I know the pain associated with being cheated on and the anger directed towards the one who has slept with your spouse. Here is a promise that you should hold on to. It is from God so you KNOW it's true.

Can a man scoop up fire and put it inside his shirt without getting burned? Can
a man walk with his bare feet on hot coals without getting singed? That is what
happens when a man sleeps with another mans's wife. You cannot do that and get
away with it. Prov. 6:28-29

And the one who is sleeping with your spouse will not get away with it either. Believe that.
And believe this; that the one who is sleeping with your spouse is cursed. Check this out.

But the Lord withheld His blessings from Pharoah and his house, and soon everyone
became sick because Sarai was being kept in the king's palace. So Pharoh called
Abram in and said, "What have you done to me! Why didn't you tell me the truth,
that Sarai is your wife?...Your God revealed the truth to me. So now take your
wife and go!" Gen. 12:17-18

It is also said:

for a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again; but the wicked are overthrown by calamity. Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles; lest the LORD see it, and be displeased,
and turn away his anger from him. - Prov 24:16-18

So be careful how you take that statement.

Thanks No one special- I also want to add, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you...
Kindness leads to repentance..
Definitely be careful not to use the Bible-God's love story to us, as a weapon.

But, deadtoitall, you missed something. What if god told the adulterers that that was his will? What if god told them he wanted them together for a ministry? What if god blessed the adultry and therefore to not have the affair would be to deny god's will?

That's the reasoning my ex WW and the OM gave. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

For some strange reason I could never get her to talk to our pastor. I wonder why? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Justin -

It's strange, isn't it? My WH was asked to leave our church of 17 years, when I went for counseling there, until he went to talk to one of the pastors.

He says the same thing, that God brought him and OW together, and that is why it doesn't bother him. Several times he has been depressed and I ask him to talk to someone from church - he refuses.

WH even admits to me that OW is not really a christian, even though she claims to be. She has abandoned her 12 year old daughter to be with my WH. WH is planning on the two of them doing some kind of ministry together. Yikes, the fog is thick.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JustinExplorer:
<strong> But, deadtoitall, you missed something. What if god told the adulterers that that was his will? What if god told them he wanted them together for a ministry? What if god blessed the adultry and therefore to not have the affair would be to deny god's will?

That's the reasoning my ex WW and the OM gave. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

For some strange reason I could never get her to talk to our pastor. I wonder why? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thats pretty funny because my WH stupid OW's pastor supposedly told them it was ok to be together because WH declared our "relationship" was over...I suppose my opinion or the fact that we are still married legally and in gods eyes doesn't apply...right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ January 06, 2005, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: surviving in his wake ]</small>

Hey there D2IA… how are “things”?

I too like this proverb… my translation is a little different in its wording though… “...no one who touches her will go unpunished.” Is how the NIV translation reads. That thought has given me great comfort over the last couple of months. Not that “bad” things are going to happen to OM… but that there WILL be justice in the end. Maybe not on this earth or in this life… but there will be justice. I mean, the dude (OM) has to spend eternity somewhere, right? Far be it for me to say where that will be… but I have a hard time believing that upon his arrival at the pearly gates Jesus will be greeting him and saying “…welcome home my good and faithful servant.” Of course there is the possibility that he will repent and start walking the righteous path… but then knowing what I know of him and seeing what I’ve seen… I kinda doubt that too.

Actually, I took great comfort in Proverbs 5, 6, and 7. All three deal directly with adultery. Proverbs 5 and 6 are warnings against adultery and 7 is a warning to the adulteress. Reading and rereading these allowed me to release the anger and resent I had towards my WW and OM. It made me realize that they don’t need to answer to me… and that I should pray for them and their souls as they WILL get theirs in the end… and the end is A LOT closer than they probably realize.

Allow me to add to what has already been quoted…

“Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man’s wife? For a man’s ways are in full view of the Lord, and He examines all his paths. The evil deeds of a wicked man ensnare him; the cords of his sin hold him fast. He will die for lack of discipline, led astray by his own great folly.”
Proverbs 5: 20-23

…oops! Things ain’t look’n so good for OM now are they…!?!??


“…for the prostitute reduces you to a loaf of bread, and the adulteress preys upon your very life.”
Proverbs 6:26

This one made me laugh for a second… then I cried. Seems that the Lord must hold prostitutes in higher regard than WW’s. For a prostitute will only charge you a loaf of bread, whereas a wayward wife charges you your soul. It made me sad that my lovely wife has reduced herself to this. Again though… not looking good for OM.


