Catnip,<P>I just read your reply. Yes of course I have issues and have had a lot of bad things happen to me in my life. Some were because of my own mistakes but others, like my pregnancy when I was 15, were because of others doing bad things to me. So I guess because of all these things I relate to more than one issue on this board. I don't think that by saying that a man would not feel as much anguish as a woman in these cases when a baby is given for adoption is blasting the wives. The wives are the victims 100%. But in all the pain you all are going through I think it is really easy to just see things in real black/white terms and God knows I've learned that is never the case. I do mostly lurk as you point out and really hardly ever post, only when something really gets me thinking. You don't have to apologize anyway. Boards are for saying what you want to say and I wasn't upset believe me. But there's all kinds of pain out there, you know? When we are in really bad pain we always feel that our pain is the worst pain anyone could ever have. I've been there a few times! But I've figured out in the long run that pain is just pain when it's bad enough. So at least you can believe that I know what it's like to be in pain because I have been. Anyway I'm really sorry about your financial problems. You know I have said to you before that I don't think the system is fair either. I think it takes too much. I don't think the OC can be financially denied 100% but I think the way it is now is very unfair. I am with you on that.<P>Del

K,<P>People who sin can be forgiven. Do you think your H can be forgiven? Also I don't think that this happened to you because you did something bad. And I don't think that because I made a mistake for which I truly repented that now something bad is going to happen to me anyway. Anyway there are alot of sides to this issue. Maybe it is most helpful at this point for you to see only one. The combination of things I've had in my life have caused me a lot of pain and believe me I didn't deserve all of them. And I do have some insight into this issue for alot of reasons I haven't gone into and some that I have. I don't have all the answers at all. I don't mean to come across as smug. Just because someone says something that is not the way you want to think does not make them smug. I have alot of faults for sure! but I don't think being smug is one of them. Making mistakes can make you smug or it can make you humble. With the help of God and some good counseling I hope mine have made me humble.<P>Del

K,<P>Opps, sorry forgot to say that I'm not defending the OW! The OW did something very wrong! It's just that your H's did something very wrong too! They both did. You didn't do anything to have this happen to you. K, life just isn't fair sometimes. Sometimes we just can't understand why something bad happens to us when we do everything right. Well, that's just how it is. It's not always fair. And it hasn't been fair to you at all right now. But anyway, I'm not defending either one. I'm just talking about issues other than just the black/white the OW is a whore, my husband is sorry and really a good person and now lets all move on and try our best to pretend the OC doesn't exist. That won't solve anything believe me! You did nothing to deserve what has happened to you but now it's in your lap. And the decisions you make now will effect you for the rest of your and your childrens lifes. And you are being asked to make them at a time when you are so hurt and so angry and in such anguish. So it really is important for you that sometimes you hear from someone who maybe sees things differently because of their experiences. Well at least I think so. I know I can't really say what would be important for you to know. Just know that your decisions now will sometimes be so longlasting and sometimes you can't undo them when you wish you could. But I am not defending the OW. And I do know there are OW out there who are just a baby farm for the money. And maybe the one in your life is like this. But I also know for a fact that sometimes men say things to OW that they never admit to their wives that they said because they are to ashamed and they love their wives and they don't want to hurt them. And knowing this doesn't make your husband a bad person or someone that you should leave! But it might make you understand just a little bit why some needy OW might believe any little thing because there are some screwed up people out there who have very low self esteem. These are just some ideas. They are things to think about only not a defense of the OW. That is not what I'm doing. Sorry for the long ramble I usually don't do this.<P>Del

Why do you presume I am a betrayed? I am not. Betrayers seem to run in my family though and all of them have gotten their comeuppance in one way or another. I don't believe in god so all that forgiveness stuff really has no meaning for me. Besides your smugness( or humbleness as you call it) it's the judgemental nature of your posts. Imagine you passing judgement on others. This really is not the forum for this discussion however so no reason to respond.

