Hello, I'm praying someone can offer guidance,

I still have hope that my relationship can be saved, but I do have my doubts about how to continue. When is it time to really let go and accept that there's no hope?

Basically, I believe I'm being emotionally abused by a Fiancé' who yells at me, calls me names, accuses me of humiliation, ect... No physical abuse (other than throwing some papers), but my Fiancé is so angry with me that even innocent questions or a 'look' can set him off on a rampage.

My Fiancé firmly believes that I have started each and every fight we have ever been in. He says that it's my fault that he yells at me. If I wouldn't do ______ or _______, he wouldn't yell.
He takes absolutely no responsibility for mean behavior (it's my fault).

Each major fight ends up with him threatening to leave, or packing and leaving for a few days. This makes me very angry because I feel that our relationship is worth working on (and, as a widow, I have a fear of abandonment). He says things like: "There is no hope". "We've tried already". "If you would only quit doing _______ then everything would be fine."

He moved out many of his things on Tuesday after a fight last Sunday. We actually had a nice conversation the day he moved out. I was supportive, said that he could take all the time he wants to 'figure things out.' I told him that I didn't believe it was 'over' and that I still have a lot of hope because things were great for a very long time. He stopped by Thanksgiving day. We had a similar conversation. He claims that he doesn't want to end the relationship, but sometimes two people just aren't meant to be together.

He has absolutely refused counseling. Says he doesn't need it, I do. He also says that I will manipulate the counselor against him because I'm a 'master manipulator' (ouch).

I'm giving him his space. I haven't talked to him since T-Day. I won't call or e-mail. BUT.... I'm starting to get really angry inside!! I suspect it's repressed anger. I've been so consumed with keeping the peace and accepting my 'faults' that somehow I've managed to lose sight of the fact that I do not deserve to be yelled at (especially in public). I've taken all responsibility for the fights because in order to get the fighting to stop, I felt I had no other choice.

Maybe I'm the one with the anger management problem? I've come to realize that underneath I'm very angry at him also. Mostly due to things he says to me when he's mad (he is very aggressive and says really mean things); but also due to his unwillingness to seek counseling (or even read a book). Finally, I'm the angriest that he refuses to accept any responsibility for the problems.

So, my questions are...... Do I keep hope when:
a) Partner refuses counseling.
b) Partner refuses to acknowledge his share (it's all my fault).
c) I feel that I'm being emotionally abused.
d) Since he's now partially gone, is it the time to express my feelings, or should I continue to make peace until he moves back in and then try to work on things?

Please respond, I feeling really down right now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Managing,

I am so sorry to read your story, but you have definitely come to the right place for answers.Some of the real sharp posters will jump in later and it would be better to post in General Questions II on weekends. I want you to go to the URL I give you, click on articles and the on How to Identify a Loser.

Best of luck!

http://www.drjoecarver.com/

There are several things in your post that worry me. The lines your fiance is feeding you are not unlike those of physical abusers who blame the victim: "if only you wouldn't..... I wouldn't have to hit you". He may only be throwing papers now, but to me that sounds like a point on a continuum - what happens if he gets angrier than he is now? I fear for your safety.

I also fear that you are not being treated with respect, and are willing to take all the responsibility (translate: blame) for whatever happens. It takes two. It always takes two. Everyone in the relationship participates in the dynamics. For him to not accept any role in it, means it is unlikely you will be able to resolve conflict in any other way except his way.

I suggest you read the sections on this board on healthy relationships, and especially about POJA (Policy of Joint Agreement). Ask yourself if your fiance is capable of the POJA type of negotiation. From what you've said so far, it doesn't sound like it to me. For me, this is a key question that indicates whether both people are able to give as well as take, to share responsibility for the relationship, and to care for the feelings and needs of the other person. This doesn't mean someone is perfect at it - but if it were me, I'd be asking questions like this - and also, "if I had a son, would I want him to grow up to be like this man?"

You are right that you do not deserve to be treated this way, especially in public. His behavior communicates disrespect to me. If that is really the case, you might want to ask yourself if you want to be in a relationship with someone who does not respect you.

Take care - I hope this is helpful. Ultimately only you can answer these questions for you. We all hear only a few of your words, and that is not the whole story, obviously.

Dear Cymanca and Deja Vu,

Thank you so much for taking the time to post your replies. They have helped me tremendously.

"Would I want to raise a son just like this man?"....... It is all so clear now, as is the answer..."No, I don't." I suppose that says it all. My path is much clearer at the moment.

