I sincerely need some advice today, and a shoulder .. as I feel like I'm losing it! I've been crying all morning .. and can't understand what I should do!

My Story:

This is a second marriage for us both. I'm 52 on Thursday and he's 56. We've been married for 7 1/2 years. He is my LIFE! I love him with all my heart and soul! I have never been unfaithful and never would be. I've been the best wife I know how to for him. My love for him is deep and abiding and when I took my wedding vows for better or worse, sickness and health, I meant them with all my soul!

He hasn't been a very good husband. He's very unsupportive emotionally, and doesn't give me the place in his life I should have. He's not been affectionate and hasn't been there for me when I needed him (sickness, emotionally, etc.).

His first wife has told me he was the same with her. His family think that I'm the bad guy and I've not accepted him as he is, and that I don't love him if I won't stand by him as he is, no matter how unloving that may be.

He TRULY believes he is being a good husband, or that he's being the best HE can be. He was raised in a broken home, with his Dad in prison most of his life for molesting his own daughters. He's never seen a loving husband and wife to model after. There was very little to no physical contact or showing of love and affection in his childhood. He's stubborn and set in his ways ... and thinks he does not have to change a thing about himself to make our marriage better.

His thoughts are that we either are compatible or we're not. He tells me over and over that he could and would do better as a husband, if I would trust him more, and accept him for what and who he is. He tells me that I only like 2-3 things out of 100 of his character, and that he's tired of not being liked or trusted, and he wants out.

I HAVE (much more in the last few months) looked closely at what he's saying, to be very sure that I'm not missing something. What I see is that anytime I try to tell him what I need to feel loved, what any woman would need to feel loved and cared for, as a wife .. he balks. He doesn't seem to care about those things ... but just that I'm asking for too much, and things he can't give me, things he's not capable of.

I don't agree with that ... because why couldn't he, why wouldn't he .. if he cared about me in any way? He does tell me that there IS love left, just not the same as it was in the beginning.

There is really no solid proof or indication of an affair ... and he's told me there is NO other woman .. he could care less about any other women right now ... but it's the fact that he WON'T even try to bend or adjust himself to make me feel loved or to show me that he loves me that's making me so confused and angry and hurt!

In the past I've raged and hurt him with words. I realized that .. and apologized. I've also changed that part of me, and have not done so in quite awhile now. But he has been so neglectful and distant, then finding out what "I" need, my most important EN's ... which are Affection and Communication (just plain showing me I'm SOMETHING to him.. that I'm important in his life at ALL), yet won't even TRY.

This morning, before leaving for work ... I asked him to call me when he got to work. His response?
Why? Don't you trust me again? I want a divorce! I'm tired of this .. it's over for me! I want out of the marriage, I want a divorce!

I've been crying all morning .. he's my life! I love him so! I'm tired ... and exhausted from trying ... but my love is so deep, that I don't know what to do, or where to go .. without him!

What would you do? What should I do? I know if it's truly over, I can't stay in this area... I can't be near him .. knowing I can't see him! I'd want to leave the state ... lose myself .. cause I don't care about anything, if I lose him!

Dee

P.S. Wanted to add a few things:

I've read the book "His Needs Her Needs" and read all of Dr. Harleys' concepts on the board twice. We've filled out the questionnaire, and his greatest need is "Admiration" which I've given with all my heart, but it's hard to give trust, when the way he's acting daily is like there IS another woman, or that he's lost his love for me.

The reason I'm still somewhat mistrustful of him, as he claims ... is because I'm trying with all my heart here ... to find a reason for his loss of love and pulling away. I mean, if there IS no other woman, why then? Can this just happen from the hurt I caused when I DID rage and call him names? Could I have caused such a deep wound, that he's unable to forgive or heal from that? Why then can I get past so much hurt he's caused me, and want to make things better?

Dee

<small>[ March 29, 2004, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: dd50 ]</small>

DEAR DEE:

I'M 51 AND THE SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME 5 YEARS AGO. HUBBY CAME HOME FROM WORK AND TOLD ME, I DON'T LOVE YOU ANYMORE, I WANT A DIVORCE. HE SAID THERE WASN'T ANYONE ELSE...STUPID ME..I BELIEVED HIM.

