John,

How about if you call her up and meet her in person for coffee somewhere.

Sit down with her and tell her that you want to talk about what has happened between you both.

Let her talk about her grievences; ask her what you could have done differently,; how you have hurt or disappointed her, and really listen to her. Don't get defensive, or shift blame. Don't say anything. Just listen.

Let her get it all out.

For the time being, don't bring up any of her failings or wrongdoing.

Ask her if there is anyting else.

When she is done talking, tell her that you care about her , and tell you you are sorry for hurting her.


Don't talk about the future, or get in an argument or ask her for any kind of commitment.

Just listen quietly, apologise and tell her that you need to think about what she has told you.

Then give her a kiss and tell her you will be in touch in a few days, and leave.

Don't say a word about what she has done to you, or about plans, or anything .

Just listen to her.

If she yells, or cries, or gets angry or says things that are untrue or unfair, don't react. Give her time to calm down, and tell her you are listening.

There will be a time for you to say your part another time, but not at this meeting.


Shul

We have already had the talk. I messed it up though by talking when I thought she was done. She never once told me that there was another man or even hinted towards it. She has lied and cheated me out of some of my best years. How can she be so terrible to someone that just days before she had declared her love and devotion to. She lied. She lied to me and her family. I am more deeply insulted than I have ever been before. She will never be sorry she just wants to find "Daddy". She needs to grow up! Her family needs to confront her and force her to face her lies and misdeeds. I wish we could be together one more time without this on our minds. I would make it the best day ever for us. The day she asked me for the divorce after I had left the house I called her and told her that I would miss her. She told me to come home. I went home and we laid together in bed naked just talking. I told her that the nexttime she did this it would be with another man and the next time I did this it would be with another woman. I will miss the warmth in bed and the caress of her elegant hands when I was tired. I will miss her smile and her laughter. I will miss the "sick" days spent together in bed. I will miss her beautiful figure outlined in the sunlight of the morning. I will miss the long baths together where we never got "clean". I thought she would be here for me and I there for her for the rest of our natural and beyond lives. I depended on her, I relied on her and finally I as just let down by her. I just want it all back. I can live witout her but I do not want to live without her. I will miss her big beautiful gleaming brown eyes, I will miss her smell and her taste. I just cant believe that she could ever do this to me. Se promised to be there for me. I know that I was not allways there the way she need me and sometimes I was very short-sighted about what I said but I never once gave up and went to another woman. How can she justify going to another man? A few months ago she told me that she ahd been talking with another man and I told her that talking to a man who is going through a divorce probably would do little more than stir up feelings in both of them that were not appropriate. She told me she was onlry friends with all of these guys and nothing would ever happen with them. She lied. She let one of them into her emotions and he went to town on her. She is a brilliant woman who should have seen this coming but somehow it was diguised and she never saw it. He knows that she was married and he knows that he lost his wife to another man how can he do this to me? aren't guys supposed to stick together. Imagine his 35+ wife finding out about his new 23 year old girlfriend. I would just about die to be a fly on that wall. How can I undermine him? Is there a way I can destroy his credibility? I need to do so many things to make this right but cannot do so many because she has isolated herself from me socially. We no longer have any mutual friends her family will not tell me anything I just have no real clue at all what to do here. She is desperate for a divorce and I really do not want it but if she comes to me with the papers I think that I might just sign them. Please show me the way to her heart, I cannot see in this darkness, I have travelled in her for so long I just need to be able to see again. I love her I love her I want her to stay....forever

I don't want another woman- I want my wife! How do spouses do this? how can they give up? I never did give up. What am I going to do? This can't be over. It just cant be over. I wanted our children She had picked out the names And I really loved them. Is it wrong to mourn the loss of children you never had? I wanted my little girl, I wanted my little boy. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Is there anybody out there?

Hi John,
Just some simple observations here and one suggestion regarding military service.

You seem to be desperately looking for a reason to get out of your marriage, and approval for it.

You contradict yourself telling us you see no hope, yet you want her back in your life.

We've all been there, the betrayed. It's pretty confusing, isn't it? It's not fair at all. It sucks.

