Opinions and rationale, please. Since my wife confessed her affair, I have had a strong desire to tell her ex-lover's wife about it. I admit that revenge was my primary motivation at first, so I did nothing. But, I continue to have this nagging thought - if it was me, I'd want to know. What is the right course of action?

I think you should read everything on this site, especially plan a and then ask this question again.<p>As a BS, I'm not sure I really am better off knowing or not (the A was about over when I found out). I guess I was.<p>BUT is it going to be a huge, huge, huge LoveBuster for your wife if you do this? Chances are his wife knows anyway. Most of the time you can tell when something sneaky is going on.<p>I really don't think this would be a wise decision. Just my opinion.

I am WAY better off having found out - it is impossible to fix a marriage if you don't know what is broken about it. The revelation and process of reconciliation has been incredibly painful, so I understand the uncertainty about whether one is better off knowing or not. In my case, the revelation of the affair caused me to order "Surviving an Affair" which led to some understanding of the contributing factors, and gave us a picture of what marriage could be and how to get there. <p>I am sure this colors my thinking on the subject. If I told and it led to their divorce I would not be happy about that, and that possibility is the main reason I have remained silent. <p>I do not think it would be a huge love-buster for my wife, and I would not do it without at least her consent. Enthusiatic agreement might be harder to come by.<p>I've read almost everything on the site except forum posts, and have never seen this issue addressed, which is why I asked.

Believe me, it is MUCH worse finding out later. In my case, I found out the truth about my H's PA with my former best friend 6 years later! It's awful.<p>Our christian counselor told my support group that God hates adultery very much, that he would want us to tell. <p>I feel like such a fool knowing that they kept their little 'secret' from me. My H told our counselor he promised her 'he'd never tell.' Isn't that sweet?<p>I'm not sure exactly how it could be done, but I do think she has every right to know.

Gee, I would have thought it was a little easier with a little distance of time. I can tell you that finding out while it is going on, even though she confessed out of the blue because of a sermon she heard, and was ready to stop, was AWFUL, too.<p>[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</p>

No, it's not easier over time. Because everything that occurred during that time, every intimate encounter, every I love you, etc. feels like one great big lie. We've been married 16 years, but to me it only counts as 10 because so much of it was lies.<p>Also, this woman should know to protect her own health. STDS spread like wildfire. I have 2 friends who got them from their husbands, one of which could have resulted in birth defects as one was pregnant when she found out.<p>Wouldn't you have wanted someone to tell you if they knew and you didn't? My H and best friend swore it was EA only and I was dumb enough to believe them. And I ended up looking like a major fool. But at least I don't have to live with guilt and shame like they do.

Thanks for the thoughts.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Wouldn't you have wanted someone to tell you if they knew and you didn't?<hr></blockquote><p>Yes, I can't get away from that thought.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Also, this woman should know to protect her own health. STDS spread like wildfire <hr></blockquote><p>Yes, this idiot actually thought my wife had genital warts when the affair started, and they never used a condom!!!<p>All that said, do I want to be involved in this? Isn't it an extension of a twisted relationship? The same day my wife sent the no contact letter, I sent the guy a letter challenging him to have enough guts to do what's right and tell his wife, along with a copy of "Surviving An Affair". Isn't that enough? I don't actually know if he has told her or not (though I have good reason to think not.) There is a possibility my wife, being a Christian, may want to ask her for forgiveness (you know the passage about leaving your gifts at the altar if your brother has something against you?). That would not exactly be a wonderful way for her to find out. (I suppose there is no wonderful way, though the confession of my wife was about as good as it gets... and it was indescribably painful.)

