My story is long and sordid, but the short version is this: Married for 12 together for 15, 3 kids; twins 3, and 10 yo. Through years (8-10?) of not meeting her emotional needs she has grown distant and had 4 affairs in the last 3 years. Now she has filed for divorce and we are only about 30 days away from the first opportunity for it to be final. I forgive her and understand why the A's happened and like many others, I am the one trying to piece back the marriage.

My dilemna (today) is this: I want badly to be able to LGALG (Let Go and Let God) but I am not sure if I really understand what that really means! I have called my pastor, but he was unavailable and I really need to talk this out so I came here. I want to know how to LGALG. I feel like I am lost, I don't know where to look for the signs that he may be sending. Last week I swore I saw several signs, and I did not feel like I ignored them, but they have yielded nothing. Is that the answer? Like a busy signal from God? "Sorry, I don't have an answer right now, try again later, G."
Help, I feel like I am at the end of my proverbial rope!!


r0uter

<small>[ February 18, 2004, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

router-

please forgive any misspelled words here. My keyboard is malfunctioining on me.

Okay, so you don't understand Let go and Let God. Neithher did I. It kind of came to me one night when I couldn't bear my load any longer and I thought that my pain was so great that I would never be whole.

At that time, I had been living alone for about 2 months at the height of my A. I was feeling the weight of thte world for I was going to night school, working a full time job, battling depressioin, struggling with the fears of living alone, fighting with my X, and detaching from OM because he wasn't going to let me "latch on" to him in order to fix me.

That weight was such a burden because I actually had the screwed up idea that I was responsible for everyone else and that I was the one that was balancing the world on my shoulders. i literally saw a vision of me as the hurculean figure holding this giant world in my hands.

As the pain overtook me, I cried like I had never cried before. I saw my life for what it was, the dark failure that I allowed it to become. Then I prayed. i was not a religious person and prayer was foreign to me. Regardless, I told my higher power that I needed help. That i couldn't carry this anymore.

the next thing I remember vividly is the image that i had of throwing this giant world up in the air. As I pictureed this in my mind, I started to feel things...I realized that i didn't need OM. I realized that I didn't need X. I realized that i could take care of me. I realized that no matter how much effort I put in to trying to make something happen, i really had NO CONTROL over the outcome.

That night I went to be completely empty. I was drained emotionally, physically, and spiritually. The next morning, I woke up as if it were any other day. As I began cleaning, I looked out at the ocean. suddenly I felt thise ewarmth in my heart that I had never felt before. The warmth was a circle that started emanating outward eventually throughout my whole body. For the first time in my life, the emptiness that had always been there was completely full. I knew that no matter what happened in the future, there was a highere power that loved me and would be there as long as I allow it.

i guess what I'm trying to convey to you by sharing this is that to this day, I still love my X. A deep part of me that doesn't want to be vulnerable holds that love for my x and that childish dream that we could make it work. In letting go, I still can feel and wish for things to happen, but instead of FORCING my wants and needs onto the situation, I can give it the room to develop the way that it is naturally supposed to happen. I listen to the messages that my higher power sends to me, and I do my best to live by them.

This post may paint me as a religious nut but truthfully, I'm just a humble unworthy person that made some very devastating choices before she started to listen to hereself.

I hope this helped you.

r0uter,

I've learned in order to let go and let God--

I must first realize what thing's I have control over--and what thing's I have no control over--

And those I have control over--I work on--and those I have no control over--I leave up to God to handle--or who ever else has that responsibility--

Have you read the book Boundaries?? If not--It might help you understand how to do this--more fully--

Thank you both for your replies. It always helps to hear someone elses views.

GWK,
I wish that you could speak directly to my WW. She carries so much guilt and shame with her that is encompasses her heart like a titanium shield. I thought that now that her affairs were out in the open we could communicate without all of the lies. I was wrong. She is still lying about stuff and it drives me crazy. She projects all of the blame on me, and I mean all of it. I have a good friend who also talks to my WW, she does not judge or condemn, but together when we talk we discover all kinds of lies and blame that she throws on me.
I don't think I can go on anymore like this. I know that I could not have come this far without God, and I need to let go more.

Thank you for the insight, I honestly believe that I have a better understanding of how to LGALG. I so desperately need his guidance and support right now.
I have been fasting all day waiting for a sign of what to do next.

Thanks again,

r0uter

router-

My email address is in my sig line. if she will, she can contact me, or you for that matter. No judgement from me, just my story to share...if she's willing.

edited to add:
If you are hanging at the end of your rope, let go...you may only be hanging two inches off the ground!

hugs-

<small>[ February 12, 2004, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: God-within-kily ]</small>

Thanks again!