YOUR SITUATION AND MINE ARE SO MUCH ALIKE. YOU WILL BE CRYING YOUR EYES OUT FOR DAYS, EVEN WEEKS, UNTIL YOU REALIZE THAT HE'S THE ONE THAT'S NOT HAPPY.

DOES HE HAVE AN ADDICTION PROBLEMM..TOO? ALCOHOL, DRUGS, BOTH? MINE WAS ALCOHOL..STILL IS.

HERE'S WHAT I DID. I WENT TO COUSNELING FOR ME, NOT US. HE WASN'T INTERESTED, BECAUSE IN HIS MIND, THERE WASN'T ANYTHING 'WRONG WITH US," HE JUST WANTED OUT.

UNTIL I MADE UP MY MIND THAT IT WASN'T A ME THING, AND IT WAS AN US THING AND STARTED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I WANTED IN MY LIFE, AND WHAT I WOULD AND NOT ACCEPT, DID I FEEL BETTER FOR MYSELF.

I ASKED HIM TO LEAVE. THEN AFTER I FOUND OUT THERE WAS ANOTHER WOMAN, AND THIS WAS THE 2ND TIME THAT I FOUND OUT ABOVE, I WASN'T GOING TO ACCEPT THAT AGAIN, AND TOLD HIM THAT. HE SAID HE WAS SORRY, BUT HE STILL WASN'T IN LOVE WITH ME, WASN'T FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS. BEATS ME WHY HE STAYED FOR SO LONG.

I THOUGHT I COULDN'T LIVE WITHOUT HIM, THOUGHT HE WAS THE GREATEST HUSBAND, AND I WAS HAPPY;...WRONG!!

ONCE I DECIDED THAT I WAS GOING TO DO FOR ME, AND NOT US, MY LIFE FELL RIGHT INTO PLACE. I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU THAT IT'S GOING TO BE AN EASY ROAD TO TRAVEL...BUT COUNSELING REALLY HELPED FOR ME....THE ALCHOL ADDICTION WAS HARD TO DEAL WITH, BUT WHAT THE HECK, I DID DEAL WITH IT FOR SO LONG...ONCE I DECIDED THAT I WASN'T GOING TO ACCEPT IT ANYMORE, MY LIFE WAS LIKE A GIANT ROCK WAS LIFTED OFF MY HEAD.

I WENT OUT WITH FRIENDS, WOMAN FRIENDS...DECIDED TO TAKE A BREAK FROM MEN, AND ONLY SAW FRIENDS ON A FRIENDLY, FRIENDS OUT KIND OF THING. HAD A MALE BEST FRIEND TO JUST TALK TO, NO SEX, JUST TALKING. ACTUALLY HE WAS MY EX'S BEST FRIEND...AND HE CONSTANTLY TOLD ME TO GO BACK WITH HIM, BUT I WAS DETERMINED THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO.

THAT WAS 5 YEARS AGO. IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, I HAVE DONE THINGS FOR ME. I MADE GOALS, PROFESSIONAL GOALS, PERSONAL GOALS AND FINANCIAL GOALS, REACHABLE ONES, ONES THAT MADE ME FEEL GOOD ABOUT ME.

MY PERSONALITY CHANGED, I'M SO MUCH MORE FUN NOW, I GO OUT TO LUNCHES, DINNERS, AND SEE MY OLDER CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN SO MUCH MORE NOW.

I WAS DEVASTED FOR SO LONG, BUT UNTIL MY EX AND I SAT DOWN AND SAID WHAT WE NEEDED TO SAY TO EACH OTHER, WHAT WE BOTH WANTED AND DIDN'T WANT, WE BOTH WENT ON WITH OUR LIVES.