My suggestion for military service in the USAF is to check out the ANG or USAF Reserves. You will do an eight week boot camp in Texas then be sent home while the military decides your MOS. If you do that..YOU ARE IN! If after that your martial troubles don't work out, You have a spot and won't have to fret about the age limitations. Believe me, in these times you will get your speciality training and if you do well on that the AF will take your active duty request.

Talk with your recruiter about this and be very honest with him/her. About everything.

You do have some big decisions to make. Just don't make hasty ones. You sound like me when I had my D-Day. I was all over the place.

Take some to calm down.

Best to you

I really do not want out of the marriage. She wants out I want to stay in. The USAF would be for me a way of starting my life over again from the beginning. I also do not want to be her backup plan if her other plans go awry because it would just hurt too much to stand. If she stays I will get the school grats ang get the computer degrees I need to provide for her. If she leaves I will join the USAF. I am not trying to manipulate her I just have put many months of thought into this and have come to these ends. I really love her and want to be with her but if she wants to just pack up and run I can't stop her so why contest the divorce when I have good plans no matter what happens? Like I wrote at home last night "I need nobody and I have a future no matter what" I will not be able to be on this weekend because the cable company shut me off for nonpayment. I never got the bill or any notice so I had no idea this was comming. I did call her about this (she deals with the bills) and she was mad because of it. She was in a resturant/bar type place from the noise I heard so who knows what she is up to. I really hope that some space will help her because time Is an issue. I am not letting her know that because it would totally defeat the purpose of giving her the 'off' time. I was looking at the wedding pictures last night and she was just beautiful. I hope that this can be resolved because it would break my heart to have to leave this life. As a recovering child abuse victim things like this are very hard for me because for much of my life the people that I thought would be there usually were not. With her gone I am haveing all new troubles that stem from my past and I really want her now more than ever before. If she did come back I know that she would not have to worry about our children (we have none yet) being abused. I know that I would never hurt them I just could not bring myself to it ever. I can understand her fear though I, sadly have gotten violent with her once during this marriage. I still remember it well and I have used this memory to prevent it from ever occuring again. What I did was WAY beyond normay levels of violence. I left no marks on her but it was still as wrong as it could get. After it happened I spent the next hour and a half in the bathroom next to her comforting her and comforting myself. I did not leave untill she had stopped fliching at every move I made. I can't believe that I have admitted this to everyone in her family and mine. I should probably tell what happened.

It started weeks in advance she had been in a terrible mood and taking it out on me the whole time. I know that after a while I was not in too good of a mood ether but that is no excuse at all. I had not really slept since it had started because the idea of divorce/annullment had been tossed up. I was exhausted she was exhausted. That morning she said something in the bathroom and I snapped. I spun around on my heels grabbed her by the neck, picked her up and pinned her against the wall and said some thing to her like "you will never speak to me like that again" That might not be exact this was two and a half years ago. As soon as I realized what was going on I let her down gently and sat her on the edge of the bathtub. I spen weeks consoling her about this and finally she belived me that I would never do it again. Since that day I have never put a hand on her in anger again. I know that i would never do anything like this again. How can I get her to understand that I really have changed? It helps me alot to get this off of my chest. I have had to restrain her because she was trying to hurt herself but that is very different. I have within the last 2 months finally gotten the last of my temper almost completely under control. Recent things in my life have led me to be very angry and I have had a few outbursts but none with her present. I really have opened a new chapter in my life and I hope that she is in the story as my wife not ex-wife. Please go easy on me this is hard stuff to admit and I have already paid dearly for it.

