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When it rains it pours. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Last weekend I accidentally drove my sone 350 miles, one way, to a weekend camp he was supposed to go to. We had a wonderful weekend, anyway. Both children went with me. I had been hoping for a day alone with my daughter but that didn't happen....

She wants to go to her dad's to live. I know she'll only be about 5 miles away but this is killing me. Someone else tucking her in. Someone else hearing about school and friends. Some other woman (dad's wife) being the primary female example in her life. Oh, it feels so much like I am dying. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

So, I went to the psychiatrist last week. When you are an ADD adult, you get to have a psychiatrist. Forgot to talk to him about fear I may be falling into the pits of depression. I have been there twice. I recognize it coming.

This week I have been sick. Working on trying to get well. Antiobiotic. Albuterol inhaler. Nasal spray. Codeine cough medicine. Can't take much dextromethorphan - makes me weird out. Prescription antihistamine. Trying hard to get well. Have a permanent headache. From stress? From the cruds? From the meds? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Daughter wants to move over Christmas. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Next weekend I am to take son back to the camp.

The following Wednesday, I am to go see my BF, known as the Diplomat, who lives a long way away. Get home from the camp thing Sunday night and have to leave again on Wednesday to get home on Sunday.

The December - February period is the worst at work and they haven't been replacing people as fast as they've been leaving.

So, my son doesn't deal well with changes. How will daugter leaving affect him?

Daughter wants to get her wise counsel from her friends who are 13-17 years old. Says she hates going to see her counselor. Told the counselor last week that she has had thought of cutting herself but she realized that that would only hurt her and would help no one. Well, it would hurt others but fix nothing so it was not a good plan. x has resented, for years, the fact that I take her periodically to the counselor.

x is proposing parenting plans for both children that would modify our original divorce decree. What he is proposing would basically cost me so much money that I might have to sell my house so I could pay child support. Bear in mind, he earns $85K on the books. I earn $26K.

I have been told to skip a mediator and working things out agreeably and get a big, bada$$ed lawyer. Which I can't afford. My elderly mother had said she will pay for it. My bil, who handles mom's money, says get the lawyer.

Life stinks.

And just in time for the holidays.

No desire to shop. No desire to decorate. No desire to do anything.

Except get well so I can face this mess. Making me sad. And sick.

And I haven't felt this alone in years. Not since trying to recover from x leaving. Not even going throuth the actual divorce was this bad.

Will I survive????

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

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Hello, I just wondered if you are out of your funk yet? We are all allowed to feel that way for a short time. It will get better.
You will feel better after hanging up the Christmas items.

Remember - just breathe.

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Cinderella,

Gee, hon...I don't know what I could say that would make you feel better. It seems that when things are going smoothly, something always comes along to pull the rug out from under us.

I would agree about the lawyer. It can't hurt to have someone represent you when it comes to something/someone so important as your daughter. My oldest son, who is now 15, threatens me with moving in with his father all the time. (Hasn't seen him in 1.5 years). It breaks my heart everytime he says it! Just breathe and relax as much as you can. Maybe your visit north will help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Maybe you can get into the mood to make some more of your origami ornaments this Christmas. I know me and my family loved the ones we got from you!!

Take care of yourself!
Love,
Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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Darling Princess,

You will survive. What choice do you have?

And guess what? I believe a visit with the Diplomat will help your mood emensely. After all, you are not completely alone.

Send an email to your shrink about the depression. Sometimes I think the depression itself stops you, makes you forget to tell the very people who can help you.

I have recurring, cyclical clinical depression. My shrink has told me its not a matter of If but When I will get it again. He also gave me the encrouageing news that anything could set it off. Gee, what FUN!

So here's what I do when I start to get depressed.
1. REcognize teh nasty Depression's thoughts as being those of depression and not me. For example, I can't tell him/her that. I'm all alone. Nobody cares. You know the drill. Don't even attempt to tell yourself how lucky you are. This always makes me worse! Just tell yourself that the alien virus Depression is doing the thinking.
2. I call everyone I know. Or IM or call them and make them call me back.
3. I force myself do just do stuff. This is the hardest part. I also think its one of the most helpful.
4. I figure out what the DEpression is trying to stop me from doing. And then, I do it.