Johnh39<p>I went with my WH to a coffee shop, and witnessed WH confess his affair to OW's H,and apologize to OW's H for the hurt he caused.... It was impressive!<p>I was impressed by my WH's resolve to begin recovery as "a new man". My WH started to feel like he was earning his honor back ... in his eyes as well as in my eyes. I have a need to admire my spouse for his authentic ethics ... and this was the first step of that journey. I was comfortable with the fact that this is mostly a HUGE LB toward the OW (Her *soulmate* betrayed her!! And now she is pissed at the *soulmate*). It placed a wedge of truth and light between their romantic notions ... and gave both marriages a chance at recovery. Bringing the other spouse on board made any future secrecy between lovers very, very difficult.<p>If at all possible ... I recommend the WS confess to the lover's spouse in person ... with the BS present as a witness, and as moral support. But, that's just me. Other's may disagree.<p>Good luck!<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

johnh39:<p>Boy. Very similar situations. My W had "ended" her 2nd A with OM in November. I found out in January. D-day #2, in March, I realized that EA continued via email, because content was far from "detached" from OM.<p>I've wanted to tell OM and OMW that I know, but W needs a report from OM that is way, way late now. She told him I know about a month ago now, and says she hasn't heard squat from him since then, when he said "I'll do whatever you want me to do" and "My W knows" and "We should probably never see each other again." I'd like to tell him what *I* think here - that no, he'll do whatever WE want him to do, and I'd like PROOF that his W knows (so that she can decide to rebuild her M or toss OM ON HER OWN), and damned right he should never see my W again, for ANY reason whatsoever.<p>But I haven't gotten a clear no contact letter agreement from my W, and she's worried that I "want to punish them" by sending them emails of my own. So, since I need my W and I to POJA the NC letter, I think it "fair" that I POJA any letters I send to both of them before I do so. My W's not "ready" for that yet. <p>We haven't talked much about sensitive issues in a few weeks now, so I'm feeling like we're stalled before recovery, again. But JL and others have urged me to be patient a bit longer, that it looks like my situation is much less serious than many on this forum, at least at this point. So, I'm doing my best to remain patient for a few more months, at least.<p>It's very hard for me not to send an email to OMW (and I found her on Classmates.com, so I can do this), not because I want to punish either of them, but I DO want to keep OM from being able to pursue my W by blowing his secrecy bubble apart, and I VERY MUCH believe in radical honesty and the OMW's right to know what's happened and give her the opportunity to make her own choices. I definitely KNOW what it's like not having been told about the A. Her first A with this [censored] ended some 9 or 10 years ago, and our M never really got "better" before the 2nd one started a couple of years ago, so NOT KNOWING does NO GOOD AT ALL. It only protects the liars.<p>So, my gut continues to churn. I sure admire Pepper's method of putting it all on the table. I may consider suggesting something like that to my W, but I don't know... ...I don't think I want to see the OM. Ever.

2Long ... It wasn't as difficult as it sounds. And it was very healing to the both of us. <p>I hope I did not inapproprately identify you in ~real life~ on that other thread! I was suddenly struck with an intuitive recognition of *things*.<p>What does " [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] " mean?<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Pepper.<p>Someday I'll have to hear more about how you did that. JL had suggested at one point that, if my W insists she can be friends with OM, that we put ALL of their history on the table for ALL family members to digest and decide. That's the kind of thing I would like to see, particularly if they stay in contact, for whatever reason... But I'd prefer no contact forever.<p>the winky thing was an acknowledgement.<p>[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: 2long ]</p>

