How sad for you, I am sorry. Abusive type of men don't like to let go as they lose control doing so. They need someone there to blame their lives on and vent on it seems to me. Give yourself space I guess, I'm no expert but glad you found this site, it's a very supportive one you'll find.

Horsey--
Go easy on yourself. I wish I could sit down with you and pour you tea out on the lawn and reassure you!
Of course, your dad's health is more important to you. I'm sorry. I didn't take all that in earlier.
Good greif, you have a lot on your plate.
Your dad, if he's like my dad, kind to my mom but not always the easiest father in the world, is WAY more important than duking it out with the tormentor in your life.
You know, the counselors you've had sound like they suck. Puting you on meds because, "obviously" your H is a wonderful man!
We went to a counselor once too and we talked about our disagreements-- didn't even mention the fact that I was being abused.
We simply weren't being real, or representing the truth in the slightest.
When we went back, it was for real, but the new counselor thought we could work things out... however, he seemed to think that I'd just be over it *snap* and we'd move on.
Your H of course wants you back-- look at all you did for him! Gave him a home, a son, your love.... you're wise to keep your distance.
if it were me, I'd be concentrating on my dad and my son right now too.
The divorce can happen later. Just keep away, and do what you need to to take care of you and yours.
my thoughts are with you, and your family.
Lucy

Gingernsap--
WElcome, and I'm sorry you are here.
I don't think you will regret it.
But that is my personal take on it. Most of the women I've met who have been through a relatinoship like this are stronger, better and so much happier after they cut themsevles free from the dead weight.
Know what I mean?
It's like an arm that has ganegreen. You cut it off, and are better off without it, but you do have to get used to not having it there, even if wasn't serving you well, or at all.
Amputation has to hurt somewhat, you know?
I'm in the "So Glad I'm Free" stage that I can't imagine having lived ith the arm a moment longer.
My Divorce isn't done, heck, it hasn't even been filed yet, but I have had time to get used to the idea, and see clearly that it's what's best for me.
Your children, no matter how old, need to see you being strong, I think.
I hope this encourages you!
Lucy

I gained a lot from the book, Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay... is that the right title? Skimmed it at a bookstore, it goes through studies on couples, if they left under certain scenerios would they be happier or have regrets. There was discussion on this site about the book, many read it. Of course in abuse cases most studies show people are happier once they leave such a relationship as it destroys self esteem and makes you depressed to always be on the defense. I'm happier separated at least for now, needed my space. Some states require separation before divorce, I can see why, you sure think a lot for a number of months, and a divorce should not be taken lightly.

Yes, I have WAY too much on my plate. It's not the time to fight with my husband and duke it out as you call it. My dad and child are more important. I know how attorneys can be, after money, they dont' care, I"m not ready for it right now. There will be a time, just not now. My husband is job hunting, he needs to figure out what he wants in life and where he wants to live without me. He's been so materialistic, thought I was, I left that lifesstyle and our big house, he didn't think I would. Now he's alone there, with himself and only himself for a time. Maybe he'll wake up, at the moment I dont' even have the energy to care, perhaps that's what he needs - I've been guilty of loving too much and enabling.

I'm done. For now. Just need some peace and time to cope with my dad right now.

Just wanted to share... I've been reading a very insightful book called "Safe People" - and am realizing many things that were going on in my relationship that I couldn't see until I left.

This book talks about behaviors and attitudes of unsafe people, and also safe people. The intent is to help people recognize the unhealthy patterns in their relationships, and also how to tell healthy (safe) people from (unsafe) unhealthy people. I now realize there were patterns in my H's behavior that were there when I met him, but I didn't recognize them for what they were.

Now, I will need to go back and read it a second time to look at my own behaviors. That may be a bit more difficult! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My H had an A 2yrs ago,never wanted to do anything to help us recover from it.He felt that because he did not leave for OW that I should just forget it ever happened because that is what he was going to do....ha!!

We have been seperated for 7months(wow it does not seem that long)and I filed for a D in Jan.

He thinks that if he does not sign the paper work we wont get a D and it is just one more thing he wont have to deal with.

I talk to him and can see that he is how he has always been,there is little hope that he will ever change and so I sit and wonder why in the world I feel the way I do.

