I posted this on GQII, but wanted to post it here as well...

Hello all, it has been a long time since I have posted anything. I have a question that is all at the same time tearing me up and kinda funny. I’m just wondering, for the BS’s out there, how many different excuses have you been given for why your WS has left? I have been given about a dozen or so DIFFERENT reasons for why she left. Everything from me being emotionally abusive and controlling to use have some financial difficulties to the latest reason of her thinking I had some kind of emotional internet affair. For those people in my life who really know me, all of these are completely ridiculous excuses.

Just a brief history of my situation, my WW had the stereotypical A with the neighbor. He is a slightly older divorced guy who has custody of his 8 yo daughter. This thing developed almost by the script, they became acquainted as neighbors, then friends at neighborhood get togethers, my wife started offering to help him watch his daughter on some days (as she was a stay at home mom), so on and so on. Suffice to say I became suspicious when I had to start dragging her home at 4 in the morning from his house, then getting met with anger and rage from her… it is all so “20/20” looking back, all the signs were there. Anyway, when given the opportunity to end the A and repair our family (plan A…done marginally well) she chose to move out. When given the opportunity to come home (plan B letter) she tried to take the kids away from me with a bogus order for protection. When still given the opportunity to fix things (I did another sort of plan B type letter when she actually got her own apartment) she decided to file for divorce a week and a half before Christmas. I did a marginally well plan B, but it all seems rather pointless now. Basically she is having this A right out in the open in front of the world… she lives at his house when she doesn’t have the kids and brings the kids around him when she does have the kids. We are all still in the same neighborhood and nobody seems to care what she has done… they are all still friends with her and the OM…like nothing ever happened. With the exception that they seem to shun me…!!! Currently we are in the middle of a bitter, bitter divorce and custody battle, I can’t wait till it is over. I don’t think I would ever take her back, I found out that this wasn’t the first time she has cheated on me. Yet I terribly miss us being a family, I hope this gets better soon.

Anyhow, back to the question… I know from plan A that I am not to believe anything of what she says, and for the most part I don’t. But she keeps telling me that she has never hated someone as much as she hates me, that she has never met someone who was so emotionally damaging to her as I am… so on and so on. The common theme here is that the reason she left was: A) not because of the OM and B) was never her fault, it was all because of me. I’m just wondering how many others have gotten this treatment? How many others have gotten this litany of reasons why the WS has done what they did, all the reasons different…and yet all your fault? Give me you thoughts here, I can’t help but laugh sometimes at the outrageous-ness of the excuses she comes up with for why she left, I’m just wondering if others have had this happen to them. Thanks.

Reading your story was about like reading my own except the OM in my case lives a 2 hour drive away. My WW has told me that she left me because 1.) I was physically abusive even though she could not name one instance when I ever laid a hand on her in anger, could be because it never happened. 2.) She could not live with my anger anymore- I work in law enforcement and coworkers get put out with me because no matter what is happening, I don't go balistic or even get excited. I remain cool and calm. 3.) She can't live in fear of my wrath anymore- see #2. Her leaving has nothing to do with her A, she claims she didn't start "dating" him til after she moved out. I have evidence that indicates otherwise and there was an EA if not a PA going back to mid November '03. I just think this is the fog and alien abudction I have been reading about here.

WMWB,

Hey! Just saw your post here and wanted to stop bye and say HI ... you and I have already come up with .. what ? 15 similar replys? it's all the Fog ...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lost&Confussed:
<strong> WMWB,

...you and I have already come up with .. what ? 15 similar replys? it's all the Fog ... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah I know...but it still sucks and it still gets me doubting myself sometimes.

I just ran on to this on this same forum under the topic "Dating while divorcing???":
TR--Have you ever read this article by Dr. Harley?


Why Women Leave Men

"I hurt all the time because I feel alone and abandoned."

"My husband is no longer my friend."

"The only time he pays attention to me is when he wants sex."

"He is never there for me when I need him the most."

"When he hurts my feelings he doesn't apologize."

"He lives his life as if we weren't married; he rarely considers me."

We're like ships passing in the night, he goes his way and I go mine."

"My husband has become a stranger to me, I don't even know who he is anymore."