“But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. Blows and disgrace are his lot, and his shame will never be wiped away….”
Proverbs 6:32-33

“With persuasive words she led him astray; she seduced him with her smooth talk. All at once he followed her like an ox to the slaughter, like a deer stepping into a noose till an arrow pierces his liver, like a bird darting into a snare, little knowing it will cost him his life.”
Proverbs 7:21-23

“Her house is a highway to the grave, leading down to the chambers of death.”
Proverbs 7:27


Now, I find it hard to believe that OM was/is as ignorant and naïve as these passages elude Other Men to be, that he was seduced by my WW… I think he played a more active role in making the affair happen; but nonetheless he is headed for a world of hurt and an eternity of torment if nothing changes. I do believe he is too stupid to see that. What this did for me though, as I mentioned earlier, was to allow me to release a lot of the anger and bitterness I had. I realized that they were not necessarily accountable for their actions to me… or society even… but they are accountable in the broader sense of things… and assuming nothing changes… they will get exactly what is due them.

When I told WW that I forgave the two of them, her response was as suspected… she was skeptical and took the “actions speak louder than words” attitude. I simply told her that for me to forgive them was relatively easy (which it turned out not to be… although I didn’t realize it at the time) but then again they didn’t have to answer to me. She stood there looking at me like she didn’t have a clue what I was talking about… then it seemed to hit her. She knew EXACTLY what I was talking about, only it appeared that this never occurred to her before. Funny thing though… that realization hasn’t changed a thing. That was 3 months ago. I pray daily for her soul.

That's true WMWB! I think these passages are meant to ease us when certain feelings arise. He can do more to the situation than we can ever imagine and it is good to know that He will handle it.


But someone said not to use the Bible as a weapon. Huh??? The Bible is a weapon, a very powerful weapon, sharper than any two edged sword. We are in a serious, serious battle and the only weapon we have is the Word of God. So I say, use your weapon, be skilled in its use, because if you don't....what excuse do you have when you are confronted with spiritual wickedness and evil and all the other stuff? The Bible has many uses but one of the uses is a weapon.

Hmmm,
I think that depends on how you think of the Bible as a weapon.

If you're speaking of the internal struggle we face against the Enemy every day, then yes, I' would say you are correct. The Bible provides the strength and wisdom that we need to fight that Enemy everyday. However, that battle is generally waged inside of us and the battlefield is our heart.

If you are speaking of using the Bible as a weapon to attack other people for perceived sins, then I would disagree. It is not our place to exact vengeance or judge, even when we have been hurt badly. To use the Bible to fight a moral war against someone is a misrepresentation, IMO.

The message I get is that if you try to live a righteous life, you will be OK in the end. The Lord will protect you. I'm not sure expecting God to take revenge against your enemies plays into it. He may, but I don't feel it is out place to expect or ask for that.

I think that those who oppose right living will take the words of the Bible as an attack any way you put it. It is used for correction, admonishing, warning and a lot of other good things. But if you are bent on doing wrong you will automatically take this as an attack. For evil, for wrongdoers (and that includes me) the Bible is a cutting tool. In that, it is a weapon. But it is used for other things as well.

Noonespecial, I wanted to thank you for both your posts. They were very helpful and well said. It's so important to remember first about the importance of forgiveness and not playing God and second, that the only person we can change is ourselves - each of these points is part of the MB program.

As is so often the case, BOTH positions are correct. Scripture IS a weapon! Of the highest order. Adultery IS sin, again of the highest order! And God is forever and eternally against adultery, affairs, SIN!

God DOES ask us to be merciful, forgiving, and turn the other cheek, pray for those who despitefully use us, etc. Scripture IS His love story to a fallen world.

BOTH are true! As always, the real direction lies in this seeming tension of disagreement between these equal Truths! And this always directs us into the inner chambers of our hearts...with God!!!

What are our motives? Where do our deepest affections lie? Is there hatred & envy & revenge there? Would we be willing for God to save both our WS and the OW / OM should any of them come to true repentance?

This is all about "hating the sin...and loving the sinner"!! The sort of inner God-given spirit that prayed "Father forgive them, they don't know what they're doing!"

So? Yes! Claim God's promises! But claim them equally!! Claim the overthrow of evil and vengeance/repayment BY GOD! But simultaneously ask God to forgive them should they at all be willing, for He is faithful and JUST to forgive them and cleanse them from all unrighteousness!

May God lead us all, woundED and woundING to this place of Christlikeness is my prayer!

High Flight

Highflight, I hear ya.

The only way I've been able to pray for my husband's repentance and his girlfriend/live-in's salvation is to also add afterwards

"But Lord even though I pray for their salvation / repentance I still pray you rip them apart from each other because they are fornicating and that is obviously NOT your will."

I don't think I could handle my husband repenting and Cheryl getting saved and them then living out the life that was originally destined for my husband and I.

I can't handle him being the man I needed him to be for HER.

