Hi - "Unhappy" Wife has apparently called off the process server. She thinks best solution: I'll vacate house, visit on convenient days, life will be wonderful. I initiated conversation regarding our 3 month estrangement last week. She said she was filing Monday. I asked her not to and told her of the reasons I felt there is hope, that I am willing to do what I need to, thet I'm getting IC, and I really couldn't stop her but believe 17 year marriage and children deserve some consideration... Monday comes and she sees a flower truck in the driveway: Said she was all excited that had 'done something'. Wrong - girlfreind sent something... I got home that night and initiated conv. again. She offered fairly generous terms. I'm not seeking a D at this time. She is a very worthwile person, not perfect, but who is? I tactfully reviewed my failings (no SA, EA, gambleing, etc, but failure to lead the family effectively). I then went on to review the financial realities. It is likely the house would be liquidated to pay lawyers, etc... If she was in the house she'd have no ability to spend lavishly, vacation, etc like she aspires to do (MLC loud and clear). So she said " Fine I'll just relocate out of state with the kids"...
I managed to convince her not to start a damaging struggle at this point, thanked her for her obvious good intentions, etc. and asked her to allow the MB process to work. I avoided any LB's for the last month plus.
So - Yesterday there is a mild crack in the ice - greetes me by name, avoids usual 'loaded for bear' nasty tone. Even seems to pay attention when I speak with her. We are still sleeping separately, and obviously on thin ice.
Question: I'm looking for advice on tactfully making it clear that the children and custody are not to be used as barganing chips. We can avoid financial ruin and reduce damage by working things out in a civil fashion. She hates formal talk - but that's the gist of what I'd like to communicate if/when the threat is made.
Working for the best outcome,
Mike <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ February 11, 2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: MikeP ]</small>

How about something simple if it comes up? Something like “You know I don’t want divorce. But if you insist, I’d like to work with you so that we can avoid a financially and emotionally costly legal battle.”

I would not use the terms “bargaining chips” or bring up custody as a possible bone of contention. You don’t want to start off with her thinking “I can’t believe he likes I’d act like that!”

That's the issue. I'm looking for a decent, non threatening approach. I'm pretty careful to use very neutral language, avoid LB's, etc... But her statement does seem to offer to use children as leverage against me. So I want to kick it around with folks who've done this and see what you think.

I will tell you MikeP. I tried with everything I had to give her peace in the divorce. The only thing I put off limits were my boys. I told her that they were not up for any bargaining. I would accept 50/50 or more, but not less. I cared nothing for the house (I gave it to her freely) I cared nothing about 'full vs. half child support' (I gave full to her freely) I cared nothing about the bills (I took everything except her student loans) I cared nothing about the taxes (I took them all freely) I cared nothing about the cars, the things in the house, etc. (SHE chose what I should take with me.) I gave her $1k each month for maintenance, even though there is NO LEGAL right to it(I gave it of my own accord and offer). Again, all I said was off limits were my boys.

I continually was hounded by her about everything I had that now she didn't. Even though our incomes were exactly equal initially. I continually heard about how I had (the good stuff) or that now I just went out and bought (all new stuff while she had the 'old' stuff). No matter what I did, there was no placating her. And in the end, she filed for full custody in order to extort even more. I decided that I would give what I had offerred and went to mediation.

Both the mediator and her lawyer said this agreement is "Pie in the sky with whipped cream, cherries, and sprinkles" If you go to court you will get half. FINALLY she was able to take far more than she rightfully and legally dserved. But my lesson was during all this...


You cannot buy decency or respect. You cannot try to calm a raging sea when the sea iteself controls the weather that is buffetting it. And you cannot try to help someone who wants it all, but doesn't want your help.

I say this, because if I were to do it all over again, I would just go straight with the law. Not because of my pious thought about what she deserved and what she got. But because NOTHING that I tried to do mattered. She accepted it and still wanted more.

I got my children. She didn't really want them, just the money that they represented. Nothing has changed in the last year. You will most likely NOT be able to buy your children. I would just assert your rights as their father. That is MY feelings after having gone through it my way. The thing is... I can look myself in the mirror each morning and KNOW there is nothing more I could have done to reconcile our lives.

And there is NO price with which that peace of mind could be bought.

