H has prematurely (based on what he had agreed to) moved in with OW, and won't be coming home to us. The kids think he is on a business trip for another week, and expect him home just like normal next weekend. He came home early, snuck back into town to be with OW (they have a hotel until they can find a place to rent). I accidentally ran into him, thats how I found out. I am in total shock, a constant dull pain. (OK - sometimes sharp)

Now my main focus is what is best for the kids, whether to tell them myself while he is gone, or to wait, and have my H and I tell them together, as we originally planned. We were going to tell them, give them a few days before he moved out. But OW & H are now "shacked up" for lack of a better term, since OW has also just left her H and has no place to go. So H must stay at her side, and get them settled in somewhere etc, like the considerate, responsible mate he wants to be for OW.

This means that our original plan is out the window, even if I wanted him here for a few days to keep up appearances. OW does not want him staying here ever again, and my H defers to her every wish it seems. And what do you say about the fact that daddy is living with his lover? They are 10 & 14, old enough to understand. I do not want them spending the night with my H with her there. But they need to know why they can't spend the night, they may run into them somewhere, they may hear from friends. How do you tell them, and still not place blame, which is one of the major things all the counselors, books etc tell you not to do?

All of the professional advice is that you don't give them details, you say something like "mommy and daddy don't love each other any more, so daddy is leaving". But my kids have only seen a happy, loving mom & dad, even up through last weekend when we were in NYC together for a family weekend. Last family trip together ever, it seems, after 14 years. OW played her card this week and H has jumped ship to be with her, has no desire to come home ever again, will get his stuff while the kids are at school etc.

Anyway, what do I tell them, or what should we tell them, if its better for it to come from the two of us, to minimize their trauma but still be as honest as possible to them? I am at a loss under these circumstances, what to do.

Any suggestions from those who have been there?

<small>[ October 11, 2004, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Everhopeful ]</small>

Hi Everhopeful,
Much depends on how the two of you can interact with each other. I can only speak from my personal experience as I am not a professional counselor. If the two of you can be civil with each other and you both know how important it is that you both have an active role in your childrens lives it is my opinion that you do it together.

It is very difficult not to lay blame where it obviously belongs. But you know what ? You don't have to. As much as you want to don't do it. I've slipped a couple of times myself and I felt good for about one minute then I felt horrible for doing it. Believe me with the ages of your kids they will soon figure it all out for themselves without any help from you. Then it will be up to your husband to figure out how to handle it. He can be a man and admit to his kids what he did or he can blame you.

As long as the OW is involved 90% of what comes out of his mouth will be coming directly from her. Does she have kids too ?

I'm getting ready to go to a wedding so I will try to write more later. Say a prayer, get some rest, take care of your kids..

God Bless you

David A

My WS told our boys---they are adults and there was no way that I would take that whole responsibility on myself.

Have you talked this over with your WS? Are you both able to discuss what is best for the kids? I would not care what OW likes and doesn't like.

I fear if you tell them yourself---you could come out lookin like the wicked witch of the west or they may not believe you and think you are causing trouble if you don't choose your words carefully.

Is it true that you both do not love each other any more?
I never told my kids that. We do still love each other but love without commitment will not keep a marriage together.
TW

Hmmm....yes, I think it is still better to tell them together. I don't think the "we don't love each other anymore" will fly, because the fact is, we do still love each other, and the kids have always, even the last time we were all together as a family last weekend, seen us as an affectionate couple. But the fact is, I think, that my H doesn't love me the way he loves OW. H will say in a heartbeat " I love you and I always will, you are a beautiful person" Guess what, blah blah blah, all that means to me is "I love you like my favorite dog, my comfortable pair of jeans. But not like the passion I feel for OW"

But again, how do we (I) tell them about OW? Maybe this goes on the back burner for a while, hoping that they do not run into daddy and his girlfriend in the meantime. I want to protect them from this scenario, if there is even a chance of it happening, but then again, just the fact that he is leaving will be shocking and painful enought for starters.