I will look for the books suggested and thanks for the input.I guess I just need a support system right now like way back then when I just found out!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The same authors wrote a book about Button Pushers and how to deal with them, it's really good as well. Also Boundaries.

I don't know why, I read so much, am on this site, have been to counselors - still it doesn't seem like I can act on what I'm learning.

Guess everyone that is going through this sort of feels the same, easier said then done, so much of the advice and such.

I just feel stuck right now, not sure if I should move on with my life or not. Dont' you wish there was a crystal ball that would tell you what would happen with various options?

Someone accused me of being in denial today. Maybe it's true. Why would I even want to consider reconciling after all I've been through in this marriage. Oh, yes, i was up late last night researching marriage weekends for couples on the brink of divorce. I open myself up to this man, have over and over again, just to get burnt. My gosh, it's hurt my health, my sanity, my sense of peace about life. How much can one take? What's wrong with me that I'd consider going back to that hell hole of a marriage?

He thinks I can move back and we'll just "not fight anymore". But a counselor said we are entrenched in what we do, the way we fight, it's the same thing over and over again. True the shrinks we've seen have been crazy, yes, the last one didn't even address that I was being abused, just helped me figure out how to lower the charges against him. A few little disagreements, that's all, however they including pushing/shoving/slapping/being shoved into the floor, that's all. No big deal. Guess if you ask a shrink to save your marriage, they'll do it, there's money in it for them. Even if they know the writing is on the wall, they'll do it, quick cash it seems. I wonder if shrinks are worse then attorneys because we actually "trust" them. Some of what I've seen has been so unethical.

Well, I'm off to be with my dad who's dying of cancer for 10 days, the flight leaves Friday. Yes, I need to concentrate on that and my baby, keeping my distance from my husband. One shrink said to keep the conversations short and brief, know just what to say to him at any given time. If he asks me to move back in, stand my ground on the six month separation. Make him get his life toether, go to counseling, get a new job, and such. I feel so sorry for him, it's absurd, but as my wise mom say's he has a lot of lessons to learn about how he's put his money and materialism first. Plus he needs God and help, some values. He's a very shallow man, who's lost his heart somewhere in life...

My little boy is such a joy. Should I feel bad that we created a child in this marriage. I separated from my husband just to get pregnant when I moved back in, obviously not trying to. I love the kid to death, just feel bad now and then about him not having a home with two parents like children deserve.

Another good book is "Why Does He Do That"-- what I found particularly helpful were the "how to tell he's changing" lists and "how to tell he's not" list.
Not every man is going to do everything on the list, but.... it helped me in deciding if I could appeal the Temporary Order of Protection or not.
Lucy

(((((BIG HUG)))))) for ((((((((((HORSEY))))))))

Denial is a necessary state. It's not great, and sometimes I wonder what it's purpose really is, but it does have one.
It's not a crime to be "in denial" and anyway, it's not like you can make yourself become suddenly out of denial.
I think denial is keeping you from being rubbed raw. Like a blister on your foot protecting your shoe.
Horsey, don't beat yourself up over being too loving, even if it means your husband was enabled. You don't have all the answers, most likely never will, and you just put all that love towards your little boy, who might only have one parent, but who has enough love for two.

Lucy

Peace to you and your family.

Hi everyone,
I'm new here. I just separated from my WH in Dec. of 2004. He lives in his mom's basement and I'm in our home with our 5 kids. One of my kids is just 4 mo. old. We live 30 minutes from town so you can imagine the driving I do all day. My WH has been lying to me for over 3 years and having who knows what with internet dating and co-workers and all the while telling me he loves me (with tears no less) I now have an opportunity to heal along with my kids and we're just entering into Christian counseling that is very solid indeed. They have told me that I have biblical grounds to divorce. But I haven't filed yet because my WH begs me to allow him to change. He makes me sick because he doesn't yet see the deep wounds his behavior has caused and tells me he wants to come home in May. (We made a plan and I layed out for him what I can't allow anymore) But 2 weeks ago when I visited with the kids at his mom's I saw the internet porn. in the cookies. He never confesses till I catch him first. I would like to have a relationship with a grownup. Wouldn't you? I'm at the point where I don't know if he'll ever change despite his words which mean almost nothing anymore. (When he was working in CHicago he ordered online some sex toys) I asked him what that was about and he said they went in the garbage as soon as he got them. More lies. He was socking away money with a separate bank account and when I needed $$ for shoes for the kids he always said we were broke. When he filed his W2 forms at work I told him to claim all the kids so we would have more cash upfront and he lied and claimed 0. So now I get the tax return he was planing on having which is over 6 grand. He was planning on having that himself. Oh boy. So I got all these responsibilities now and he thinks I have the time on the phone to listen to him whine about how much he misses us. How I long for a grown up relationship. Sorry so long. I'm new here. I like this place a lot.