This still hurts a bunch and I imagine it will for quite some time; but at the end of the day, I have much to be thankful for.

My sincerest gratitude.

This is a subject I know a lot about because I am divorcing my abusive husband. Please do yourself a favor, get into therapy right away and if you don't like the first one you go to, try another. Also, read The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. It will explain all of the dynamics clearly and concisely. Remember that 1) You must take care of yourself, whatever that means or entails 2) Please tell family and friends what is going on if you haven't already and if you haven't left, 3) make a plan of action for leaving. Check into the local shelters run by the YWCA or other organizations in your area. Keep a list of important contact numbers handy but hidden should you need to make a quick exit. Hide your valuables at a family member's residence or get a safety deposit box. Valuables include important papers like SS card, birth certificates, titles to car, deeds, insurance, etc. It sounds like you know what you need to do as far as not wanting to raise children with this man, but leaving can be difficult, especially in a situation where the real issue is control. If you buy or borrow the book, also keep that hidden and any private things that you write in a journal regarding his behavior should also be kept hidden. Luckily you have not married this man and don't have to have proof. I guess I am just speaking from my experience. Took me 17 years to get away, 9 of which were married ones. And he is still living here, but that's almost over and done with. An abuser will crush your spirit and eventually your life force, that which makes you the unique person you are, will disappear.

Blessings.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This still hurts a bunch and I imagine it will for quite some time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">now what hurts more? admitting that maybe you made a mistake, or need more relationship experience to understand how manipulators work?

or

constantly have fights where you are blamed for someone else's problems??

is that the way you really want to live? or haven't you developed enough time and healing to establish independence to overcome the fear of abandonment. Success at that comes from being sucessful on your own, not by sticking with a poor choice of a partner. Being able to break off an unhealthy relationship is much more healing towards conquering that fear, than staying in a abusive relationship.

wiftty

ManagingAngryPartner,

First I'd like to say that I'm sorry you needed to find your way here and I'd like to address your questions.

Do I keep hope when
a) Partner refuses counseling.
b) Partner refuses to acknowledge his share (it's all my fault).
c) I feel that I'm being emotionally abused.

There is nothing wrong with keeping hope and only you will know when it is right for you to give up that hope. And you will know when it is right.

d) Since he's now partially gone, is it the time to express my feelings, or should I continue to make peace until he moves back in and then try to work on things?

It is always time to express your feelings. You have to be completely open and honest about everything.

By taking all the responibility, you are enabling him. You are allowing him to be abussive and get away with it. I agree with Deja Vu. If it's your fault that he had to throw papers at you, it will probably be your fault when he has to smack you around. Even if the abuse never turns physical, it needs to end by his doing or your own.

My sugestion is that the first thing that should change is him being your Fiancé. Is this really what you want the rest of your life to be like. I can understand your fear of abandonment but no person deserves to sacrifice everything in order to be misserable.

Make the changes in your relationship now and make it clear to him the the changes must be made for your relationship to continue.

Best wishes to you

WIWH

I wish you had posted in General Questions, you might get more responses.
YOu aren't married yet. Don't marry this man until he's undergone therapy. In fact, I'll go a step further -- I don't think you should marry him at all. Maybe this is a wake-up call, that you should walk before you are bound to this man.

I would let him go. It will only get worse when you are married. Take heed to the warning signs now before it is too late.

Run NOW!

Read the book by Patricia Evans, you will likely cry through it. And be glad that you didn't marry this person. Some people have bad patterns from their Families of Origin which are not easily understood by us.

Adding my comments:

Be prepared, once you are ready to move on, for him to give you another chance. For him to be sorry for what he's done, what he's said, and for him to confess that he had a horrible childhood. Be prepared for him to tell you he wants to work on himself, he needs you, he wants a future together.

Be prepared for these things once it is clear that you are moving on. He will have an epiphany when he sees that you aren't "his" any more. He might realize that you were the best thing that ever happened to him and ask for another chance.

Be prepared to NOT take him back. And also, change the locks, change the alarm code, and write on any mail addressed to him "Not at this address." If he has any property in your house, pack it up and arrange to have it delivered to him.

Don't allow any excuse for him to come back inside your home. I say this not because of physical danger, but because of danger that he (who accuses you of being a master manipulator) will manipulate and insinuate himself back into your life.

The danger in this man is destruction of your soul, your core self. You will never be good enough for his standards (which standards keep changing). You can't keep to his rules. His rules will keep shifting. You can't win his game. He keeps changing the rules.