This has evolved into a rather interesting discussion, one that I have spent considerable time contemplating over the last couple of months. That is the subject of Christian forgiveness. If any of you have read C.S. Lewis’ book “Mere Christianity” you know that his take on forgiveness, in the Christian sense, is that it is the ultimate form of charity. That is, charity in this sense is a departure from the modern sense of the word that much of society equates with giving money to the downtrodden. He means that given the greatest command of Jesus, for us to love one another as ourselves, forgiveness is the truest means of loving your neighbor (and your enemy… in my case one in the same) as yourself. Now he is quick to point out that a great many people get lost in the language here… thinking that they are commanded to find fondness in their hearts for a person who has done them a great wrong. That is clearly not the case. I can love myself, in the sense that I forgive myself when I screw up, and honestly want only the best for myself, yet at the same time not necessarily like myself all that much for what I have done. In fact, I could, theoretically, hate myself for a given act yet love myself in that I am still looking out for my best interests. It gets kinda complicated and he takes two chapters to walk the reader through the argument… but in essence, what he is saying is this. One can forgive the sinner for the sin and NOT like the person or condone, or give approval to, the action.

Lewis’ take is that, as Christians, we are commanded to act lovingly (for in the act, the reality is formed) for all mankind. That is, put another way, we are to treat them as we would be treated. We are to look out for them as we look out for ourselves. I don’t know about you all… but I sure as hell am NOT perfect. I hurt people around me, I sin, I make stupid decisions and stupid mistakes all the time. As such, I sure hope that those around me affected by my indiscretions and shortcomings (i.e.: my simply being a human being) are able to forgive me for what I’ve done. Surely, though I suffer from my decisions and actions, perhaps a far greater percentage of the time than anyone else, I find it within myself to forgive ME for what I’VE done. The take I get from Christianity is that God only expects the same treatment for others that I allow myself. Given that Jesus died on that cross for my sins to be washed away… it seems the least I can do to forgive others.

Now, I’ll agree that theology; for all it is worth is a nice concept to ponder, but where does the rubber meet the road… how does one apply it under pressure? Good question. And this is where it gets tricky, at least for me; for this is where perhaps the greatest sin of all creeps in and really screws things up. And that is pride. I find myself not wanting to forgive; I don’t think they deserve it. I find myself thinking of how classy I’ve conducted myself, how upright and righteous I have been and how utterly evil and rotten they have been. I seem to bestow upon myself some sort of martyr status. “They are to be condemned and punished… not forgiven, if not in this life then surely the next” is what I tell myself. Then I go about all my interactions with WW with this sort of moral superiority, knowing that I will be saved and she is to burn in hell. “Why”, I tell myself, “I ought to pity her… poor thing. She has no idea what is in store for her.” How arrogant is that? You see, this is another point where I don’t particularly like what I’ve done (at least in thought) yet, I forgive myself.

So were does that leave us? To be honest, I don’t really know. I’ve come to this point were I realize that it is utterly futile to attempt to do “this” on my own. I can’t, I’m incapable… it is outside of the design limitations of the human spirit. So, I pray. I pray long and hard for guidance, forgiveness, the ability to humbly and honestly forgive, and at this point I pray for God to work a miracle in my WW and OM so they will “repent and sin no more” …as Jesus told the young woman accused of adultery. It seems to me that this prayer for their repentance, for them to see with clarity and conviction the evil and horror of their actions, this prayer is the best way for me to fulfill the command to love one another… it is the best compassion and charity I am capable of showing them at this point. But then again, maybe I’m just patting my ego on the back for thinking this way. For me, I take comfort in my intent. That is to say, I don’t intend them harm. I want them to see with clarity and act accordingly. I want for them their salvation, and I want them to actively participate in securing it. I want nothing for myself… at least I don’t think I do… I only want the best for the wife that I love so much, and the guy that took her away from me. I, of course preface that by noting that, in my opinion, the best for them is to find and walk the righteous Christian path. “Repent and sin no more.”

Sorry if this little essay wandered off course a little. The subject matter has been one that I find myself somewhat taken with over the last couple of months and I feel I am only now beginning to get a handle on it. Of course, as life always seems to do, every time I think I’ve got it… I soon find out that I haven’t got a clue.

<small>[ January 12, 2005, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

Maaannn,
You just hit the nail on the head. That's my current dilemma. On the one hand, I hope my ex has a good life, I wish her the best, and I want her to be truly happy. I can honestly say that I hold no resentment toward what she did, and I've been done dirtier than most on this board.

At the same time, I know I could never trust her again, I could never be good to her again, and I don't think I could take her back. I don't want her in my life, she's not for me anymore.

Does this mean that I have forgiven her or not?

Want my wife back ~ wow. For being only 28 you've certainly picked up a lot of wisdom. A good post to ponder.


Noonespecial - I don't know if you've truly forgiven her or not. I guess just pray and ask God to reveal to you if you have any bitterness or anger tucked away somewheres.

- I know I do a lot of times (have tucked anger and not so tucked anger)

But I wouldn't say that just because you don't want her back that it neccesarily means you haven't forgiven her. Maybe God's plan for the rest of your life is different than that and you're at peace with it. I don't know since I don't know your full situation, but that was the impression I got.