"He doesn't show any interest in me or what I do."

Women tend to be more concerned about their marriages than men. They buy most of the books on marriage to try to improve them and initiate most marriage counseling. They often complain about their marriages to their closest friends and sometimes to anyone who will listen. And they also file for divorce twice as often as men.

Why do women seem so dissatisfied with marriage? What do they want from their husbands? What bothers them so much about marriage that most are willing to risk their families' future to escape it?

The most common reason women give for leaving their husbands is "mental cruelty." When legal grounds for divorce are stated, about half report they have been emotionally abused. But the mental cruelty they describe is rarely the result of their husband's efforts to drive them crazy. It is usually husbands being indifferent, failing to communicate and demonstrating other forms of neglect.

Another reason for divorce reported almost as much as mental cruelty is "neglect" itself. These include both emotional abandonment and physical abandonment. Husbands that work away from the home, sometimes leaving their wives alone for weeks at a time, fall into this category.

When all forms of spousal neglect are grouped together, we find that it is far ahead of all the other reasons combined that women leave men. Surprisingly few women divorce because of physical abuse, infidelity, alcoholism, criminal behavior, fraud, or other serious grounds. In fact, I find myself bewildered by women in serious physical danger refusing to leave men that threaten their safety.

Simply stated, women leave men when they are neglected. Neglect accounts for almost all of the reasons women leave and divorce men.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

There is the link to the rest of the article--maybe you should read it---and see if maybe from your wife's perspective--the marriage was over before you even recognized a problem--

most men I know--don't know there is a problem in their marriage until their wives are telling them they want a divorce--

Sure hits home with this topic for me.

DJ-

Thanks for posting that article, I read it 9 months ago when I first suspected a problem. I know that my WW felt neglected to degrees, but everyone says she was rather unrealistic in her expectaions. She wanted the world yet didn't want me to go out and get it. She looked at me going to work as playtime with the guys... I don't know what i could possibly have done differently. I feel as though I've bent over backwards...from day one...to please her. What did I get for the trouble? She stuck around just long enough for her to find what she thinks is a better deal...then out the door she went.

<small>[ May 17, 2004, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back??? ]</small>

I heard it all, it got worse as I guess her affair with her co-worker deepened.
The last 6 months we were together sort of went like this.
She wasn't happy, she wanted her space, she was done.
Then it became she never got a chance to live on her own, then she didn't love me, that she never loved me, that it was big mistake getting married 17 years ago.
Then the last 2 months together it became, I was abusive, emotionally, physically, that she hated me, just give me a divorce, that she wished I was
dead, she hated me, did I mention she hated me.
Then she filed restraining order on me, claiming abuse, saying I was mentally ill, that I had threatened my children. That I drug her by the hair and slammed her face into the floor....7 years ago, that I raped her....18 years ago....
t

WMYWB????
I understand what you are saying. I feel like I got the same treatment after 22 years together. The vile, hateful b!tch that I have seen since moveout day doesn't resemble the one I married. This is not her first A but I didn't find that out till after moveout day. 22 years together and she dosen't have enough respect for me to tell me the truth. And its all my fault. I feel like a ping pong ball some days I want my, my family, my life back and some I wonder how far away from her can I get. If I didn't have children, I know I would be gone.

continuing....that all the marital debt was my fault....that I never made enough money....that I was not a good parent....that my youngest was
neglected by me....that all I did was sleep....
...........It seems to me that the more the get involved with the other person the more they slam the spouse..........
I am as much to blame as her for us letting our marriage get to that point, but she started talking to her co-worker (male/married), of course he is not going to say anything about trying to work on her marriage if he had other plans, plans with her.
So now I am divorced, lost my job, she still has r/o on me....she never looks at me, but she sure doesn't look very happy to me.
Both of us love our kids very much.
It has torn me up having to say goodbye to my kids everyday, then having them everyother weekend.
I am sure neither one of us wanted a family like this, I don't, but she has done so much for it ever to go back....I don't think she wants it back, but I don't think she is happy with the split up family either.
She really just wanted to replace me with the OM, then never have to deal with me again.
But maybe, just maybe the missing the kids will catch up with her.
I know I could forgive her, my friends say I would be stupid to for all that she has done to me, to bascically try and destroy me.
But I don't like this broken family....does she?