K,<P>Since this is a forum I thought about OC's and confronting OW and why they do it and all that whole mess, I guess it does bother me that you think I'm judgemental because I'm really just trying to show other sides to the problems. These problems will effect people for the rest of their lives so the choices they make now are really important. I'm sorry that you think that. I don't mean to be at all. I will go back and read my posts and try to change that. Also I'm sorry that I assumed you were betrayed or that your H had an OC. I think that people get it back when they don't change. If they keep on keeping on, they keep getting what they keep getting. That's what my grandma used to say. But if people change like it sounds like alot of the H's here change, then their own actions won't keep hurting them. Well that's just my thought and I don't mean to say it's the way it is! Very sorry I offended you. I don't even usually talk to much about my christain faith.<P>Del

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Delphi:<BR><B>K,<P>Since this is a forum I thought about OC's and confronting OW and why they do it and all that whole mess, I guess it does bother me that you think I'm judgemental because I'm really just trying to show other sides to the problems. <BR>Del</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Delphi,<BR> I simply asked a question about having the right to confront the OW. I am still working through my anger towards my husband. He hears all about the feelings he's hurt, the security I don't feel anymore, that trust that is not there totally anymore like it used to be. He hears about the anger that for the next 18 years, we are going to have to pay for his mistake. Where is OW in all this? Nowhere. Not one word does she hear, and this is the woman that kept after him and kept after him, over a year, and then jumped in in a minute when we began having troubles. I don't feel, and will never feel, that it was only his fault, or like he is more at fault than she because of our particular situation. She practically stalked him, and repeatedly threw herself at him until he gave in. She knew exactly what she was doing. It's really easy not to face up to the fact that what you did was wrong, if you never have to face the person you've wronged and hear their side of it. If she'd have killed him, I could have read a "victim impact statement" in open court. But because he is still alive, I am supposed to keep silent, and not say a thing to her? She knew he was married, she pursued him anyway. That he gave in is not the point. The point is that if she hadn't made herself available, this never would have happened. He was not the kind to go looking elsewhere, and would always let me know when something was bothering him, UNTIL HER. She never gave him the chance. 8 years of my life became a lie in one night, because she didn't care about anything but wanting my husband. She had this whole thing planned from start to finish, and I am supposed to keep silent. BTW, I will say it once more, I have no problems with OC. OC didn't do a thing to me. OC's mother, on the other hand, did. That is where my problem is. I am willing to accept this child into our lives for reasons I've stated in past posts, but OW I will never accept, and the two of them will never be alone together again. I want her to know, that no matter what she tries, she will never be able to hold him, because I am the one he wants, for the rest of his life, not her. She will never be me. That's what she wanted most of all. To be his wife. She thought the child would do it. Then all she'd have to do was sit on her [censored] and not ever work again. I believe if more of these wenches did get confronted, maybe they would think twice before they tried that crap again. I've had my say. You think what you want.

K,<BR>I think that the you being willing to accept OC into your life is so incredible and generous and you are a very special person for being able to do it! Now those are just my thoughts and I realize everyone else might not be at a place to do that. But I think you are special for doing it. I also agree with you that there is no place in your life for the OW and there doesn't have to be. You can define your life and marriage your way and the OC is not a threat to you. In fact I think, and I have had experience that the OC and your husbands wonder and pride at your willingness to accept will make him love you more. You see the easy thing is to run away. If you help him to that you are helping him give in to natural urges but not always good urges. Not to make a christian referal but it is easy to wash your hands of things. K, please don't think I am attacking or being judgemental but it does take two and even if your H was pursued he still said yes and did the act. That does not mean he can't be forgiven by you for that. But I know I never really could forgive myself let alone anyone else until I really accepted what I did and what they did. But let me tell you something. Try though I might I have not forgiven the man who was the father of my baby I gave away. So I also understand not forgiving because I would like to, really I would! But I can't. Maybe someday. K, you don't ever have to like or even know the OW. But there are reasons for what she did. And they have to do with her and not your H. And the truth is that she is probably a very unhappy and lonely person who doesn't like herself at all and desperatly wants to be loved by somone. And sometimes people can be so needy that the can be come preditors looking for people that need like them and maybe your H was at a needing time and he ran into this other needy person. Now K this does not make her evil. Maybe she is evil but she could also be a lot of other things. But that doesn't mean you have to know her or include her in your life. Just don't hate her until you know for sure everything. Maybe you can't forgive her but try not to hate her. I know everyone says this but hating actually hurts us more anyway. You sound like you and your H will be OK. Maybe you will come to love the OC not just for who they are but as a symbol of how strong your and your H's love is. That you can survive and forgive anything in your love. <P>Del

