Let's discuss something incredibly uncomfortable BUT something that SHOULD be discussed OPENLY.

I was TRUE to my marriage and never fooled around, not so much as a stolen kiss (other than kissing a male neighbor on the cheek with his wife present on New Year's Eve)...you get the idea.

When my marriage broke down it was because of extreme mental, emotional abuse. Once I went into therapy and discovered that I was also sexually abused (that means ladies, when you were damn tired and ready to drop and the husband demanded what was rightfully his, or insisted on having certain things performed/acted---whatever you want to call it *are we all uncomfortable yet?*) So, bottom line, I took the plunge and separated...he continued and filed for divorce. It was NOT because I found out he was having an affair. It wasn't until MONTHS later that I found out he was sleeping around and probably had been sleeping around for many of the years I was married.

Flash forward to 2004.... sleeping around, having sex, playing with someone (and by that I don't mean checkers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) Touching and cuddling and oral gratification, CAN HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF TRANSMITTING A SEXUAL DISEASE. (sheesh...I KNEW this when I was married, obviously the ex did NOT)

K...now let's talk about women and PAP tests (especially for men who don't know about it and women who SHOULD know more about it). What a pap test is for is to test for irregularities of cells on the cervix. (That's the part that's at the end you guys...where babies come out of, where you fella's might feel is the *end*) So those cells are scraped off once a year, pasted onto a microscope slide and examined to see if there are any irregularites. Don't get squeamish guys -- it's just *uncomfortable* it's not something that hurts, I think most of it is because some stranger is between your legs with a spatula doing something you'd rather have your lover do in the confines of your home and not on some flat deck they call an examining table with your heels into stirrups.

Once these cells become abnormal -- it has the potential of developing into cancer (it CAN develop, or it may NOT devlope...it's one of those 50/50 things). The reason for these cells to become abnormal is by contracting HPV. HPV is Human Papillomavirus (now you know where they get "pap" from) Now they don't tell us women about HOW you develop abnormal cells, but they tell us to have regular yearly checkups once we become sexually active.

HPV is a virus that is spread through sex of close skin-to-skin, genital area contact with someone who is infected. There are different types of HPV that can cause differnt problems and many people can be infected with HPV and not know it. Some kinds of HPV can cause genital warts other types lead to cancer. (thus if they *DIDN'T* have sex with the other person, meaning penetration, but heck....they were playing touchy, feely, they STILL PUT YOU AT RISK!) The cervix is the most common place in females to be infected with HPV. It's not like women are covered in warts. When the cervix is effected with HPV changes occur to the cells of the cervix. ALMOST ALL CERVICAL CANCERS ARE CAUSED BY HPV. A pap test is the best way to check if cells of the cervix have changed. If your cervix has precancerous or cancerous changes you may not have any symptoms. HAVE A PAP TEST!

BOTH MEN AND WOMEN CAN BE CARRIES OF THE VIRUS WITHOUT ANY SIGNS OR SYMPTOMS. HPV CAN REMAIN CLINICALLY SILENT OR LATENT, YET STILL BE TRANSMITTED TO SEXUAL PARTNERS.

An estimated 70 percent of individuals with HPV may be unaware that they are infected because their lesions are not noticeable or because they have not developed warts. SEVENTY PERCENT!!!! That's a whole lot of you out there that may have HPV and not even know it. Men can be carriers without knowing. Like my ex was. Who he picked it up from no one knows....but whoever else he was with he transmitted it to.

So it's not like HIV....I'm not going to die...but these cells *could* develop into cancer (something no one EVER wants). Any man who is with a woman with HPV will NOT develop cancer, but COULD develop genital warts or not. Anyone who is having a sexual relationship (right now, whether it be new or old), please, please take care of yourself. If you are not sure of their history and your relationship has developed to the point where you are having sexual relations (and I won't go into my moral speech here about having sex outside of marriage) PLEASE read up on STD's and how they can be transmitted. Be aware of sexual health and how it can affect you.

For those of you ending a relationship from an affair. PLEASE have yourself tested for AIDS and any transmittable STD.

Elan,

Thank you for bringing this topic up. Unfortunately, HPV is a virus that is just now getting public exposure, as very little was known about it before.

I would like to add a few things. Approximately 30% of the population carries HPV. There are hundreds of strands of HPV, and while some are indeed sexually transmitted (causing genital warts, abnormal cervical cells, cancer in situ, etc) there are also strands that are not sexually transmitted (causing pencil warts, plantar warts, etc). HPV can be contracted, and lay dormant for years without being 'active.' During this time, the carrier may not have any idea they are indeed a carrier.

It is important to know that this virus can be contracted from sexual activity not only from an EMA, but also from partners even prior to M. For instance, a person could contract HPV in their early 20's from a BF/GF and not have any symptoms. They can carry the virus and later get M, transmit to S, at which point both S are carriers. The virus can activate at any time.