SadJohn,
Before I say anything more, I have to say my H's name is John and thinking of him being sad just melts me. I both hate and love your screen name here.
Ok- so, you were violent. That was abusive. Harley says Abuse pretty obtusely, but what he means by it is a good way of thinking of it: it's a process.
When you look at abuse as a process, not as an instance in time, you start to see how both partners contributed to it.
Yep, the man is stronger. The man has bigger hands. The man is naturally more physical, and testosterone makes the male species more aggressive and therefore more prone to violence. The man will have many more consequences for acting out than a woman will.
Women count on men to have made agreements with themselves like the one you have now: not to touch a woman in anger beause it's too easily out of control and simply isn't right to "pick on" somone smaller.
Us women have violent feelings too, and some of us start swinging. WE don't want to be pushed around any more than anyone else does. When pushed, we can be ugly, violent physically, and emotionally extremely abusive. I mean, when we need to be heard, some women can be a force to be reckoned with. "Hell hath no fury than that of a woman.... " right?
I'm ashamed to say that I was antagonistic to my H. I did not treat him like someone I love. I did not feel thatI was being treated as such, and therefore, it was easy for me to dish it back out, as I saw it.
The thing is, I dont think he knew he was "abusing" me.
Harley says abuse to one person is different to another- but I'm willing to bet you AND your Wife were BOTH being abusive.
It's a process.
No one just up and grabs a gun and fires one day out of the blue. It all starts with comments that hurt, and instead of blowing it off, or contacting it in a positive way, often the person who was hurt hurts back, but harder.
that doesn't let either of you off the hook. The rtrick is in not taking the bait because it doesn't do any good to fight back. It never does, and no one ever wins.
I wonder if she has she accepted accountability for her part in it. No biggie there, but it's too easy to just blame you, say you were the bad only bad one. You might want to defend her, and I admire that. But I don't beleie she's innocent. She must have contributed somehow-- threatening divorce soon after our marraige had me very firghtened and walking on egg shells. I don't care how much moral fiber I migth have had before-- it wasn't enough to remain calm and reassuring.
Once the line to be indecent to each other has been crossed by word or deed, it's much easier for the offended party to cross the line as well.
So, with that in mind and with this new information about the abuse process happening in your history together, it seems to me like you (as a couple) ahve a long way to go. Perhaps she does trust you now, and doesn't flinch any longer. Obviously, she trusts you enough to be naked and vulnerable with you. BUt perhaps a certain part of her, the part that was mean to you, feels blemished-- like a good thing went sour? If that is the case, i bet she still cares about the M, but is instinctively psuhing it away.
Anyway, Sorry for my lay-person analysis here. I attend these workshops on this subject, and find the dynamic that can come from two living people very interesting.
Maybe it's not about trusting you, maybe it's about feeling like the blemish on the relationship is too big for her to overcome.
I dont know, maybe it's not about your history at all?
It sounds like time apart will help you both find clarity. She's pushing you away. Why?
Somethinhg isn't right with her and you, she feels. Doesn't mean it can't change.
It sounds like your relationship and approach to relationships has special needs. Is there any way you can think of it as an entity with a disability? I dontknow, I find it helpful sometimes to recognize that my dear multi-talented husband has a hge deficit because of the way he was reared with parents who not only fought but carried on affairs, and disrespected each other like it was fun and games-- sometimes I think he has special needs because of this and doesn't even realize it. He thinks he's like any other person-- but trust me, he has a disability and it's a tough one to have because it's not obvious-- and there are no social programs or special classrooms for kids in families like his.
I did not know couples could fight like he and I have! It amazes me that we did all of that and we weren't even smoking crack! Boy o boy, it sure looked like we must have had a $10,000/day habit , the way our egos and pride executed toture on each other with confidence and pinache only someone high out of their minds could carry off.
Not to sound too non-challant, but we can waste time beating ourselves up over it, or we can say "that was bad, but I'm still a good person worthy of love" Abuse happens. It's a process and both parties usually have a role in it . Unless one party is a true abuser and thinks there isn't anything wrong with what they did. there are people out there who think getting physcial, or being cruel keeps others in line!....- it doesn't sound like you are one of those. are you sure she isn't?
So, I will go "easy" but realistically on you for it. I hope you've learned your lesson. You sound as if you have.
As somebody who has been through it, I have to say that coming back from it takes a long, long time. A lot of patience and a lot of acceptance and being gentle is needed. For good. Not just for a while, but for good. Period. Gentle. Patient. Accepting.
I needed to know no matter what I did, he would not be cruel. No matter how I acted, I needed to know I could count on him to cherish me.
Most of us give as well as we get... be decent, kind, gentle, respectful, accepting of her. For good.
I hope this helps. I just wanted you to nknow I understand and am not condeming you or your wife for it.
Lucy

You may want to consider implementing some of the following points found in:

7 Powerful Tactics to Break Free From The Affair and Stop it NOW!.
12 Unattractive, Ugly, Typical Tact...he Affair and Guarantee Their Own Misery.
Michelle Weiner Davis's Divorce Busting 180 Degree List .

TMCM