<BR>It's been since Thanksgiving weekend since I have spoken to my H. He is still living with OW, OC and OW other child from another marriage she broke up...H came to see our children on Friday, but brought OW 6 year old daughter (not theirs-theirs is only 6 months old)..I am confused?! Why is he paying so much attention to this child which isnt his and paying so little attention to ours? I keep going back and forth in my mind about reconciling, not reconciling, thinking how empty i feel when I am with out him, but thinking how empty and inadequate i would feel with him..he says he doesnt love me anymore, and hasnt for a long time...i have tried all of dr h's principals; plan a & b...I think he is too far gone...I am so lonely and sad..I thought I was over this...the crying and the loneliness..the heartache...everytime i hear that he is with her or has made plans with ow, oc and her 6 year old..I think "how dare they!!! that should be me and my children!!!" I am so angry with that woman for coming into my life and twisting it upside down...not to mention the heartache she has forever inflicted upon my children!!! She is a hateful witch who doesnt deserve to breathe the same air i do...She destroyed my life, controlls my H every move, making it impossible to work towards any thing close to a reconciliation...I dont at this point know if that's even what i want..but it takes two and he shows no spark of interest..I cant make him love me again..I dont know how to make him see the damage they have caused...I need some help, a lot of prayers and some advice as to where to go from here...I thought the rollar coaster ride was over, but everytime i turn around...there is another hill or obsticle to overcome...so many peaks and valleys...H shows no interest in me or our family...6 months has come and gone...i am ready to throw in the towel..please offer some encouragement...I could sure use it!!!<P>aloneandsad<P>------------------<BR>

Dear Alonendsad,<P> In one of my sessions with Jenifer, she told me how she was constantly amazed at how WS's would abandon their own children while they were in the fog. Maybe this is where your husband is. <BR> I'm sorry you have to endure this. You are in my prayers.<BR> <P> God bless you, <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Thank you Lynton for your words of encouragement, every little bit helps. I am struggling to make sense of all of this. I dont even know if I still love my H, it may be that I am in love with what I thought we had...the dream of being in love and having someone to come home to, share my day with. Maybe it's that I am afraid of being alone...I cant go back and I cant move forward. I am in a state of limbo. Even though my H is living with OW, sleeping and screwing her every night, I have remained faithful, and will remain that way until the divorce papers are signed..that way, I can leave this marriage knowing that at least one of us knows how to remain faithful and that I have done nothing wrong...I am not for one second saying that I am perfect, by no means, because I made my share of mistakes during the course of my 7 year marriage, but nothing that I did, warrented his infidelity...<P>I dont understand this "fog" everyone speaks of...maybe it's because I cannot imagine myself with anyone other than my H at this point in my life, regardless of what he has done...I took a vow, for better or worse, until death do us part...In a way that is true...death has done us part, death of the man I thought he was, death of my marriage, and the death of my spirit and the willingness to go on...The only thing that keeps me going some days is my 2 wonderful children..if it werent for them, I would have already gone nuts. <P>I am praying for peace and that God will show me the direction in which he would like for me to go...whether it is to end my marriage and move forward, or to continue working to bring my H home, but his heart is hard against me, our children and God. I am praying for God to soften his heart and get that evil woman out of his life. Even if he doesnt come back to me and our family, and turns to yet another woman, at least it wouldnt be the woman who destroyed my life and broke up my family..with whom he is sharing what should be mine, intimately and emotionally. I hope this makes sense. I am so angry and bitter with her..I want for god to ease my heart..I am supposed to love my neighbor as myself..she is my neighbor, and I dont like myself very much right now, so think of how i feel about her...she didnt love me or herself too much when she slept with MY H...then deliberately got pregnant with my H child (allegedly), he was stupid enough to just say that he is the father without a dna test...if this woman will screw a married man, who else is she screwing...follow my logic here? He is not the first and certainly will not be the last..I pray for him to do to her what he has done to me, so that she might feel some of the pain that she and he have put me through...I know that the ultimate repayment of her debt to me will be on judgement day when we stand before god...He will punish her 10 times worse than I can...I pray for that...Is that evil? I pray for her demise, that in some way she might experience the trauma that they both have caused me and my children.<P>aloneandsad

Aloneandsad:<P>You're not just alone and sad, you're angry, too. And justifiably so.<P>I remember feeling like you do now. I remember all too well the feeling of emptiness and isolation and the pain of rejection....seeing cold hate or worse, indifference in the eyes of someone I was so deeply in love with.<P>It still hasn't been determiend whether or not I am one of the 'lucky' ones who were able to survive and have my marriage restored...our recovery is tentative...but, he did come home, reluctantly at first, but, he did come home. <P>The first few months were hell. His withdrawal process almost as painful as when he was gone for those six weeks. The last two years have been one struggle after another dealing with the fallout.<P>I don't know if his return was worth it yet, time will tell, along with however long I can take it. When it's bad, it's the worst. When it's good, there's nothing like it. I long for boring middle of the road consistency.<P>One way I am dealing with my rage is through the lawsuit I am filing against the OW for Personal Injury. I'm not looking for cash at all. It's strictly principle and probably a cathartic exercise...or exorcism, depending on one's point of view.<P>We all have to do what we must to get through the anger and hatred of the OW and all she stole from us. The best way to get through the anger is through prayer.<P>Keep praying, stay strong and I will pray for you, too.<P>Catnip =^^=

