This is the first thread I have started and just joined to write this post. I have looked at this site many times over the past several months and really enjoyed reading the posts from everyone.

To give you a little background...and I am a long winded writer..so bear with me..I am 30 years old, been married for 6 1/2 years to my wife of 32 and have a son who just turned 5 years old. I have filed for divorce, the marital termination agreement has been signed and filed with the court. At this point I am just waiting for a default trial date for the official divorce.

Our marriage has steadily been deteriorating for many years. My wife has become more and more detached from myself and my son as the years went on. We have gone to counseling for over two years now with little effect. My soon to be ex wife has always had a problem of being selfish, self serving, and hurtful in many ways to only serve her self interests.

I always supported her and showed that I loved her no matter how awful things between us got. I always showed her love, affection, and caring in many ways only to have my feelings ignored and ridiculed.

In the mean time, I was always totally responsible for absolutely everything in our household. I was the one that had a well paying, steady job while she would bounce from job to job claiming that there were things about all those jobs that she didn't like. She now has a job as a flight attendant and is constantly gone all the time. I did and still continue to do all of the household chores including cooking, doing the laundry, cleaning the house, paying bills, managing our finances, doing the dishes, and any other things you can think of.

As far as our son, I am always the one who provides him his meals, bathes him, puts his pajamas on, tucks him into bed, gets him up in the morning and gets him ready for daycare, takes him to daycare, and picks him up from daycare. Just today, I have registered him into Kindergarten which required a doctor's visit a couple of days ago for a physical and to update his shots...which I set up and took him to.

On top of all of these things mentioned above, my wife has neglected my emotional needs for quite some time. I did communicate to her my needs (which were not outrageous...such as the need for love, affection, caring, and respect) on many occasions with little to no response or a response of "maybe we should just get divorced". All the while, I was still continuing to make an extra effort to show her love, affection, caring, etc no matter how awful things got. It seemed as though I was always making the sacrifices with nothing in return.

A few months ago, the hurtful and neglectful comments from her became too much to bear. She would tell me that I was boring, unattractive, too skinny, acted feminine, and that she didn't love me anymore, couldn't stand being with me anymore, and wanted a divorce or a separation.

At the time, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. How could a person who has been given so much in the aspect of love, affection, and caring think this way? I constantly told her that I didn't want a divorce, I didn't want to break up our family, and that I really do love her.

This attitude of hers continued to the point that I could just not take it anymore. I finally made the decision that no one should be treated like this, especially considering all of the effort I put into this family and this marriage. I got a lawyer and got the paperwork to file for divorce.

After about a week of filling out the paperwork and telling her that I could not take this kind of abuse and neglect any longer, she started to beg and plead with me to give her another chance. She said that she understood that she had hurt me with the things that she said and her neglectfull attitude and that she really didn't mean them. She promised me that she would change and understand and take care of my emotional needs just like I always took care of hers.

Unfortunately, I trusted that she truly understood that she had hurt me to a point that I was really not sure that I loved her anymore and I reluctantly gave her another "last" chance.

It did change things...... for about a day. After that, it was back to her old, selfish, uncaring, neglectful self. I kept hanging on, hoping that things would really truly change, hovering over her promises. Instead, things only got worse. She still said the mean and nasty things to me and kept telling me that she did not love me anymore and that our personalities clashed and that she didn't want to be with me anymore.

After giving her a hundred chances before on top of that one last chance to redeem herself, I finally gave up. I finished up the divorce paperwork, turned it in, wrote up a marital termination agreement, which she signed, and decided to take charge of my life and do what was best for myself and my son. By the way, I am getting sole physical custody of my son, our house is up for sale, and she should be moving out of the house within the week.

As you read that last sentence....yes she is still living here. That is why this post is here. It is very difficult to have her still around. She is still begging and pleading with me to stop the divorce and telling me that she really does truly love me and she knows that she was hurtful to me and regrets the things she has said and done. She constantly tells me that she wishes she could change the past and she really does want to be married to me and couldn't view life without me.

She is being very nice, kind, considerate, affectionate, loving, and all the other things that I wanted her to be like througout our marriage. However, I have a hard time believing that any of it is truly genuine. I think that since her back is against the wall and she will lose everything in life she was so used to, that she is in desperation mode and will do or say anything to save herself from the responsibilities and obligations of being on her own. It scares her and frightens her that she will no longer have that person that was always there for her to pick up her pieces when she was down or needed help.

However, for some reason, even though I have gone through tremendous pain over the years, I still do miss her when she is gone. I'm sure that this is just natural human reaction when you have been with a person for that many years and that, in time, this feeling will eventually go away.

There is always that fear of the unknown...will everything be alright, will life be better without the burdens of worrying about why a person is not showing you the love an affection that you deserve? Am I really doing the right thing in being strong to my beliefs and feelings and going through with this for the betterment of my life and, certainly, the betterment of my son's life.

