Ladies (& betrayed men as well) of the site:<BR>If by me coming here in the first place has made you feel unsafe, I will VOLUNTARILY leave and maybe (hopefully) some of the other OW's will follow suit? I in no way wanted this to happen to you guys. I came here in hope of offering some insight into the mind of the OW and to hopefully show you guys than not ALL OW are nasty creatures from hell. Apparently I was wrong. I also came here as a way of healing myself. Personally, I don't want to leave. I have grown very fond of you guys and I care about each and every one of you. I can feel the hurt and pain you are going through and it kills me. But, if by me being here is giving the other OW a reason for staying, I will jump ship. I didn't want this to happen. I am sorry.....<BR>But, please don't any of the betrayed members leave. This is YOUR haven, YOUR safe place. YOUR healing spot. Don't be driven away....<BR>Take care.....<BR>

Duranie,<P>I cannot speak for the "ladies" here, but I will tell you that no one owns this forum or this site. You came here for help. You came here with an open mind and a wounded heart. You came asking advice and you have been most courteous to everyone here.<P>You and anyone with your attitude, is not only welcome on this site, but is needed on this site. If for some reason you feel that this particular forum is getting too angry for you. Please move over to the general questions section.<P>I recall that this particular forum was set up to deal with the issue of children born to another person not the spouse. Just as in the rest of the infidelity forum, often the most useful comments come from people on the other side of the issue, I know that you bring a perspective that is needed here.<P>I am of the opinion that if posters here need nothing but positive reenforcement, they should stick with their counselors or clergymen. I don't think that there is any call for rudeness, name calling, or other contensious behavior. However, an honest disagreement of opinions should be acceptable and is most important.<P>What some of these ladies don't seem to grasp, is they are getting an opportunity to better understand what happened. How their spouses got into this mess and what they are dealing with. This opportunity is rarely available in real life because the people directly involved carry too much pain.<P>Duranie, you are an assest here. If certain people don't recognize that then they cannot and will not learn much. THey will just pat each other on the hand, and mutter "there, there".<P>Heck, Duranie, they are even starting to let men post here. I mean, talk about messing up the coffee klatch. But have you noticed that only a few respond to the men. Why? Is it because they don't want to admit that often if there is an OW with an OC, there is an H with a pregnant W?<P>So Duranie, it seems to me you have been a great addition. Stay here or move over to the general questions section. I hate to see people run out of a place because they are seeking help with the other side of the same problem.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Duranie:<P>I and echoing what JL said. Don't leave. Myself being a BS, I have had to learn to deal with the hand that I was dealt. I feel that you do bring insight. I wish that the OW my H had the A with would post to this sight. My OW (and I use that loosely) knew my H was married, knew everything and still she had not one but two supposely from my H. <P>You are an asset to this sight and anyone else that want to have their say. Just like in our lives, some of us have had people come in and have different opinons. And by right it is good for people to voice what they think and not sugar-coat things. <BR>I have been offended by some things I read on the board, but I got over it because I know that what that persons wrote needed to be saied by them, so that they can heal.<P>>>To err is human, to forgive is divine>>><P>ITS

Dear Duranie,<P>I believe you know the wonderful ladies here think you are a wonderful person - one even said that she sometimes wished you were her WS's OW with OC. I trust you know where you stand and the ladies have often assured you that they value your perspectives. I know that your great sense of decency has often made you start threads to reassure others that you are not imposing and you know the answers that you get all the time .<P><BR>Dear JL,<P>I believe that this forum was originally set up to allow pregnant wives dealing with unfaithful spouses and wives/husbands dealing with child born out of an affair to discuss and learn from each other. It is an open forum and anyone with suggestions and even differing perspectives have been treated with the utmost respect from these ladies. I do not have an OC but am most welcome to post here; nobody ever told me to mind my own business or that my pain is different from theirs.<P>The OWs with OC have also been taken seriously until words such as 'psycho wife' and 'f**k Up' show up, etc. If I want to learn from such OW, it would serve me better to go to TOW board and feel the full brunt of their anger at the wives of their MM. Anyhow, the TOW board has a warning that all posters must be 'polite' or something. They explicitly protect OWs there.<P>I believe that the ladies on this board are mature enough to recognise that Duranie and OW with real needs can help them in their healing process. <P>God Bless Both of You<BR>weep

Dear Weep,<P>I agree with you completely. I guess my recommendation is rather than leave, or get into arguements with them, these ladies should do what is done on other forums here. Simply don't read their posts and definitely don't respond to them.<P>Then, the offending posters has no influence over the offended person and often will leave do to a lack of a good fight. You know what they say; "If you argue with an idiot, you sound like one."<P>Seriously, it seems sort of strange that several of the posters here are leaving because they don't like a given persons posts. When they can continue to interact with the people they like to talk with and simply ignore the ones they don't. <P>It really is a two way street. People are free to say what they think, and everyone else is free to ignore them. No interaction is required.<P>Just MIHO.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Duranie...Please do not leave.<P>Just Learning..I just want to say personally I do not post so much to the men bc I am not in there situaton. Mostly what I would say is you are in my prayers and I just thought saying that on all of your posts might get old to you. I will do it though. And all of the men are in my prayers. You are true gentlemen and I greatly admire you.<P>I can not imagine watching someelses child grow through pregnancy and be delivered. I know though that you have hearts of gold to accept oc as yours.<P>"Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.<BR>Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.<BR>Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"<BR>Matthew 5<P>God Bless...