Thank you Catnip,<P>Youre right! I am angry..angry that I have to start building a new life at 28 years old when I thought my life was already set, angry that my children dont have their father around anymore...angry that her [censored] children are more important to him than ours, angry that I have a good job that pays well, and it's just not enough, angry that he has OW and a new baby that he knows I cannot have! That's how all of this started...In June of 1999, he had asked me to have another baby-one big problem smart guy-I had my tubes tied because I almost died during child birth with both children...You know it's bad when an obstitrician turns away business...he told me if I didnt have my tubes tied, and I got pregnant again, he wouldnt be able to deliver the next child. So we talked about it and agreed...This was in May of 1997...Anyway, In June I told him that he knew that I couldnt have anymore children, we did what was best for me and the two children we already had...He withdrew from me at that point, quit talking to me...was very distant...I felt at that point that I was loosing him. I think that is when I lost him...He began the affair in July (He says October, but he is full of garbage, because I went to a company picnic with him in July and OW was hanging all over him at that point-I wanted to rip her hair out, but I just brushed it off as HER just being flirtatious, afterall, I trusted my H-Big mistake!!! Besides...October just doesnt add up, especially when the baby was born June 9, 2000 (the day my world was ripped into a billion pieces) The baby was 8 lbs 12 oz...and this was supposedly a premie? hello? I'm not ignorant..why not tell the truth? Everything is out in the open now..but he continues to tell lie, after lie, after lie!!! I want my family back, but I dont know if I can ever trust him again, and I'm not real sure that I'm not better off without him...If he will do this to me once, wont he do it again...No matter how hard I try? You know the saying, once a cheater, always a cheater...and that would always be in the back of my mind...but it takes two to reconcile, and with him "playing house" with her and their child and the other illegitimate child, playing daddy to a child who doesnt even know who her real father is, courtesy of a mother who has no self worth-having a married man live with her, and before that, was another married man who lived with her for 7 years...who may be the father of OC, but you cant get my H to admit that...He was dumb enough to sign the birth certificate without a DNA test...She was living with this other guy when the affair began...they came together because their respective significant others were so horrible...It's them against everyone else, they are right and justified in what they did and the rest of the world is wrong and can go to H*ll...Whatever!!!! Yes, I'm bitter, and yes I'm angry....I hate HER and I want to just tear her heart out...Wait, she has no heart, so my work is done! I am praying about this anger everyday...I know my H cannot come back into my life, not now, not this way, I have to forgive him, and I have to forgive HER before that can happen...My anger has subsided a little...with each day that passes, I know you cannot tell, but it is true...I'm going through counseling with my children and by myself...The church also sends a Stephen minister to my home to help with the Christian aspect of it all...Thanks Catnip! Good Luck on your continued success with rebuilding your marriage...

Dear aloneandsad,<P>I could almost hear you screaming your rage through the pages. This is good, though. Get it out here. We all need to vent. <P>The anger stage is an exhausting stage, and one that never fully leaves us and rears up occasionally no matter what stage of discovery or recovery you're in. It does lessen with time and you will find your anger will diminish in time.<P>I am so glad you have your church and your relationship with God to get you through this awful drama. A support system to guide you through the next few months to help you determine your direction.<P>Be grateful you are 28 and not 51 like me, and be grateful you have a great job and not facing bankruptcy. Be grateful you were able to have two wonderful children. You are blessed, you do have blessings. I know they are clouded because of the trauma of discovery and the conflict in your marriage. Just keep praying and coming here for guidance and support and keep raging until it is just an trickle to be replaced with a peaceful understanding, a realistic acceptance and solutions for your future.<P>You'll be OK. People who rage get it out. It doesn't fester and make them physically ill. It's actually pretty healthy if you don't hold it too long. I have a tendency to hang onto my rage and I suffer for it. I am trying to learn to let it go but 'issues' keep popping up forcing me to relive things I would rather move away from.<P>We'll get there. God bless.<P>Catnip =^^=