My WW actually said to me yesterday that "...you just don't get it, he is not the reason I left you." I told her she was wrong (I know...big misake and an LB), I told her that everything she has said and done regarding her A is a total stereotype...it has all been said and done by a million other people in exactly the same spot she is in. Her reply...."Has the stereotype been controlled and emotionally abused? Has the stereotype had to endure financial hardships like I have?" Ummmmm, yeah...according to them they have!!!! I swear, there must be a script written down somewhere that they are reading from. It is amazing how they all basically say the same thing.

Ah yes, the I-love-you-but-am-not-in-love-with-you speech. Or the infamous I'm-unhappy becoming I've-been-unhappy-for-years to I've-never-been-happy. Geez Louise, you think that the WS could come up with something freaking original!!!!

Rustfirefly and WantmyWifeBack, I am the female BS but have heard all the same male bovine fecal matter. Other examples:

I am now accused of keeping our son from his Dad (by his Dad) and I think that he is a bad father. Huh? I never said that - in fact, I'm the one who called *him* to see if he wanted to see his son on his days off.

STBX tried to put out a restraining order on me, called the cops twice when I came to house to pick up our son (at the time legally mandated by visitation agreement), called the cops to accuse me of property damage (no charges filed), blah, blah, blah.

And all this because he had at least six affairs and showed no signs of remorse, no ability to work on the marriage and no intention of ever stopping having affairs. Um, can we say lack of personal responsibility here?

Just my .02 to let you know that it happens to both sexes in a marriage. I would NEVER draw up a restraining order on STBX unless he was a danger to me or our son. He's infuritating, but not dangerous. Actually, he's kind of pathetic, but that's another post.

I am concerned that he doesn't see his son and encourage him to do so. Yes, I do want the visitation on paper because he has lied so much to me, to his lawyer, to my lawyer, to the court ,TO EVERYONE, that it is the only way I can protect myself. Heck, I even get him to sign letters when I take son with me on extended weekend trips so he will not accuse me of kidnapping - based on his love of calling the cops everytime I breathe, he would, too.

Just wanted to offer my empathy and support. I'm walking in your moccasins and, man, do they pinch!

How many, huh?

Here goes:

1. Our marriage [16 years] was on a trial basis.
2. You're an inadequate wife.
3. You knew this would happen.
4. What did you expect, you married a rocker.
5. You know I've always been a loner.
6. Your elbows are too big. [WTF?]
7. You'd never make a good mother.
8. You took my Robben Ford tape without asking me.
9. and on, and on, and on ....

The absurdities in his reasons were never ending, and most of them were a kin to blame.

You just have to do the best you can. Never stop believing in the goodness in yourself and try your best to forgive.

Lv,
Jo

<small>[ May 17, 2004, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Well here goes:

1)I was unhappy for 30 years..(man why did it take you so long to realize this)

2) You were aggressive and controlling..(he always had his freedom to persue whatever he wanted from rock bands, car racing, to helicopter flying..you name it I let him do it)..I let him contol everything from the finances to what channel we watched on TV...usually the friggin space channel..suspect that is why he seems like such an alien now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

3) I never felt loved...( at times neither did I but never thought about crossing the line and having an A)

and the rest of the list is just about what you hear from everyone else who has posted on this thread <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Amazing how we BS's heard so many of the same things.

Doesn't surprise me or anyone everything is about us. Not once is there a word about them!

Yes, the wayward spouse puts blame elsewhere, for they don't see themselves has having a problem.

God, sees, God watches, God replies!

Oh, man, I can so relate to all of you. I have been a "lurker" for several months and don't post very often. I am quite certain that my husband is about to file and it is almost a relief. We are married 33 years, high school sweethearts, grew up in the same neighborhood and have raised 3 amazing sons. We are both almost 54 y.o. and he became involved with an unhappily married coworker in October 03. I asked him to move out on 3/29, he made half-hearted attempt to break with her on 5/1 that might have lasted 2 days and I have now told him that if he wants a divorce he should just f***ing do it 'cause I was sick of playing his game. When we have talked about his "girlfriend" and her manipulative, spoiled 8 y.o. daughter and I asked what attracted him to her that would make him trash 33 yr of marriage he tells me she is a cute girl with a good personality that has had such unhappy relationships! Ok, cute and with a good personality...sounds like junior high to me.