AS I LOOK BACK NOW, I WAS A VERY GOOD ACTOR, I THOUGHT I WAS HAPPY. BUT I REALLY WASN'T. I DID FOR THE KIDS FIRST, HUBBY SECOND AND MY CAREER THIRD.

NOW, MY EX'S BEST FRIEND, TURNED OUT TO BE MY BEST FRIEND, AND NOW FIANCE.

THE 2ND TIME AROUND IN MARRIAGE, I HAVE EXPRESSED WHAT I WILL AND WILL NOT ACCEPT IN OUR MARRIAGE, AND INFIDELITY IS TOP ON THE LIST. HONESTY AND TRUST FOLLOW NEXT.

YOU AND I ARE IN THE SAME AGE GROUP. MAYBE COUNSELING WILL HELP YOU. I WENT FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS, UNTIL I FELT COMFORTABLE DEALING WITH MY FEELINGS AND EMOTIONAL WELL BEING.

I GOT GREAT SUPPORT FROM MY OLDER CHILDREN, AND THE BEST THING I EVER DID WAS GET A DIVORCE. MY LIFE IS SO MUCH FOR THE BETTER.

I REALLY COULD NOT SEE TRYING TO GLUE MY MARRIAGE BACK TOGETHER, ESPECIALLY SINCE I WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT WANTED IT.

WHAT GOOD IS A ONE SIDED RELATIONSHIP?

I NEVER LOOKED AT ANOTHER MAN, NOR THOUGHT OF CHEATING ON MY HUSBAND.

I THINK WE JUST GREW APART FOR SO MANY YEARS AND HE WAS THE BRAVE ONE THAT NOTICED IT BEFORE I DID.

I'M GLAD THAT HE DID...IT MADE US BOTH BETTER PEOPLE...HE GOT MARRIED 3 MONTHS AFTER OUR DIVORCE WAS FINAL...I EVEN CALLED HIM UP AND WISHED HIM GOOD LUCK, SINCE WE COULDN'T MAKE OUR 28 YEAR MARRIAGE WORK, I HOPED HE COULD BE SO MUCH HAPPIER THAN WE WERE. I SEE THEM AT GRANDCHILDREN FUNCTIONS, WE TALK FRIENDLY, AND WE BOTH HAVE MOVED ON.

I'M A FIRM BELIEVER THAT IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT YOUR LIFE, YOU WILL SEE THAT IF ONE SPOUSE DOESN'T WANT TO WORK AT IT, AND IS WILLING TO STAY IN IT FOR THE LONG HAUL, YOU WILL JUST WASTE YOUR TIME AND GET A BROKEN HEART ALL OVER AGAIN.

SOUNDS LIKE YOU BOTH AREN'T HAPPY...AND YOU ARE EXPIENCING A BROKEN HEART. DIDN'T SEE IT COMING, DID YOU? NEITHER DID I...AND THAT IS WHAT HURTS THE MOST.

COUNSELING IS GREAT, IT WILL REALLY HELP YOU COPE WITH YOUR BROKEN HEART AND WITH THE 'NOW WHAT" SYNDROME THAT WILL COME NEXT.

CHAULK THIS UP TO A TERRIFIC LEARNING EXPERIENCE. OPEN UP YOUR HEART AND MIND TO NEW THINGS.

I THINK CHANGE IS A TERRIFIC CHALLENGE AND I LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND YOU WILL DO FINE.

GOOD LUCK.

A HEALED "BROKEN HEART"

Healed,

I don't know ... I read your story and don't see how you took it all so matter of factly. Maybe it's because it's been awhile for you, I don't know ... but this man is MY LIFE! I can not see myself going on without him! And as for him seeing the truth ... that he isn't happy and letting me know that ... that's not how I see it!

I guess marriage is so much more to me! It's a lifetime, not until one or the other feels like giving up. I mean, for Better or Worse is what the vows say .. that's through EVERYTHING, and that's not giving up .. no matter what.

By the way, I'm just being passionate about how I feel ... hope it's not coming across as getting upset at you, cause it's not.

