Does anyone know how to go about establishing<BR>paternity if the ow is avoiding contact?<BR>She told me she knows exactly who the <BR>father is - my H. But she only wants money,<BR>since she is married and raising her family<BR>as if this isn't real. Even tho I cant imagine our life w/ this oc in it, I dont <BR>know how to go on like this either. When I <BR>said why are you doing this, dont you realize<BR>how this effects our families, she said she<BR>just wants my H to take responsibility.<BR>My H has lost 20 lbs over this and we are<BR>struggling to keep it together. Where is her<BR>personal responsibility? I cant wait around<BR>for years worrying if she is going to come<BR>looking for us again when her H finally leaves her. I feel sorry for her children,<BR>but I have to put mine first. Any more advice<BR>would greatly be appreciated, thanks.

fluke,<P>No offense but that is bs, she has no right to demand money and nothing else. Usually a man can go to the state dept just like the women and want to know the paternity. I woud think if he goes forward, and she doesn't there could be some way to settle it. I don't blame you for not wanting to have your life in limbo. But too bad, her life is going to be disturbed. Don't give her a red cent until you have DNA proof, and go through a lawyer in dealing with her. Some of these women are out of their minds, asking for money, and making demands. Get a lawyer! I wish you all the luck and I will be praying for you.<P>babstr.<BR>

I ditto Babstr, fluke. Get legal advice on whether you can force paternity(DNA)/ch-support. The problem of waiting for her to do it is some states require BACK ch-support if she gets around to it later. If yours is NOT one of those states, you could sit on it and save some $ maybe...<P>So sorry you're in this boat.<BR>J

DO NOT GIVE ANY MONEY UNTIL PATERNITY IS ESTABLISHED!!!!! Giving money could be interpreted by the court as you acknowleding paternity. But, if you feel you must (ie: to make a case for not being "responsible,ect.) give $ , make sure it is in the form of a money order, or check. DO NOT GIVE CASH!!!!!!! Your case sounds like extortion to me. Please be careful.....<P><BR>

I am a paralegal in NH and although a lawyer is preferred you do not have to have one. You just go to the Superior Court in your jurisdiction and ask how to file a Petition to Determine Paternity. You will have to pay a filing fee. In our state it is $125.00.<P>They will serve papers on the OW and they a hearing will be set. In the petition your H needs to ask for a paternity test to be done. The judge will rule on this.<P>I hope this helps.

I spoke w/ lawyer and they said not to do<BR>anything because in our state presumption<BR>of paternity rules since she is married <BR>and they have raised this child for a year<BR>already. Also alledged father has no rights<BR>to demand testing even tho mother does.<BR>My H hasnt given anything to her because<BR>he doesnt believe the oc is his - and I pray<BR>it isnt. He said only after test will he pay<BR>She has backpeddled since I confronted her<BR>w/ consent (test) forms, she says its not <BR>worth it. So tell me how do you go on when<BR>this is in your life and they live so close?<BR>It breaks my heart to think my kids could <BR>be related to hers! I guess I'll call another<BR>lawyer for second opinion. Thank you all<BR>for your insight!!! I appreciate it...

Thank you all for your insight, it is<BR>appreciated! Just got off the phone w/<BR>lawyer, they said to do nothing. In our<BR>state presump. of paternity rules since<BR>she was and is married and they have<BR>been raising this child as theirs for over<BR>a year. Also alleged father has no right <BR>to demand test even tho mother does.<BR>My H hasnt given her anything because he<BR>believes the child isnt his - and I pray.<BR>He said only after positive test will he<BR>pay. She doesnt want to hear from me since<BR>I confronted her w/ consent (test) papers,<BR>she said its not worth it. So tell me how<BR>do you go on when this is in your life, and<BR>they live so close to us. It breaks my heart<BR>to think my beautiful children could be<BR>related to hers. Shes such a mean person.<BR>I guess I'll call another lawyer for second<BR>opinion. Thanks again for your help and<BR>kind support.

sory I posted twice, Im new to this.<BR>Couldnt figure how to delete.