Naturally, no one can write all of the instances that happen in a failed marriage unless they write a book..but I think I have hit upon the main subjects that I felt were the catalysts in my situation.

I just need some reassurance that I really am doing the right thing for me and my son's well being. I don't think that me or my son deserve to be treated like we have over the years. I have made effort upon effort to save the marriage and keep hanging on. However, I just don't feel like at this point that I could ever look at myself again if I reversed my decision and fell right back into the same situation I have been dealing with for years which is having an absentee wife and an absentee mother.

Thanks for reading this, I know it is long. I appreciate any comments you may have.

BHB hi,

Sorry you are here. Your sad but well told story traces a history of your admirable patience but also a perhaps demeaning accession to to your stbx's intolerable behaviour.

From what I have read here I believe you must remain firm in your resolve to divorce. If she were ever to deserve to spend her life with you she could prove that just as well after a divorce as before it.

You don't say much about your emotional or sexual relationship with your STBX and I wonder if this was non-existant and in fact she may have been having affairs behind your back.

In the same line of thought are you certain that your son is in fact yours?

Please stand firm and good luck

Thank you for your reply. I didn't pass over information regarding our emotional or sexual relationship on purpose, it just would have turned into a novel.

I knew what her emotional needs were at the time that we were still together and I tried to fulfill them at every turn. Now, I can certainly admit that we did not go out as much when we had our son as we did before. We were also in a situation that we did not have any family support where we are living and did not have many close friends around. However, I always made an effort to set up fun things for us to do on the weekends and enjoy what we were able to do at the time with what we had.


As for our sexual relationship that you inquire about, for quite a period of time, she seemed disinterested. I know that the first thing that pops into people's minds is infidelity. She has admitted that about a year ago she was attracted to other guys from her old job. She thought they were exciting, had a lot of friends, did a lot of things, etc. She even admitted that she had kissed one of them. However, her next sentence was that, at the time, she thought she wanted something different than what she had, but then she came to realize that it was a terrible mistake and it was not what she really wanted and even went so far as to quit that job to get away from it.

I also did not mention in the original post our financial crisis that we had gotten into over the years. She is a obsessive spender and has no qualms about going out and spending hundreds of dollars on items only for herself. Of course, since I maintained the bills, I had to just figure out how to deal with all of this stuff. I constantly told her to watch her spending, but it continued on without displaying any responsibility or understanding the consequences of what she was doing. She even went so far as to open a "secret" credit card account which she racked up over $3000 in a span of three months and expected me to just fit it in somehow. I even had to get a second job at one point in time just to make ends meet.

As far as your comments on whether or not my son is mine...of course he is. Our marital problems didn't really exist until about a year after our son was born. It seemed as though that was the trigger that sent everything into a spiral. It is not as though our marriage has been horrible since day number one. There were good times and bad times. However, the bad times outweighed the good for many years.

I hope that the above post does not suggest that I am a perfect person..nobody is. I do however, firmly believe that I gave our marriage my best shot and continued to hang on and tried to save the marriage for many years. She is not a bad person and I do not hate her. I wish her all the luck in the world and hope that she has a happy, fulfilling, successful life. I still care for her well being...she is still the mother of my child for goodness sakes.

Believe me, don't take all of my ranting and raving the wrong way. I really do wish that things could have been different. I really do wish that she understood all of the things I have told her over the years about the neglect and acted on them in a different fashion to take care of her relationship with me. However, enough was enough and it was time to move on.

In due time, everything will turn out the way it should and everyone involved will be happier and stronger for it. It has made me feel better just writing this and being able to express my feelings.

I appreciate any thoughts you may have.

Thanks for listening once again.

BHB,
Man do I hear you..Thanks for giving me a reply on my other topic. Your situation is very similar to mine in so many ways except I have 4 children to consider. The dynamics of my situation are very complicated not only emotionally, but financially. I do give you more credit and Cajones thanI have at this time to finally make that step. And yes yes yes, your doing ALL the things Being a mother and father, provider, Maintenence man, etc.. that I am doing. Last night I was on the offensive, which is rare for me lately. Guess it is because I tired and have been pushed to the limit. As Clint Eastwood said in on of his films.."A man has got to know his limitations." I hear wha everyone has been telling me and understand that if I do not take that final step I will be setting myself up again to have my heart cut out yet once again. By no means have I been Johhny perfect in the Marriage.. I was WS over 13 years ago. I guess What I am trying to say..is I totlly understand your feelings about your STBX. I to have the same feelings. It is like you just want them to realize what a mistake they are making. One thing that has been my downfall over the years is that I love her so much ( and she knows it) that she has grown accostomed to me tolerating the things she does to me over and over again.