<small>[ February 11, 2004, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

Thanks, I'm thinking I'll calmly state that I will not accept anything less than 50/50 and add that I appreciate her obvious concern for the Boys. I don't think i need to respond to every threat, or angry statement.
I'm not concerned about the material things except that the boys should have a stable, financially sound circumstance.
She really resents authority.
Mike P

MikeP,
I know what you mean about the authority thing.

Just so you know, many people start out at a bargaining point, and not a final point. So if you tell her you want 1/2, she may think she can get you down to less.

And about her moving out of state, I can never leave this state without X's written approval. The state really tries to protect parental rights.

My X threatened to fight for full custody, then backed down to half (BTW he never spent time with the kids). After a custody evaluation, he only got 1/3, so all his fighting and posturing only resulted in less custody, and much more expense. Some people just want to fight - an entitlement mentality. Please do all you can to minimize the impact on your children. And I don't mean to avoid discussing the D, but more helping them through the emotional minefield so they can become healthy people.

MikeP-

I don't know your story but one thing really jumped uot at me...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Monday comes and she sees a flower truck in the driveway: Said she was all excited that had 'done something' </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounds to me like an EN that you might want to fill. as a FWP, flowers and cards were one eof the thtings that at first pi$$ed me off, but eventually turned my thought process around. Maybe you should just try doing something impulsive - just because - and see what her reaction is. If positive, then repeat in a week or two.

JMHO

Thanks -
Newly - I'm not much for posturing. She knows the eval process now as she is meeting with a lawyer. Unfortunately he's taking her at face value telling her she's 'sure to get house, car, cash, allimony, custody, etc...'. I've been very certain to provide more than my share of the household and child rearing duties including weekly cleaning of all bathrooms, daily dishes, class parties and event volenteering, etc. I'll have documented long term involvement to weigh on my behalf. Right now her intention is to avoid fight, but who knows what she'll do when the harsh light of reality sets in? I really do care for her, but she would put me in a no compromize position if she attempted to reduce my custody. I'll avoid the clasic LB's to strengthen the relationship and encourage reason and negotiation.

Kily - I agree THANK YOU. It is hard to decide what to do when someone invariably finds fault regardless of one's obvious intentions and efforts. She did ID this as a strong EN here. I've got some traditional Valentines day stuff squared away, but I think a more protracted bombardment is in order. I cleaned 'her' bathroom last night and wrote ValDay messages every foot or so on the fresh loo roll, It isn't easy with a pen! I'm thinking I'll pick out a couple more Cards. I'll also get a pound of Brie, sliced almonds, crackers, Champagne. I'm not thinking it is likely to get a romantic response but will demonstrate interest, and a willingness to invest myself in meeting her EN's. It's a bit discouraging to deal with someone who has never forgiven anyone for anything... Not even childhood slights! I'm going to make myself a worthy partner and see if she gets interested in persuing a relationship again. Then it will be up to her to face her demons or drown alone. THANKS both of you!!
All the best,
Mike

Good luck with that Mike. My wife said that as soon as I contacted a lawyer it was over, and she has been really turning up the heat blaming me for everything. She will never admit that she has ever done anything wrong, ever. It was always someone else's fault till I came into the picture. Now she had me. Not anymore! I feel the love I had for her dying within me. That is ok. I cant change her. I wont try anymore. I would rather take my chances with a lawyer. Bi Polar people need help!

That is fine that you are trying to put things back together. That is great that you want to keep your family together. It is a tuff job. I did that for about a year or so. There will come a time that she will do as her lawyer tells her. She will file for full custody and bargain down from that. If you want 50/50 they will say it is so you don't have to pay CS. They will say you were never involved with the kids. They will say a lot of stuff. 50/50 is hard for a man to get when the woman won't agree to it. The court system defaults in her favor and men have to fight up to 50 percent at best. Find out what your legal rights are. If you are sepatated, and there is no court order you are just as entitled to those children as she is. You are trying to patch things up, she will take advantage of that and try to trick you. Don't play games, know your legal rights and abide by them. Good luck.

Hired - I'm familiar with the behavior you describe. I'm going to do what I say I would when me married: Love Honor, Cherish... I'll make the best man I can be. If she's interested then we can begin a relationship, if not then she'll have to figure things out for herself. I'll do everything I can for the boys except be a bad example.
Good luck with your situation. You might consider reading Dobson's "Tough Love".
Mike P