Hello all! It's "What Am I Doing?" here with my new name!

I haven't posted in awhile, very busy with work and such, plus getting D financial statements and things. For those of you considering a D, keep the most detailed financial records as possible. Keep your receipts for EVERYTHING while you are separated, especially if your H is not contributing.

I also recommend to you sweet ladies to keep a journal of your thoughts. I know we are here at MB, but sometimes everyday things happen that we should write down somewhere. I particularly like to write down conversations with Fogman. He NEVER remembers what he says to me (a sign of LYING), so he gets pissed when I remind him of silly foggy things he has said.

Alas, that is in the past now. I am so happy to be ready for this divorce. Fogman has ripped my family to shreds and I am going to sew it back together, cutting away the ratty threads of his presence.

I don't have to talk to him because of the RO. I thank God every single day for that RO. Fogman would still be harrassing me and flaunting his horrible A in my face. Everything goes through the lawyers. I LOVE my L, she specializes in D and family law and is extremely intelligent. His L is a moron.

It took the A to wake me up. This has not been easy. It took me at least 7 months to make the actual decision and actually file.

I too have been abused (yelled at, demeaned, pushed down, threatened, etc.) all in front of my precious children. I am reading a book by the same author of "Why does he do that?" (Lundy Bancroft) called "When Dad Hurts Mom...Helping your children heal from witnessing abuse" It is fantastic.

Fogman has been abusing me since we dated. Yes, I am also a strong-willed woman who reacted to the abuse with my own defense mechanisms (these have been mentioned by Lucycakes previously). Fogman accuses me of abusing him. This is classic for an abuser, they absolutely cannot take responsibility for their own actions. Add in drug addiction and an A...well, there's no amount of MB that can fix that, I reckon. He only cares for himself, no one else's needs are truly important, not even his precious OW.

I know this is long, but I wanted to join back in and keep this going. Welcome to all newly separated W's. You will get wonderful support here, and maybe a rap on the head while you're at it!

I have an exciting job interview on Monday in PA. I'll post again when I get back next week!

((((((((((To All)))))))))))))

Kids Mom--
Welcome. Sorry you are here, but this is a good place to build a real marriage, or get support for ending a bad one.
I don't know if you have this problem, but I know I felt really torn about divorce because I don't beleive in divorce. I am pro-marriage. I didn't think of myself as divorce material. But it isn't about me. It's about the M I was in. It was thrown out by my H long ago.
I now know I can believe in marriage, and part of that is recognizing that mine wasn't going to be saved. That there was no saving it.
Like how a good doctor knows sometimes you have to amputate.
I guess I feel a bit like the proverbial amputee now... my necrotic arm was ailing and wasn't going to get better. There wasn't a doctor in the world that could save it. Since I've cut it off, I feel better. No longer lugging around the dumb useless and painful thing! But I miss having my arm and I have to relearn how to do everything without it.
Not like my H was much of a help-- I was single handed before then anyway.
Maggles,
My STBX wants to be friends with me now.
I just don't know if I have it in me.
I am a nice person and a good friend. I know he needs a real friend.
I want to do what jesus would do.
But I'm not a saint.
Lucy

Hey Lucycakes

I read your other thread based on Lundy Bancroft's book. I need to get that book. Fogman is not very introspective, unfortunately. He still couldn't believe that his feelings for his OW were not "real". He's a lost cause, and will forever blame the world (especially me) for all of his problems.

About you being "friends" with your STBX...Would he be someone you would actually hang out with and trust if you met him now? It sounds like he is trying to manipulate you again. He needs to find his own friends and get a life. Whether he needs a friend or not, you cannot be there for him anymore so he'd better get used to it, huh?