I too really want her to be happy, and I have tried to change my behaviors and sacrificed in the process any of the things I loved to do to make her happy. I too believe my wife is painfully aware that I will not take any more dishonesty.. On the other hand, She may just be trying to weather the storm and think if she is Mrs. Loving that I will forget about the way she treated me. I believe she has used intimacy as a way make me think she really does love me. I have come to realize that I am weak and vulnerable on so many fronts. I sometimes sit outside and wonder how I could be so Whipped and pathetic for so long. My confidence in myself has been eroded to the point I almost lost who and what I am in the process. Listen I could go on and on, I would love to hear more of the things that your wife has done to manipulate you so over the years so I can compare our situations.
Thanks
HumbleOne

Well, a lot of things have happened since my last post and I need some thoughts from the experienced out there.

If you have gotten to this post, you probably have already read the above history of what has gone on in our marriage over the lase several years.

I am now seven days to our default hearing to dissolve our marriage. It is at the stage now that the marital termination agreement has been signed, filed with the court, and a hearing date set. In the past week, my STBE has retained an attorney, even though she voluntarily signed the marital termination agreement some time ago. She wanted to get an attorney becuase she wanted to fight me over custody considerations. She wants joint custody and I want sole custody. I am reassured by my attorney that I really should have no problem obtaining sole custody with her history and her current job in being a flight attendant.

She is aware that her chances are very slim to get joint custody as you probably would see if you read the history of our marriage above.

In any case, in the last few days, she has been begging and pleading with me to stop the divorce. She tells me that she really does love me and wants to be with no one else in her life but me. She says she doesn't want to be divorced and understands all of the hurtful things she has done to me over the years and is terribly sorry and regretful for them. She swears that she will change and that it would never be like that again. She has even suggested that she would go to counseling again. She also says that she will help me out around the house and even cook dinner on a regualar basis and that she was sorry that she didn't realize how important these things were.

She adds that it just took a trauma such as this to make her realize how much she really loves me and needs me in her life. She claims that her perspective in life has changed because of this and she now really, truly understands the importance of her husband and her family.

I am torn. I do not know how to interpret these things she is saying and doing. I can only judge things based on her past actions. I am skeptical to believe that all of a sudden, she is a changed person and she understands what it takes to maintain a relationship. I am just afraid that if I do postpone the divorce proceeding, that I may be making a very big mistake and that I would be setting myself up for another downfall. On the other hand, I am also afraid that these things that she is saying and her current actions are truly sincere and I would be losing what I always wanted in a wife in the first place.

I really don't know what to think anymore. I know it isn't out of the question that marriages can recover over worse things than this, but the question is that with all of the emotional baggage that our marriage has, is it worth the risk?

I need some thoughts and quick.

Everything what you said only had mine yelling and smashing things is what I went through. My advice, People try but they dont change. You have made a decision. You have tried. It will be hard, always thinking of where you would have been if.... Hear my words. You have been enslaved. My guess is that if you let her back, she will backslide. Then she will try to be the perfect mom and treat you the same as she did. She will gather information, record dates, arguments, happenings, just so she can have the upper hand next time. And there will be a next time. She will try to get custody. You have laid all your cards on the table and now she knows your weaknesses. She will use them against you. She will get any aquaintences to be against you. You will have a bigger fight later. The kid will be older. You will be tireder. She will have a better chance. As you said, none of us are perfect and we dont mean to sound that way. We make mistakes and they will come back to haunt you. It is a typical war tactic she is using. Retreat and regroup. I would also guess she was thinking of leaving the kid behind so she could persue a life with no baggage. ( I know, I hate that also) But it is true. Now , she probably had had a flame, who recently went down in flames. Now the thought of being alone again. New tactic. Get the kid. Get the support.(that is a big motivator for these people. I see my own life in yours.

I look to the future now, and what could be for me and the kids. Not what someone else has in store for us. We all make decisions. We all work. No more person barking orders while everyone else does the work.

I would do it again. No regrets other than how much we had together and she threw it away. The sadness that accompanies a death. the death of a sick, wounded irrepairable marriage.

Thank you for your reply.

It's funny, because not only myself but my family was thinking the same thing as you said. Basically, they thought that the current actions and words that she has been saying and doing are phony and have a motivation behind them.

As I said in my post, these "nice and lovely" things she is doing is making me skeptical as to her true intentions. It is nice to hear from someone else to get that third party thought as to the emotional rollercoaster I have been through.

With all of the things that she has done to me, it is hard to trust her word as truth anymore. I never know what I am getting into on a daily basis, and I never know what her intent is when she asks me questions. It always seems as though there is a hidden meaning to her actions, her questions, and her discussions. I always need to read between the lines when she asks me those "loaded" questions and respond to those questions in a presidential manner.

I do believe that at this point, I do hold all the cards and she is the only one with everything to lose. I'm sure that if anyone were in that situation with their backs against the wall, they would be using the same emotional tactic to regain what they are about to lose. I am the only one that can stop this and she knows it. Therefore, she is playing with my emotions to try to sway me.