Dear Duranie,<P>I have already written my feelings about you so I hope you will not consider leaving this board where you have become one of us and have given us the insight that you were seeking to give. We have come to see OWs in a different light because of you.<P>Just Learning<P>You are right that sometimes men who write don't get a response. And please don't be offended if we sometimes refer to "ladies" - it is not intended to exclude the men or marginalize you in any way. Like Broken wings has said, sometimes I feel that my opinion will not be very helpful to you.<P>Since men and women think so differently, I feel that you must be going through emotions that are quite different from those I experience as a betrayed wife. The betrayal is definitely the same, but most of the wives do not have to live 24/7 with a pregnant woman knowing the life inside of her was created by an OM. That kind of pain must be indescribable.<P>My prayers are with us all and if you think that the "ladies" here can help you, by all means, ask questions and we will answer. Perhaps we can tell you how women think in a general way and that will help.<P>God bless.<P>- Heavenly

Duranie...<P>Don't go!! I'll stay if you do. You have every right to be here...you've earned it, along with my respect and the respect of others on here. <P>------------------<BR>Remember the sunshine when the storm seems unending...

Broken_wings and Heavenlybody26,<P>I thank you for your kind response. I should clear something up. As Catnip and other "old timers" know, I am not in your situation, nor am I in your H's. <P>I usually only post here, if I see someone new that may need some idea where to find things or to direct them to posts that may be of interest.<P>Heavenlybody26, I would like to suggest to you that men and women don't think that differently. However, men and women often respond to the same situation differently, training and hormones. But both hurt very much from betrayal as you all well know. The one area that is different, I am sure, is pregnancy. This is one area where there is a large divergence for very obvious reasons.<P>However, that being said many of the men here would benefit from your insight and experience. <P>I will say that to some extent I don't agree with Catnip on the issue of this board, although I understand where she is coming from and it isn't my place to set any policy. I have seen in the over 1 1/2 years reading/posting on this board, that OW/OM/OP have often be the most helpful to the betrayed spouse, because they can give them a perspective that is so different from their experience. <P>Now, having said that, having an OW here with an attitude is of no use, but someone like Duranie can be invaluable. So it is very hard to know how much bad one needs to take with the good, in order to heal and learn the most.<P>I'll leave it for you all to judge that.<P><BR>God Bless,<P>JL

jl:<P>You're right. No one here should dictate policy. I have no right to tell OP's they cannot come here simply because of their POV. <P>The thing I object to is for OP's to use this site for whining and complaining how life is so unfair because of their decision to keep a child they knew would not have a father, those who knowingly had sex with a MM and who didn't care and did it anyway. These people are preditors to me and I don't want their crashing the site to hamper the recovery of the wounded betrayed who are seeking solace and guidance through their nightmare.<P>But it is true this is an open forum and anyone can post. I suppose the best way to handle this is for the people on the receiving end of the betrayal to either ignore the poster or to post a rebuttal.<P>Catnip =^^=

Catnip,<P>I agree with you. If you make decisions you had better be willing to live with the consequences. People coming here and complaining because life isn't pleasant after consciously going against what they and everyone else knows isn't right, is pretty frustrating.<P>Actually, it is more common here than people realize. There have been many posters in the various forums that come for advice, ask for advice, and then argue with the people they asked. My comment if you knew so much how did you get into this mess?<P>Reading here can be very frustrating, and I am not in the middle of most of it myself. I realize that someone such as yourself who is dealing with this mess and the screwy court system can want to come through the screen and gently massage someones neck. <P>But it seems to me ignoring them is the way to go. There are a fair number of posters that I know nothing I would or could say would make any difference, so why waste the finger motion?<P>I have also seen people come here with an "attitude" and after some rather strong interactions with the members of this forum, become changed. Some have become some of the most interesting and helpful posters on the various forums.<P>So I am of the, you never know until you give them a chance, philosophy. If they prove to be jerks, ignore them. That is my approach.<P>You have been at MB for a long time, and I am sure you have seen the same thing. It is just hard not to take things personally, although these people don't know anyone here, and are unaware of the "history" of many of the posters. I have it easier than most, in that my situation was very minor compared to some many of the forums here. I guess that lets me back off somewhat.<P>In any case, I really do agree with much of what you say. I should also add, that I know that once you start posting to someone, they are in good hands. You are a true asset to the MB site.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Wow, JL, thanks...coming from a respected member of the forum, this means a lot to me.<P>Could I suggest a substitute finger motion in lieu of typing our hearts out to the disgruntled? No, never mind...just kidding. Sort of.<P>Catnip =^^=