For that reason, just because you have HPV does not necessarily mean your S had an EMA
That is, unless both of you had not ever been sexually active with anyone other than your S.

I would also like to clarify that this virus can **in very rare cases** cause penile cancer in males. This scenario is very rare. But it is possible, and does deserve mentioning.

Thank you, Elan, for making this message known. In most cases, HPV is relatively harmless, and very treatable. However, it is extremely important for women to visit their OB/Gyn or PCP for a well woman's check up EVERY YEAR.

Wishing everyone well.

It's sad to consider what your spouse can bring home.
I did have all the tests post divorce. It took me a while to ask my doctor, but she knew about the D, and I wanted to be sure. Thankfully, nothing came up and I have the peace of mind of knowing this.

I have recently gone through surgical biopsies of my cervics and uterus to remove severely changed cells and look for cancer. I've read up on HPV. Some of the info from the OP is incorrect.

First of all, as many as 80% of all sexually-active women are infected with HPV. Most have no symptoms. It can be transmitted without sexual penetration and it can even be picked up from a toilet seat. 60% of children tested in a research study had HPV virus on their hands. If you are infected with HPV -- and the odds are you will be -- it does NOT mean your partner had an affair. It is very common. Most doctors don't even tell their patients that they are infected.

The immune system can usually keep HPV in check. Times of stress and smoking and other illness give HPV a chance to affect normal cells. But we won't know we've had cell changes until a pap comes back indicating such.

This is why annual paps are so important. Cervical cancer is very scary -- but very treatable. In my case I did not have cancer. The doc removed all the affected cells during surgery and hopefully they won't come back. Women who do get cervical and/or uterine cancer are usually treated with a hysterectomy. Most do not require chemotherapy.

50% of cervical cancers are attributed to strains of HPV.

A new vaccine is in testing. A group of women who received the vaccine 4 years ago had 95% fewer cases of cervical cancer than the general poplulation. Merck produces the vaccine and it may be available soon. This news has brought HPV into the limelight recently.

Some good info here:
http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-bhgyncancer

Bottom line, all women should get annual paps and if you have HPV, don't file for divorce.

<small>[ November 02, 2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: W8ing4signs ]</small>

I wish the hospital told me that information. They said it was from skin to skin, sexual contact (as does the little pamphlet they gave me). My abnormal cells appeared the same time he was *seeing* someone and admitted to everything *except penetration*. So in my cause, I highly doubt I got it from a toilet seat or a child.

Sorry...don't mean to be defensive, but I too did the AIDS test and the like after we split, apparently it wasn't enough. What's damn scarey is 90% of cancers of the cervix are from HPV. Gee...wonder what the last 10% risk is?

Statistically speaking --- 90%, 80%, 70% or whatever per cent -- every website that I read have different statistics. The statistics really mean nothing personally to me. What means the most to me is the man that I loved and wanted to be with for the rest of my life put me at RISK. He now puts every other woman he sleeps with at RISK. Really doesn't make me want to run into another relationship.

So ladies -- and gentleman.... please, please be sure of who you sleep with. It's not a safe world out there.

FUNNY THING IS IT HAPPENED TO ME TOO. He says he was faithful! and I never knew that was why they tested us every year. an irregularity, and my dr says maybe you should have an hiv test.....gee do you think?

is it a possiblity that the irregularity (benign but if it changes I should have it frozen) could have been there for 21 years? I do not as I have had tests done and 2 pregnancies during all that time. but is it a possiblity? I see my dr again this month I think I will ask her.

But as for my feelings about it. I am almost glad as it proves it to me. He is such a good liar he will deny this to the end.

Thanks for the post. I did not know alot of that info until you posted it the other day then I thought about it not sure about my feelings.

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Stone Cold ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Elan:
<strong> I wish the hospital told me that information. They said it was from skin to skin, sexual contact (as does the little pamphlet they gave me). My abnormal cells appeared the same time he was *seeing* someone and admitted to everything *except penetration*. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, most commonly it is transmitted sexually, but it isn't the only way. Ask your doctor when you became infected with HPV. It is very possible that you were infected years ago -- and your doc didn't tell you -- and the cell changes didn't happen until you were under the stress of the affair and could no longer keep the HPV infection in check. My point is that unless you were both virgins when you married, you cannot blame your husband for your HPV infection. I know it might feel better to do so now if you've chosen divorce.

ok so I read all the additions after I posted. But abnormal cervical cells would show up in a pap smear before 20 years was up, correct?

and I really don't belive abnormal crevical cells is caught from a toilet seat, maybe gential warts. but not so deep in you as your crevix.

what do you think?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stone Cold:
<strong> But abnormal cervical cells would show up in a pap smear before 20 years was up, correct?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not necessarily. Many women have HPV and never have symptoms and never have cell changes. It all depends on how your body fights the virus. Remember, 80% of all women will be infected in their lifetime. Few will get cancer.

