I thought I'd drop in with a bit of an update. The "Matrimonial Property Contract" (step 1 towards a divorce) has been drafted and once I clarify a couple points with my lawyer, it's ready to pass on to my H and his lawyer to sign. My H has already taken out a loan in order to pay me off for my part of the equity in our house. He's agreeing to my terms. It will likely move along smoothly as it's all going along amicably. Sounds peachy keen right?

Well, in the past couple of weeks since the Dv proceedings have been getting on track, my H and I have been spending a lot of time on the phone, he even asked me out to dinner (I went), and in short, I've seen glimpses of the husband I loved, and he's been making deposits in my love bank. We've talked about things like how he'll never love anyone like he's loved me, how he acknowledges and apologizes for his friendships with his female coworkers that made me feel so unappreciated and in part contributed to me looking for attention elsewhere, and he's also conceded that if we ever work things out that he won't continue his friendships with either of those women either. I swear to you he uses the phrase "if we ever get back together" at least a couple times each time we talk. He really had my hopes rising again that maybe, just maybe he'd be up for reconciling.

But then yesterday I found out he's already taken the loan for the money he owes me for the house if this all goes ahead.

Problem with him is this: he doesn't want to let go of me, and does miss me, but he also isn't willing to wholeheartedly commit to me again either. I forgot this for a few days there, but I've known it for a long time and that's why I'm divorcing him. I will continue to go ahead with the Dv proceedings.

I'm mad at myself for letting myself become emotionally vulnerable to him again and getting my hopes up. But as so many people have told me, if it's meant to be, we could even work things out after the divorce and remarry.

Divorce isn't something I really wanted, but he keeps repeating how it is. The truth is it's just necessary since I'm not getting what I want and need from my H.

Sigh,

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I guess my unwritten (implied) question today was/is this: I'm being wise aren't I, to make my decision to divorce based on my H's actions (or lack thereof) instead of on his words? (His words lately hint at him maybe someday being able to reconcile, but he's not comfortable with much more than phone conversations, secret meetings, and sleepovers, although he did go out in public with me for the first time in months last week for dinner.)

I've been told many times by my MB friends to think like this (focus on his actions, not his words), and my rational side of my brain thinks like this, but my heart sometimes still longs to work things out with my H, because I can't imagine loving anyone else as much as I loved him.

I guess I just would like to hear if other folks think I'm thinking rationally here or not.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You are thinking rationally Jen. It is just hard to let go of what we would really like and what actually is. It really is true that actions speak louder than words. I wish I had learned that years ago. Happy Thanksgiving...Pat

I understand what you are going through, believe me. I filed for divorced and was finalized this month. My exH did the same things, may be someday or maybe we could work things out. I felt that so many times in the past 2 years that how can I be so stupid. I let myself be vulnerable and believed that maybe he does still want to work things out with me.

You see, while he was saying things like he wanted his family back and he misses me, he continues to see the OW and sleep with her. As I verify all this from him, all he can say is that he has to be SF somehow and since we did not know where we stood, somehow it is justified in his head that its ok to keep his relationship with her.

Like you, I was not and did not feel that the message is getting through to him. He allowed the divorce to happen and up to now, he says that he feels he got backed in a corner and he had no choice but to go through with the divorce.

Is this still the fog. Just tonight he calls and says that he felt like calling because they are about to eat dinner and he wanted to see if I was ok. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He has the kids this Thanksgiving.

Anyway I feel like calling him back and telling him how I feel. I will not be making that call as I vowed to go dark since the divorce was final.

Sorry to hear your predicament, but thought I would share and let you know you are not alone.

jen,

i am sorry about your husband's behavior. something needs to be done, but remember that divorce (speaking from experience unfortunately) is very traumatic. my wife (ex) always told me that sometimes divorce helps marriages. so far it has not helped ours. have you considered other possible alternatives? if you love your husband, try to figure out something else. PLEASE!