I think it is time for me to tell her that she needs to move out. I cannot put up with the emotional drain anymore. I am going to ask her one more time to work with me on fix the marriage and moving forward. If she refuses I have already begun the Plan B letter. I am trying to be strong knowing that God is with me, but sometimes it seems like little consolation.


r0uter

Think about your situation like this:

Package all that is out of your control in an imaginary box. Put the lid on the and hand it over to God. Once you let go of what you can not control it becomes God's worry and doing that frees you to do what you can do to function and move forward.

Starving yourself won't get you the answers and will zap the strength you will need to proceed while God handles what you can't. You will be amazed!

Are we ever really in control?

We may think we are, but truly we aren't. I feel realizing that is the first true step to letting God take over.

From the time of birth to the time of death, what is it that we control? We cannot control others, we cannot control the weather, we cannot control what happens to us or others, we cannot control day and night and most of the time we cannot even control ourselves. When exactly are we in control again?

Run to God, seek refuge and shelter in his loving arms. He is the only one who can truly help you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Gave control to God yesterday. Then had a talk with STBXW, because it felt like the thing to do.
Tried to get the message across that I am here for her, and that I would like another chance to work things out before the D goes through. Tried to convey a non-threatening message, and let her see a non-threatening environment. I tried to make an "Emotionally Safe" environment for her. I think that I may have made a little progress at least in increasing her understanding of my position.
I will use the rest of this weekend to try to guage her emotional temperature, and then most likely move to a LRT and Plan B.
But, as much as possible I am letting God drive the boat. I will work on me and let Him have her and our relationship.
Had a great talk with OS last night after catching him in a lie. Seized the opportunity to teach him a lesson about blessings and life in general.

Valentine's Day tomorrow, Oh Boy. (much sarcasm there)
I bought her a Bear, but now I am not sure whether or not to give it to her. I used to buy her stuffed animal all the time, and I was hoping it would remind her of that time. We'll see.

Thanks again for all of the help and support, having a better day today!


r0uter

Well, V-Day came and went. Overall not a very good weekend.

Went Skiing with my OS Sat, that was a good thing! But, Sat. started off on a bad note. Son and I got into an argument and before I had a chance to correct the situation, she steps in and tries to intervene! I kindly asked her to step out, and she got mad. "I'm tired of listening to you two argue!" I tried to tell her that until S and I get on better terms, to try and back-off and let me work it out. Anyway, that went by and I ended up settling it with S, but took a few steps back with W. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Then on Sunday, things blew up! While getting ready for church, I asked her about court date on Tues. she starts getting irate! I told her there was no reason to yell, I just needed to know so that I could plan my time at work. After a little heated discussion, I started to lose it! I told her that I thought that she had no intention of trying to fix the marriage, that there was no doubt in her mind and that this was all a game she was playing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Of course, that quickly blew up in my face, and she started yelling at me. Then our S walks in to use the bathroom and I walked out. When I left he turned to his mom and said, "Why do you always yell at Dad? He is not yelling at you?" Well, as you might imagine this sparked a whole new fit of rage. her accusing me of putting the S in the middle. But, truthfully, as much as I have wanted to ask him about things between her and OM, I NEVER HAVE! I told her thats, but I don't think she believes me. oh well, nothing I can do but tell the truth. (Funny thing is, he told our friends that it was unfair that OM couldn't go skiing last week, because I was there and don't like him, but he never asked me why I don't like him, and I didn't offer! If he knew why I don't like him, he would be extremely upset with his mother!!!)
Well, one thing lead to another and she told me that she didn't want to do anything with me, and that I could take the kids to church, to which I responded, no you take them, I am going to do my own thing. My own thing as it turns out was to go to church anyway, but in my own vehicle since she didn't want to do anything with me. When we got home, she questioned why I did that. "Awfully nice of you to not go to church with your children." (I helped with the kids as soon as they got to church, and helped her put them back in the truck when she was leaving though.) I reminded her of what she had said and she denied it!! of course.
Anyway, I ended up apologizing, but the damage was done. When we got to a certain point in arguing, she said, in frustration, "Fine, you win! You're gonna get what you want, I will take care of things and cancel the lawyer and the D on Tuesday! Are you happy now? You're gonna get what you want. But, you will still sleep downstairs and MY room (That's how she refers to OUR room now) is off limits! Don't even think about sleeping in my bed! Blah, blah, blah, and more angry stuff..."
I simply told her that was not what I wanted if that was the way she felt about it. Besides, I know that that would not result in NC between her and OM(pl). And that is not what I want. I want us to begin working on us! We both have things in ourselves that we need to work on, separately, but we can work on the marriage at the same time. I know that I can make her happy again, I just need the chance to prove it!!