Anyway, I am torn - if H doesn't come back home, like it sounds like he won't, I need to tell the kids something, don't I? (duh) But I do think the responsibility is also my H's, and that telling them myself only relieves him of the pain of facing them with his decision. Again, the hardest thing is to put their REAL welfare first, not to put my H through the ordeal that telling them will cause him. One way or another, they have to be told why daddy is not coming home. I want to protect them, but maybe daddy is the one that should explain "why", he is not coming home. And one way or another, I do think they will figure it out, regardless of what is said. 10 & 14 - they are bright, sensitive kids, and will figure this out for themselves, regardless of how it is sugarcoated to make things more comfortable for my H to leave his family.

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Everhopeful ]</small>

Ever,

Honestly, I think you need to let HIM be the one to tell the kids on his own--without you being there--
let him deal with the fall out on his own--

it's his choice to leave let HIM be the one to tell if they meet OW now, they aren't stupid--they will know why he left their family--and they won't want to see him--and they will resent her and him--but that is NOT YOUR problem--it's theirs--

If you want to be there--do NOT back your husband in his choice--let your kids know IT IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT---because You love their dad very much--
and although this is his choice--you do NOT agree with it--

The sad thing is--because the kids see you two all lovely dovey and playing the happily married couple--they will be confused about love--and yes, you are "playing" the happily married couple by being all lovely dovey in front of your kids--
your trying to keep up the appearances of a LIE!!

In other words--Your helping and encouraging his lies, not only to YOU, but to your kids--and you will destroy their trust in YOU by making them think everything in their family is picture perfect between mom and dad--

by living a lie--that you are both so much in love--your prolonging your own pain--he may love you--but HE has to make a choice without your putting on a show that your the happy little wife--when in reality--YOUR NOT!!

So stop lying to yourself--and your kids--
about the reality of your family--being happy--

In my opinion, he needs to be the one to tell. I read your post the other day about the OW brazenly telling someone about the situation with your H. They are totally self absorbed, it's sickening. Why should you shoulder the burden of telling the kids such heart breaking news? You aren't the one leaving, you aren't the one acting like you are 40 going on 16.

Regardless of whether your M has a chance or not, he is the one leaving, he should tell. What's so hard about that? (To him I mean, what's he scared of?? Really? He seems so sure of his decision, ya know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )


Best of luck to ya hun, I really feel for you.

Well, H told me his plan this morning. Gets back from his trip, goes to his new place to be with her the first night. (yes, they rented something over the weekend)

Comes over Sunday morning and pretends like he just flew in. We tell the kids the story about nobodies fault, and then he tells them he is going to be staying in a hotel for a while. He comes over every night this week to see how they are doing, and then tells them he is going to the hotel, when he is going home to OW and their new place.

I am sorry, but I don't think I can go along with this, regardless of the fact that he needs to be there when we tell them. I think I am going to have to tell them the truth - Daddy doesn't want to be married and is leaving. And a few days after that sinks in, I have to tell them that daddy's got a girlfriend, and they may run into them together. I wonder when he plans to tell them she is living with him? I did reitterate that I don't want them exposed to her the first 6 months. But I can tell that he and she want to get the kids integrated into their lives ASAP.
Hope I can get something in the divorce settlement that will address this, even though I guess he will do what he wants. Its just not in the kids best interest, and he needs to accept that. Of course, the way this went down with him jumping ship prematurely and moving right in with her, kind of threw our original plan about their best interest out the window. I don't want to lie to my kids, and I don't think I want to cover for my H as he tries to make this look prettier than it is.

EH-
I agree with you - it is better not to lie to the kids. They are old enough to figure it out for themselves, and then they would know that you lied.
You are right too that your H is all ready going against your wishes, and he is clearly doing everything OW tells him to do. I am sure that OW has figured out that she needs to get the kids involved in order to make everything appear "normal" and to prove to your H that "kids are resilant and will get over it". That is the only way she can convince him that this is all going to "work out and be ok".