Indeed miserynmisouri, I tend to let myself get caught up in what I would really like and sometimes overlook what really is (which is that he's not willing to recommit to me). Thanks for your encouragment.

supermom, how long have you been "dark" since the divorce? That must have been so hard to do, especially considering that you have shared custody of your kids. The reason I ask is that it has been easiest for me to make it on my own, be happy on my own when I go for weeks without contact with my H. That way he doesn't have a chance to pull at my heartstrings, since he's not willing to treat me like his wife or even girlfriend again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He allowed the divorce to happen and up to now, he says that he feels he got backed in a corner and he had no choice but to go through with the divorce. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H keeps repeating, "I'm giving you what you want. You're the one in control," as if to say pretty much the same thing as your exH. I told him the last time we talked how that matrimonial property document is an "agreement", and he is agreeing to go through with this, but I'm sure he still views it as giving in.

The fact that he's already gotten a loan in order to pay me out for my half of the house equity tells me he's willing to go ahead with the divorce, but that he is not willing to fight for this marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> have you considered other possible alternatives? if you love your husband, try to figure out something else. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ves, there aren't other possible alternatives. The 2 alternatives are a) work wholeheartedly on this marriage NOW, or b) divorce NOW. It's been a year and a half of separation and no real change in my H's behaviour, other than the fact that his anger has subsided and he's capable of talking calmly with me. He's not willing to treat me like his wife. I must remain a dark secret in his life. He's not really up for letting go of me, but he's also not willing to treat me as well as I deserve to be treated. I don't want a lifetime of crumbs and scraps and being treated like I'm not the #1 priority in his life, so that's why I chose to go ahead with the divorce. (But of course part of me from time to time had hoped it would snap my H out of his apathy and get him to fight for our marriage, but he doesn't seem to have it in him.)

I guess I should tell him that last part. I sort of have in different words though, and I usually hear from him that he's just not ready to make a commitment to anyone or anything in this life. He says since I'm in a hurry he'll do as I wish AKA he'd like to have some attachment to me forever probably but isn't willing to buck up and treat me like his wife.

Jen

<small>[ November 28, 2003, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

i had no idea that you have been separated for a year and a half. has counselling worked? have you tried plan b? just curious.

I went for IC, my H has never been willing to go for counselling. I even brought it up again last week. I never did plan B, I didn't have it in me I guess. Besides, I just made it clear to him that he either was willing to make a real commitment to me again as his wife, or it was time for a divorce. I've had enough limbo, I deserve better.

Also, he has become such a negative and pessimistic person since my affair and our separation. I am like a friendly ray of sunshine in this world, and he's like an isolationist big dark cloud. I'm working hard to make choices to do things that make me happy with my friends and family, and still live for the future and all its possibilities. He's making choices to have next to no friends and to isolate himself with only his family, and to view the world from a very negative and cynical viewpoint. I don't know if I could truly be happy with him anymore.

Jen

Hi Jen,

I just decided to go totally dark for the past three days. You are right in that it is difficult because of the children and this is why I was not able to do it until now. I did plan A for 6 months and then plan B for 6 months. My Plan B was not perfect and that is another reason for going dark.

The reason for wanting to go dark is in my mind this is kind of like my last ditch effort in seeing if he will miss me. It has been so difficult that I tell myself out lound and sing song "go dark", LOL.

I am alone this weekend and I am trying hard to not pick-up the phone and call him and the kids. Anyways, he did call at 1 a.m. to talk and sure enough, the tugging at my heartstring and the hope comes flooding in me again.

I understand that you are the WS and I am the BS but, it is very interesting for me to see your situation that your ex-h is the one who is not sure of the reconcialiation. I guess it goes both ways as we are both experiencing right now.

Just wanted to say, hang in there!! Go with your heart, what have you got to lose?

It is hard to go through life feeling unloved, and betrayed. I wish I could just follow my own advice!

It sounds like your husband's priorities are about as screwed up as my wifes.

My situation is somewhat similar, my wife seems to care about everyone else in the world except for me.

As far as the limbo, I feel like we are caught in the same trap. Are marriage is just going to die because I can't seem to get a commitment out of her. She says that she loves me, but, is not "in love" with me anymore. She doesn't meet my needs, I keep telling her she is not, but, she doesn't quite seem to grasp the concept, or just doesn't care. She says "I am doing what I can". What she can, always seems to involve her taking care of herself and everyone else in the world except for me.

I keep trying to be nice, and the perfect husband, but, she just doesn't believe my intentions, and/or just doesn't want to be with me, no matter what. I just wish she would say what she really thinks or is doing. After a while, I get so frustrated because I feel rejected, I love bust 'big time'. Then that's what she uses to justify why she can't commit to making our marriage work. Keeping us caught in limbo, on and on and on it goes month after lousy month.