Basically, I visualize the depression as an alien that's invaded part of my brain --lower left specifically. This helps me fight it.

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Now, about your daughter. Your X's wife, your daughter's step-mother, will never be the primary female role model. Period. That's all. Forget it.

You are her MOTHER. She knew you first and most deeply. Step-M will be a secondary model. An alternative, a different perspective. Step-M may become an important person in your daughter's life, but that won't displace YOU.

Think back. You had a child. You loved this child with your whole heart, every last bit of it. Then, you became pregnant again. You had another baby, and a miracle happened. While you didn't love the first one bit less than before, you loved this new baby with your whole heart as well.

The human heart is an amaxing thing. It can expand to include ever so many people. Only the romantic relationship seems to be exclusive.

Oh, and don't worry. Your daughter will be able to see the bad in Step-M. She may even appreciate you more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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Funny thing is I am less threatened by x's wife than I am by him. She doesn't seem to be passive-aggressive, narcissistic, or manipulative. She and her first husband divorced twice and both thimes the children went to live with their father. She doesn't care for mothering.

But the x is another story. He's told me his goal in life is to make my life hell.

It's been many years since I hated anyone. But I hate the fellow - again.

And how can I deal with Christmas knowing that that is when she wants to move? How can I do this?

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Princess I am soooo sorry you are down. I know it seems like 'right now' your X is 'winning' and it's going his way... for now. Things change. Never forget that.
It took SIX and a half YEARS for them to change for me, butt then, boy did they ever change, and for the better. Today, I have BOTH my sons back. I never thought in 100 years it would happen.
Keep the faith, Princess. Let your daughter go. Let her see how screwed up THEIR life really is with your X... and then let her realize that... 'Gee! I should have listened to my Mother after all' - teenagers have to learn things THE HARD WAY. So let her.
She'll come back to YOU soon enough.
You're in my prayers, Princess. God bless you.
TDL

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Question is:

Will I survive????

Answer is YES:

I thought about my situation, and to tell you the TRUTH I am on the same boat still UPs and DOWN feeling.And always thinking about HOLIDAYS But Friends and MB Forum keeps me going and making me feel strong, I know, right now we are weak and hurt but I am sure someday the wounds will heal and our weakness will go away, we are going to be strong and we can fight this feelings. Just hang in there, you are not alone. Remember you are the only one who can make this happen. Just remember (MB People are always here for us) We shared the most painful situation Frustration and Depression in our lives here
(WE ARE ONE BIG FAMILY) Just always pray to god... He is there listening...

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Cinderella,

Not only does she want to move, but at Christmas, which is always an emotionally stressful time anyway. I'm sorry. But, I agree with everyone else that you'll be okay. I've seen the same thing happen to several of my friends and at some point, some sooner, some later, they are closer than ever to their children. That doesn't make it any better today, but remember that nothing stays the same, the good or the bad.

Hope you have a wonderful visit with the Diplomat!

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Hey Cinder,
Your X sounds like a loser, saying he intends to make your life Hell. His lack of compassion and pride in himself will bring him down, don't worry. I agree-- let your Daughter go so she can figure this out for herself. Don't tell her you expect that result, but leave the door to your house wide open and loving. She'll turn to you when she needs you because kids need the love from their mother, no matter how old they get.
I'm releived to hear the OW isn't interested in motherhood and therefore isn't going to cause problems between you and your girl. I'm surprised she would allow your XH to let the daughter live there. Maybe she figures step mothering will be easier then mothering her own?
IN the meantime, it could be really good for your daughter- you know how girls need their fathers for self esteem. Maybe she thinks that by being with him she'll be somehow bridging the gap in your fmaily?
This too shall pass. Sorry to hear the depression is coming, but it sdoesn't sound like it's just coming up willy nilly. There's a reason you're feeling it now to be sure.
Take care of yourself.
Lucy