Eh - my heart is breaking for you. But IMO you are on the right track. The kids need to hear the truth.
I also doubt that your H will keep that home wrecker away from them for 6 months. She is going to push to "meet the kids".

I think you need to tell H flat out "I can not lie, we need to just tell them now and get it over with, this dragging it out business is not healthy for me, or for the kids, and it is time to consider US in all of this."

That R is a speeding train wreck - I would bet everything I have that it will crash and burn. But you need to think of the kids right now.
he is NOT thinking of the kids - that crap about coming home early and not even telling you, until you run into him at work - that is HORRIBLE.
Stand up - tell him that you want to support him but simply can NOT lie for him. The kids are going to see you break down - how in the world will that support his line about "we both agree to this?"
Praying for you EH.

Don't lie for him, don't sugar coat for him. What have you got to lose at this point, really?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by findingmywayback:
<strong> Don't lie for him, don't sugar coat for him. What have you got to lose at this point, really? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree. Do what is best for your kids....NOT you cheating, lying husband and his cheating, lying girlfriend. Why sugar coat it? Like you said, your kids are old enough to understand....well, let them understand the truth, not a lie. Treat them with dignity and respect, something that you husband is NOT doing. This is not going to be easy for them no matter what.

Tell them the truth...the whole truth at one time....and make it clear to them that they will NOT spend the night in that house while your husband and the OW are shacking up.

And yes, I do believe you can get something put in your divorce settlement that states that.

Another vote for NOT lying!

20 years ago I told someone I would not lie so he could hide his behavior (this was an executive in a company I worked for.) I ended up quitting, but he ended up getting fired eventually. I never forgot that experience, and am as sure today as I was then that I was doing the right thing. I did plan it out carefully so I would say what I wanted to say, and still end up feeling good about how I handled it. If I had it to do over again, I would do that way again.

Too often we think we should not avoid making other people uncomfortable, and should not make waves. Even when it means helping them cover up what makes them uncomfortable. Just say NO!

My counselor agrees 100% that we have to be totally honest with the kids. So I will tell them this week that dad does not want to live with mommy anymore and is moving out, which has nothing to do with how much we both love them.

When my H comes by to do his bit, he should tell them about OW, and if he doesn't, my counselor says that I should.

The thing is, by telling them that daddy is already living with his girlfriend, doesn't this just pave the way for him to say "Hey, they already know about her, so why can't they meet her?" I really need to push to get this 6 month "no contact" agreement in our parenting agreement. But I need to find a mediator who agrees.

Everhopeful,

My children were about the same age as yours are when my exH left us to move out-of-state with his OW. At the time, I thought that we would tell them together, and they would be devastated. Instead, we told them together, and they were not surprised or outraged. They knew it was coming (kinda) and they acted like, "You interrupted my day for this?"

I was surprised by their reaction, but looking back on it now, it makes sense. Our children are more preceptive than we give them credit for, and even though we tried, they knew that something was up. They did not know the OW, but they knew that dad was going to leave and that he didn't love me anymore. They are children, so they do not fully comprehend the ins and outs of what an "affair" is and what it means to a marriage--so they did not feel the betrayal and outrage that I felt--yet they did know things weren't good between us.

Finally, when you do tell the children, I would strongly encourage that you both be completely honest with them. If your H does not want to tell them about the OW, do not give him the option of abandoning his commitments without consequences. You children's best interests must come first, and more than anything they need to know that ONE parent at least will be completely honest with them even if it's hard. Don't cut him down in an LB kind of way--but don't make it easy on him. Transparent honest--let them see why he is choosing to leave them.


CJ

Ever--

Do yourself a favor--and stop trying to protect your husband and the OW--

Does YOUR family know about this affair?? does HIS?? If not--TELL THEM call them first thing in the morning and TELL THEM!!