I think at this point in time, I really should let the divorce go through as it is, and if she wants to try to show me that she is a different person after the divorce, then that is her choice. Don't get me wrong, I really don't want her or her actions back in my life, but it is difficult since I still have a slight connection with her. It was hard enough to go through the hurt and pain the first time.

Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me....right.

Like to have some more thoughts...am I on the right track. I think my mind is getting clearer.

Thanks.

Dude, listen to yourself. You "always" do these great things and she "always" is this and that? Is that so? You ALWAYS showed love, affection, and caring 100% of every day for the past 6 1/2 years? Come on! The word "always" indicates that not one single time in your life did you not act lovingly towards her. If that's the truth, then you must be a perfect man!

I don't buy it. I've been around too long and known too many men and women like you. They're victims. All they see is the other person being 100% to blame for everything and they see themselves as innocent victims who've done no wrong.

It goes like this. The "victims" go to their friends and family to share their pitiful plight because they want to be reassured with things like, "You poor thing. Your wife's a bi***." In some sick way, it makes them feel better to know that others take their side and even the badmouthing of the "guilty" spouse makes them feel good.

It's even been well-researched that this is common behavior during a divorce (go check out "Divorce and Remarriage Journal"-- you can find it at your local University library and you can read the research. You'll find yourself described to the "t" in there). You talk like thousands of men and women who've gone before you. They all quote the "shame on me once, shame on me twice" mantra. It's a little overused if you ask me!

Come on! There's reasons why you're wife isn't happy with you. What's been going on for the past 6 1/2 years besides you "always" being such a loving and responsible guy? There's more to this. Whether or not you divorce, you'd do yourself a favor to figure it out. You're tearing apart your son's family and you owe it to him to stop blaming your wife and to at least own up to your own self.

I say that divorce may do her good though if you continue in this mindset. She'll get over it eventually. She'll find a new man who'll see her differently than you do. Personally, I think she deserves it. Why should she be married to a man who sees no good in her but all the good in the world in him? Her in-laws think she's phony, her husband's out to screw her (you nearly boast of how the ball's in your court and how it's all gonna hurt her), and OlderandWiser's asking if the kid is yours? If I could advise your wife, I'd tell her, "Run and run fast!"

Seems like she's already thought of running though. Been attracted to other guys, mentioned divorce in the past. Why? Don't you wanna know? What the real reason is? Seems like you don't 'cause by divorcing you don't have to face it and deal with it. You can just play the "woe-is-me" victim and never deal with the problems in your marriage.

As for the kid, don't be so sure you're gonna get sole custody. She might have a darn good lawyer, and she should. She has rights and needs to protect herself. But like it or not, she's always going to be that boy's mom and she should be allowed to see him and be with him. Why you'd want sole custody is beyond me. My hunch is that it's a way to get back at her for hurting you. Regardless, you're gonna have to deal with her the rest of your life. Maybe her and her new husband and kids on top of it. But she'll always be that boy's mom and he's her son.

You want reassurance? You keep describing your wife the way you have, and you'll be sure to get it. Keep playing the victim if that's what you want. Those of us who've been around long enough know that there ain't no innocent persons in a marriage. It takes two.

But if your gonna listen to your family and these people over your wife, then she deserves better. Sure the divorce will be tough on her at first, but she'll get over. Once you take her child away from her (if you do) she won't want nothing to do with you. You can be sure of that.

I suppose with your lovely reply, you know all of the details of our marriage and can pass judgement on how I am the reason for the divorce.

For one thing, for many years, my emotional needs haven't been met by my wife with very little fault from me. No matter how bad things got in our marriage and how many times I started the avenues of communication to try to resolve issues in our marriage, there was very little effort on her part.

If you even decided to read all of the previous posts, the effort from myself was constant. We went to counseling for many years in which the counselor fully agreed with the points that I have made and suggested that she needs to improve her communication for her marriage and start making an effort to help with the daily activities in the household. The basic attributes that should happen in any relationship, whether married or not, were not happening by her non-effort to make them happen and only by her choice.

The detachment she had was out of her own selfish feelings and the apparent non-importance of her family and her child. That was her choice, not mine. I continued to show the effort to reconcile and to try to make our lives and our marriage better.

Who are you to judge with your little knowledge of the big picture. I suppose you believe there are always reasons behind why a person chooses to be non-responsive to the efforts put forth by their spouse. What do you do when you try to communicate and resolve problems with your wife many times over and receive literally no response? How am I to blame?

If she finds another man and is happy and "gets over me," then fine...good for her. Maybe now she has learned what kind of communication and effort it requires to maintain a relationship with another person.

I play the victim because I was the victim. The victim of her unwarranted verbal abuse and her unwarranted neglect of her husband and family. Where do you get that I don't want to deal with the problems of our marriage...did you even read the other posts? If only you knew the true situations instead of relying on researched generalizations to put me into a category of the "woe is me" type, maybe you would have a different opinion.

