I don't know if many of you remember when I first started posting here a few months ago. I had just ended an affair in order to work on my marriage. I first posted here in a very defensive mode. I was having a difficult time even seeing what was right in staying in my marriage. I've posted here off and on since then, but I've often read others' posts. I want to let you know some of the most important things I've learned here.<P>1. The inordinate pain that infidelity causes especially for the betrayed spouse. My H is very good at hiding his emotions but I know that inside he must feel many of the same things other betrayed spouses feel.<P>2. The similarities of emotions and actions that a betrayer goes through. And I thought my relationship was special! <P>3. The kindness shown here, even by those betrayed towards betrayers. I am amazed.<P>4. The hope and possibility of loving my H once again.<P>I want to thank all of you for teaching me these things. There's much more, but I will write a longer note another time. <P>TryingAgain

TryingAgain -- It sounds to me like you are finally heading in the direction you wanted. I am very happy for you.<P>God Bless

Hi TryingAgain - <P>Thanks for responding to my post "The long, lonely seige" earlier this morning. I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind.<P>I take it that you were the betrayer in your situation. You mentioned that there are a lot of similarities in what the betrayer goes through. I was wondering if you could give me a brief description of what it was like during the fantasy stage of your relationship. My W has spent nearly $15K, risks losing her well paying professional job, has completely alienated her entire family and friends, and has callous indifference toward me. She has said many extremely hurtful things toward me as though I were a disinterested third party. Can you help me try to get into her mind and what I might be able to expect? You can read my profile for a complete description of my situation. Thanks very much!

Shattered1,<P>I have to think about this response for a while and will write one at a later time. I do want to differentiate between your W's treatment of you and her other spending and alienating behaviors. It's the first where I see all the similarities. I believe the latter may be part of the same affair phenomenon but I haven't experienced that part of it. I'll write more later.

Shattered1,<P>One of the things I experienced in my situation was a genuine belief that I didn't love my H and had never truly loved him. I could not remember good times with him. All the difficulties in my marriage (and who doesn't have difficulties?) were amplified in my mind. At the same time I saw little fault with the OM. I was caught up in the excitement of being in love and that gave me a tremendous belief in myself, in the future (without H), and an enjoyment of life itself. I had never experienced such intensity of emotion before. It had to be right! At the same time that all this wonderful stuff was going on, I was feeling guilty and the guilt got worse each day. I was filled with anxiety about my H finding out and I started feeling insecure about the situation I was in.<P>Your wife is in the middle of the high of the affair and probably doesn't see anything but the good things in her life right now. But, I have a hunch that she will crash soon. I am wondering if there is a little more going on with your wife besides the OM. Her spending habits and complete disregard for her former life makes me wonder if she may have a tendency toward manic-depression.<BR>In any case, I think you are doing the right thing. If you love her, wait for her. Her situation is not very stable and she may come off her high and need you again. I wish you the best. You are in a difficult spot.<P>TryingAgain

Trying Again,<P>Thank you for this wonderful post. Also, your response to Shattered1 is right on the mark. I could have written the same thing myself. <P>Shattered1,<P>It embarrasses me now to admit how out of my mind I was about the OM. Your W is probably right where I was at one time. The OM can't do a thing wrong, and the H can't do a thing right. I've been on the receiving end of infidelity as well, and I know how it feels on both sides. It's hell. NO doubt about it. Your W's spending... I understand that too. There's a book called, "When Spending Takes the Place of Feeling" that is very, very good. I suspect your W has a problem, much like I have. I have an addictive personality and have been through the round of addictions throughout my life. Spending is one of my biggest problems and one that causes huge problems in my marriage. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: when trying again says that your W will crash, I think that's the truth of it. Eventually, the fantasy WILL end. The question will be: will you be there to pick up the pieces? That's what you have to figure out.<P>Best wishes to you as you continue this difficult journey...<P>and trying again, thanks again for a wonderful post!

TryingAgain/New Beginning - <P>Thank you so much for your responses to my questions. TryingAgain - it's interesting that you mention manic-depression...mental illness does run in her family. Her mother is on medication for what I beleive to be M/D.<P>Her family and I have discussed that possibility. When I went to the doctor to get anti-deps (wonderful drug Zoloft), I described W's behavior and the doctor told me that perhaps M/D is a contributing factor. The doctor went on to say that unfortunatelu, there is nothing anyone else can do if she is in a manic phase...she is unapproachable. We all have to wait until she goes into the depressive state...if and whenever that takes place.<P>What you describe about the "fantasy" is right on the money. W told me that this guy is her "soulmate" and that "God brought this man into my life". (I didn't remind her that God wrote the 7th commandment which contradicts her belief - big love buster I think.)<P>It is so difficult to watch this. W has filed for divorce and in Minnesota, quick divorces are common (it is a very liberal state). I feel that I'm in a "beat the clock" situation. I have always told myself that I would be able to take her back up until the time a divorce is final...if it goes final I will have to move on. It would be the straw that broke tha camels back for me.<P>I don't have any contact with her now unfortunately (she lives with OM in his new house...even her family has no idea where she is.) Everyone believes that the OM is a huge deceiver - probably has multiple misteresses in many countries. I'm not sure how much more I can take. Some days are better than others. I have reconnected into my faith (I have lapsed for many, many years) and have found strength in Christ. I now realize that this is going to go the direction God wants it to...not me. However, I pray that He brings her back into my life as I love her so much.<P>What was it that started your affair relationship to start to unravel? This guy apparently has $$ (I can't even begin to match that - won't even try) and I suppose W is flattered by the material stuff. If he is a smooth operator, what hope can I take that she will see her for who he is?<P>Thanks again for your support.

TryingAgain,<P>Your post is great. That's what life is all about ------- learning and growing. We all are in this process and those of us who can learn from our mistakes and hardships are ones who will not continue to repeat those mistakes. Good for you!<P>Shattered,<P>I posted to you on your thread. What is this guy doing in the U.S? Is he a diplomat or something? Or is he in private business? Does he know that you know? I wasn't at all kidding about contacting the INS. I don't think they'd take to kindly to this guy galavanting around with a citizen's wife. I am quite sure you could make things less convenient for him.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

New Woman - <P>I don't know much about him other than he's a foreigner, rich and his family (wife + for kids)lives in Germany. I caught a hint from my sister in law that the guy does not have a green card yet. Therefore, I suppose I could make life difficult for him if I wanted to.<P>I considered that, but also read in numerous books (Frank Pittman's comes to mind) that trying to make life difficult for the affair couple only drives the betrayer into the affair partner's arms more. Right now, I think my W would consider moving to the ends of the earth to be with this creep. Pittman, Harley, Springs et.al. all say that a romantic affair like this MUST run its course in order for it to end completely. I'm fairly confused right now...I'd LOVE to make life a living h*ll for this cretinous humanoid but I'm afraid that any interference on my part would be considered a HUGE lovebuster.<P>I'm more concerned whether my W is suffering from manic depressive illness. Her behavior is so out of character...even considering the fantasy state of mind she is supposedly in. This is why I'm so interested in what that fantasy is like and what I may expect to see as this plays out. Thanks for your perspective new woman!