fluke,<P>All 50 states have the assumed paternity laws on the books. The elapsed time until the woman's husband goes permanently on the paternity "hook" depends on the state - Massachusetts, for example, allows a husband to litigate (i.e., deny) paternity up to age 2. After that, the husband is automatically the father of the child. You would have to ask a lawyer what that age cutoff is in your state. <P>As a practical matter, does the man have other children with his wife? If he does, he'd get nailed pretty hard for child support if he divorced his cheating wife. The first child is the expensive one from a child support standpoint, so the child support premium he'd pay in child support for your H's child is actually fairly small.<P>What the other family is weighing is this: If they sue your H for paternity, then he WILL get visitation and they WILL have to deal with pickups and dropoffs of the OC. This is really inadvisable to rebuild a marriage, and given that the child support "premium" is pretty small if other children are present, suing an OM for paternity is pretty irrational behavior.<P>So IMO you should sit tight. Follow the other's advice, though. Under NO circumstances should you give them any money until DNA evidence conclusively establishes your H's paternity. If you give them money, it could be perceived as acknowledging paternity, and worse, if your H hasn't been seeing the child, he could lose a default order of visitation on his behalf. Its ruthless to put it this way, *but the threat of your H getting visitation is your biggest card in this game*. Don't squander it by sending money without a DNA test establishing paternity!<P>Now, from an interpersonal standpoint, I wouldn't get in the OW's face about any of this. If the OC really is your H's, you don't want her to litigate this just to rub it in your face. Just tell her that without a DNA test conclusively establishing paternity, and a court ordered CS amount, no money will be changing hands. Let her stew on the thought of handing the OC over for visitation. Dollars to donuts, she'll back off.<P>Bystander<p>[This message has been edited by Bystander (edited August 17, 2000).]

Bystander,<BR>Thanks for your info. Yes, ow does have<BR>children already with her H. <BR>We dont want to send her anything because<BR>there is serious doubt on my H part that<BR>this child is his - we think there is a<BR>2 wk discrepency. Also, I dont care about<BR>what she should do for her family. She is<BR>the one who went after my H until he screwed<BR>up, he never went looking for her. <BR>She actually thought he would hand over$$$<BR>with no questions asked. And when WE followed<BR>through w/ test papers she said forget it.<BR>Excuse me for my attitude but this woman<BR>has no ones best interest in mind, not even<BR>her own children. She's the piece of sh-t<BR>here, not us. Thanks for your advice. This<BR>just brings up some pretty raw emotions.

Its me again. I just want to clarify to<BR>anyone reading that I dont just blame<BR>the ow for my H's mistake. I realize it<BR>goes both ways. He could have said get lost.<BR>But he didnt and that hurts. As a matter of<BR>fact, he bought my engagement ring just<BR>days after his mistake. So I feel that even<BR>tho he's made me so happy in so many ways-<BR>there's no way to prepare yourself for this.<BR>I never even thought about this happening<BR>to anyone. I've made my share of mistakes<BR>and have taken personal responsibility for<BR>them and asked for God's forgivness. As my<BR>H has also. Now I just want to do what is<BR>right - morally. How do you do that?<BR>I want to set the right example for my <BR>children. I want to confront this head - on.<BR>I dont want to go thru life w/ this on our<BR>heads. I want my kids to know that we are<BR>human, we make mistakes, and that we need<BR>to overcome them and become better because <BR>of them. The lawyer says do nothing but my<BR>heart tells me something else. H just wants<BR>to do what is right for our marriage.<BR>thanks again for allowing me to write about<BR>all this crap. I am sorry everyone here has<BR>to go thru this and worse. You are all in<BR>my prayers.

Fluke,<BR>Please don't apologize for your feelings -- we have all been there. In the beginning there is so much hurt, anger, disappointment, disillusionment. This is an experience that brings all of the raw emotions a human being can experience to the surface.<P>It not only makes you doubt your H, and yourself, but you feel that your whole life together has been a lie. These feelings last for awhile. And, you will fluctuate from loving your H dearly to wanting his head on a platter for what he is putting you through.<P>But things do settle down once you find your sea legs and, if you are both willing to do the work, you can make the relationship work again. Don't get me wrong, there will always be some days when there is a lot going on and you are just fed up with the whole situation. But the good days will far outweigh those "I give up" days.<P>Although I am a new member of this group, the wonderful thing that I have found here is that I never have to say "I'm sorry" for thoughts that may sound really wicked to a person not in this situation.<P>And maybe none of us have the perfect answers -- there really aren't any -- but we are all helping each other find the way. <P>So, be strong, and stand firm. No money until the OW agrees to your basic conditions. When she sees that you and your H are working as a team and she has failed to drive a wedge between you with this news -- maybe she will give it up. I hope so, as much as I hope the OC is not your H's.<P>Good luck. I am praying for us all.<BR>- Heavenly<P>