I can't even begin to feel that this will be a 'learning' experience! I don't WANT to have to lose my husband and marriage to learn, I've gone through enough hurt and lessons in life .. more than I care to! I've been married once before to an alcoholic, had 2 small sons ... and put up with his drinking, neglect and emotional abuse for 12 years. I married my current H for life, not until things got a little rough.

We just talked at lunch, and I was telling him how I feel about him not putting me first in his life .. not making me feel loved or safe with him.
He claims he shouldn't have to 'stand up' to his family for me ... he doesn't see how they treat me, he only sees what he wants to see, and that's more "ME" not being friendly to THEM ... instead of the other way around. He hardly ever mentions my name to them anymore, and only goes without me.
I swear they don't even know I have 2 sons! My sons are never talked about! They talk all about THEIR children, grandchildren, etc. ... and my H never volunteers information about ME or my children!

He started getting mad at me on the phone, about how I insult and degrade his family ... I told him, excuse me .. but "I" am your family!!!

I know you can't make somebody love you ... but I don't see what I've done to earn this kind of treatment! IF there IS another woman ... it would at least make SOME sense of things, because then I can understand him trying to make me look so bad .. to justify his actions and thoughts, and to push me away .. but other than that, it's just not making any sense!??

Each time he's at his brother's house without me, I've asked (on the spur of the moment), if I can come over .. and he's said it was fine, so there's nobody there he's hiding. He doesn't really go much of anywhere without me, he has no cell phone, and the computer has no porno, suspicious emails or anything on it. So there is really no true evidence or even suspicions of a woman ...

Dee

So, where are your two sons living now? Do you see them very much?

DEE:

NO, I DIDN'T TAKE IT THAT YOU WERE UPSET WITH ME. I WAS JUST TELLING YOU MY STORY. YES, I WAS IN IT FOR LIFE, BUT WHEN ONE GIVES UP AND DOESN'T WANT YOU AND YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN THROWN AWAY LIKE A PEICE OF GARBAGE, YOU TEND TO NOT WANT THAT PERSON BACK.

YES, IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME FOR ME. BUT I FEEL DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU DO RIGHT NOW. I FELT THAT I COULDN'T GO ON WITHOUT HIM. BUT THEN I LOOKED AT WHAT I HAD AND WASN'T HAPPY, EITHER, SO I MOVED ON.

I WOULDN'T PUT UP WITH A HUSBAND THAT TREATED ME LIKE YOURS DOES. THAT'S ME, MAYBE THAT'S NOT YOU.

YOU HAVE TO BE HAPPY, IF YOU AREN'T KEEPING THE FAIRY TALE OF BEING MARRIED, JUST TO BE MARRIED, ISN'T WORTH IT.

I HOPE YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND CAN WORK THINGS OUT, BUT FROM WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, HE'S NOT TRYING AT ALL, BUT YOU SEEM TO BE. SORRY, DEE, BUT IT SOUNDS ONE SIDED TO ME, JUST LIKE MY MARRIAGE WAS AT THE END. NO MATTER WHAT I DID WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH.

THERE ALWAYS IS SOMETHING IN THE WINGS, WHETHER YOU FIND IT OUT OR NOT. IF THERE ISN'T, THEN WHY WOULDN'T THE SPOUSE WANT TO WORK THINGS OUT?

I SURE HOPE I'M WRONG WITH YOUR SITUATION.

I WISH YOU NOTHING BUT THE BEST.

A HEALED BROKEN HEART

BROKEN HEART,

Would you please turn off the “CAPS LOCK” key on your keyboard.
It makes it difficult to read when it is all in capital letters.

Thanks!
Chris

......and all caps means "shouting".

Thanks for understanding as there are times where Caps ARE important. It helps to make the post more of a coversation.

Thanks for understanding,

Pegasus

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by baba2:
<strong> So, where are your two sons living now? Do you see them very much? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Baba,

Both sons are still in Seattle, but the oldest is moving to NYC in 1 week. I'm in upstate, NY ... so he'll be closer to me IF I stay here. I'm not sure still what I'm doing ... just know that if this doesn't work out ... I'm not sure I can stay in NY, I'm thinking either Pennsylvania or Florida.

