the volleyball functions we attend. It is my week with my D who sings in the choir. Who ever has her attends and the other goes to a different mass. She was all made up and purfumed. I asked if she had plans after mass. She said yes, she was going to a man's house to watch a football game.

Her contact with me is starting to feel like torture is her game now. She knows it's going to hurt me, but she does it and acts like I should not be affected by it because we are "separated". Big deal. I've got feelings. I wish I could understand her warped mind and what's the motive with the teasing and then subsequent rejection if I respond positively. If she really wants out, she should be avoiding me like the plague. Anyone have any take on this?

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Firebird ]</small>

Your WW has probably twisted things in her own mind and no longer finds guilt in her actions so she probably thinks that others don't mind either. That or she is so deep in the fog she doesn't care what others think.

It sounds like you have really good friends.

I had/have a friend that all she would tell me was to get a D and dump her. That she would cheat on me again and every time I'd tell her something that happened she'd get upset with me. She even asked why was I still in the M etc. It got irritating really fast. She had been cheated on before (wasn't married), but I told her time after time that I had to at least try and get that answer on my own.

I think true friends would understand that. I know her intentions were good and she was trying to keep me from the pain and suffering, but some things people just have to figure out for themselves on their own.

PLAN B is to keep you from the torture of fence sitting from the WS. It's for your own good. And it forces a decision to be made either on your part or on hers. She won't stop fence sitting and keeping you in limbo as long as she can have what ever she wants.

What would be her motivation to end her A if she can have you for what ever needs you might fulfill AND the OM for the needs she wants filled by him?

Firey
On this one, I'm going to have to go with Ed on this one. You gotta enforce Plan B a little harder. If she sits next to you at church move. If that embarasses her so what,embarasses you well that's different but will raise it to the attention to all around you that your W has completely flaked out!!!!! My plan B is starting to wane as WW and I coordinate dog plans for Christmas vacation. It's not feeling like a blessed holiday all of a sudden. My point is that I'm starting to understand the difficulty you've had enforcing your Plan B, but you gotta stand firm and protect yourself. She doesn't respect you at all right now playing this game of hers. She's just trying to hurt you. Don't let her!!! Ok enough of that.

Next, while Ed was getting a little too Biblical for me, he does have some good points. The friends are hard. I currently don't have any telling to kick her a$$ into the gutter, everyone has been sorrowful and supportive of me right now. Firey, this will sound tremendously bad, but I think you need to think about waging a PR battle to conserve the mutual friends you WANT. By telling people about your sitch they will warm to you and comfort you. There is no reason that WW should get all your friends. She'll get which ever ones you concede. For example, I'm conceding the skiing friends but taking the church and school friends. I'm a little pissed today so I'm kinda on the attack. I'm glad to hear that you have good support. You'll continue to need them in the future. And what's up with this "separation" business, is it the same as Plan B.

Saving the best for last...touching a woman. I got nothing for you on that one except take it to the Lord and he'll either remove the need or fill it. He has been faithful to me many times on this specific issue. I'm sorry you feel this way, it is very lonely, empty, and painful. I believe God wants me to be married to him right now so that's what I'm going for, but it is oh so tempting and self-justifying to go out and find someone. One thing I don't reccommend is searching your local personal ads, that was decidely out of God's will for me and painfully tantalizing. It didn't do me any good. I don't recommend it.

I guess all I have for you is hang in there. I'm praying for you and WW. She's totally out of her mind right now. Remember believe none of what you hear and only 1/2 of what you see.

Firey and Ed
I've got a lot to dump on you right now. I need help bad.

First, I'm so anxious and nervous right now because I just learned that WW bought a cell phone, has signed up with a roommate finding service, and the impending holidays. Aaaaahhh!

Cell phone. We haven't gotten one yet mostly because of me, but she got it so that people can always find her since she is not at home. I see ready, untraceable access to OM. I'm pissed!!!! Can you swear on these boards? Will this ever be over?

Roommate service. When I saw a credit card charge for an online roommate service, I felt terrible. Then I saw her picture online looking for a new place to live. Oh God what am I doing to her? What is happening?

It is totally reasonable for her to make these changes. She's got to do something with her life also. She can't just tread water forever either I guess. Oh it's so bad. I initially wanted to say that it is not my place to punish her and am not trying to. Oh I felt so bad looking at a picture of my wife trying to find a new place to live. I care so much about her, how can I turn her away. Last week she wanted to meet with me about the holidays. Is she going, going, gone? Does any of this matter at all anymore? Doubt and fear are swirling around me, caving in on me. All the anger in me has faded to pain and fear.