Let me explain to you why he doesn't want everyone knowing about this--because it continues HIS FANATASY WORLD that what HE is doing is OKAY---but deep down He knows if everyone else knows--he is going to look like the bad guy--

He doesn't want to look like the bad guy--BUT HE IS!! He is destroying TWO Families by his actions--and EVERYBODY needs to know it--

And as long as YOU help keep his little secret--
you are helping him have his affair--and helping him lie to everyone around him--

he needs to be held accountable for his actions--
and you don't need to PROTECT HIM---HE IS NOT PROTECTING YOU or YOUR KIDS!!

I know you mentioned before he was sleeping in your bed when he was home last--did you have sex with him by chance??? If so, you better have yourself tested---because you have no idea if this man has brought YOU home any diseases--have you even considered that???

Things like this are what most people don't think about when their spouse has an affair--they don't look at the reality of the consequences of the actions--you could test postitive for something medicine won't cure because of HIS affair--

So don't lie for him--stop protecting him--He hasn't thought to protect YOU in all of this mess--

I have to say I agree with Faithful. I was 16 when my parents had this talk with us. It came as no shock to me, and I knew it was becuase of another woman. Knew exactly who it was too. The thing is, my parents never seemed to get along, I was relieved. My dad was never happy at home, we hated it when he was there. He moved temporarily to his office, taking only his recliner and his clothes. That lasted about a week or two then he was living with OW. Big shock there, no of us saw that coming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I couldn't stand them, refused to go over there, and made them very uncomfortable. You could tell, my dad was extremely uncomfortable around me for some time. I was quiet, and removed. I didn't like the way things had been done. They weren't made for each other, that's fine, but it could have been handled in a nicer manner by my father. Oh, and he never married the OW. Long story but, she turned out not to be his type. Just someone who was there when he was ready to leave and he needed taking care of.

He did years later feel a great deal of guilt when my mom died from cancer. He felt like he didn't even try back then. Bottom line though, they weren't very compatible. I couldn't have seen them lasting that long.

I told you about my parents to show you kids really are perceptive to what is going on. I hoped against all hope he wouldn't marry that wench, and he never did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Mainly because of the pain I saw my mom go thru over it, I didn't want the OW to somehow win, and she didn't.

(I had other reasons for not liking her too, like her two snotty brats! That's a whole other story...)

Talk to your kids, treat them like they are young adults with minds. They will appreciate you for it. I wish my parents had!

Double Post

<small>[ October 05, 2004, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: findingmywayback ]</small>

Well.....I told the kids on Thursday - "Daddy is not happy being married to me, which makes me unhappy, so Daddy is getting a place of his own."
My 10 year old daughter went to pieces screaming "Daddy, daddy, no, please daddy!" over and over again as I held her. The most heart wrenching thing I have ever been through. My 14 year old was stoic, comforting his sister, even asked how I was doing. I only cried a little. Of course I reassured them about both us loving them, wasn't their fault and they would still see Daddy often. My daughter's first question was "will we stay here?" And then she called a friend, and basically calmed down. Next day, they seemed fine, went to school, no tears that night. The only question was - "where is daddy living?" Its only a mile or so away. I asked them if this was a surprise to them and they said it was. So much for them figuring it out due to all his irratic behavior the last 3 months.

H came over yesterday and spent 4 hours with the kids. They were thrilled to see him, and acted totally normal, no tears, no questions. He moved some clothes and personal items out. Before he left, he told them that he had a roommate. Period. We thought the girlfriend revelation might be too much, but want to make sure if they run into the 2 of them, it wouldn't be a total shock. I think they would recognize her anyway from before.

So after he left we talked a little. I admitted that it was sad for me that daddy won't be staying the night and cried a little, my daughter cried too. But he will be picking them up from school and staying an hour or so 2-3 nights a week. Since he has been traveling so much, this does not feel that much different to them, and they are pleased that they will see him actually more than they have in the last month.