PA because there's a small town called "Bethlehem" that's very close to NYC, yet not nearly as expensive to live ... and Florida, because I LOVE the ocean, and it would be soothing, all though I hate humidity and not sure about cost of living there.

No, I don't see my sons very often. My oldest e-mails me here and there, but the youngest had his phone shut off, luckily he just got accepted on SSI and will be getting his first big check soon. I'm not sure when I'll see him, as he's not ready to move from Seattle yet .. but he's considering it in the near future.

Why do you ask?

Dee

NO, I DIDN'T TAKE IT THAT YOU WERE UPSET WITH ME. I WAS JUST TELLING YOU MY STORY. YES, I WAS IN IT FOR LIFE, BUT WHEN ONE GIVES UP AND DOESN'T WANT YOU AND YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN THROWN AWAY LIKE A PEICE OF GARBAGE, YOU TEND TO NOT WANT THAT PERSON BACK.

I understand what you're saying ... I guess that's a problem (?) for me, that the way H is treating me, many women would be GONE by now, and leave dust ... but then ... many women wouldn't, so I guess I'm one who can't just yet. Not exactly sure why ... all though it's much of the love I have for him ... it's also determination and 'standing' for my marriage.

YES, IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME FOR ME. BUT I FEEL DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU DO RIGHT NOW. I FELT THAT I COULDN'T GO ON WITHOUT HIM. BUT THEN I LOOKED AT WHAT I HAD AND WASN'T HAPPY, EITHER, SO I MOVED ON.

Guess I'm just not ready to move on yet ... funny, I'm really exhausted from trying, and I'm really angry at him for putting this all on me, or most of it ... yet I still stand and fight.??

I WOULDN'T PUT UP WITH A HUSBAND THAT TREATED ME LIKE YOURS DOES. THAT'S ME, MAYBE THAT'S NOT YOU.

I hear you, I do ... and I'm sure there will come a day when I give up too, but I guess that's not yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

YOU HAVE TO BE HAPPY, IF YOU AREN'T KEEPING THE FAIRY TALE OF BEING MARRIED, JUST TO BE MARRIED, ISN'T WORTH IT.

I'm certainly NOT thinking of a fairy tale. I'm seriously trying to hold on to what Satan is trying to rip apart. He HATES marriage and God HATES divorce ... so it makes perfect sense that there's a WAR going on in our marriage, and it's not JUST between my H and I!

I HOPE YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND CAN WORK THINGS OUT, BUT FROM WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, HE'S NOT TRYING AT ALL, BUT YOU SEEM TO BE. SORRY, DEE, BUT IT SOUNDS ONE SIDED TO ME, JUST LIKE MY MARRIAGE WAS AT THE END. NO MATTER WHAT I DID WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH.

Yes, I agree ... it seems I can't do anything right, and he does NOT take responsibility for what he's doing ... and if anything, THAT'S what's going to do it in for me, eventually, if he doesn't get it together in his own mind, and if even hearing it from a counselor won't do it, then I guess nothing will, except for God, and even THEN he has to listen.

THERE ALWAYS IS SOMETHING IN THE WINGS, WHETHER YOU FIND IT OUT OR NOT. IF THERE ISN'T, THEN WHY WOULDN'T THE SPOUSE WANT TO WORK THINGS OUT?

I hear you, and I'm sure it makes sense ... but I'm sure it's not ALWAYS a woman. For this situation ... unless he's hiding it WAY well, and I see no way he can ... since he's always open with me and there's no lapse of time away or unexplained ... he's not even taking care of himself, no new clothes, NO clean underwear and STILL doesn't take showers very often ... it just doesn't seem like it's a woman .. but his shattered ego and immaturity more than anything else.

I SURE HOPE I'M WRONG WITH YOUR SITUATION.

Thank you Healed ... so do I. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugs,
Dee

Just some updates:

After a hairy morning and lunch talk on the phone, H did skip a CPR class from work and come home instead to take me out to dinner. Only a local diner, but he DID come home and take me.