I gotta finish this. The holidays...I want to see the neices and nephews on her side and their parents are ok with it but WW doesn't seem to be. It is her family after all. What am I thinking that I want to see members of her family? Have I lost my d@mn mind?

Pray for me guys. I'm not doing well.

Eduard and RTRC:

Doing PR is what I have been about the last 5 months or so. I am conceding nothing to WW in the way of friends. Right now the I have the most problem with my 2 cousins whom I have told you won't shut the door on WW and one other couple but the other 10 couples more my friends than hers, but there is only 3 couples that are my constant support. I do everything they want whether I feel like it or not so they won't stop inviting me to do things with them.

RTRC:
I am in a fowl mood myself. When I think of WW I can't imagine her to ever be honest, loyal, faithful or trustworth again. It just seems like since she has become comfortable with this slut life style that she is not the person I chose to believe she was. If it was just one OM I could forsee her maybe coming out of the fog one day, but this just seems completely amoral or a sick person that has lost control of reality and is drunk with lust.

I know Plan B will protect me from that but it also prevents me from going on with my life. Decisions, decisions. Yup, right now the pendulum is swinging the other way - toward outrage.

You really shouldn't have to do PR work. I probably did "PR" work just by telling people what happened. Of course the whole time I made sure to not blame her for what happened in regards to the M, I took responsibility for my failures in the marriage and I never slandered her. The decision to have an A was hers and I cannot take the blame for that one. I did/have told people of her actions, but I try not to put her down in any way shape or form.

WW was mad at me for informing the very few mutal friends we had because she didn't get to tell them first and try to get their sympathy first so she totally cut them off for the most part.

RTRC- WW used her Cell for that exact reason, to eliminate my keeping track of her contact. Eventually you learn to let go and not care because there is nothing in your power to prevent it.

That brings up one of Haley's points that my counselor found fault in. The - give me all of your phone/email account information. You don't want to have to police someone because if they really want to avert it, they can.

My WS posted a personal add while we were separated. I have to admit to failing in that area myself because I did it too. I used it with the true intentions of getting to meet people and to just make friends. I thank God I wasn't highly sought after and only ended up talking to one person.

I have to admit the holidays are tough. I thought to myself, this is the first time in 9 yrs I won't be attending any of her family's functions. It's a bit of a loss, but that just means more time for my family and friends. It was a change of thought at first, but now I'm fine with it.

Firebird How does Plan B prevent you from going on with your life? If she's not actively involved with it, then you can do as you please without having to worry about what she's doing or what you're doing.

It allows time to pass to
A. Heal the wounds or get over WS

B. Expose WS to real life and force them to embrace it or come running back to you

C. Allows you time to yourself to straighten out your thoughts for yourself

D. Allows you to be less affected by WS actions and not be reminded daily of what she's doing.

Firebird
I added you to my yahoo IM, I'm icemaned1

RTRC The reason I've put so many scriptures in these posts is because I know they hold the truth to the questions we can't answer for ourselves. They provide truth, hope, freedom and the definitive answer.

For me, it gave me the answer as to what I had to do in my situation. In particular this section in 1 Corinthians 7

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I found my answer in the Italicized text when my WW moved 2000 back to California without me. I thought I was going back until I found the true answer. I knew following my WS would not fix the M and would only contribute to future problems.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Matthew 19:9
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This quote is the grounds for which I filed for D.

For life altering, life changing decisions I wanted to make sure for myself that I did the right thing. The only thing to give me guidance as to whether or not I made the right decision is the Bible.

Thanks guys for adding me to your Yahoo IM friends list. I am going with a friend to a HD motorcycle shop. He's into HD cloths. When I get back I'll try to contact you.

Later <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

As long as you allow her to be married to you her slutty behaviour dishonours you. I don't believe Plan B will have much of an impact especially when she thinks she has other men to fulfill her emotional and physical needs. Your wife will not change until she is divorced and comes to the realization that the other men have no interest in pursuing a serious relationship with her but only want to use her as a sex toy.

Guys I really need your help. I'm shaking after seeing my wife's smiling face on the internet in an ad for a roommate, looking for a place to live. I feel so terrible. I'm so sorry. I can't believe it has come to this. It's like part of my body has been ripped off. This is like DDay all over again. I thought we could fix this with enough time and talking, but it is looking like I'm not going to get the chance. I'm sorry honey. I still love you. God this is awful. What the h--- is happening to me? Where is that mountain top faith I felt a few days ago? I miss her so much. I want to call her, touch her, anything...she's my wife and I've sent her away. I feel like s---. Sorry guys. I don't know what to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by yosh:
<strong> As long as you allow her to be married to you her slutty behaviour dishonours you. I don't believe Plan B will have much of an impact especially when she thinks she has other men to fulfill her emotional and physical needs. Your wife will not change until she is divorced and comes to the realization that the other men have no interest in pursuing a serious relationship with her but only want to use her as a sex toy. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOSH:
You always cut to the core. With an almost sick feeling in my stomach, I can't disagree. I have teetered on the brink of divorce for sometime. Hoping beyond hope for the future I wished for but can't seem to have.