If you could read his mind, you could win. But if you could read his mind, if you could anticipate what would keep him from "going off," that would p1ss him off too. He is angry deep inside. Anyone coming into his orbit receives the detritus thrown off because it's just part of his elementary self.

Consider that you have dodged a bullet. Please break off all contact with this man. You can't keep him as a "friend," he will ruin your life.

Stolen from Beauty and the Beast, line from Belle to Gaston: "I don't deserve you." Gentle smile.

MAP,

Are you still around? Let us know what is going on. I think you are getting good advice here - most importantly you are getting CONSISTENT advice from everyone. Usually when you are in a gray area, people will have different opinions, but that is not the case here. Take strength from people here as you need it to take care of yourself. And as Bellevue warned, you may now need strength to resist his efforts at reconciliation. Hard as it may be, I hope you can find that strength somehow.

I know our advice sounds harsh, but many of us have lived with this type of person and know it only gets worse. You are blamed for everything, and the person takes no responsibility for anything. You begin to lose yourself. And it only gets harder with marriage and children.

I thank God that there is divorce and I don't have to live with that angry person every day.

I can't thank you enough for posting. Your words mean so much to me right now.

At this point, the ex-fiancé' has moved out. All of his things are gone. And, you're not going to believe this, but so is the SHOWERHEAD!! LOL. I kid you not, he took the showerhead that he installed in my home when he moved in! I suppose I'm feeling better, since it actually made me laugh out loud.

In some ways, I'm starting to feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Especially as I tell my story and realize that I'm on the right track. Again, thank you.

Ultimatums are never good, but sometimes necessary. I feel very confident in my decision. At this point, the only thing I have control over is how effectively I heal, and I do plan to heal.

To Bellvue: I feel like you're onto something. I do expect this man to come back. I need to be prepared. He left a letter today (along with the keys to my home) which ended with.... "Thank you for being so patient and understanding." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I ordered The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. I'm thinking that reading this book immediately might help me stay centered should if he decides to come back agreeing to counseling. I'm still not giving up ALL hope, but I am realizing that the prospects of him coming to terms with his anger are very bleak. Just 'going' to a counselor isn't going to do it. This man must truly WANT to change.

Again, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Your words of affirmation have helped tremendously.

More as it happens.....

I am so glad that you did. It is a wonderful and informative book. When I read it, I had already admitted to myself and to family and friends that I was being abused and I would try and describe it but frankly, I think people thought I was nuts. I mean, so much of it is easy to say that he is just acting like an [censored] but the book opened my eyes as to exactly how those behaviors destroy your spirit. I read the second one too, also good, but the one you ordered is really ground breaking work, only 12 years out. Before that, there was no such abuse. One thing I would like to caution you is that a lot of people are not ready to hear about it. They may not believe you or understand. When I revealed the abuse, my family and friends understood that I was unhappy. But only a few friends knew that what I had experienced was abuse. I am still not convinced that my family gets it. But here is the thing and it will do you well to remember, should anyone dissapoint you in this fashion: sometimes, in order to admit that something is abusive, or that a member of your family was abused, you might have to look deeper into your own life. For example, my father had a difficult time believing what my ex did was abuse. In order for him to see it as abusive, he would truly have to admit hiw own controlling nature as a result of the abuse inflicted upon him by his parents. I hope that makes sense. Just know that because someone doesn't believe you or want to hear about it doesn't mean that it isn't real. Those people are still in their own states of denial. I am glad you found us here and have faith that you will find your own true self soon.

Blessings.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ManagingAngryPartner:
[QB] he took the showerhead that he installed in my home when he moved in!
ROFL!
In some ways, I'm starting to feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Especially as I tell my story and realize that I'm on the right track. Again, thank you.
symptom of abusive partner leaving you

At this point, the only thing I have control over is how effectively I heal, and I do plan to heal. you will succeed. now you will stop thinking he was right. you will realize you aren't crazy, mean, selfish, fat, skinny, or any other insult he has implied that you were

To Bellvue: I feel like you're onto something. I do expect this man to come back. I need to be prepared. He left a letter today (along with the keys to my home) which ended with.... "Thank you for being so patient and understanding." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
That is the hook. He gives you praise, which is designed to instill hope in you that he will reconsider and "forgive" you. He's planted the seed that you are "patient and understanding."

To keep that definition he has bestowed upon you, you will have to let him back in, little by little. You will have to be patient while he sorts his thoughts out. You will have to be understanding while he "finds himself". You'll have to wait on him while he goes through his "changes." I hope you are willing to renounce that patient and understanding title in favor of your self-esteem and your emotional health. If you do get to keep that title, that's NOT a plus.