I am getting away from a situation that is a bad environment not only for myself but also for my son. Is that so wrong? It happens every day...read the other posts on this site. I want sole custody of my child because it would be in the best interests of my child. She chooses not to be there for him for his daily needs.

Seems to me that you are a very bitter person who has gone through a relationship that didn't go your way and the other person left because of it.

Although I respect your opinion, I think it is misguided. I have no intentions of not having my son have a relationship with his mother...where do you get that? I have proposed a VERY liberal visitation schedule which basically says that she can have him on her days off of work. Does this seem to you that I am preventing him from having that needed relationship with his other parent?

In addition, I have decided to reserve child support and daycare contributions that she would be required to pay by law so that she can get financially viable in her new life. I suppose that if I was as mean of a person as you proclaim me to be, I would be going for the jugular.

On your point of myself only communicating with my family and not my wife over subjects of our marriage, you are again misguided. When there is no effort of communication from your wife...who else is there to go to but your friends and family. Where else would you suggest to get support in times of need? I am not a puppet of my friends or my family...I make my own decisions. I am not looking for sympathy, just opinions. By the way, she has burned all the bridges of her relationships with her parents with her attitude and her disrespect towards them. Is this my fault?

In conclusion, you can make all the effort in the world to make people happy, but if they are not happy with themselves, your efforts are futile.

Well the choice is up to you. Would it really hurt to postpone the D and give her one more chance? I am like you, the papers are with the attorney, but I decided to postpone.

I also let WH retire and get a bonus. I told him I will hold off on D. I may be setting myself up for more pain, but in the end I want to be able to look back and know that I did everything possible to save the marriage.

Holy S**T. Downtown has a major flaming going on. I suppose you would like to direct your words toward me also as I am in a very eerily same situation as Been Hurt. You might have gotten your clock cleaned in court due to poor lawyering, or a real monster of a spouse, dont take it out on everyone else. I have been here reading and studying for a long time. I tried to impliment the concepts here and was met with such anger and uncooperativness, I had to end the madness and TAKE MY KIDS TOO ! I would do it again. I too was the victim, along with my kids. I was wrong for letting it go on.
I was wrong to stay with someone who did many mean spirited things including illegal activities.
I was wrong for letting it get so bad
I was wrong for thinking that I had to put up with it in exchange for love.

Let me ask you, Have you ever considered suicide as a way out?
Have you laid in bed crying asking GOD to take you away from the daily pain of living with someone who rampages, smashes things, physically abuses you and your kids, and verbally assaults you with out being able to get a word in edgewise? Have you ever lost every friend you ever had because your spouse causes a scene and makes them uncomfortable? Have you ever lived with someone who has 9 out of 10 symptoms of bipolar, or 8 out of 10 symptoms of manic depressive? I see you have been a member since December, and had 4 posts. Maybe you are a lurker. Maybe this is your anonymous anger outlet.

I have no idea what your situation is, but you sound like you may be his spouse.

I came here to learn, to share, to help others by seeing how even the most amicable arrangement, can quickly deteriate to an explosive, anger driven war. I come for answers. I come for support and to support others. I realize that we hear one side. I am a person whe always wore my heart on my sleeve, Willing to share experiences and ideas with anyone. If your aim here is to vent your anger toward people who are already hurting, you arent helping anyone. My wife goes to counseling, telling her mind altered version, playing the victim. Is that why she didnt fight the cruel and inhumane treatment charge for grounds in our divorce? Is that why her own lawyer wanted her to take a psychiatric exam? A complete stranger making this observation? Someone who never believed in couseling, suddenly goes after she leaves the marriage and kids behind, stating she wants the kids in counseling? Is that why every person I have run into that heard about the divorce wanted to congradulate me rather than feel sorry and in shock over it? Unable to understand how I hung in there for so long?

I realize that some of us may hide a few things here, I was honest. Without honesty, how can you be helped? It was a good thing that you point out maybe's as far as his innability to convey any wrong doings in his marriage and that is fine, But dont sound like a judge jury and executioner based on what he has told us. Maybe ask if he feels any of it were his fault. I know this was long winded, but I think it was important. He is not only here for help, but understanding and support. I STAND WITH BEEN HURT BEFORE.

Like I said, I've seen it a million times before. Your story is like a million other stories. Don't mean it isn't painful or relevant to you, but you gotta understand something very important. No one person is 100% to blame for the problems in a marriage but when someone is wanting out, that's how they see it. Every time. It's called selective memory. You look back and all you see is the negative. You look back and forget the times when you did things that hurt her. You forget the good in her. You only see the bad in her and the good in you. Come on. I've seen it a million times. Happens with just about every person in an affair or wanting a divorce.

I've heard the "Shame on me, shame on you" quote more than I can count. I work in this field and you are the classic "victim" who is blaming your wife and wanting others to side with you so you can take no responsibility for your own actions. Don't think for a minute it's some bad relationship in my life. Lots of persons have been are are right where you are. Some looked back and saw it and some didn't. Some are still victims of one thing or another. Some though learned and were able to see 4 or 5 years down the road that yah, they had selective memory.