One side note - She got the bear on Fri. nite and liked it alot, I think she was genuinely touched. It was the first time in a long time that I had given her something and she had come to me with a smile, kissed me on the cheek and said, "Thank you, it is really nice (Or cute)."

So, two steps (At least) backward this weekend, but we are going to sit and talk tonight about where to go from here. I still really want to fix the marriage, and I think a large part of her does too, but she has to convince herself of that!

OK, one more side - I think it is very ironic and Hypocritical of her to be joining in with me, and actually being more severe than me, on teaching my son a lesson about lying!!! Is that guilt? Shame?
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." I know that I am not without sin, but I don't make a habit of lying either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />


r0uter

<small>[ February 16, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

r0uter,

there is a thread on the EN board on communication and conflict resolution skills--

maybe you could take a look at that--read through it and see if it would help you work out the issues without attacking each other--

Thank you TR,

I have printed the entire thread and will offer it to her to read. Hopefully, she will be receptive, but I will not hold my breath.
I have not done a very good job lately of doing any kind of plan. I have spent way too much time trying to convince her that she should cancel the D, and stay and work on the marriage. I know better, I just can't control myself. I feel like if I can just get her to go to couseling with me, we can work it out.
She started last night to write a letter to me explaining her feelings. The letter starts by saying that it may take her days to finish the letter. Now, I am torn by a couple of things about this...
1) Do I respond? And if so, do I respond to each portion or only to the end product?
2) This is the first time she has really opened up about her feelings in a long time. The letter is not harsh or angry, and for that I am glad. But, I am unsure how to feel about the letter. I don't know if I am happy that she is letting some of her feelings show, or if I am upset because she is bringing up things from the past that she is blaming me for that I don't feel I had any control over. Is this a good sign, that she is able to express her feelings in this way?
3) I am happy and hurt that she has become more honest in the last few days about things that she has been doing. The hurt is that she has been doing them with OM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> But at least she admits it instead of trying to deceive. Don't get me wrong, she wouldn't say anything if I didn't ask, but at least she doesn't deny it! Could these be considered baby-steps, even if she doesn't realize these things could advance our relationship? Or am I making more of it than is there?


AAAAUUUUUGGHHHHHH!!!!!!! I am so frustrated and I feel totally alone! I know I am not, but that is how I feel.

She admitted yesterday that every time she sees me at the house that she feels guilt and has a hard time dealing with that. I have tried to help her understand that she doesn't have to feel that way because I forgive her, and so does God! I try to convey this without making it sound as if she is wrong to feel that way too. I am very careful about that! Is it she who has to forgive herself?


frustrated,

r0uter

^^^^Bump^^^^

Router,
Don't give that thread to her, she will not take it kindly. Its's DJ, that you are trying to teach her about communicating and will spark only more arguements/fights.

You need to go back and read Plan A, that is where you need to start. Forget any talk about the divorce/separation as these are only flash points.

IMO, it sounds like you are trying too hard. You have to let God work his plan in his time.

Hang in!

RWD,

I would agree with you except that she has noted that communication, or the lack there of, is the biggest problem in our marriage and has been for some time.

I do agree with you that I need to back down and not try so hard. My plan A is not good right now, but I am changing that.

Thanks for the help,


r0uter

router,
Plan A is hard when you are hurting. I didn't do a very good Plan A either.

Plan A is about making YOU look better to spouse, so they feel safe in coming home.

Funny thing...

I just re-read Dr. Harley's description of Plan A, and then went over Cerri's do's and don'ts, I don't think I am doing as bad as I had thought. The part that I thought I was doing wrong was meeting EN's. But, it is clear that I can meet EN as long as I feel comfortable about it. I would like to do more, but I am not sure how it would be received. I would like to tell her I love her everyday, is this acceptable if it feels ok to me?

The thing that I can see that I am not doing well is talking about the affair and ending it. I kind of went into a LRT without trying to convince her to send him off. (I'd like to do the send off...off the edge of the earth!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) I will start this part again.
The good news in all of this is that I have kept my sanity without A-D's and that I still have a lot of love for her. Not sure why, but I don't feel right now that I have lost much, if any, love for her. Which should allow me to stay in Plan A a little longer, but I will be careful to get out when I feel the love start to slip away.
Just hope this works before the D is final!


r0uter

Something else I remember from our conversation from the other night...

