This weeks Newsweek really hit a home run in covering this story. I could not wait to read this.

How many of the you were the parent who did and does say NO while other parent played the friend and enabler of "me, myself and I" and materialistic excess? Of course once separated, this is the hook where the "NO" Parent is denigrated and dismissed as the "wicked witch" .


One parental model is of a more conflict free way of living- self indulgence and no limits where many of these children do not develop a healthy self esteem(either under or overinflated egos). The other model provides limits and responsibility for choices and behaviour which lead to more conflicts, but fosters a more self confident youngster with a more positive self esteem.

This polar opposite between the life values of the parents lead to alienatation of the children from the only parent who has had any sense of parenting more appropriately. How many teens really want it all their own way? Didn't we when teens? So when given this opportunity what will the adolescents choose? Easy answer....

How many parents here are dealing with this issue in their home-where they say "NO"-age appropriately , while their X has no boundaries and enables and promotes the "spoilt brat" behaviour? Of course when real problems inevitably arise, the child is then often emotionally abandoned and it is the NO parent who the child turns to and needs to provide the facilitation/guidance necessary to move forward in a healthier manner.....until enticed and seduced again to embrace this hedonistic and materialistic lifestyle and the cycle is renewed!

Would a pattern exists where the WS is more likely to be the "me, myself and I" parent, especially once engaged in an affair while the BS is more of the "NO-parent"??

It is these children, in my most humble opinion, who are the most conflicted and confused and who have the most problems becoming independant adults with a solid core of inner values.

NO is one of the shortest and easiest words to say, but one of the most difficult to mean.

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: amnow.ok ]</small>

amnow.ok, Maybe you should run a poll. I think Betrayed Spouse versus Wayward Spouse is an over simplification.

And I think the question of boundaries and values is an intricate one that affects all divorced or separated couples to a lesser or greater extent.

Greengables
I thank you for your feedback and I have edited my post somewhat to reflect this. I do realize that the WS and BS is a very small part of this and many intact families struggle with this issue as well. It is once there is the breakdown of the marriage that these values can become so much further apart as neither parent's values and beliefs are tempered by the other's world view.

My marriage broke down because our values were so different. I'm not really talking the biggies like God and Family. I'm talking all the little ones. I like nice things. I spend money for them or work hard to make them and I take care of them. I'm materialistic. My H is not at all. He doesn't care about things, and because he doesn't care, he doesn't take care of them.

I'm a do-the-chores-first person. He's not. He thinks first we should stop and smell the roses... for several hours. Meanwhile, I want to weed, prune, spray and water the rose before I smell them!

My husband has no problem taking people up on any offer of hospitality. "You know the people who own a ski resort? Great, can you get us free tickets?" Me,I never, ever want to impose on anybody and go to great lengths to avoid it.

I value being part of a team, a community and fitting in. My H. is different.

I value making others happy. I don't think my H. does.

My h. values free time and spontanetity. I don't particularly.

What a mess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

By your description, my X would be the NO parent and I would be the permissible parent. However, I see it as a values question too.
X was/is strict with the kids, and they can't be kids. They feel they must be on perfect behavior at his house and are not allow to show emotions.
I believe kids will be kids, and allow them to express themselves emotionally. And boy do I get the meltdowns. I want my home to be a safe place for them.
Yes they have small chores, and I don't buy them everything they want, but they do have what they need.
Many parents see things differently. Just one more reason for D. I'm sure my X believes I allow them free rein. I believe I am reinforcing that they can have feelings, and that they do have choices in life - and choices come with repercussions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How many parents here are dealing with this issue in their home-where they say "NO"-age appropriately , while their X has no boundaries and enables and promotes the "spoilt brat" behaviour? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(Elan jumping up and down with her hand in the air!)

Example:
Elan: Sorry honey, we are saving money to pay the bills here. I cooked a big dinner and it's in the fridge ready to reheat. (This is when I was working evenings and the RARE time he would be home to watch the kids)

Ex-Piehead when Elan Arrives home: "Good, can we order pizza now? I'm starving!"

(kids looking on as starving children because Daddy dearest didn't feed the kids)

Elan: When we spoke on the phone I told you dinner was ready and all you had to do is reheat it!

Ex-Piehad looking at the kids with a big pout on his face: "I'm sorry kids, but YOUR mom doesn't want us to have pizza. We'll have to have what's left in the fridge."

YEP...just one other thing I do NOT MISS about him!

X doesn't get the major meltdowns I get after he drops them off on Sunday night. To see a 7 YO in a real temper tantrum so upset she can't get her breath will break your heart.
It must be hard to spend a weekend holding all emtions inside.
Rainbows class starts tonight. Yeah!

Thank you for the posts and insights, Greengables, Newly and Elan,

"NO" is also about values and how to value and respect other people. For me the confusion for my children is that they ranged from early to late teens when this started and the family,religious values, boundaries (blurred in some ways that they were) which we both imparted went out the window with X and his OW. However, since I did not give up these values and traditions and continued to do things the same way, X made it as conflictual as possible for the children to be all with me or with him together as a family at these "family" times or any other family celebration.

If a child chose a viewpoint that was similar to mine, if they ever disagreed with X,they were dismissed as "your mother has brainwashed you'. As long as they never disagree or state their mind, but accept the material rewards for their desires, then No is never uttered.

In my home the full range of emotions, anger and so much misery has been displayed.....what a mess!

It is a difficult line between giving your children a good life and teaching them to develop an inner core of values and morality and to take responsibility for their choices and behaviour. X has no clue, but whatever I do parentally, it is debased and negated.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is a difficult line between giving your children a good life and teaching them to develop an inner core of values and morality and to take responsibility for their choices and behaviour. X has no clue, but whatever I do parentally, it is debased and negated. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So well said. *Difficult* though is a bit mild, more like *impossible* at times (ok....most times! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) All we can do is be the best parents that we can be. Live by example. My kids claim they HATE Christmas because of the huge mess it is. I am a parent that has chosen to GIVE him the kids for the whole holidays. The kids are in shock. I told them I am tired of fighting, and if he wants it his way, then so be it. I want MY Christmas to be peaceful, a time of celebration. We are planning our Christmas a week before. I can do at least that.

There are parents that celebrate the holidays with different traditions that are not *moveable*. I understand that and pass on my hugs to those that have to deal with someone that just cannot possibly relate to reality. I try to understand his line of thinking and it's just impossible because it is sick. The man is sick. How can one understand mental illness? They can't -- so, we just hope and pray and model the best behaviour that we can for our children. If that's the *worst* that I can do (model good behaviour <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , then the ex is just going to have to swallow it. Who knows...maybe some of this (morals, values, behaviour) will rub off on the kids.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am a parent that has chosen to GIVE him the kids for the whole holidays. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...and before everyone jumps on me...it was discussed with the kids and we think this might be a viable solution, on the condition that they come to me next year for the holidays. I can bet you though that they will want to be home before the holidays are out. He can't handle them for a weekend, nevermind a week. He thinks in his mind of this Christmas holiday picture, where the family is all loving and smiles. Reality is, the man is not capable of doing ANYTHING without yelling or putting people down, so I don't think it's going to be very picturesque!