John,<p>Have you made your decision yet?<p>This is only my second post to MB, & for some reason they both have been on threads regarding whether to tell or not to tell the other person's spouse about the affair. Possibly this is a major issue with me? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>When I discovered my H's affair, he was feeling very little (if any!) responsibility toward OWH. As far as he was concerned, OWH was a total beast & no one owed him anything. Of course my H's impressions of OWH had come directly from OW herself. Sheesh.<p>My IMMEDIATE desire was to speak with OWH, & the notion of POJA between H & myself was the LAST thing I was concerned with.<p>First of all, I had pretty-much SHARED A BED with OWH, & you better believe I felt I at least ought have some conversation to go along with the sex which had transpired between us by way of our spouses. Holy Moly.<p>Secondly, H & I would have plenty of time in the future to work on learning to successfully master POJA, but the issue of full disclosure to OWH was one item which was NOT negotiable. OWH had the absolute right to know. It was, as far as I was concerned, the only moral choice to make. The sooner the better, & regardless of any number of real or imaginary consequences.<p>In addition to assuring there was honesty for "all involved parties", I also "needed to" speak with OWH for me. It was important to me that OWH & I had the opportunity to be remembered in both WS's minds as two individuals who had pow-wowed amongst ourselves, despite ANY protestations otherwise.<p>Anyway, in this case OW & OWH had been divorced for approx. 2 months by the time I discovered the A & phoned him. (OW had left him for my H.) OWH was SO THANKFUL that I had called, because he was still agonizing over the fact that OW had insisted all through their divorce that there was no OM. OWH was finally able to trust in the accuracy of his own instincts. <p>I would think that sort of peace is welcome in most every case. We all deserve to know the truth of our own lives, rather than tormenting ourselves with misunderstandings concerning WHY our marriages are in such a mess.<p>Please let us know how this works out for you.<p>~bliss~

Whatever you decide, don't get hung up on this. The important thing is the time, effort and patience you spend on you and your marriage.

Bliss:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Have you made your decision yet? <hr></blockquote><p>No. I, like you, at first felt it was the right thing to do, but since part of the way I had contributed to our marital problems was by systematicly ignoring my own feelings, it was hard to instantly change myself into someone who trusted and acted on feelings like that. By day 3, there was the POJA thing. They also live on another continent, so it's not like I might just run into her at the store. I would violate the POJA if I was sure it was the right thing to do. I think it is imperative that she know. The best way for her to find out is for her H to tell her. The second best way is for my W to tell her. The third best way is for a me to tell her, partly because I can point her here, and to other similar resources. The worst way is for her to find out by accident. The other practical consideration I have is that because of the way his job is now (LOTS of travel), they are going to have a hard time with recovery. I was thinking of waiting until he changed jobs (6-12 mos.), assuming his next job will involve less travel, but now that I think more about that, it is possible that will not be the case. In any event, the affair is information that his wife should be able to take into consideration before he (they) decides what his next job is - so that gives me a time limit.<p>About the POJA: Gary Smalley asks a great question in one of his books: Do you want to give your wife what she wants, or what she needs? Since I was consistent about avoiding conflict in our marriage, I pretty much gave my wife what she said she wanted. This was not POJA, because my feelings were not taken into account. BUT, I also was not giving her what she needed, even though I knew what some of those things were. I figured giving her what she said she wanted would be good enough. Wrong. So, I think there are exceptions to the POJA. Sometimes we need to do what we believe to be right, even if our spouses are not enthousiastic about it. Sometimes we need to give our spouses what they need, even if they are not enthusiastic about it.Of course, trying to determine what your spouse needs when they don't know themselves or won't tell you is challenging, to say the least, and deciding unilaterally that they need something that they claim they do not need or even want is frought with peril. Can you say "controlling and self-righteous"?<p>2Long:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I'd like to tell him what *I* think here - that no, he'll do whatever WE want him to do, and I'd like PROOF that his W knows <hr></blockquote>Since the OM has told your wife that his wife knows, why not just call or email her and verify that. If he is telling the truth, why not? You could also point her to MB and Harley's books, if she indicates an interest. If he's not telling the truth, well, that's his problem, not yours. None of this requires seeing or having any contact with the OM by you or your wife. As for him doing what you want...not unless he wants to, and you just have to accept that. The issue is what does your wife say she wants, and are her words and actions consistent?
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> my situation is much less serious than many on this forum, at least at this point <hr></blockquote>
It's serious. Less or more than other's is irrelevant. That said, i have found that reading about others in very similar situations who's spouses have been much more resistant to recovery than mine has given me a better perspective on how much progress we are making.<p>[ June 01, 2002: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</p>

bump^

Telling the OPH all depends on who it is and the association to you: example - a close friend would need to know otherwise its a false friendship knowing something drastic took place behind your back, thats not true friendship...<p>If a person was having serial affairs don't waste your time. I responded to 1 guy my exw was having an email affair with, she was only 'sorry I got caught" however with the reserved plan of " I got more of where that came from, you can't stop me" it was like chasing ants, those A's were everywhere, I did'nt know she had 3 other guys in secret as well she never brought it up, what I fool I was I though I had stopped something, it was bigger than I imagined, she had a network.