fluke,<P>Your attorney sounds like he/she is on target. Has the OW provided a copy of the birth certificate naming your husband as the father? If he is named, that very likely means that the OW's H authorized it to be. In that case, it is difficult to understand why she has not filed for support through the court system. It's not a difficult process. If your H were served with support papers, he could protest or object until the OW proved paternity. Obviously, the DNA test would be a requirement. If positive, your H would likely be on the hook for the support based on the child being the first for your H and the OW.<P>If the OW's H is the father on the birth certificate and the family has been together the entire time from birth onward, her H would have a tremendously difficult time rebutting the presumption of his paternity. Like the saying goes in these cases: "When in doubt, move out!" He obviously didn't, so I'm really wondering about what the birth records show.<P>If the birth records have not been seen, call the state's dept that handles them. If your H is listed as the father, he has a legal right to request this information. If he's not listed, the dept will tell him that he is not authorized.<P>That's where I would recommend starting.

Heavenly,<BR>Thanks for your insight. That's exactly how<BR>I feel - disillisioned. I feel like my marriage was over before it even had a chance. My H vows to make me as happy as I<BR>make him, but lately that's a tall order.<BR>It didn't have to be this way, life is hard<BR>enough already. I know I'm wasting too much <BR>time wishing things were different. I hope<BR>that soon I can move on - but how do you when<BR>you still dont know the truth (+ or -)!<BR>I cant tell you how much it helps knowing<BR>there are wonderful people like yourself and<BR>everyone else here. Hope your day is going<BR>well , I send my best wishes for your family.<P>WJC, and thank you for your legal advice!<BR>Her H name is on B Cert. They've been together the whole time, I guess. She said he<BR>knows the truth but I find that hard to believe. She said he took DNa test earlier<BR>this yr and was -. Now she wants $ because my<BR>H made the poor choice of f---ing a whore.<BR>So yes the law is in our favor because she's<BR>married but they live 5 min from us and I<BR>dont want to be in the same state as her.<BR>I have my own kids to worry about and now if<BR>that child is part of my H , I worry about<BR>all of that. Is there a way to find out oc<BR>bday? She only told me the month. <BR>I cant ask around. Its important to know since there was only one time and I've figured out that day which happens to be this<BR>week. Ive been obessing on it and its driving<BR>me nuts. Im so mad at my H for allowing this<BR>piece of trash in our lives. I drove past her<BR>house which is a rundown trailer w/out curtains. It just makes my skin crawl.<P>Thanks for everyone's positive support. <BR>I believe in the power of prayer. And I've<BR>included all who have this pain in their lives in my prayers. <BR> <BR>

Boy do I know how you feel, I feel like I am just stuck. We are suppose to be working on our marriage goals for our next counseling and I can't. I keep telling my husband I am scared to think about the future. I need to know what is going on with the twit. My last e-mail to her has not been answered, that was four weeks ago. She probably does not have the answers and/or is scared. We do not know what to believe. I feel so good about the progress we have made and how my H is trying so hard to help me heal and prove his love for me and our girls, we are closer than ever. But, I just can't go any further until I know what she is going to do and if it is my H's.

fluke,<P>I really don't think you have anything to worry about on the support issue. The OW and her husband basically blew their chance to have your husband pay. They continue to live together and they have him on the birth certificate. If they had been separated at the birth of the child, there would have been a better chance for them on the support. She definitely won't get anywhere without a positive DNA test with your H. I think she knows that he just might not be the father, given her hesitance to have a test done. It wouldn't be a surprise if she had been sexually active with someone else at that time.<P>Is there any opportunity for you and your family to move farther away?