I was infected with my first husband (first lover) and had no abnormal paps until we had been together for 10 years. Back then the dysplasia was mild and six months later a repeat pap was normal. My body fought it off.

Yes, my husband cheated on me. BUT he was also very sexually experienced when he married this virgin bride and so who knows when he became infected and gave it to me. Are men tested? No. Can I blame him? What good would it do?

Now -- 15 years post HPV infection -- I've had a new marriage, a new son, a custody battle, thyroid problems, sleep problems and some other big stress. My immunity took a shot down and I could no longer fight the virus. My last pap came back as severe and I had to go for a surgical biopsy to remove all the bad cells and look for cancer.

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: W8ing4signs ]</small>

thanks for your honest recount. I know my husband cheated on me also. It kinda felt good to have some sort of proof oh well I know in my heart.

and stress could have accounted for my outbreak also. after all as hired help said I was in no way a virgin when we met! lol.

Sadly, I can speak on this topic from experience. My ex husband was the only man I ever slept with. He came into the marriage with a pretty long sexual experience list. (my first clue?!) He cheated on me twice during our 8 year marriage (I didn't know about the first affair until after the divorce.) I had normal pap smears every year of our marriage. Fast forward to a year post divorce, (and probably 16 months since I had last slept with him) and low and behold, I was diagnosed with dysplasia caused by HPV. Now I KNOW he was the only one who could've given it to me. What I can't prove is if his affairs caused it, or if it lay dormant in me for several years. My dr. said he treated a woman whose husband had been dead for 15 years and she hadn't been with anyone since, with normal paps each year until the last one, 15 years after he died! I also heard varying statistics about how many people have it, but it doesn't change the fact that I have an STD and have to tell a future husband about it. That makes me mad. I have the kind that isn't warts (thank God!) but is the highest risk for cervical cancer. I've had suspect areas cut of out of my cervix, and have to have Pap smears frequently. This is a good thing to bring up, because no one thinks it could happen to them, and I don't even know what test the man takes to test for it. I guess if a man requested an STD screen, they would test for it there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by WhoamInow:
<strong> I don't even know what test the man takes to test for it. I guess if a man requested an STD screen, they would test for it there. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From what I understand, men are not routinely tested. Doctors assume that all men and all women are infected. 80% are.

Elan...I contracted HPV 8 years ago. I've been married to my husband and with him 9 years since we got together again. He has NEVER shown signs of getting HPV. I'm not sure if he has ever picked it up. I've not had a break out since I first got it a LONG time ago. With my first pregnancy almost 4 years ago I had a wart inside my cervix which I've read is common with pregnancy. By the end of the pregnancy it had completly gone away.

I guess the point to my story is...even though my husband doesn't show signs...if he were to sleep with another or get married again, THEY could get it and SHOW warts.

Is it at all possible that maybe either of you were a carrier from before your marriage...teenage years maybe? I haven't read all your posts, but I just wanted to throw that one option out there.

Loving

LWIT,

HPV does cause genital warts, but it can also cause cervical dysplasia. HPV infection usually does not cause symptoms, especially the types that cause dysplasia and cancer. So a man or woman can be HPV infected with no warts. We're talking about different strains of HPV.

I just checked. For the record, there are no HPV test for men. Only for women.

Take it from a nurse, there is a very simple procedure for men to get checked for warts (hpv)
basically the md takes something like vinegar and swabs the glans (penis head) etc. Men aren't checked enough. Has anyone thought of digital penetration being the culprit? Fingers to vagina?
I hate to be graphic but I've seen it all. I had a friend who didn't know her husband was cheating until she got gonarrhea. Condoms everybody and plastic wrap please! Shall I even mention abstain?

JustAWife---Amen. My ex told me he never *had sex* while we were together. Though I don't live in the U.S. I'm sure he was watching Clinton's every move and can relate! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

How can you check men? (besides the obvious). I would think that if a man really cares about you and your sexual health, if you ASK him to get tested, he won't be rollling his eyes and start going ballistic. In my experience, they're just as guilty if you ask them to be tested then for YOUR peace of mind (my ex went banana's). Yep...should have know then!

Keep talking! This is a subject that EVERYONE needs to discuss. Did you know that the OLDER you get the less attention you pay to things like this. Most folks after their divorce feel that they are immune to these diseases because they were true to their spouses -- don't believe it. If I were dating a pastor and fell in love and was going to go down that route AGAIN, I would ask him to be tested for anything they can test for.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Justawife2:
<strong> Take it from a nurse, there is a very simple procedure for men to get checked for warts (hpv)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please correct me if I am wrong, but all strains of HPV -- including those that cause cancer -- do not cause warts. So docs may test for warts, but not always HPV.