I ordered The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. I'm thinking that reading this book immediately might help me stay centered should if he decides to come back agreeing to counseling. I'm still not giving up ALL hope, but I am realizing that the prospects of him coming to terms with his anger are very bleak. Just 'going' to a counselor isn't going to do it. This man must truly WANT to change.

Like I said earlier, he left out a hook. The bait wrapped around the hook is your identification as "patient and understanding." You can still win him back, in other words. And you're wondering whether to touch it. You still have hope. If he convinces you that he really WANTS to change, will you bite?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bellevue:
<strong>

symptom of abusive partner leaving you

Bellevue, I take it you've lived through this or have at the very least studied it in depth? Your comments are so 'right-on' and thought provoking. Thank you for taking the time to follow my story.

you will succeed. now you will stop thinking he was right. you will realize you aren't crazy, mean, selfish, fat, skinny, or any other insult he has implied that you were

I think that's been the 'problem' right along and I couldn't put my finger on it until now. I've never truly believed the labels he's thrown at me and the more he labeled (which was really mirroring and deflecting) the more I lost respect for him.

Most of the labels have been things like "insecure", "depressed", but the biggest trigger that was sure to evoke an angry tantrum was when he claimed I was "degrading" or "Humiliating".

Insecure and depressed were easy labels to dismiss, although I did give him the benefit of the doubt at one point and read up on symptoms of depression and insecurity. I felt like here's a man that's supposed to love me, I should at least take a look at the negative traits he's labeling me with. I dismissed them quite quickly, as did my therapist. If anything, I suffer from what some may term 'over-security'; where I'm perhaps too independent at times and my partner is left feeling not needed. Where I do show insecurities is in abandonment issues which remain 10 years after the death of my husband. I am working on this too, but I can say that being alone right now does not hurt like it did when I found myself widowed.

I've really struggled with the "humiliating" and "degrading" terms. I do admit that I have high levels of ego. At 40 years old, most would consider me quite successful. I have a Ph.D. and am blessed to work in a career I love tremendously. I own my own home, manage my long-term retirement plan, travel, yadda yadda yadda. I fully realize that at times I can come across as critical and very independent. I am truly working on this.

Where I disagree with partner was when he claimed that people don't like me, I'm a 'know-it-all', people are afraid to disagree with me, ect.... (I was deeply hurt by this, as there may be some speck of truth in his comments, but overall I don't believe these labels fit either.)

The second to last 'final straw' came when I said to my partner: "I thought I gave you those papers." He reacted very hostile and angry stating: "Well I must be a complete idiot then!". Now mind you, this was in a public place where he drew attention to us. When we left, I apologized and said: "Honey, I didn't mean that you were neglectful with the papers, I was honestly just trying to figure out if I asked you to put them here or I filed them with my stuff". That comment evoked a angry tirade that lasted about 15 minutes in the car where he was yelling at me, pounding his fist, saying..... "don't tell me you were just asking a question, you're not an idiot, I know better, you were humiliating me". WTF? This left me very confused.

The final straw was a similar incident in public, but this time all it took was a 'look'. I looked at him the wrong way, he accused me and the sales lady of 'laughing' at him; and proceeded to have an emotional hijacking right in Wal-Mart!

That's when the ultimatum came. I suggested WE needed counseling to be able to understand our actions better. He responded with the standard "I don't need counseling, you do". "If you wouldn't look at me like that, I wouldn't get angry." "You humiliated me". All the while, logically I knew that he humiliated himself.

BUT..... here's the kicker of all kickers...... when we talked about the incident the following day he said, and I quote: "You're lucky I didn't grab you by the arm and drag you out of the store." I'm thinking ...... "I'M LUCKY! You've got to be kidding me". I gave the ultimatum that instant. He chose to walk.


That is the hook. He gives you praise, which is designed to instill hope in you that he will reconsider and "forgive" you. He's planted the seed that you are "patient and understanding." To keep that definition he has bestowed upon you, you will have to let him back in, little by little. You will have to be patient while he sorts his thoughts out. You will have to be understanding while he "finds himself". You'll have to wait on him while he goes through his "changes." I hope you are willing to renounce that patient and understanding title in favor of your self-esteem and your emotional health. If you do get to keep that title, that's NOT a plus.

This comment confuses me. I would like to consider myself patient and understanding without risking my self-esteem and emotional health. Isn't it possible to do both?