Carriemom,<BR>I know its an awful place to be, not knowing.<BR>Words just dont express the anguish that you<BR>feel. Im sorry that you are going thru it,<BR>too.I pray that things will work out for us. I wish I had more positive insight...<BR>I saw a sign yesterday that read "The best way to get even is to forgive".At least we<BR>have this place to come to. Take care.<P>WJC, thanks for your thoughts. Its a relief, but the nagging questions are getting to me.<BR>Just wondering what she has told or will tell<BR>other people...and the chance that oc is H.<BR>We own a beautiful house on 5 ac and just built a barn/garage. My H is self employed<BR>and a hard worker. Im a stay at home mom of<BR>3 kids under age 5. They live in rented <BR>trailer, so I hope that they'll move first.<BR>If not then I suppose we'll stay for a couple years and keep our eyes open. My H <BR>knows how I feel, I express myself very well<BR>about all of this. If we were RICH I'd pack<BR>my family up tonight. But reality is we are<BR>staying here for the time being. <BR>I was wondering if you could give me some<BR>insight on how men can be in love with one <BR>person and have sex w/ another (no love <BR>attached to it)? I know my H regrets it but<BR>if I never had to find out, he'd have gotten<BR>off scott free. I feel that she was counting<BR>on my H to give $ instead of confessing to<BR>me. He's torn up about it now but he kept it<BR>from me for almost 2 yrs. Funny thing is I <BR>know he's happy with our family, with what we<BR>have now and that he doesnt want to lose it.<BR>But the cost for knowing that can be too damn<BR>high. Thanks again for replying. Good night

fluke,<P>I can see why it would be difficult to move right now. You have some time and money invested in your home. Importantly, though, your H sounds like he is genuinely interested in keeping the family he has, and it doesn't matter that the OW is not too far away. <P>You asked about how a guy can have sex with another woman yet be in love with someone else. It is not difficult for a man to have sex with another woman he does not love, because the physical pleasure is not dependent upon an emotional bond. I am sure you know that a man can be "turned on" just by seeing another woman. It's not difficult, aside from any feelings of guilt that he might have, to "go all the way," especially if another woman offers. <P>However, despite the relative ease of enjoying the physical aspects of sex with another woman, there is not the same deep emotional bond that is experienced when the man has sex with the woman he loves. In the former case, he tends to take pleasure; in the latter, he gives it because he loves her. Simply put, it's the difference between just having sex and making love.<P>I probably have gone on more than what you really were asking for, but it is something that I have experienced personally and can be totally honest about.<P>I hope it helps, but more importantly I hope everything works out for you and your family. It looks very positive.<P>WJC<p>[This message has been edited by WJC (edited August 23, 2000).]

WJC<BR>Thanks for following up and for your<BR>candid answers. I appreciate the third<BR>person point of view. Truthfully it has<BR>helped me understand my H better. I know <BR>he is a good person, sometimes I get so<BR>consumed w/ these problems that I forget<BR>how much he Has done for me.Thanks for<BR>reminding me that he is human. I guess we<BR>all have lessons to learn from this.<BR>Your positive input has been a blessing.<BR>Its amazing how people you never meet can<BR>influence the way you look at things.<BR>Thank you for your vote of confidence for<BR>my family. All my best to you too!<BR>Hope you will be around if I have any more<BR>questions...

I'm just reading you all's replies and I'm gettin sick all over again. I am goin through the same thing and I don't have the foggest idea what to do. The other child is just 2 weeks old!!!! I've been told so many lies by my H before that I'm don't know what to think. I too am goin over and over in my head what the future holds. Why did he have to go and do this? And especially with one of his parents from school? The ow told his mom that she wasn't going to file for child support because of the scandal that it is. But it doesn't take away that she, the little girl is still here, and being a christian that tears me up inside because my spirit is totally against what I FEEL! I wish she had never been born!!! She represents tooooo much pain and heartache and just to start thinkin about child support and they might start takin money out my check because he's stopped working to finish his degree.. .. .. . .. I REFUSE to PAY FOR A CHILD THAT HAS TORN APART MY LIFE!!!!!!!!<P>What can we do? This hurts too much.