This woman has divorced her husband and they just sold their house so now I am certain she will start putting the screws to him to divorce his wife and make her the happy little woman in his life. Do I sound bitter? Well, maybe a little.

Oh, I forgot to mention that during the course of my discovery of this affair he admitted to me that he has really never been faithful...this is likely the 9th affair and there were other "flings" as well. I have reached the point that even though I love the man I was married to it is probably better for me to move on...how could I ever trust him again? This man that looks like my husband and sounds like my husband has become something so alien to me!!

Wantmywifeback....Wow can I relate... I was with my exhusband for 18 years - married for 15 - when I found out he was having an affair - now three years after initial d-day and divorced 1 1/2years... All of the blame still is put on me... He had an affair - took me 6 months to find out the affair was with the lady that lives next door to me and continues to live there.. Both of us are divorced now... Of course each of them deny any other than a friendship until last October and now they are dating - but it is still a secret to most people- thinking maybe they are ashamed of what they did - anyways - I got the I am not in love with you - we haven't gotten along in years (news to me) - I love you but definately not in love with you - I am controlling - I didn't ever want to do anything - We have nothing in common - I could go on and on and on.. But pretty much he has in his own little warped mind - rewritten our entire life together - to hear him talk it is a wonder any children were born out of this union.... Anyways living next door to her - makes it 100 times worse because I look at her everyday - though I suppose I am lucky because he never goes there ever... But again - it is her exhusbands fault her kids don't like my exhusband and my fault my kids don't like her - go figure - They will never accept any blame because well I am not sure they could live with themselves if they accepted any of the guilt.. I really feel for you - because they are in the neighborhood together - fortunately for me - none of my neighbors ever talk to her... So that is good - but it is so damn uncomfortable... ugggggg- but I figure if I move out he will move into her house - and never in my lifetime - I will tell you .... But there is no reason behnind what they did - that ever makes sense... You will not be able to figure it out - so don't bother....

....Oh....I forgot to add what my WS said about me as a parent, "I was nothing more than a sperm donor"....................................

Hi Guys,

About neglect, I don't think men "understand"...

when there is lack of love... lack of emotional connectedness... lack of the simplicity of humility and softness and tenderness... a woman begins to feel pain...

Eventually, when the pain increases... love turns to hate... cause the pain is too great to bear.

A woman tells a man... and he thinks it's no big deal... cause he cannot feel what she feels.

A woman tells a man... and he ignores her.

A woman tells a man... and he tries to get her to think and feel (not feel) like he does.

And the pain becomes too great... and love turns to hate.

Just telling you how women feel - why they turn to other men to reduce the pain of the worst form of abuse - neglect - cause, to us, it feels just like hate. And that's why hate in response - all the stuff you are suffering - doesn't feel "wrong" to a woman who has suffered so much.

Lack of love, to us, is hate.

Does that make sense to you men?

Laura

LL:

My answer is yes and know..I think you ask a good quetion here because it gets to the heart of MB principles.

First I would agree that a woman feels much pain, like the pain I felt when i discovred my wifes third affair,but I feel that hate is temporary and a very strong word,but it's the INDIFFERECE of a man that forces a woman to look elsewhere for validation.

As I see it, this where the lack of communication of needs and how they should be delivered come into the equation. Discussion and honesty are hallmarks, knowing that each need may not be delivered 100%. But that is the goal.

Turning to someone else is really not the answer. It tells me that the WS has their own issues to address...because ultimately..most of the time...they will find their current extramarital situation untenable. It just compounds the issues and problems.

For her it was not hate, but incredible disappointment that I would not deliver.

But, I could not. I was still in withdrawl from her prior two affairs.She failed to recognize that or help me understand.

I take my share of the blame...but not for her acions.

I never hated her. I just really never had a good idea of what she really wanted from me.
I suspect she did not really know either. Because she never communicated what she really wanted.

sorry..yes and no