Like I said earlier, he left out a hook. The bait wrapped around the hook is your identification as "patient and understanding." You can still win him back, in other words. And you're wondering whether to touch it. You still have hope. If he convinces you that he really WANTS to change, will you bite? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the big question. I'm hoping that the 3 books I ordered on abusive relationships will help me to figure out a 'game plan' should he want to return. There's a chance he won't, but my instincts are telling me to be prepared.

I have read about success stories where partners have undergone anger management and individual counseling and have truly learned alternative strategies for dealing with the anger. At this point, I don't know what to expect.

Right now, I don't know what my boundaries are for him proving success to me (should he decide to change). I don't expect this to be a short-term issue (I'm not even sure if he's going to end up realizing the problem); but I do feel that I need a solid game plan should he want to reconnect. Any advice here??

Again, thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to respond. Your thoughts are both highly respected and greatly appreciated.

<small>[ December 02, 2004, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: ManagingAngryPartner ]</small>

Whoopsie, in my above post I responded inside the bold 'quote' section. Your comments are italicized. Mine aren't. My final thoughts ended up neither bold or italicized. Obviously, I need a refresher course in html language <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear Managing:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
symptom of abusive partner leaving you

Bellevue, I take it you've lived through this ...

yes, I have. In another lifetime, I won't go into detail

"but the biggest trigger that was sure to evoke an angry tantrum was when he claimed I was "degrading" or "Humiliating".

[i]It sounds to me like he is the one who is insecure. He puts a meaning on a look you give or a phrase that you say, and reacts way out of proportion.
"... I should at least take a look at the negative traits he's labeling me with."

[i]In other words, you are open minded

"If anything, I suffer from what some may term 'over-security'; where I'm perhaps too independent at times and my partner is left feeling not needed."

[i]Oh, you mean you are a grownup? An adult? How refreshing!

"Where I do show insecurities is in abandonment issues which remain 10 years after the death of my husband. I am working on this too, but I can say that being alone right now does not hurt like it did when I found myself widowed."

[i]Insightful comment. Clearly you were very attached to your late husband. And capable of deep feelings.

"I've really struggled with the "humiliating" and "degrading" terms. I do admit that I have high levels of ego."

[i]You mean you have self-esteem? Darn, another grownup trait.

"I fully realize that at times I can come across as critical and very independent. I am truly working on this."

[i]Critical, as in unduly harsh in your judgments of others? Oh, well that's a good thing to work on. It's important to be tactful and kind. I have problems with tact and kindness myself. Independent? As in you can take care of yourself, you can manage your own life? Why, you GROWNUP you!

"Where I disagree with partner was when he claimed that people don't like me, I'm a 'know-it-all', people are afraid to disagree with me, ect.... (I was deeply hurt by this, as there may be some speck of truth in his comments, but overall I don't believe these labels fit either.)"

[i]YOU'RE a know-it-all? YOU? He's the one claiming to "know" that people don't like you, are afraid to disagree with you, etc. He "knows" all this? What did he do, take a poll of your acquaintances, neighbors, co-workers? So there may be a speck of truth. You may be a little arrogant. But for him to tell you that other people don't like you, is really arrogant of HIM. It's also dishonest and cowardly.

He feels degraded, and tries to dismantle your self-esteem by recruiting an anonymous army of "people" who think badly of you. Gag me.

"... this was in a public place where he drew attention to us. ......

"angry tirade ... 15 minutes in the car where he was yelling at me, pounding his fist, saying..... "don't tell me you were just asking a question, you're not an idiot, I know better, you were humiliating me". WTF? This left me very confused."

[i]confused? Of course. It was senseless and way out of proportion to the incident. It was a verbal assault, with threatening "fist pounding" gestures, intended to humiliate and intimidate you. He needed 15 minutes of tantruming to get back at a perceived humilitation.

"... a similar incident in public, a 'look'. I looked at him the wrong way, he accused me and the sales lady of 'laughing' at him; and proceeded to have an emotional hijacking right in Wal-Mart!"

[i]So you need to control your eye movements now? An eye movement is reason to create a scene? Even if you HAD been laughing at him with the clerk, a civilized adult could have handled that with grace, humor, dignity.

"I don't need counseling, you do". "If you wouldn't look at me like that, I wouldn't get angry." "You humiliated me". All the while, logically I knew that he humiliated himself.