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Cinderella - I cannot even imagine how you feel - I will say that I am sure if one of my daughters wanted to go live with their dad it would probably be pretty close to what you are feeling... But lets look at this - she thinks that she is moving because - what do they have a better house?? A better room?? More money??? Less rules??Teenage girls unfortunately are all about themselves - even the nicest ones are - but you know what sooner or later - she is gonna realize
that she misses you and really I would say that the grass will probably not be greener over there and she will want to move home sooner or later... but I think if you don't let her go or put up a fight - that will be all the more reason for her to want to go.. I know I say this - and it is so much easier for me to say it because I am not living it -- but she has to make her own way - she has to do what she thinks is best for her - and then only then will she realize that it is home with you and her brother where she belongs... Look at the time that she is living with her dad - as a time for you to spend special time with your son.... And as for the lawyer - I say if you can afford get it and do what is legally fair to you ... You have been divorced for awhile do not give your ex any control over you .... Good luck and try to stay positive... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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Folks, I have been here forever it seems and someone came up with this unwritten rule that you should single out something in each post and comment on it. Well, that's not me....too much work for my ADD brain.

Thank you so much for your kind words. You may have to keep me propped up for a couple of months. And keep me in your prayers, please.

Otherwise, I may not get through this.

So, I have called 2 attorneys. One thing I am worried about is letting her go with an easy path back home. And if we submit parenting plans to the court and ammend our decree, it may be to hard for her to come home. One is $225 just for a consultation. The other hasn't called me back but I just called her today. My BIL recommended someone 35 miles from my home - pretty powerful in his home county but I don't know about in mine.
The one I called today is the atty for a friend's daughter - my friend is a non-atty mediator in the local area. The one who is $225 is the bad-guy x of a friend. They've just been through a custody change so he would know all the law.

The other thing I am worried about is maintaining my financial solvency. I have NO money in the bank. Repeat, NO MONEY - ok, maybe $500. But I usually run in the black and that is just gonna have to be good enough.

So, I want to protect myself financially in this. After all, my gross income is $26k and his is $85K and he has a wife who probably pulls in $40K so they have a financial advantage. He, alone, has a significant financial advantage.

This girl is, right now, SO ALL ABOUT HERSELF. As is almost every girl her age. And tomorrow is her 14th birthday.

Tonight, son was giving me fits. Said he might just go live at dad's. I asked him how his dad would react if he were so disrespectful and argumentative at his house. He said dad would react very negatively - don't remember son's words. I told him that he better think about that and change his attitude. In a few minutes, he did.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Why is it that they don't do informed consent before you get pregnant?

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: cinderella ]</small>

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This girl is, right now, SO ALL ABOUT HERSELF. As is almost every girl her age. And tomorrow is her 14th birthday </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have one who is 15, and is ADHD and ODD to boot. I SO understand the "all about herself" part!!! And I go day to day wondering if she's going to go through with her statements about going to live with her dad. It is so scary.

But one thing that has happened since around the time she turned 15--she has gotten ever such a TINY bit easier to get along with. I am able to reason with her on rare occasions. Six months ago I wasn't reasoning with her at all.

I am hoping that maturity may be starting to set in (although based on the maturity level of X and his sister, we may have about 25 years to go yet with my daughter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

Moral: Hang in there! They do eventually grow up and get a little better. My son, at 18, is still all about himself, too. He's in college--rarely ever calls me unless he needs something. But he's so much easier to get along with than he was 4 years ago.

And I believe girls are twice as difficult as boys.

LL

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Yeah, well, I bet we haven't begun to experience how exciting things will be with my son. An 11yo ADHD/ODD child.

And SOOOOO much like his dad in many other ways.

<small>[ November 17, 2004, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: cinderella ]</small>

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All I can add is hugs to you {{{{{{Cinderella}}}}}}}}} and impart the knowledge that you will make it and will survive despite the unbearable pain.

The adult stuff in the marriage breakdown with infidelity and all the rest for me was hugely painful, but was minimal compared to the nightmare I have endured with my children, two of whom have mental health issues (ADHD, bipolar,depression) which the X denies and always actively sabotages all interventions and professional recommendations, so I have kept reinventing the wheel....which is exhausting , frustrating and does not allow our children to make the progress that can be.