No questions or comments about the "roommate".
We talked about how this is better than daddy living at home and worrying about where he is, what time he will come home, and why we can't reach him on his sell. My daughter's one comment?
"I guess his roommate will be the one to worry about that now." Hmmm. They aren't saying so, but they must know that room mate means girl friend, don't you think?

Anyway, they seem to be taking it very, very well, without any anger at daddy whatsoever. Guess this is healthier for them, but he certainly is getting off the hook with this emotionally. No tears, no anger, just happy to see him and tell him all the news about school etc. I will have to admit it was horrible for me to see him drive off to be with her.

I feel like I am in the eye of the hurricane. The last 2 months got worse and worse building up to his leaving and me telling the kids. We will start mediation next week and I know it will not be pleasant, as he is already grumbling about what this will cost him. So maybe we have one week or so of pleasant contact before things get ugly. Maybe we can get through the negotiations without it getting really ugly, but H really has no idea what its all about. Thinks if he gives me the house and the 401 K he shouldn't have to pay me another penny, I should figure out how to pay the mortgage myself.

So thats the update. Trying to keep busy, take care of myself, be with alot of friends. Not as miserable as I thought I would be. Wish I was not still in love with him though. Habit I guess.

No tears, no anger, just happy to see him
No tears and no anger YET. I guarantee it. He is not getting off easy - he just isn't to the next stage yet.

Continue to take the high road, to do all the right things. Little by little the kids will see how things are different now. He is going to come around a lot right now, but slowly he will back off, and that is when the kids will start to see this A for what it truly is.
How can I be so sure? your H has followed the script right down to the letter so far, and right now he is playing out the scene where he tries to spend a lot of time with the kids just to prove that he will still "be there for them". But the next scene goes like this:
OW starts complaining that he is gone so much, leaving her alone, and after all "I thought we were supposed to be together." Also, this new life style starts to wear him out. Going to work, rushing to pick up the kids, spending a couple of hours with them, rushing home because OW is whining about him being gone so much. He will start to say "I am too tired to pick up the kids today - could you do it?"
I do not want to scare you - I am not usually the "doom and gloom" type. I just want you to be prepared,and I want you to take heart. He has not gotten off easy just yet.
The kids have certainly figured out that there is more to this roomate then he is saying.
One other thing I will predict - even when WH is with the kids, OW will call on his cell, and send him text messages. There will be a million litte reasons why she just has to call or message him.
But you and I are women, and we know the truth. She will feel like she has to be in his face, and on his mind at all times. She will be calling and controlling, in her attemt to make sure he doesn't change his mind again. But her clinginess and controlling ways will eventually get really old for him too.

I think you did well with the kids. Good for you. Try to do something nice for yourself today.

Dear WOF,

Thanks for the reply. I totally agree with your predicted scenario. Guess we will see how this plays out, and its much too soon to tell. I will say this - H originally said he would be over in the AM to see the kids. Then he changed it to noon. The night before he changed it to 1pm, and then called daughter to say he was running late and it would be closer to 2pm. What does that tell you about OW already pulling at him at a time like this - when they haven't seen daddy in 2 weeks, much less the fact that they have just been told he is moving out?

Anyway, one day at a time. The kids are great, and I am doing OK. I kinda feel sorry for my H, but not really.

Everhopeful,

I want to echo what WOF5 said--it may temporarily seem like he has "gotten off the hook easily" for the moment, but trust me when I say that he has not. If you remember, my kids were about your kids' ages when my exH left us. At the time, I was so upset because from all outer appearances, it seemed as if he had actually gotten away with it: erased his b*tchy wife, lost his costly kids, and gotten OW who was his true love and who "understood him." Meanwhile, I was left to deal with the tears...the bills...the mortgage...the creditors...and kids who seemed to act as if they were "unaffected" from losing their dad.