Tonight will be a quiet night while I pray for courage and strength to carry on.

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: Firebird ]</small>

RTRC The darkest nights come before the brightest days.

There's a lot of things you're still going to have to face and get through before you can get to the good stuff <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Is there anything you can do to try to take your mind off of things? I used to go running/workout, not that it really took my mind off of it but it gave me a great output for the stress of things.


Yosh Along those lines, I had told my WW a few times that all she would be doing is exchanging our problems for some other problems with someone else. The scenery may change, but the issues still remain.

<small>[ December 16, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Eduard ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ridingtherollercoaster:
<strong> Guys I really need your help. I'm shaking after seeing my wife's smiling face on the internet in an ad for a roommate, looking for a place to live. I feel so terrible. I'm so sorry. I can't believe it has come to this. It's like part of my body has been ripped off. This is like DDay all over again. I thought we could fix this with enough time and talking, but it is looking like I'm not going to get the chance. I'm sorry honey. I still love you. God this is awful. What the h--- is happening to me? Where is that mountain top faith I felt a few days ago? I miss her so much. I want to call her, touch her, anything...she's my wife and I've sent her away. I feel like s---. Sorry guys. I don't know what to do. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My first inclination is to reach out for her, but the best thing may be to let her face the harsh realities of single life. If it was so good, people wouldn't keep trying to get married or live together.

Room mates could work out but that's mostly in TV sitcoms. This is real life. But I would be sensitive and kind if she came back humbled by life.

I knew I was a basket case when I wrote that but couldn't really get control of myself. I'm sure your comment about the darkest nights and bright days is figurative because today is only slightly better.

I was in a state of panic and irrational. I know you're speaking good words about getting some exercise and getting a little of a distraction. I guess that is what cookie baking was doing for me. I still believe in our M. I still believe in the promises of a wonderful future with her. Now though, I just feel lonely and that the holidays are a thundering locomotive about to plow me down.

I got some counseling from a friend late last night and I was able to sleep, but when I woke up this was all still here. Great. I've taken it to the Lord and he's taking care of it. I just need to sit tight a while.

I promise to be more constructive and helpful soon.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ridingtherollercoaster:
<strong>
I got some counseling from a friend late last night and I was able to sleep, but when I woke up this was all still here. Great. I've taken it to the Lord and he's taking care of it. I just need to sit tight a while.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey RTRC:
Your doing good. The Lord will take that off you. In the mean time pamper yourself and post often. Do you know the friends that your W was staying with? I wonder if they could tell you what is going on. Something must have happened for her to leave there. Sounds like a sudden move to rent a place without enough funds to be able to pay for it. I'm gathering that what the effort for a room mate is for.

Yeah, sorry man the light doesn't click on that fast.

RTRC:

I've been thinking about you and wondering how you are doing?

Firey
Well I'm doing a bit better. That pendulum swing was pretty nasty. I respect the fact that WW has to do something with her life while I'm trying to get my own head straight. I lived with friends for a while after Dday and know how difficult it can be. I still feel like I am doing this to her, like pushing her away causing her to need a cell phone and new place to live. I guess it's a positive that she isn't finding an apartment. That would be a major financial stretch for us.

Also to my surprise, she left a couple of token Christmas presents under the tree at the house for me. I had gotten her some presents but didn't expect her to. I stare at them sometimes and wonder when/if I should open them. For us, our Christmas tradition was always to have a nice dinner, take a family pic, and open gifts the night before we start traveling to see family. That night for me is tomorrow. I know I'll open them with the dog but it won't be the same.

I've just be feeling very lonely and more so as the holidays approach. The love in my heart is a cool reminder of who I miss. Look at me I'm getting all gushy romantic nostalgic again. I want to share the holidays with someone just like 900 bazillion other Americans. You or Ed had a good point, if the single life were so great, why is seemingly everyone trying to find someone else to share their life with. Bad news for WW and unfortunately for us also.

Thanks for checking up on me. I've been praying for God to comfort all of us and help us to remember that he loves us and gave us the greatest gift many years ago.