There's no way on God's green earth that you are blameless or that you have "always" been loving, caring, and the rest. You need to change your vocabulary and change that "always" to "sometimes" or even "most of the time." Be real with your own self. You aren't perfect. No one "always" does something.

Whether you divorce or not is almost beside the point in what I've said to you. You divorce. Fine. It's your life. But you're still gonna have whatever traits you had before that caused your wife to feel unhappy in a marriage with you. When a spouse views the other person as solely to blame and as the one with all the problems, they don't deal with themselves and they take that into subsequent marriages only to find those marriages ending too. Read the research. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it.

Stop blaming your wife. Don't play the "he says, she says" game. Just get the divorce, wish her well, and move on. Let her at least get out with some stitch of dignity. It doesn't do any good to go through all the garbage of what she did or didn't do.

This isn't about me and my life other than I was once just like you and it took too many years for me to see the truth. Don't make that mistake. Trust me, it's not worth it to wake up one day and realize you're the [censored] and the rest of the world is not (like you thought they were).

Over and over, you say you're not at fault, didn't do anything wrong, your wife's to blame. Fine. That's your opinion. Stop bellyaching, get the divorce, and let her go. Divorce is divisive and people will take sides, but don't expect everyone to hear your side and show you sympathy. You're looking for sympathy. That's clear. It's what people do when they're in the midst of divorce. I did it. Ran to everyone, got them on my side, felt a little bit of sick pleasure knowing that my wife was getting what was coming to her. That's how I saw it. Just like you. But, it's not gonna do you much good in the long run when your wife's moved on and you find yourself with another woman and a whole new set of problems.

Tell me, what would your wife say if she came her? What are HER complaints about you? I know she has them. She's shared them with you through the years until she finally felt like you weren't listening and she started resenting you, despising you, and even thinking of other men.

You're both to blame for the problems in your marriage and you'd both be wise to work on your own selves, regardless of whether you divorce or stay married. If she's a selfish bi*** like you describe her, fine. Let her be. Get the divorce and let her live her life. You still got to live with yourself though, and you ain't a perfect man. So deal with you, let her go, and stop being a victim. You see yourself as a victim. Hell, we are all victims of one thing or another. Get over it.

Why would I care to read the other posts to see that it happens every day? So what? People do alot of things every day. Doesn't mean it's an excuse to join them. I do things based on what I believe to be right or wrong, not based on the majority of other people who do the same things.

Like I said, I deal with this every day. I've seen and heard your story a million times from both women and men. If you don't see it, you're gonna be a victim your whole life in one way or another.

You ever corner someone, yelling at them at how stupid they are, they spend too much money, they neglect their family, they're selish and deceptive? You ever go on and on until they break and slap your face and then you scream "abuse?" I did. I made my wife who she bacame. I provoked her. I belittled her. I had every right. Or so I thought. I ws the victim and she was the shrew. Ha! Yah right. The selfish, distant, lonely woman she was- I made her that way. It took a few years, and yah, I was the "victim" of this "abusivive, selfish bi**" and I didn't see it til later. She was the true victim. I got the counselors on my side too. Big deal. They didn't live with us. It's not too hard to snowball even a counselor, esp. when you're a smooth-talking, self-centered, dominating man. Do your self a favor and don't get yourself all bent out of shape but listen to what I'm saying. I know what I'm talking about in more ways than one.

All I have to say is...wow...you really do have some serious problems. It is no wonder your wife left you. Look at how you talk in a forum such as this with people only posting to get help.

You are not a help. You are an overbearing, finger pointing, blaming, and hypocritical individual.

If you would even bother to read the advise in this website before you start making excuses for other people's behavior, maybe you would have seen what I am sure all the other people in this forum see in you and your actions, thoughts, and behavior.

People's behavior is a pattern. I saw this behavior in her slightly in the beginning. Over the years it just grew worse. I am not looking for sympathy, especially from a person like you who seems to think that another person's actions and behavior is linked is some way to the apparent actions of myself.

As I have said in my previous posts, I never said I was a perfect individual...no one is. But, what I am saying is that I am the one who treated her as a wife, as a person, and as a friend while she was treating me like garbage.

You seem to be the apparent expert in the subject, yet I can clearly see why you were divorced.

Myself posting on this site is not bellyaching or an avenue to receive sympathy...it is merely a way to express my feelings on what is going on in my life and my displeasure of the circumstances in this marriage.

I am going to get divorced, and, you know what, I will feel relieved. I no longer will have to deal with the emotional rollercoaster of her engrained values and beliefs. I will no longer have to deal with the verbal abuse she hands me.

As you write, I will have to deal with myself after it is all said and done and I know that I will come out a better person without the stresses and pressures of being involved in a failed marriage. I will also have, as you say, the traits I have always had before. They are of a kind, caring, responsible individual who thinks about other people first in my actions.