Thanks Del,<BR> I have broached to subject of the OC, and having the child in our lives (where I feel it should be) but he is so angry at being trapped right now. I'm afraid it would be more detrimental for the child to know that he feels so strongly against it's mother. I've just decided to let him come around to the idea on his own, without pressure from me, even though I know how precious time is with regard to kids, and how fast it goes. He's never had a child, so he doesn't know what I know, as a parent. I just think time may bring him around. I hope, for both him and the child it will. Unless of course DNA shows he's not the father. He's really angry toward her, and really frustrated by the whole situation. Of course, you and I know that the frustration is compounded by the fact that he only has himself to blame. She did pursue, but he didn't have to give in. She took advantage of our marital troubles to worm her way in. We will survive. I am starting to see more and more of the man that I first fell in love with. He's communicating with me in a way we hadn't for a long long time. He's writing me love letters! This man never writes letters. I'd find "I love you" notes on the fridge from time to time, but a real letter? This whole thing has shown us what we had, what we could have lost. We don't take each other for granted anymore. Not a day goes by that we don't let each other know how we feel. I'm starting the think that I have my best friend back, and that the trust and security will be back also.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Delphi:<BR><B> I do mostly lurk as you point out and really hardly ever post, only when something really gets me thinking.<P>Del</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>your profile shows you post a bit more than "hardly ever", about 124 since october of 99. don't know if it is true, but that is much more than lurking, unless of course you only mean posting on our board, and i don't see you much here, thank goodness.<P><BR>

yes, i am a christian, but i am not perfect and i pray to become a better person, but that doesn't mean i am gonna let the world walk over me and do nothing about it. i feel safe if my heart and soul that god and jesus understand me, and know i am doing all i can. <P>as for the OW, if i would see them be a bit sorry themselves, i would feel different. but at least in my case, she has no worries about what she has done to my family. she doesn't care, has never expressed remorse. so, i don't feel sorry about my feelings toward her. my H on the other hand has showed me he is sorry for what he has done and i love him. i of course have forgiven both of them, but she is not on my list of favorite people. i can't see her as human being when she acts like a cold hearted monster. <P>i would be interested in how many of the OW's have apologized to the families of the men they were adulterous with, and i bet you would see it affects our opinions on the OW.<P>anyone??<P>happy_girl

Good question: have ANY XOW expressed regret for the pain they've helped cause, apologized and behaved in a reasonable fashion (healthy boundaries, adult behavior) post-affair?? Ours hasn't. If she would, some things could be different.<P>My guess is women who engage in affairs in the first place are by definition screwed up in various major ways which renders them difficult to deal with re: OC, (especially ones who got pregnant deliberately)!<P>Re adoption, adult women cannot be forced to do this and I'm not suggesting they should be. I'm sorry for the pain birthmothers feel, but we can all think of situations where it is in the CHILD'S best interest (and thank you Catnip for your bravery and excellent example!), while there are many wonderful people in at LEAST as much pain because they have no children or fewer than they'd like. (having lost 1 child at birth and 3 miscarriages, myself, the OC has been a HORRIBLE blow). There are new avenues in open adoption that can ease the birthparents mind (yearly updates, for example), and I'm sorry you Delphi weren't given that option. <P>One more thing. Not all married man/biodads give up the OC without pain. I know my H and I think of the OC every day. Sometimes, like adoption, it is the lesser of many evils.

An XOW apologizing! Ha - that would be remarkable. Mine couldn't even say the words I'm sorry - or anything remotely like that if it killed her. My H keeps telling me "she hates you and you hate her". First of all - hate is a strong word - but perhaps that is probably the way I still feel about her - since she obviously won't get a life and keeps waiting around like a little puppy dog waiting on my H to leave me - but how do these stupid XOW or OW hate us? What in the world have we done to them? In my case the OW was a daycare worker taking care of my child - I trusted her with my post precious thing to me in the world and she used her love for my D to get to my H! Talk about sick!!!!! And then she hates me!$(*&#@$(&*Y$)*@*@(*@(*(& The nerve of some people - Where do they get this sanctimonious crap that they have a reason to hate us - because we were married to someone that they "decided" they wanted? Well TOO bad! Get yourself someone who is available and things like that won't happen to you. Geez - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. I understand people make mistakes - but when you make a mistake, you learn from it and pick yourself up and go on - these witches that simply lurk and lurk and just wait on a moment for a man to be weak or act like the damsel in distress and act so helpless and use their wiles to get a man away from his wife is just simply disgusting - I know it takes 2 to tango - but if we as women would stick together and have loyalty to fellow women - then these men would have no one to sleep with - now would they? Or (as I've heard some OW put it) "well, he was gonna sleep around anyway, it might as well be with me as someone else!" Hogwash - that's the kind of mindset that condones all this pain and suffering that we all are going through.<P>I'm so angry to think that these women actually hold their head up in public and act as if they deserve some respect. A respectful person (after destroying someone's family and marriage and the life of another child) would apologize to the wife sincerely, any children involved and make sure that her respect be in the form of no contact, no bleeding someone dry for money or any type of stalking, whining when they need moral support or whatever! Please (especially when the OW KNEW the men were married) what did you expect? That you were SO special that you could make him leave his wife? What fantasy land do you live in? As far as I'm concerned - these OW deserve only what the H and his Family are willing to give to them - and nothing else. I find it a travesty that Judges can sit up on their thrones and dictate what amount of $$$ to give to these women that obviously either only wanted the money to start with or simply want to make the H pay for not leaving his wife. Have a little self-respect and realize "you were used!" and go on and find someone else you can build a life with - because it is not fair to keep hurting people over and over. Geez - this whole thing just cuts me to the bone!<P>------------------<BR>