Talked nothing of R while eating. After eating we went to store, then came home. In car at home, I asked to talk for a bit. He seemed annoyed ... but agreed.

I asked if he had anything to say first. He said no ... so I just mentioned to him that I had NO reason to divorce him by law or God, and neither did he ... that if we got the proper help, I feel things could be worked through. I said I felt we BOTH had to work on this and put effort into it, it couldn't just be ME. I also told him that I loved him with all my heart ... and that I took our vows VERY seriously and that so much of the world just walks away when things get tough, and it makes for allot of hurt and broken hearts, and things aren't all that great on the other side.

When I was finished, he said that he still wanted TIME and space alone. When I questioned why that was necessary, when sometimes 'space' can do more damage than good, he said because he felt that there hadn't been enough time gone by that we've been apart from each other and the tension and fighting ... to make a difference. He said he wanted to be able to have the freedom of doing things he likes and enjoys without the hassle of answering to me, of having to 'check in' with me every time. Hmmmmm???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Not sure how I feel about that statement???

I told him there were 'reasons' that I sometimes have a problem with him going places without me, and doing things without me, and he questioned what those were ... but as HE knows and WE know, that's an area that we can't talk about without a counselor ... cause we always end up getting into a heated discussion when we go it alone, so I told him I'd rather save that for counseling. He got upset at that ... but I know better, and we NEVER get anywhere talking about it alone.

NOW ... we went into the house, and relaxed a bit.
I mentioned to him that we could have sex now, that I've stopped my period. I mentioned that I'll probably be tired early .. so if he were going to take a shower, it should be soon. He went onto the computer ... and was on there for about 1/2 hour. I got a cup of tea .. and just mentioned it (lovingly) again. He stayed on the computer for another 1/2 hour. Just to mention here: he does not do any porn on puter, he's always just looking at sports, I know .. cause he has everthing right up there on the screen, computer is in the dining room, there's no hiding .. and besides .. I've checked all files and areas, as I know how .... and there's nothing.

I was getting tired, so I just told him that if he wasn't interested that was fine ... but we hadn't had sex for 3 weeks due to bleeding ... and it WOULD be nice.

He then SLOWLY proceeded to get undressed and take the shower. UGH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Some of you may completely dissagree with this next step and get upset at me ... well, "I" felt I wanted to do it, so please don't judge. I offered to have a 'fantasy' with him ... as it was for me too. He came up with one ... and all though I didn't think I could do it well, I feel I did quite well!

After, he got up, cleaned up ... and got under blankets alone and proceeded to watch tv! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

We don't sleep in the same bed ... because of my back, I sleep on the couch .. and his bed is in the same room ... so I wasn't sure he wanted me in bed with him. I sat on the couch to see, and nope .. he just started watching tv!

I asked him how he rated my performance on the fantasy .. and he gave me a 7!!! What?? Thanks allot! Don't ya know you ALWAYS give your wife a 10! LOL!! He said I wasn't as 'real' as I should have been??? Well, I said .. leave the money on the table .. geesh!

I also mentioned that I hadn't had an orgasm, because I was concentrating on him, and I would like one later ... please. He seemed a bit annoyed but said ok. Later? NOPE .. nothing, no mention of it, no proposal. I wasn't going to ask, because I have too many times in the past .. and I'm tired of having to 'ask' for sex.

Went to sleep.

This morning I climb into bed with him ... with just my short nighty on ... I cuddled ... I snuggled .. I nuzzled. NOTHING! Huh???

After a bit, I got up and told him I guess he wasn't interested in fulfilling me. He got MAD, as usual! UGH!

I explained that I was hurt .. angry and dissapointed .. many "I" statements. I also told him he really needed to take a look at HIS part in the problems in this marriage ... on the way to work ... look into the rearview mirror! Maybe he should try the 'side' mirror, as things appear LARGER than they are! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

He came to kiss me goodbye later, and I waited for an apology ... nothing! I asked if he wanted to say anything ... THEN he said .. with a MEAN face and annoyed attitude, "I'M SORRY" ... in a gruff voice ... well thank you .. but I'm NOT excepting that! Geesh!