So what if you didn't like my vocabulary in the particular words I decided to choose. If you were sitting her right now, you would see why I chose them. Were you ever with a person that showed no effort?

As the advise in this website says and I will quote:
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But many of us who have studied human behavior scientifically, and have tried to help people change their behavior, know differently. We know that the vast majority of what a person does is driven by instincts and habits -- ways of behaving that are automatic and almost effortless.
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Seems to conflict with your reasoning that other people's behavior is based on how other people react to them. Behavior cannot be changed unless the person wants it to change. You cannot change them. They must change themselves and if they have no intentions on changing the behavior of neglect, constant verbal abuse, and a selfish motivation in their actions...what can you do? Do you treat the person with kindness and affection until they have completed obliterated your self esteem and your values?

NO, you put yourself in a situation that this doesn't happen to you anymore.

What are her complaints you ask? That I am boring, skinny, unattractive, and I apparantly have no friends. Are these legitimate complaints in order to justify treating someone like she has?

Do you have a wife that doesn't even clean her own messes? Do you have a wife that rarely, if ever, goes grocery shopping for her family? Do you have a wife that has never cooked a meal for her family? Do you have a wife that has sent her child to daycare even when she has the day off? Do you have a wife that constantly spends money to the point of near bankruptcy? (Did you ever have to take a second job to make ends meet because of the last line?) Do you have a wife that has NEVER taken the responsibility of setting up doctor's appointment, setting up daycare, or obtaining a babysitter for your child? Do you have a wife that took a job that requires her to be away from home over half of the month?

Do these seem like actions that I brought upon by my day to day interactions with her. No, these are actions that she chooses. I don't want your sympathy, I know what is best for myself and my son. Get away from a person like this!

The main thing he did wrong here was accidently marrying her! His judgement was not sound doing that and having a baby with her. Really there are people like this woman. I do not believe that he is making this up.

BHB,

I think the point is that she has NOT tried to make this marriage work. I think you should continue on with the D. This site is not a marriage at ALL COSTS site. Downtown clearly has issues, and I am fairly sure he has not heard it a "million" times.

The point is whether you have included every detail of your life or NOT, you feel you have not been supported in this marriage,and you frankly have little to lose by ending it. If you feel this way, as you clearly do, then finish it.

I think your W is in for a rude awakening about life if she doesn't figure out to handle money. That issues alone is a biggie. Since I fly alot I can assure you her life as a flight attendent will NOT be a bed of roses either. It is a tough job and a tiring one especially for someone with no seniority.

There is the possibility that at some point in the future, you two may get back together. But I would NOT hold my breath on that one.

Must go. I am sorry it has come to this, but since it has, let it come.

God Bless,

JL

Dude, my wife didn't leave me.

You're not gonna listen to anything I'm saying but it's no surprise. Most people in your shoes don't wanna hear anything other than sympathy. You said when you posted here that you were open to critism but obviously you're not. I wasn't either. Heck, I steamrolled over anyone who dared to say I was even 1% to blame for anything at all. I had an ego the size of Texas and there was no way I was gonna take any blame for anything.

Like I said, get the divorce and let her live her life. Who's business is it what her problems are? So what if you're wife's in for a big awakening? Let her face it down the road and let her be. That's what I'm saying here. You're convinced that your wife is 100% to blame and obviously you're not willing to hear otherwise. So let her go and let her move on and let her keep some dignity in the meantime.

The reason I am divorced is because I too was convinced that my wife was a nutcase- selfish, self-centered, lazy, and didn't love me like my big ego thought I should be loved. She didn't meet my expectations and standards of the perfect wife. It wasn't until some good people told me like it was and yah, she had some problems, but man, so did I.

Obviously, you don't believe you have any. You say you're not perfect though. Why don't your share what your imperfections are? Have you read the material here, the articles?

No one's told you to save this marriage. What I am saying is get it done with and then let her live her life. It doesn't matter who's at fault. Once you're divorced, she'll be out of your life. But you gotta know that she's still gonna share your kid so you'll still have to deal with her. The best you can do is deal with yourself. Stop using the "always" and the "never" and creating scenarios of selective memory where you only see bad wife, good husband. You pat yourself on the back ALOT here.

Other people's behaiovr affecting how others react to them is in conflict? Come on! It's the whole premise behind the needs and POJA concepts. You don't meet someone's needs. They want out. Sounds like your wife wanted out awhile back. She was probably too afraid to divorce. So she emotionally and mentally checked out. Stayed physically, checked out her mind and feelings.

Of course you can't change her. But heck, you can do alot of things to learn her needs, meet her needs, and see her bloom. But that's not the point here. That's not your objective. So it's no need going into that. But that is the concept behind meeting other's needs. I have no doubt that you have needs not being met and I have no doubt that she feels she's got needs not being met, even though in your eyes, you feel you're meeting her needs. Doesn't matter how you feel or see it. How does she feel and see it? Does SHE feel you meet her needs?