"He's told me his goal in life is to make my life hell."
My X not only said this in 1999, he has been acting on this ever since using our children to punish and hurt me as much as a mother can be emotionally hurt. Of course this has always intensified during the holiday season. My children have bought into this agenda and there has been nothing I could do to change this but maintain my boundaries by insisting on acceptable and respectful behaviour towards myself and each other .
The truth in this family is that the children are all very damaged, but with many scars I have survived...as will you.

All I can suggest is hold the boundaries with your daughter and do not allow her to now begin to play the "good parent/bad parent" revolving door game.

All the talk about changing parenting plans/child support is about trying to push your buttons and triggers to upset you even more. At this time forget about this...do nothing until your X puts his stated intentions into actions, only then get the lawyer etc to fight hard for all your rights. Until then try not to expend your energy in this area. Let your X work on the parenting plan etc etc, but I suggest you do nothing about this now. Simply suggest that before you will even consider thinking about these details it is important for your daughter to have a trial period of living with her dad before it becomes a "permanent " arrangement. After an agreed upon time of not less than 2 months, if your daughter wants to continue to live with her father, only then can a new parenting plan perhaps be discussed.

I am praying for you and your children.

<small>[ November 18, 2004, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: amnow.ok ]</small>

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The plot thickens!!!

I am the proud - actually provoked to tears - recipient of a letter from the Infernal Revenue Service saying I am the lucky target of an audit. They are challenging my filing status, residence, dependents, every every thingl. If I don't cough up documentation sufficient to prove my complete return, it could cost me thousands. I have to prove my marital status, dependents and their ages, my residency, my home ownership, my utilities, my children's parent and address of record according to their schools, doctor, and clergy, title of property, court ordered name change, divorce decree, etc.

And to top it off, the children's father has told me for years that d does not need to see psychologist a couple of times a year. Yesterday the psychologist told me she thinks d may be depressed and may need more therapy or maybe meds. And she wants to talk with the father. Who didn't want her going to start with.

So, Just when you thought it couldn't get worse. It does.

Both children's interim grades stink. REALLY STINK.

Not good. Life is not good.

Talked to my mom the other night and thought I would never get her to understand what I said. I don't like this. Not one little bit.

God obviously thinks I can handle it because He won't give us more than we can handle. But how much more can I take?

At least I have a job. And we are all physically healthy.

If it keeps this up, I may need a straight jacket and a padded room.

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It's my opinion that sometimes I think God lets us be totally bombarded with problems because at least that keeps us to darned busy to dwell on any one issue for any length of time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

That said, you do have your hands full.

I've never been through an IRS audit. Nearest I ever came was a desk audit of sorts by our state dept of revenue. And they just needed certain items. Since I'm an accountant AND a pack rat, I had what I needed.

Most of those items shouldn't be that hard to prove, should they? However, it will be pain collecting all the proper documentation. Make a list and check one item off at a time. Remain focused. (Focus...not easy for me. I think I know where my daughter's ADHD came from. I work with lots of lists.)

Grades...I'll bet they could be worse. My daughter is in an alternative school because she was expelled from her regular high school last year. Be thankful you are still in a "grade" setting and not just a pass/fail setting of an alternative school. (And I am thankful that my daughter is in the alternative school and not completely without an education option!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Talked to my mom the other night and thought I would never get her to understand what I said. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My apologies for not knowing your story all that well. Does your mother have health problems?

Not that your experience will mirror mine or anything, but when I get to the place where I think I'm either going to blow a vein in my brain from a stroke or I'm going to check myself into the nearest mental ward, usually something gives or something good happens to take the stress of just a little bit and let me breathe.

Let's hope that happens for you. Do you like Christmas lights? Maybe just take a drive and check some out. Put a nice relaxing CD or tape in your car stereo and relax. And just get through one day at a time.