I found this site nearly 2 years ago and it has (believe it or not) helped me tremendously! I understand now why MM has no contact with our son.<P>I am the OW who had OC. No, I did not "pursue" him...we were coworkers, a friendship developed, he began telling me about his problems, one thing lead to another. I was selfish and never thought about his wife, how she was innocent, and how much this would hurt her. Nor did I deliberately set out to get pregnant merely so I could have a check every month. I work full time and returned to work 3 weeks after the birth of our son. MM and I both lost our jobs when I announced my pregnancy and I was unemployed for 6 months. Talk about stress during a pregnancy!!! <P>happy_girl:<BR>For many, many, many months I cried about the pain I caused his W, him (for having to give up his son), our son (his bio-father has nothing to do with him) and I cried because I felt like a terrible, horrible person who used terrible judgment and who was not even worthy of God's forgiveness. I would NEVER want to hurt anyone. I was in a "fog" and MANY lives were affected because of MM/my decisions. I prayed, I went to church, I asked for God's forgiveness...but I had a problem forgiving myself. I can not tell you how awful I felt. Nearly 3 years later I have a sense of peace..the guilt will always be there but I now have a sense of peace. For many, many months I wanted to call/write/see W so I could tell her how sorry I was...but I didn't think she would believe me or know if she would even read it with so many emotions flying (I filed a lawsuit against my former employer in which she was required to testify and the paternity establishment/child support proceedings). Finally, all that stuff has settled and I felt it was appropriate for me to send the letter. I have been able to forgive myself since sending that letter. I knew that God had forgiven me but you also must repent. My final step in repenting was sending his W that letter....I knew in my heart that it was sincere and I am truly sorry (for all of us).<P>We are all human, we all make bad choices, with different ramnifications. Perhaps my experience (the affair) was God's way of drawing me to Him because before the affair, I never really had any spiritual being. we all reap the consequences of our actions. God will not punish us...he wants us to be happy, not full of anger, bitterness, hatred...but we do reap the consequences of our actions.<P>catnip:<BR>To give up a child has got to be the hardest thing that anyone could ever do! Months ago, when you first told the board, I cried when I read your post. I thought to myself "Now, that is a woman who *really* loved her child....enough to allow him the opportunity to be raised in a two parent household" I had thoughts go through my mind as to whether or not I should have given our son up for adoption. Was it fair for me to keep him? I can't answer that. I know that had I given him up, I would have wanted to die. I have no opinion on the adoption option.....it's a very personal decision in which many, many factors must be considered.<P>MM paid me a "lump sum" of child support so I do not receive monthly checks from him. When we were having discussions about his child support obligation, he said that it would kill him to write a check every month.....to think about the son that he has no contact with. If I was in it "for the money" I would have taken the monthly check and had it reviewed annually, with every job change. I settled for a much less amount than I would have received over 18 years. Why did I agree to it? Because I felt it was best for all involved....MM (and yes, he does have a heart) would have the constant reminder, I didn't want the constant threat of MM "waltzing" into our son's life at the drop of a hat (either he was going to be a part of our son's life, or he wasn't...don't show up at age 5 and say "Hi, I'm your Daddy". I do not contact them for any reason whatsoever. We both have separate lives.<P>I have since met a wonderful man who is great to me and Son (and he is NOT married..YEAH). We have had many, many talks and he knows that Son basically becomes OURS. This man will love Son as if he were his own. He is absolutely wonderful with Son.<P>I believe we can all find peace in our lives and happiness but the scares of our life experiences remain. I look at our Son every day and I see MM. <P>