[i]You said "standard." Hon, you got it. That is what the abuser says when his victim tries to caretake the relationship with professional help. You are willing to be scrutinized, criticized, to do homework assignments to restore the relationship. You are even willing to have a counselor tell you "everything he says is right; it's all your fault." YOU are willing to take the risk. Signs of a mature, responsible adult willing to be in a committed relationship. It's very clear. He's projecting.

YOU go fix yourself lady. YOU change, because it isn't him with the problem. Go change, and be thankful someone like him is willing to put up with someone like you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> [i]You got the sarcasm, I hope.

"he said, and I quote: "You're lucky I didn't grab you by the arm and drag you out of the store." I'm thinking ...... "I'M LUCKY! You've got to be kidding me". I gave the ultimatum that instant. He chose to walk."

[I]You're 40 years old, you hold a PhD, etc. etc. and thank goodness you have a clear sense of reality. Another implied threat, to cow you. If you stay with him, you need to monitor your thoughts, play only pre-approved thoughts on a running tape in your mind so that your expression, your very eye movements, will not humiliate or degrade your partner. Your thoughts and feelings will need to be censored.

Remember the Twilight Zone episode with the little boy who was able to make happen anything he wanted to? Everyone around him had to control their thoughts because the child was so powerful that he could read the minds of those around him. If they criticized, or complained, the consequences were horrendous. The mere threat of what he could do was "you're lucky I don't......"

"This comment confuses me. I would like to consider myself patient and understanding without risking my self-esteem and emotional health. Isn't it possible to do both?"

[i]You probably ARE patient and understanding. I only know you from our posts. Your partner's opinion of you is NOT a good one. As long as he sees you in such a bad light, you will come to doubt yourself and your self-esteem will wither and your emotional health will fade.

"If he convinces you that he really WANTS to change, will you bite?[/i] [/qb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the big question. ... 3 books ... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

You don't need 3 books to tell you this is an abusive relationship. You're a smart woman.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...should he want to return. There's a chance he won't, but my instincts are telling me to be prepared. [QUOTE]

"....alternative strategies for dealing with the anger."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

At this point, I don't know what to expect.

"I do feel that I need a solid game plan should he want to reconnect. Any advice here??"

[i]Not from me. I admit to a strong anti-reconnect bias. But maybe others on the Board can help. Why not take time to enjoy your freedom for awhile, rather than educating yourself on how to turn a viper into a pussycat.

<small>[ December 02, 2004, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Bellevue ]</small>

ManagingAngryPartner:

You're on the right path. I read your post with much sympathy for the situation you find yourself in right now. I think you were given a wonderful piece of advice: ask yourself if you would want your son to grow up to be like this man.

My therapist told me something last night that I think I always knew, but had never really acknowledged. He said:

M_______making mature decisions about your relationship isn't always painless. You've been telling me what you need and you've also been telling me that you're not getting what you need. Are you willing to put up with not getting what you need for the rest of your life if your husband decides not to make the changes he's promised to make? It's painful to make a decision to walk away from someone you love deeply, but if that person isn't working with you and isn't acknowledging your needs, you must make a choice. Stay, and feel resentful and abused and have it blow up again a few years down the road, or leave, with your self-esteem firmly in place and a pain around your heart? Only you can decide what you are willing to put up with.

This statement of his managed to help me put a lot of things into perspective and it gave me a great deal of peace to do so.

Sometimes list-making can be helpful. I keep a spreadsheet of the times my husband does the things I need, and of the times he refuses to do them, either from sheer thoughtlessness or deliberation. Right now, my spreadsheet is severely out of balance, but at least I have a picture of my relationship that doesn't lie. I have hope, however, that my husband will make the changes. Unlike your fiance, my husband has agreed to and is in individual counseling as well as couples counseling with me. I'm in individual counseling as well. He doesn't blame me for everything and he does admit that he did a pretty good job of screwing things up all by himself.

I guess my point is this: Step back and try to evaluate your relationship. Make a pros and cons list. Be brutally honest. Ask yourself: If I didn't think I were in love with this man, would I choose him as a friend? How does he treat his friends? How has he treated his past relationships? Is he always the victim? Does he take any responsibility for his actions at all?

A real eye-opener for me was (no plug intended) Dr. Phil's relationship rescue book. The exercises in it provide a lot of insight into both individuals. He doesn't have to do the exercises in order for you to benefit from it yourself. I ended up learning much about myself and understanding why I have some of the behaviors I have.

Anyway, I'm truly sorry about your situation and I hope you will work it out in the manner which is best for you and your self-esteem.

Keep reading here - these folks are awesome and they have a lot of good advice and insight.

Usk.