LL

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My mom is 79 and has some age related memory loss. I don't think she's mentally stimulated enough but it's no longer safe for her to drive very far outside her immediate neighborhood.

And today my daughter's psychologist, to whom I've continued to take her sporadically, called and asked for the dad's name and number so she can set up appt to talk to him. Her biggest news is that the last EOB she got from his insurance said that psychological services weren't covered and payment was denied.

Great! Just Great!

You know, it keeps getting deeper and deeper.

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cinderella,

Are they challenging or just asking for documented proof?

--They are challenging my filing status, residence, dependents, every every thing.

TR--If you are divorced and filed Head of Household--show your divorce papers that show you have custody--

Dependants--show birth certificates--and again divorce documents--

--I have to prove my marital status, dependents and their ages, my residency, my home ownership, my utilities, my children's parent and address of record according to their schools, doctor, and clergy, title of property, court ordered name change, divorce decree, etc.

TR--Again, all of these things are relatively simple to prove--by the above documents--divorce decree, birth certificates, your birth certificate, do you have a copy of your property taxes? that could be used as proof for home ownership--utility bills show you live where you say you live--as they have your name and address listing where you live--

Childrens school records--you get a copy of their school records that lists your home address--

A letter from your childrens doctors--saying yes they are patients--if you have a copy of medical bills from the doctors those should be sufficient--

Don't know why you need the clergy--unless you claimed your giving to the church--if so then your church should have records of how much you have given--if you pay by check or if you have copies of canx checks--I know our church sends us a letter every quarter for our giving--

If your still paying for your home you won't have a title--so you should be able to use a payment record of a copy of your mortage payment bills--

As far as name change--use your court documents you got for the legal name change--

(if you have any questions maybe ask holdingontoit
he may be able to offer more information)

--Yesterday the psychologist told me she thinks d may be depressed and may need more therapy or maybe meds. And she wants to talk with the father. Who didn't want her going to start with.

TR--So give her the information she needs--and let her call him and deal with him--that keeps you out of the mix--at least for a little bit--


As far as your son goes--do not threaten him about how much worse things would be at his dad's--if he acts up over there--as it sounds like your trying to make him choose between the two of you--

"dad's meaner than I am, if you act like that over there dad would do ______, so your much better off over here because I don't discipline you--see how great things are here!!"

It may not be what you are trying to say---but it is how it sounds--

I have a question--when your kids act up--how do you discipline them? Or do you?

Kids need rules, they need discipline to feel they are loved--sure they fight against it, that's normal--sure they hate to suffer the consequences of their actions, but they are necessary--in order to learn to become responsible adults--

And yes, Parents HATE to hear their kids say they hate them when we discipline them--but that is a part of parenting--we are not even supposed to be their bestfriends--that's what their peers are for--

My kids tell me they hate me all the time--mostly when I discipline them--the other times are when I tell them NO, they can't do something--they stomp off to their rooms and if they slam a door, they get spanked and grounded longer--slamming doors is unacceptable behavior--and you know what--they always come back apologize and tell me they love me and give me a hug, and I tell them I love them and hug them back--

however, when they do that it doesn't mean they are no longer grounded or suffering the consequences of their bad behavior--but they do acknowledge they were wrong--and they don't REALLY hate me--

I don't get angry when they say they hate me--I just say "Okay, well, I'm sorry you feel that way" I let them be mad and angry at me--they have every right to how they feel--whether I agree with it or not--but, because I don't get angry or mad or upset about it when they tell me that--they also feel safe sharing other feelings with me--

My oldest daughter is 16, and she's not all about herself anymore--she is sometimes--but not like it was a couple years ago--as I understand she's trying to figure out who she is--and it's part of the letting go of depending on your parents for everything--so that she can one day leave home--