Dear Delphi:<BR>I think your postings will be nicely accepted in another discussion group where OW talks about their lives, maybe somebody can help you understand why you would do such a thing twice. <BR>Yes you were 15 but I have a couple of questions...<BR>1.) Where were your parents when you were 15? Obviously not taking care of you!<BR>2.) At 15 you should be old enough to make your own decisions and to know the repercussion of unprotected sex, plus at that age you are capable of knowing what is right and wrong, infact if this was not your first baby,that makes me ask the question twice: Protected Sex? It is obvious that you wanted to get pregnant with this man's baby, twice?.<BR>3.) I can't believe you say that the man took advantage of you, YOU KNEW HE WAS MARRIED, what did you think...he was going to leave his wife for you? <BR>

just me, i applaud you for sending a letter. it is rare though i think that that happens. i would be much more accepting of the situation if i thought for a second that the OW in our situation was sorry. but she isn't. she is all me, me, me. no call, no letter. she wanted a baby, wanted my H and went after it. she got the baby, but she can't have my H. i would probably have a heart attack if she tried to say sorry. it would throw me a loop that is for sure. but, i know it won't happen. i know that the OW suffer and when they are like you, i can understand them. but when they have no remorse and keep adding fuel to the fire, i just have no feelings of sorry for them.<P>glad you found a good man. and good luck with your marriage and your son.<P>happy_girl

Kt,<BR>The way I see it you have the chance to lead your H to a better way to be and he will love you so much for it. Listen if you really want to get back at the OW, can you just imagine her having to hand her child over to you, his loving stepmother, and father for visiting? Can you imagine how that would drive her crazy? Why not look at it like that? Also if you establish a relationship with the OC and come to love it you might even go for joint custody and then reduce your payment? See I think there are good possibilities and I think you are looking for them.<P>Jenny,<BR>I gave up a baby for adoption too. And yes I did apologize both in person and in writing to the W for my affair.<P>Fambis,<BR>The baby I had at fifteen was my first child. To this day my family does not know who the father is because I told them I was raped. This is because the father is a relative that a sexual relationship began with when I was 12. This does not make my parents bad parents. These things happen in good families too you know! It makes this man a bad person, a very bad person. He has since been in a auto accident that left him in a wheelchair. I moved far away from my family and don't go to anything where he will be. <P>Del

Dear Delphi:<BR>I am so sorry to hear about the man being a relative... If that is the case you being 12 honey I don't think you were the OW you were a molested child, and you should have told your parents because I am sure you were not the only one who was molested. I hope that if somebody tries to touch my D she can feel comfortable enough to come and talk to me, that type of child abuse should never be tolerated.<BR>Molestation and Affairs are ver very different. You could have sent this man to jail and you still can. <BR>fambis

Fambis,<P>No Fambis, I wish I could say that I was never an OW but I was later in my life. This was really something I never thought would happen to me. Like alot of these relationships it started as a close work friendship that became more and more dependent and finally we were intimate five times. We were both overcome with guilt and ended it and he confessed to his wife. She already had suspicions but didn't know who. She is the one I apologized to in person and in writing. It is very hard to face that you have hurt someone so much when you have been a person who has been hurt alot. It made me like myself even less in fact I hated myself. I broke off contact and we did not have contact for a year and a half. During that time I was in counseling really for the first time. I learned alot about why I did end up in a affair because I was so needy. By the way I was divorced from an abusive first marriage. After this year and a half the married man contacted me because his divorce was almost final. He and his wife had gone through intense counseling including even going away for a weekend counseling but the problems were to great. He had been separated for six months the second time he contacted me. I won't go into their problems here because they really don't have anything to do with anything here. I had moved and changed jobs. He had tried one time to contact me after six months but I communicated through a friend that I was moving on and wanted no contact with a married man. So to make a long story short we did end up marrying but only after going through couples counseling. This was just a few months ago that we finally married. I really feel that he and I know now who we are and what we need. I think it is easy to say that all OW are just screwed up people and I think that is true. I think cheaters are screwed up people whether they are the OW or the married man or whatever. I guess my point is that there are sometimes reasons why a person is screwed up that aren't just that the person is evil. I don't think I'm evil but yes I was a screwed up person with very low self esteem. Someone said I post alot but those posts are mostly on the general questions board when sometimes people ask for the advice of a OW. I have responded to those. Anyway I think regarding OC you would really do alot more to get back at the OW if you took the child away from her by visiting with the child and maybe even getting custody. It's just something to think about. Think how she's going to feel when you are the one to pick up the OC and she never even gets to lay eyes on your H! Having been such a screwed up person myself I read about these OC's being raised by screwed up people and I think, OK the cycle will just continue. This OC will grow up and hurt someone else because they are so damaged themselves. I guess this is the part that I relate so strongly to here. But as so many others here point out I'm not dealing with this problem so I can't say that this is something for someone to do, I can only say that it is my idea that it might work.<P>The relative who I had the relationship with is in a wheelchair and that whole thing is better off left alone. It is behind me. <P>Del