Maybe I can offer some insight to your husbands thinking here. I do not want a divorce, but, I am getting to the point where I am willing to go through with it, just because I am tired of playing the game. It is getting to the point where I just feel rejected, used, and just plain unappreciated.

I don't know the particulars of what went wrong in your relationship, but, have you tried asking him what he really wants? And if he tells you do you believe him? If he says things, no matter how simple they are, they might just be his problem, as to why things aren't working out. If he tells you things like sex is an important need to him, then it is. I have this problem with my wife. To me, the only real difference between me and all of these other people in her life is that we have a commitment to meet each others needs. Sex, is probably my most important need, but, she just isn't willing to meet it. She doesn't understand how important it is to me. She says if we have sex, than that means everything is o.k.. To me, it is not saying that everything is o.k, it is just saying that I am important to her and that she is willing to work on our problems in our relationship. For me, it is not just sex, it has psychological implications for me as well. It says to me, that she loves and cares for me. It makes makes me feel important and appreciated. It sets me apart from all the other people in this world. When I say I want sex, I don't mean I just want her to lay there, I want her to initiate it and take an active role in it. Make me feel special, and wanted.

Your husband is coming around, having conversation with you, etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, in the past couple of weeks since the Dv proceedings have been getting on track, my H and I have been spending a lot of time on the phone, he even asked me out to dinner (I went), and in short, I've seen glimpses of the husband I loved, and he's been making deposits in my love bank. We've talked about things like how he'll never love anyone like he's loved me, how he acknowledges and apologizes for his friendships with his female coworkers that made me feel so unappreciated and in part contributed to me looking for attention elsewhere, and he's also conceded that if we ever work things out that he won't continue his friendships with either of those women either. I swear to you he uses the phrase "if we ever get back together" at least a couple times each time we talk. He really had my hopes rising again that maybe, just maybe he'd be up for reconciling. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why can't it just be that simple. Maybe he has finally realized the error of his ways, learned his lesson so to speak. I know I did, my wife gave me a real eye opener when things started going bad. I learned my lesson about how I wasn't meeting her needs, and I have changed. But, my wife didn't believe my intentions and just doesn't want to seem to want to give me a chance. She would rather move on and give a complete stranger more of a chance than me. Which really isn't fair in my opinion, she compares me to other people she deals with occasionally day to day, or a boyfriend of sorts when she was a teenager. I have been with her for 10 years. It's all of my bad attributes/actions over the last 10 years against these people who she hasn't even had the chance to see the bad sides of. It's easy to get along with someone a couple hours a day, but, we have lived together with children day in and day out for a long time. Her unwillingness to believe that I have changed and that I want to meet her needs, has created all sorts of new problems in our relationship. It's a back and forth game of who has hurt who the most, and you should feel sorry that you have hurt me so much. It is really silly, kind of like kids. Don't be a martyr. Like I said before, I wish I could follow my own advice.

Anyway, my point is, maybe, just maybe, he is finally coming around and is willing to work on your relationship. Maybe he has finally weighed his options and realizes that things weren't really that bad, and he realizes what he is giving up. But, at the same time, he doesn't want to commit to going back into the relationship with you if all of his needs are not going to be met. Like the good doctor says, it only takes one need not being met to cause problems.

As far as the loan, without knowing what the future holds in store, He just can't sit around waiting. Loans (espescially mortgages) take a long time to get, not to mention whether or not they even get approved. Without any gaurantees that things are going to work out, He needs to be prepared and weigh his options. So, you cannot hold that against him. After all, right now, it sounds like you are the one that is just going to let the divorce go through.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Problem with him is this: he doesn't want to let go of me, and does miss me, but he also isn't willing to wholeheartedly commit to me again either. I forgot this for a few days there, but I've known it for a long time and that's why I'm divorcing him. I will continue to go ahead with the Dv proceedings.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It doesn't sound like you are wholeheartedly commited to him either, why not break the stalemate.

Good luck, I wish you the best. I know it is not easy! I am sitting here in pain and agony myself!
Just asking why things can't improve.

If you ever need someone to talk to feel free to send an e-mail. I could use a penpal myself.