Am I wrong here???

Just some thoughts ...
Dee

Dear All:

Sorry about the all caps..didn't realize that it means shouting...I wasn't shouting...just easier to read for me.. bad eyes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

DD50: I wish you nothing but the best.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I guess I was where you were at, and I got fed up and decided to move on, instead of crying. Believe me, Dee, it took me a long time to make that decision. But I'm happier now.

I was trying to convey the fact that there is happiest after a broken heart, thus...a healed...broken heart..

A. H. Br. Heart

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I wrong here??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i hate to say it, but i would react exactly the same way. . .

your manipulations are getting the best of you. .

STOP being MANIPULATIVE!!!

do you understand what manipulative is?? because you are so there, its no wonder that he is running away. . .

wiftty

I am with wifty here.

You are really manipulative here.

And in reading your first post on this thread, you say that you love him with all your heart but he hasn't been a good husband...It's also your second marriages and you got same info from wifey no. 1.

I don't get any of this.

I think this might not be the right forum since 1)you're still living together and neither has formally filed for divorce and 2)you're in a really different place than us here.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I swear it felt like I was reading something a 20 year old would write...

When I post here, I see what I wrote and sometimes I get a different perspective after. Are you able to see how the guy might be running away right now and why?

I suggest reading the entire suggestion list from TooMuchCoffeeMan and his garage of stuff...Lean and be able to recite the divorcebusting 180. But you'd have to do some serious life changes for it to work...basically toss any and all manipulations out the door.

Sounds like you might be good on emotional needs boards. Not sure if it's divorce for you guys at all. But some change needs to be made ok?

Say what you mean, mean what you say.
Make it very clear so there are no misunderstandings.

If you want some, ask for some.
Don’t “hint” that sex is available and then when he is not forthcoming, get upset.

I am sorry but I do not agree with the rest of you at all. This situation reeks of abuse. THe guy believes he needs to make no real effort and that you need to just take him "as is". Gives no emotional support etc etc. Humiliating sexual encounter where she receives a 7. You are the second person tonight I have told about this book but I suspect you are not going to want to llok at it from your post. However, here goes. The book is called Why does he do that? Written by Lundy Bancroft. He is a man that works with abusive men. IT will give you great insgiht into your situation and there is a section that descrives the various types of abusers. You, I and the other person on this board I responded to tonight will all find our spouses on page one of that section. Marrige builders concept do not work well when there is ongoing abuse in the marriage. Although I find they have been useful in some ways to make things more tolerable while one is deciding how to procede.

I suspect you are going to be chasing your tail around like I did for the last 4-5 years being the devoted wife to a man that will never be devoted to you. You are going to be even more exhausted 5 years from now and I suspect no closer to having a good relationship. I suspect that he does not want a divorce because you are filling needs like cooking , cleaning sex etc. I bet that as long as you keep your mouth shut he will stop talking divorce. BUt if you keep bothering him he is going to go eventauly for divorce and get someone who will not bother him. When she starts bothering him he will divorce her too. But the threats can usually keep a woman that is being abused in line for a good long time.

By the way my H first wife warned me too. But she was acting nuts so I did not believe her. I was also younger and more naive. Now I understand why she was going nuts. That is what abuse does to you, it drives you crazy.

Get the book, read it and decide for yourself. I could be wrong. Hope so. But if I am right at least you wont waste the nest years running around in circles or morning loss of a man who was probably never going to treat you well. Isnt it scarier to loose all those years than to find out the truth.

And have you been to al anon. You know you need to take your own needs into consideration as well as your spouse right? IT is hard for those of us trained differently but completely necessary if we are to ever pick a decent person.

Best of luck. Please dont kill the messenger

By the way you can get that book at amazon.com online and they have used copies that are cheaper. I suspect any bookstore probably has it or could order it for you. not too much money