Dear Delphi:<BR>Well I must say that it takes a lot of courage to tell us about this, but believe it or not I understand what you are saying. In fact I did think about the whole custody but that would be just lowering myself to the same level. I would not be taking care of a OC just to piss or hurt somebody. The truth is Delphi that it deos not matter how much somebody hurts me, I am not in a war, in my opinion the OW is in her own battle with herself. See we the W, all we want is to be left alone, very simple. We cannot try to take back the affair, but it does take alot of you and in order to try to save your marriage, your self-esteem, your family, your life,an so on. I just do not understand why these OW try to continue to punish and to try to "get back", get back at what? we are an innocent party. Why? <P>These OW need to MOVE ON, leave us alone, leave our H and family alone. And if in fact (at least in my case) she chose to have a Child without informing "us" about it then it should be 100% of her responsability. See she CHOSE not to have safe sex, SHE CHOSE not to be careful, SHE CHOSE to keep the baby, and SHE CHOSE not tell us when we confronted her. SHE SAID NO I AM NOT PREGNANT. 12 Months later we received the court papers. I was told by a friend that she had it all planned, that she was going to "teach us a lesson", that he could not just leave her, and that this way she was going to break our marriage, maybe not then but when he sued him. That is evil, she brought a Child to this world for the wrong reasons. Do you want to know what the sad part is Delphi, I am her worst enemy, yet I have never met her in person. She new that I was 8 months pregnant when she met my H, and played the "drinking buddy", then she got herself pregnant in less than 1 month, and then she expected my H to leave 6 years of a "true" friendship for her : an alcoholic. She hated the fact that my H went to AA, Counseling, quit his job, moved for me out of state, and did EVERYTHING to save his marriage. He knows he made the biggest mistake of his life, but he was never dishonest with her, never promised her anything, in fact he tried to break it off and that is when she started harrasing him, following him, made sure I found out ( although I was in the Hospital with a mastitis infection- with a 2 week newborn), this is the type of OW we talk about. Believe me they are mean and evil.<BR>All they want is what they can have, now I bet you that she is doing it again to somebody else, I have no doubt in my mind, and in the mean time she gets a pretty good check every month, I just hope she uses it for the child which I doubt!<BR>

Well Fambis I have gotten quite into this thread and if you ever look at some of my other threads this is something I never do! In your case the OW has not even given you the choice of involvement but instead has just tried to get money from you. I guess my point in all this is for those who can be involved with the OC to think of what they are doing for the future, and I know this would be so hard in your case. You see I understand how a hurt person goes on to hurt others even if they are not a bad person. And to leave the OC in the hands of a messed up person, as in the OW pretty much means that the OC has a good chance of growing up to be a hurt person. And I don't think the OC is a threat to your marriage, maybe the OW but not the OC. But again I have not been there so I can't say. But if you take what I think is the road of loving and reaching out to the OC then you can lead your husband. Think 10 years down the road when maybe he has a loving relationship with this child which at first maybe he resisted out of shame and out of not wanting to hurt you, think of the love and gratitude he will feel for you. And you will have maybe kept the OC from growing up to be a person who hurts others like I was. That is my point in all this. I don't stick up for the OW at all but for some reason, well the reason is that I understand what it's like to be very hurt as a child, my heart does go out to the OC and I can see that the women here have so much to offer them.<P>I want to tell you all something good that has come out of this thread for me. It has really helped me in my grief over my daugther who I gave up over 25 years ago. I see that I was so damaged that I would have damaged her. But I'm not damaged now and oh how I wish she would find me! Well, anyway if you do have the chance to be in the OC's life, don't see the OC as a threat or half the OW. See it if you can, as a person who you can maybe make a difference for and who then might not hurt someone else in the future. That's my message.<P>Del