[email]kmqc2000@yahoo.com [/email]

If you want to read a good soap opera, check out my post in divorced/divorcing. 'Wife doesn't care, nothing I do works'.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The fact that he's already gotten a loan in order to pay me out for my half of the house equity tells me he's willing to go ahead with the divorce, but that he is not willing to fight for this marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Possibly. But I can tell you that if it were me, I'd do the same thing solely because you are pushing the divorce and that it is the only prudent thing to do financially. Where you live is not germane to the idea of marriage. You can live anywhere as a married couple. It isn't the "things" that make a marriage.

From what you've posted, though, I see the beginnings of his finally beginning to "see." But I also agree with you that at this point, actions speak louder than words. Remember, a divorce is not final until it is final, but you can continue to have discussions about what a Godly marriage is supposed to be like and that unless you are both ready to commit and surrender you lives to Christ, there is no future in being unevenly yoked.

Jen, you have learned the value of obedience to God through the past 14 or 15 months. Your husband is perhaps only at the "infancy" stage now that he is beginning to realize that his baby tantrums ARE actually going to cause him to lose his "security blanket." His statements ARE a start, a beginning, but it's not yet the stuff that a successful marriage, much less a successful recovery, is made of.

God bless.

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

<small>[ August 05, 2004, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

Jen:

I don't have much 2 add 2 what you and others have said so far.

It is important 2 note the changes in YOU over the past 2ple of months though. These changes are fundamental. You're going 2 be okay, and you KNOW it now.

Your H is also going 2 be okay. It may be that proceeding the way he is is his way of "falling back and regrouping". He's got so much emotional inertia 2 overcome, that it will likely take quite some time for him 2 overcome it. Is your "pushing the DV" influencing his behavior? Possibly, who knows (maybe not even him)?

I think it's lovely 2 hear that you had a dinner date with him. Doesn't mean anything has 2 happen "next", either. And that's an important point 2 be made, 2. Jen, you may be on the verge of finally being able 2 have a healthy relationship with your STBXH, possibly for the first time since you met him. It would be cool if you 2 could become friends this way, whether it leads 2 a long-term friendship that you never had, or a reconciled M.

best,
-ol' 2long

Jen,
I was glad to see your post as I'd been wondering how you were doing.

I don't have much wisdom to add, just wanted to say 'hi' and I'm thinking of you.

You deserve much in life and in a man, and to me what you're doing now is a step in that direction. You and your H may reconcile someday, but for now you must take care of things.

God bless,
HP

Hey Jen

A couple of things you need to tell yourself....

There is no reason you two cannot date in the future once you are divorced. Many couples do indeed divorce and remarry.

So when you start second guessing yourself DON'T.

Look at the divorce as putting in some much needed boundaries where he can no longer treat you like he owns you or you owe him.

Perhaps then if things are meant to be you both can start new with a fresh clean slate rather than a marriage stuck with baggage from the affair and its fallout.

I am sorry it's taken me so long to post a reply to you all. Thanks very much for all of the encouragement everyone.

supermom - stick to your guns and try to stay "dark" if that is what gives you sanity. Although, that advice is easier to give than to follow, I know that first hand.

tried2much - I guess your screen name reflects how you feel about your efforts to save your marriage? My marriage too is going to die b/c I just can't get a commitment out of my H. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe I can offer some insight to your husbands thinking here. I do not want a divorce, but, I am getting to the point where I am willing to go through with it, just because I am tired of playing the game. It is getting to the point where I just feel rejected, used, and just plain unappreciated. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel EXACTLY the same way you do. I want a divorce for the same reasons. It's time to move on with me life if my H can't give me a commitment, and can't be bothered to try to make me feel loved, appreciated and like I am a priority in his life. I deserve better (and so do you).

Have I tried asking him what he really wants? Yes, he says he doesn't know. Copout I know, but that's pretty much what I usually hear. I also get "I don't want to make a commitment to anyone or anything right now." I also get remarks about how he doesn't want kids anymore, but I do, so that would make things difficult.

As far as him coming around and having conversations with me, and opening up to me, the cynic in me has returned, and views all of it as him not being able to let go, and still caring about me, but not having it in him to make a commitment to me and treat me with respect like one would show a good friend, let alone a wife. I'm still a dark and dirty secret from his other friends and family.

Now I guess I'm relieved that he's already gotten the loan. I can see that it's the prudent thing to do financially because of how long it can sometimes take to deal with such financial matters.