Some things fall outside the bounds of POJA. Some things are more important than the possibility of LBing.<p>This is one of them.<p>You should not knowingly allow someone to come to harm simply because your formerly wayward spouse may disagree. You should seek to POJA the issue but in the end, you should do what is right. This is no different than may other issues that should happen regardless of whether or not you have "enthusiastic" agreement of your spouse (such as no contact or getting rid of an momentos of the OP).<p>It is imperative that the OPs spouse know the truth. The OMs wife never told me and I had to catch them together six months later. We would have saved SOOOO much hardship if I had known when she did. I would not knowingly let that same harm come to my worst enemy.<p>Do the right thing. Help protect this woman for the sin of her husband. Your lack of action, especially if it was still going on, is enabling and I would think that anyone that fails to act, much like in the case of a felony, is partly responsible for the continued crime/sin.

I guess I should post an update, since the question came up in another thread, and I never did follow up here. Ths may seem strange to those of you here who are religious and those who are not, but the bottom line is: I did not tell, because I got what I perceive to be three "No!"'s from God. I do not pretend to be far enough along spiritually to be sure of this, but here it is:

I prayed about this extensively. Wife said don't tell, the OM should. Her argument was that A: their chances for recovery are maximized if he tells, and B: some people would rather not know, and I did not know whether or not OM's W fell into that category. Not being the kind of person who would not want to know, this sounded ridiculous to me, so to prove my point, I asked a friend who had been in a similar situation. She said she would not have wanted someone else to tell her - she knew sub-consciously anyway. Surprised the heck out of me. I consider this God's first "NO." I talked to OM, and he refused to do tell his W voluntarily. No big surprise. I thought there was a passage of scripture that REQUIRED my wife to tell her. I read a commentary on that section of the Bible, and the commentator's comments were 90% from what I expected - in short, the meaning was completely irrelevant to our situation. I consider that God's second "No." Third, I talked with our Christian marriage counselor. He said "Your problem is your marriage, not theirs. The fact that you would like to know if you were in her situation is irrelevant. That is your need. Do not project it on to her. She may or may not feel the same way, but it is not your problem." I consider that God's third "No."

Am I completely comfortable with it? If for some reason our path's cross, I will find out if she is the " I'd rather not know" type, or not. If she is, I'll let it go completely. If not, I'll tell her. I no longer see any point in getting him to do it. If I force him to do it, I don't see how that is any benefit over my doing it directly.

I did call Harley when he was on the radio, and he said "Tell her". He also said he would put a Q&A column up on the topic, though I have not been able to find it. I did not consider this a Yes or a No from God, because I knew what he was going to say. I was just trying to see if he could come up with an argument strong enough to convince my wife for a POJA. He mentioned that he frequently could tell in counseling that one partner was having an affair, and during their time alone, he would confront the WS and demand that they tell. The difference between his situation and ours is that Harley is a marriage couselor. No-one came to see him unless there were problems. They could not say, like the OM did to me, that their marriage was OK from the spouse's perspective. I have no indications from what I know that the OM's spouse has any dis-satisfaction with their marriage at all (and yes I do have some data besides his claims, just not enough to be at all sure). I suppose the logical conclusion is that if I ever find out that they are seeing a counselor or that they are divorcing or separating I should give her a heads-up, too.

I have no indications from what I know that the OM's spouse has any dis-satisfaction with their marriage at all (and yes I do have some data besides his claims, just not enough to be at all sure). I suppose the logical conclusion is that if I ever find out that they are seeing a counselor or that they are divorcing or separating I should give her a heads-up, too.

You can't really say this because she doesn't know everything about her marriage.

He's probably just going to end up doing it again to her and aside from maybe putting her life in danger I really doubt she would want to be that 'poor little wife' that everyone talks about behind their hands.