She says that she feels like our marriage never had the foundation that it needed to survive. Is that a cop out? She says that if we were meeting each others emotional needs then, that we wouldn't have grown apart. But, we were meeting each others needs, or at least to the best of our abilities based on what we knew about it.
She has always been (was) very good about supporting me, and doing things for me. She was not very good at meeting my need for appreciation and admiration. But, how could she know that those were important to me if I never was able to tell her? Sheesh, I didn't really realize it until I read it here!
I have always been somewhat controlling (almost subliminally) and selfish. But, I have always given her what she has needed as far as the house and kids are concerned. I have not been good at Attention and affection for the last few years, and our communication has suffered at the hands of our busy, not-well-prioritize lives. Had I known a few years ago that paying more attention to her and giving her a little more affection each day would keep her from straying, believe me, I would have ponied up!

So how do I convince her of that now!?

minute-by-minute...


r0uter

<small>[ February 18, 2004, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

Alright here is my latest burning question:

Is it alright for me to ask my STBXW to tell OM to bug-off at least until the divorce is final, out of respect for our marriage?

Just got hung up on by her, and she is seriously ripped!

She called back, and she is fighting mad! I made my request in a non-LB way and just calmly asked her if out of respect for our marriage and me, would she please tell him to stay away until at least the divorce is final. Well, now I am an a***ole and and a liar and a s***head. So, I calmly asked her why she felt the need to resort to name calling. She goes into this tear about how she has to ask my permission to do everything, and how I want to take everything away from her. How she has to act a certain way, talk a certain way, can't talk to certain people, and all that jazz. But I have only ever told her that she SHOULDN'T talk to the OMen. I don't think that my request was unreasonable, and I did leave her room to say no, if she wanted to. But she thinks that my reason for asking her to do that is to fix the marriage....wrong! I was born at night, but not last night! I know that this will not fix the marriage, in fact, I know that it will make it worse for a time while she goes through the anger and withdrawal of telling OM to back-off. I also know, and remind her often, that we have a lot of work to do together before the marriage could even be considered on the road to recovery. First things first, that's all. She says, "Fine, once again it will be your way, and you will see that this won't fix our marriage. This won't make things all better. And then you can see that it is US! That it's not all the other things, it's all about us!" I should have said that I was glad that she realized that, but that would have sounded condescending. She has a great knack when she is angry for turning everything that I say into a personal attack on her. While I do agree that sometimes I drop a barb, and try to pass it off as a joke, most of what I am saying is about the problems, not the people. I think I did a pretty good job of not letting her drag me into an unecessary argument, and I did a pretty good job of avoiding LB's. Maybe that is part of why she is so upset.
Now she is back on this "We can't live together anymore, and pretty soon, you will be court ordered to get out!" But at first it was, "I will be moving out, I have a place to stay, and I will make arrangements." When I said, "Fine, I'll help you pack, what about the kids?" She asked what I thought. So....as closely as I can recall, I recounted what her lawyer had said, "When one party is at the house with the children, the other will leave." Except that I said, "You can stay with the kids until I get home and then you can go stay wherever you will be staying." Well! That simply won't do! What the hell was I thinking? How could I inconvenience her that way? That was in essence what the lawyer had said, so why was she having a problem with that?

I am trying so hard to be the person that she wants me to be, but she refuses to see it, and it is wrenching my heart like a vise!!

Lately she has been right, all we do is argue. I have tried to take a different stance and not get into the arguments with her, but she tries so hard to drag me in, and sometimes she wins. She always make it seem like it is my fault, and all about me. But the way I see it, it is all about her! So why can't we just compromise and make it all about us!?


Thanks for letting me vent!!!^^^^^^


r0uter

<small>[ February 19, 2004, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

Well, she told me that since I made a request of her, she could make a request of me, and that was that one of us should leave the house. So, I said ok, then and that I would help her pack. (I may have said some of this in a previous post, not sure.) Then I said, "No, I will leave." No response from her.

That afternoon, she called from work and said she was going out with her friends, I said have a good time. When she got home, I had my bags packed so I could leave, and I was prepared to leave too. she looked at the bags and said with a snicker, "What's this?" I told her that I had packed to leave, and she said, just go downstairs and go to sleep! ? So, I did!
Then the next day, she said that she was going to go to her parent's house to sleep and never did, and the subject hasn't come up again. I am really not sure what to think of that, but I will take anything I can get right now.

She did bring up the fact that, she says, that she honored my request. Or as she says it, "Well you got what you wanted, ok?! Now leave me alone and you will see, it wasn't about him, it's about us!" Well, duh! I know that. She says that she will go to counseling if I set it up so I have resumed the search for a good pro-marriage counselor. Wish me luck.

r0uter