Indeed FH, I think I am a securtity blanket to him at this point, and not a whole lot more.

laura_lee: We have been in continued sexual contact. My stupidity. I thought it would originally be a way to begin rebuilding, by showing him how much he needs me. But as you say, the message he was learning is that he could get sex without commitment. Part of me thinks all of his recent efforts at niceness are just an attempt to get back into my pants again.

Hey there 2long, good to hear from you! The only thing that I think may not work with being friends is that it's just too hard. I find it almost easier to not be in touch with him at all, rather than trying to be friends, it pulls at my hearstrings so much.

Something that's on my mind today...there's still a part of me that doesn't believe my H when he says he's never had physical relations with that one female friend. He confessed to trying to talk her into having sex once about 5 months ago, and claims she turned him down flatly. However, I still don't trust him. Especially since I hear that her car was at his place Sat. morning last weekend...(my friend who lives 4 doors down came over to visit me on Sat. and saw her car)....maybe after a sleep over. Part of me would like to sick a PI on his butt and find out the truth, but what's the point now? Our marriage is ending, he hasn't been emotionally committed to me for over a year.

All I know is he's not willing to treat me with love, appreciation and respect, he's not willing to make a commitment to me, and he is willing to pay me out for my half of the house and go ahead with the divorce, so that's my plan of action at this time. Sometime in the next couple months I'll be able to move out of this crappy apartment with thin walls (and obnoxious cranky neighbours) into the kind of place I deserve and can afford, and begin building a life for myself by myself.

Jen

Hi Jen,

As wonderful as it would be to get back together, or whatever it is that you're thinking, I wouldn't let this get to you too much. Based on my own experience (take what you will), it's easier to go through with the divorce when you aren't yelling and screaming at each other. As such, you talk about the "good old times" and try to keep things "soft". This can rekindle the odd moment of wondering what the heck is going on.

For me, when I got together to talk about this stuff, I found that if we talked about 99% of what we would be inclined to discuss, it would lead to fighting. The remaining 1% was talking about things that we did well before the marriage got bad.

As for getting back together, for me, it was easier to talk about things that way because it took the sting out of what was actually going on. It was denial... nothing more nothing less. For my part, I always made very sure to note that we weren't getting back together and that while we had great memories and I enjoyed those things, I tried to keep everything at arm's length. When the dv went through, she acted kind of surprised that I didn't actually stop it.

Jen:

I can understand why you might not feel comfortable being "friends" with him after a DV. No problem there.

I also have practically no doubt whatsoever that he's been involved in at least the one PA since you separated. But you're right, none of it matters, and you could certainly spend lots of money and energy proving something beyond a shadow of a doubt. A waste, really.

Your self-confidence has re2rned, as evidenced by your tone over the past 2ple of months. THAT's what's most important.

-2long

Lyxa, thanks for your post, what you say makes a lot of sense, and helps me to take things as they are right now. 2long, thanks for noticing that my confidence is up. I think it's one of the biggest changes in me since our separation, because my H isn't eating away at my confidence any more, even if he claims to not see how he ever did that.

He called me last night, late, after I was asleep (at like 10:30). I didn't bother to answer. I just listened to the message this morning. He left a semi-smart alecky sounding message saying "Hi, my name is John, my number is...., and I just called to say I got your little lawyer package, and I just wanted to say how I'm sorry things didn't work out for you the way you wanted." He didn't sound sorry. And he's sorry that things didn't work out for ME? How about US? That message and his tone left me mad. I know it's a bit crazy, but that one little phone message with a less than sincere tone makes me think all over again that any of his niceness in the past few weeks was all just an attempt to get in my pants again.

Now we'll see if he actually does have a lawyer or if it was all talk, as he absolutely needs one to reply to (sign and agree to) the thick "division of matrimonial property" documents he received yesterday. I'd be amazed if he responded quickly, but I expect that he'd drag it out (Mr. Avoidance). He also has been asked in the accompanying letter to let my lawyer know if he wants to pick up the Dv papers from her, or if she should send them to his lawyer. I'll bet he'll ignore that request. Gee whiz I'm cynical where he's concerned, aren't I?

Jen

After a little more thought, I think my H's strange, insincere tone may have been because now it's more real for him (seeing it in black and white in that big document), and he's a bit pissed off again that he has to pay me money for my half of the house equity. I guess Dv just carries with it animosity.

Jen