I know it sounds harsh, but at the same time, this sounds like a very normal part of the letting go process. I love the amputation analogy...it is so true.

MB is not really an option for us as far as working on the M with the H's because of the abuse. I have learned so much here about what a wonderful M could and should be... Ours never even came close, although I thought I was happy. I took what I could get for a long time, not really recognizing the effects of the abuse until now.

The job interview was fantastic!!!!!!!! I'll hear soon if they want to offer me the job. I am so totally trusting in God to provide for us and to put me where I need to be (I am a nurse). I need to obtain permission from the court to leave the state with the kids, but they said they could wait for me! The money and hours are really decent, too. Making these small steps towards moving on is very energizing for me. The kids visited where they will be going to school/pre-school while we were there. That also went VERY well. They are such little angels. Now if I could only get the 9 month-old to not nurse every hour at night (she is getting 2 teeth)...

Maggels,
You're a nurse, huh? Well, you ought to be able to move anywhere you like then.
What sort of nurse are you?
Good job with the interview! I had one today too. It's just to be a secretary, but for a company I can feel good about working for. They do some behavioral health, and I'd have to work with kids who have been in abusive homes a bit.
BUt maybe I'll get the job and there was a reaon I have endured what I have after all? Maybe I'm meant to do that sort of work.
I don't know. BUt I do know I've applied for 38 jobs, have been to about 19 interviews and haven't been offered anything I felt I could take. BUt now, if I get offered this, I'll take it. I've been praying that I am offered a job where I need to be. I have given it to God and asked him to take care of us-- he knows what I need to be doing.
WE'll see though. I haven't gotten the offer yet!
PLans are good to have, and I know for myself, I feel a lot better when I'm working towards something.
I'm off to go swim with my son. I have to be able to do 11 laps in 15 minutes to pass a test next week, and I did 11 in 25 minutes last WEdnesday (but with a few breaks included).
Wish me luck!
Lucy

I'm new to Marriage Builders. I must be in the wrong area because this string of posts suggests everyone has lost hope and is depressing. Where does a Husband go whose wife has filed and get advice on how to reconcile.

Dog Pound-

Start a new thread with your question. That is the best way to get a dialogue going. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I'll look out for you.

Lucycakes-

I'm an OB/Pediatric nurse with 16 years experience. The recruiter called and wants to offer me the job! It sounds so super. Nursing is a wonderful career. When you've been a nurse for so long, you want to be able to pick and choose your next position. And I am so picky! I was very impressed by the manager and other nurses.

I hope that moving will not be an issue, but when Fogman is involved in anything, it's bound to be murky at best. The hurt still comes in waves, but there are good days.

My 8 year-old just came up to me and hugged me and told me he loves me. (Yes, he's up late, no school this week!) He is the most amazing little guy who has had to grow up way too fast in the last year.

I just had a horrible idea...I would LOVE to send Fogman and OW a Happy Anniversary card (it's been a year, those jerks). Someone needs to talk me out of it QUICK!!!!!! LOL

Dog Pound,
Either repost here your own new topic about needing to reconcile, or go to the emotional needs side.

Maggles,
I'm so glad you hvae a rewarding career. I wish I was WORKING. About now anything would be good.
I"m in school as well, night and internet classes. WE'll see if I keep up wiht uit or not.
Don't send the card, unless doing so makes you laugh.
I mean, for me, I have to find humor and entertainment in all of this or I'll go crazy.
But I can understand that that is no everyone's cup of tea.
My sister is a NICU nurse.
I love the information nursing gives a person, and the tools it puts in a person's toolbox. All the A & P and nutrition information is stuff I think everyonie should know just to understand living in their bodies better.
I really admire the work you do.
Lucy

Just spent 10 days with my dad and mom, my father is dying of cancer, likely only has less then six months left at this point. It's added stress to my marriage, maybe it was the breaking point. Life doesn't go on forever you know, when you deal with life and death you realise that first hand. I'm only 36, but really it means it could be 1/2 over, my life. I deserve to be happy.

I keep feeling guilt about leaving my husband. We've been separated since a bad fight right before Christmas. I feel bad for all he did for me, the big house he bought - he liked to grocery shop and cook, he helped with my business sometimes. I overreacted and lost it, verbally, but he was pushing my buttons over and over again at the worst point in my life. Yes, he physically pushed/shoved/grabbed me too.