I have a good friend of mine whose daughter is a year older than mine--she held the reins to tight for years--and her daughter got involved in drugs, she would sneak out her window at night to be with her boyfriend, she ran away from home--when my friend got to the point of letting her go and allowing her daughter suffer the consequences, she ended up in jail, threatened suicide--and the police put her in the psych ward--her mom left her there--didn't bail her out like she expected because that is what her mom always did--out of guilt--but the daughter learned--woah--Mom is leaving me here--I better change if I want to go home--she couldn't call her dad as he was overseas
her grandparents wouldn't come bail her out--she had to suffer the consequences--she stayed in the psych ward six months for treatment--she's out now, working during the day, and going to night school to get her GED--as a parent--I learned ALOT watching their relationship--

When my daughter hit that age of she's the end all of her world--not doing her homework, wanting to do things her way--I let go of the reins just enough to let her suffer the consequences of her actions--she didn't want to do her homework--Okay, that's your choice--no, I'm not going to ground you--I'm not going to yell and scream--but if you fail don't blame me--you have only yourself to blame--you know--she failed that year and it was a tough blow to her--as she watched all of her friends move ahead a grade--I wouldn't even let her go to summer school--as I wasn't going to suffer the consequences of her actions by taking her to school--having to be late for work or leaving work early to pick her up--I let her repeat the grade--She realized at that point there are consequences--and mom isn't the only one who says so, her teachers were actually surprised that I allowed her to fail and wasn't up there screaming at them HOW could THEY fail MY daughter, as all the other parents did--this is the first year (she's in 10th grade) she hasn't made straight A's since then--and it's only in one class that she's struggling--she even tried to blame the teacher, to which I laughed and asked to see her school work and tests--I just looked at her and said--"Doesn't look like YOU are studying the way you need too" she finally agreed she isn't--and stopped blaming the teacher--and began studying more--we'll see if her grades improve--

So you see, if you don't teach them consequences now--when they get into the work world--they won't be able to hold a job--and they will blame their bosses for expecting to much--not being fair--
and so many other things--and you know--Life isn't FAIR!! It's not about being fair---and if they don't learn that as children--they will have to learn it as adults--when it will be even more painful as you won't be there to encourage and support them through it--

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Joined: May 2000
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I'm trying really hard.

I do discipline my son but I also allow more self-expression than x does.

This is all too much and at this time of year. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. (Why is there no 'grinding teeth' or 'steam coming out of ears' emoticon?)

Anyway, I talked to daughter a bit tonight and explained why I did not want her leaving at Christmas time. I really asked her to do it a few weeks later. But, more importantly, I told her how many things in my life - especially concerning her, her brother, and the divorce had occurred around holidays or celebrations. That all this really hurt me. REALLY HURT me. I didn't preach or make demands. But I did ask her to consider the co-parenting route where she is with her dad more and regularly and she is with me regularly. (Maybe a week here and a week there.)

I explained that I wanted her to have a good relationship with her dad but that I wanted to be with her too. She is the child I longed for for years. The child I carried in my body and gave birth to. And she is the child I had been there for when her dad left.

Now, maybe that wasn't the best choice but she is seeing everything from only her point of view and I felt it was time that I said something to her. Through all of this, I have not felt free to talk with her about it. But tonight she asked to talk and I stopped what I was doing to talk with her. And I wasn't very emotional when I talked to her, I hope. At least I was neither raging nor crying. Things I would have done earlier.

I told her I just had a lot going on that I needed to deal with. That I would e-mail her dad and tell him that I was dealing with a number of things all at once and ask for a little more time to get it under control before I talked to him.

I am dealing with items in our decree with which x is not complying and I can do a lot to handle those (in the opinion of the attorney I consulted). These items are failure to complete the QDRO or similar paperwork concerning his retirement, my failure to give him medical bills and his failure to pay any medical expenses despite the fact he has been ordered to and he gets all the EOBs as children are on his medical insurance as ordered by the court, and the audit. All that is in addition to this custody thing. And I do not want to have to sell my house because I can't make the payments because she has gone to live with her dad.

Just praying I hold on and continue to do good work. Just trying to hold on.

At this point, I think some antidepressants might be a good idea. I really don't want to become nonfunctional. I have been there before and it was miserable. Last night I was confronted with a case of doughnuts, muffins, and croissants at the grocery store. And NONE of them looked appealing. That tells me something isn't right.

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