Here's how it all turned out:

The love of his life had FOUR KIDS all under the age of 8yo (ours were 10yo and 13yo at the time), and she constantly had him babysit. HE HATED IT.

Within six months, the love of his life kicked him out and sent him back "packing".

The kids acted okayish at first--after all, dad did a lot of traveling and they didn't have to move, etc. HOWEVER, they did cry at night or ask "didn't he love me?" and he never had to hear that. Now and then, the kids would act out and since I was WITH them all the time, I knew it was a trigger reaction--triggered because someone teased them at school about having no father, etc. Of course, exH maintained they were "doing fine" and that they ever were HAPPY to have us not be a family anymore!

ExH no longer had my help to finish work in his company, so he lost all his clients but three--the only three he could handle all by himself.

The kids and I moved into a smaller townhouse and we all three picked it together. The kids were THRILLED to finally have a voice in where they lived, what they wanted, and when to move. They got to decorate their own rooms, and even PICK their own rooms! Never got to do that before!

The kids and I decided to dedicate our house to peace and respect. We made up our own family rules that we all three agreed on, and they were THRILLED to finally have a voice in the rules! They got to say what THEY thought without being ridiculed or belittled. It was exciting.

The kids and I decided to add some COLOR to our home and so we do not have a beige, tan, and camel home. We have black and maroon and forest green and adobe and country blue and daffodil yellow and royal purple...WE chose our own colors!

I had a job for a little while that fed, clothed and housed us, and I was very happy to be able to take care of us all that way...but this summer when I lost that job at first I was worried because I have an obligation! But I decided to wait for a job I LOVE rather than just "pays the rent", and now I just got a promotion to General Manager at an Angel Store. I work with my employees--with vendors--do ordering, shipping and receiving--serve my customers--and speak to people ALL DAY LONG about spiritual things. I am surrounded by bosses and co-workers and friends who support me and encourage me and challenge me to do more than I think I can, and I LOVE my job!!!!!!

My exH is slowly killing himself. He is diabetic and takes pills but usually forgets them and then eats sugary stuff anyway--or forgets to eat for days on end. He is bipolar and BPD, and refuses to go to treatment or counseling, and his distorted thinking is slowly taking away his job, his friends, his co-workers and everyone. His manic rages are still not under control, so he rages at whoever is near: employees, children, bosses, whoever. His family does not care enough about him to step in and have an intervention. He works 20 hours per day until he is so drop-dead exhausted that he's sick. He just can not physically keep this up or he will kill himself.

And the kids...the kids are doing medium-well.

My son has ADHD and is a distracted math genius in his own words! heehee. He has had a few girlfriends now, and we have had EXCELLENT discussions about how to have a healthy relationship and how to respect a girl. He goes to a counselor now and then because he gets upset and depressed about how his dad continues (to this day) to not be there for him and just sort of behave as if my son is disposable. Son and dad barely have a relationship because my son is a kid and he's tired of being the mature one!

Daughter is a beautiful girl who managed to keep her mind and spirit through the tween-age years when lots of girls "copy everyone else". She is strong-willed, energetic, and empathetic--but she also learned to be responsible for too much (like other people's feelings) and then rolls her eyes if I try to talk to her about it. Daughter and dad see each other once a week, and she says, "When dad says he'll do something, most of the time he doesn't follow through...but if you say you'll do something, most of the time you follow through or die trying."

So Everhopeful, it may SEEM as if he is "winning" right now and he's getting away with destroying your family and walking away scott free with a new love...but he's not. It may take the kids a while to see it, but they will see it. Let them see it on their own...from their own experiences...and you just keep being that responsible mama that you are! They WILL see which parent is there for them--and which one blows them off, I guarantee. They will see which parent promises to buy them stuff and then never does--and which one skrimps and saves and then really buys it for them. They will see which parent knows all their friends' names and their classes and their teachers--and which one doesn't. They will see which parent buys a vacation for themself while telling their kids they can't afford to get them a new coat. They WILL see it!!


CJ