I decided to stay separated for six months before filing for a divorce, some days I want to just do it. Other days I want to try to work with yet another counselor. But I can't seem to set myself up for more hurt. Seems like it's boiled down to a lot of painful memories. As I drove back from the airport it's like they all flashed before me - images of us fighting, of things he said, the meanness. I know I was wrong too. It's sad when relationships come to this, mostly I think out of selfishness - my husband and I were both very selfish, we wanted the "modern" marriage, both after our careers and the me, me, me, thing... it doesn't really work I found out, we were both resentful.

I'm happy for my little boy, he's going to be a year old in a month and he's such a joy, starting to walk and really get around. My husband is missing out, the first months he refused to help me at all with the baby, I was trying to work, fly out of state to see my dad, travel for business, etc. and even when Iw as so exhausted he wouldn't give me a hand. He said the baby was "my job..." now he blames it all on me - "look at what you've done to me." He's on probation for domestic violence and is required to go to 36 weeks of classes, he's broke from the cost of attorneys' and paying all the household bills that I used to help with. He sounds like a big baby. You know there's no "I'm sorry" am I holding my breath for those words?

He doesnt' seem to have a clue what he's done, how he hurt me and how serious this has been. Really he made a series of very bad decisions that led to this. Even with consequences he thinks it's all my fault. I don't get this, I've read some of the books people mention and I guess I'll never understand what makes marriages come to this. I never dreamed four years ago as we drove to our wedding it would be this way, such hurt - and especially not violence. A friend warned me he was controlling and it could lead to physical control, I didn't believe her. I feel more stupid because the writing was on the wall, hey my mom even gave me the Safe People book while I was dating him - hint, hint...

Yet after all this I can't get myself to just divorce him. Why? Denial? What? Separation is helping me get space and my sanity again. I have a little apartment that I have spent too much decorating. I didnt' feel like going back to his house to hall furniture. I just started over. I still have to go back to get clothes and other things. I bought a lot of new clothes too. Something about that house is poisonous, the thought of going back gives me the creeps. And it will also make it seem final, to get my stuff means to divorce? What about all the dreams, all the good times, the trips, the long talks, the times with his family, the good stuff? Why does it all come down to the bad?

I dont know Horsey. He's a very damaged soul. Damaged souls only know damage, I think.
I am in the same situation, only my H really is changing. But it's still too much. His really changing means he realizes he can't be married-- at least not to me.
He realizes he's not fit for marriage, for an intimate relatioship. He's realizing how much like his dad he is, and how much the "ouch"factor there is for him in knowing his dad sucks at intimacy-- even with his own son.
He pulls him in, and pushes him away. Over and over.
My H realizes he has this pattern with friends, with the women he's been lucky enough to have had in his life.
Even with all that realizing it, and even now that I've let the anger go (because I had to, it was killing me)we still don't stand a chance.
THe sad thing is that now that he's changing, I want him back. I want us to work out now-- I think we may finally have the chance. But he's got so long to go, and really he needs to go alone for a while.
How can I get on with my life knowing I had true love, and that he's becoming the man I want, but that he's going to move far far away.
He even gave up his truck and got a car that is'nt even 4WD because he syas he's leaving winter weather.
This is SO not like him.
I'm happy for him. Sad for me.
Sad for us.
And I don't know how I can date someone else when I'm still in love with him. I don't know how I can entertain the idea of marrying again when I know I was so close to having it good....
Nevermind what happened. I'm over it.
I spoke to him last week- he's at his grandmother's bed side. She's dying.
He cried saying she had a picture of the three of us, and wanted to know all about me and my son, she was so proud of him, he said.
I hoped he owned that pride. I said "Look, I need to tell you something. Not because you're crying right now. Not because I feel sorry for you. Not because of anything you've said or done... I need to be your friend. Because of me. I need the reason to let it all go and see you in a good light."
By the grace of god, I was allowed to get on higher ground.
And it's made all the difference in theworld for my outlook.
But it's also made me sadder... to know he'll be out there, somewhere, being a good person authentically, working on himself, and he won't be mine.
Horsey, have you read the how to tell he's changing and how to tell he's not thread?
It helped me a lot.
Lucy