All the things you describe sound like a woman who checked out of her marriage with mind and spirit. Trust me, she could be my wife. My wife two-checked me, and who was to blame in my eyes? She was. I wouldn't look at my own bad self and see the things I did to make her that way.

Your wife says your boring and have no friends. Yah, those are legit. The skinny and unattractive. Who knows. Maybe they are said in her anger and resentment. Maybe you aren't taking care of yourself. Who can know the mind of woman? Do you ask her? Maybe she thinks your passive. Maybe controlling. Those things I don't know and I'm not so sure you do either, or if you do, you chose to dismiss them and see it as her problem, not yours.

I'm not saying your marriage is gonna work. Just that you gotta stop patting yourself on the back, stop complaining, don't be a victim, do what you're gonna do, and let her be. And like I said, there's a million people like you. All see it the same way. It's the fog of the divorce. People see only neg., no positive. The fog usually clears a few years down the road, maybe in the next marriage when they find it ain't so great.

Lots of people are divorced. You'll get over it eventually. She's get over it.

So, by the way, you tell your wife all these things in the privacy of your home? You tell her she's selfish, neglectful, a bi***? Let me know. I'd be interested. Be interesting how you communicate your frustrations with her.

Glad you're not looking for sympathy 'cause you ain't gonna get it from me. You're a big boy.

read this http://www.saafamilies.org/education/articles/prof/patz.htm

the defective wife syndrome. Almost every dude in divorce has it. "Although marriages of men who present this syndrome may have ended for a variety of reasons, the men rigidly insist that the ex-wife was entirely responsible for its failure. Her alleged defect is presented as self-evident proof for this view, which permits him to disavow all responsibility for the marital failure."

Don't get me wrong, I understand the things that you are saying. However, I also do believe that you are misinterpreting the situation.

It was not as though she was making the effort on a regular basis to maintain a marriage and a relationship since the very beginning of our relationship. It wasn't the situation that she was doing these things and because of the apparent attitude or "conflict" that I was imposing on her, that she all of a sudden checked out and stopped doing all the things that are necessary to maintain a strong marriage. As I look back at the very beginning, the signs of disaster were all there. I just merely put up with them, ignored them, or just plainly didn't understand them and chose the path I did to stay in the relationship and the marriage.

I am a strong believer in doing everything possible to maintain a family atmosphere for my son. However, as time went on, situations got worse. She has already admitted the many failed relationships she had before me and that the reason that ours progressed as far as it did was because I was the only person that would stay with her and put up with her attitude and demeaner. I was the husband by default to her. She never had a need to change her ways in her mind, I would always put up with it.

As I look back, I agree with baba in the point that the mistake I made was to marry her and have a child with her. I saw all of the signs of an impending failed marriage but chose to ignore them or misinterpret them. That is my fault.

I will get divorced, have a happier life with myself and my son, and feel relieved to right the wrong in my ultimate decision. I will probably find someone else that can take care of the things that are required in a marriage like support, trust, concern for the other person, respect, and care. I think these are basic needs that need to be met in order for any relationship to work. It was not as though she was doing these things and, all of a sudden, by some reaction to my "conflict" or behavior, she checked out and stopped doing these things. These things were not being met long before she "checked out." It is my fault for not seeing these signs before and to start something that probably shouldn't of happened in the first place...getting married.

However, she had the power to change these things and change the course of her life and her marriage. All it takes is an effort on her part. An effort that she didn't feel was necessary or needed. Now she, for the first time in her life, is living with the consequences of her actions...or, more appropriately, her non-action.

She will live her own life after marriage and I guarantee that if she does not change her attitude, her demeaner, and her views of the importance of marriage and family, she will live a life alone. She does not have close friends and she does not have a relationship with her parents. Don't you think there is a reason for that? It is because of the way she treats people. She has burned all the bridges in her life and it is not my fault, only hers. That is the type of person she is.

She called me last night while she was out of town. Do you think she even mentioned how her son was doing or how his day went? As the many times before, the answer is NO. Does this sound like a mother to you? Wouldn't you think that it would be the first thing a caring mother would ask? What part of my posts do you not understand? Do you just have the ability to tell me that you have "seen this a million times" and because of your particular situation, that mine is the same? I wish you could meet my wife and live in my household...only then would you understand.

The time has come to move on to better times. Better times for myself and my son. Hopefully I can find someone who would at least show some effort in their marriage and take care of the needs of her family and her husband without having to ask. Isn't that what everyone looks for in life with a partner? I am not getting it, so I am moving on.

If you go back to that selfish manipulator, then I am afraid you will be cutting your own throat.

Please be good to yourself, you are precious, and find out why you dated, married and had a child with such a woman so you don't ever do it again! There are reasons for everything we do and if we find out the reason, we can make better choices in the future.

Good Luck,