Thanks Catnip,<P>I have had a good day today, and had time to reflect...I go through days that I am so angry that it is almost unbearable!!! Then again, there are days like today that I can reflect on all of the great things I have in my life..I am able to manage and maintain a home of my own...I have full custody of my children, I get to come home to them each night...and only have to say goodbye to them for a couple of hours every other weekend...I have a great job, a wonderful family, fabulous and supportive church family, loving friends who are probably so sick and tired of hearing about this stuff..but they put up with it because they love me (and in their own sick way, I think it makes their lives seem better somehow!!!) I am very lucky that I have found marriage builders, because even if I cannot save my marriage, it will help me build more healthy relationships in the future, and it also helps me to vent out all of the frustrations and anger. I dont like feeling this way, but I do...I am not a person who likes to hate..I dont hate my H, I hate what he has done..and I dont hate the OW-I strongly dislike her (one of my psychology professors once told me that hate is the strongest form of love because it takes more energy and thought to hate than it does to love) I think she is a selfish desperate woman..and I think she is desperately trying to hold onto a man who doesnt want to be with her...He is with her out of necessity, not out of love..He has nowhere to go..He cannot come home to live with me not now..not like this, he cannot live with his parents, his father has disowned him...So he sees it as no other option...I just pray for a way out for him..because if not, he will become even more bitter, towards me, towards OW (which would be fine with me), and towards OC (I dont care-but the child didnt ask to have such irresponsible parents!!!) <BR>Thank you for your words of encouragement and I hope that my situation works out as well as yours seems to be going...I know you are still having a rough time (sometimes) and I know that if by chance my H gets rid of that witch, and comes home, it wont be easy, but I am willing to try, but he has to come out of his "fog' and realize what and who this woman really is..I've only met her a couple of times, and I pegged her right the very first time...Slut, Slut, Slut!! Immoralistic slut-hateful and controlling, desperate and stupid..very stupid..anyone who calls their children "younuns"...hello? How redneck and country is that? She doesnt even have a high school education...Him wanting her instead of me makes me feel so inadequate...I am college educated, beautiful, and used to be confident, but not anymore...Why her? What does she have that I dont? I cannot figure it out!!

Dear Aloneansad,<P> I feel as inadequate as you, only I'm 46, this is my second marriage( my first wife left me for another man, he was uglier than a sack full of a**holes and had all the personality of a doorknob!) <BR> The other person has nothing on you, only through the eyes of your husband as he peers through the fog! Your feelings of inadequacy come from the rejection by someone you thought was comitted to you for life!<BR> You will get through this!!<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Younuns? Where is she from? Dogpatch? Is she Mammy Yokum's daughter?<P>I know how you feel, aloneandsad. To have my husband reject me and 'trade down' to the OW for those six weeks sent me reeling into the Looking Glass. Nothing made sense. How could he leave me for THAT? What was wrong with him? Was he going blind? Did he no longer have the need for stimulating conversation, private jokes and a wife who admired him and was devoted to him, who looked great? How could the sex be better than what we had on any level? It didn't make sense.<P>These things leave us feeling inadequate and insecure. We feel as though the years we spent with our WS was a lie, that somehow we were duped into thinking they were better than they were, that they deliberately hoodwinked us and we were just being used.<P>The truth is that we are NOT inadequate, they are. It is this lack in them that causes them to do such mindless and destructive things. <P>From what I have gathered from being on the forum these past couple years, our WS are not selective about choosing the OW...it could be anybody, and almost ALL the time, the OP is nothing compared to the BS. Usually the BS has it all over the OP in almost every area. But they have fulfilled something missing inside the WS, whatever it may be. It is our job to ferret out what it is that caused them to betray the marriage, betray us. We need a starting point in order to determine what it is that we may have done to contribute to the infidelity.<P>I struggle with this because I can't think of anything I did or did not do or any emotional need left unfulfilled. I can admire my husband and buck him up and tell him how wonderful he is, but this time he needed to feel that from someone else, because his ego needed reinforcement, I suppose.<P>It isn't you, aloneandsad, it isn't you. There is nothing wrong with you and if you check on GQ you'll see several examples of how Plan B can be the catalyst for the WS to see what life is like without you and begin missing you and remembering how wonderful you are.<P>How long have you been separated? Is the reason he is not living with you because he refused to give up involvement with OW and you refused to accept it?<P>There are better days ahead. Stay strong.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>These are just a few of the questions I asked myself over and over again for the past two years.

Thanks Lynton and Catnip,<P>Your words of encouragement keep me going...Catnip, Saturday December 9 we will be separated 6 months. The reason we are not together is in my state of shock when I first learned of the affair AND the baby all in one swoop...I sort of said a few choice words (and if you asked me today to tell you what it was I said...I havent a clue...the only thing I actually do remember saying is come to my house, get your things and get out of my house and my life..and whatever you can not carry in 2 hands...leave it...It's MINE!! That's all I remember..then apparently I went on ranting and raving and cursing like a sailor for about 20 min....but he sat there listend and let me vent) That horrible day will be forever etched in my mind...I think of what I could have said or done differently...NOTHING!<BR>I was angry, hurt and betrayed..and he would have done the same thing had it been reversed and I had done it to him...but you know what...He was so good and so sauve....That day, I picked up my children from daycare (and to tell you the truth I dont know how I got from one place to another) took them to MIL (who by the way had known since March!!!) she told me to go home and make him face me,..So I did...I went back home..I asked him to stay...but he would have to give up OW, we would figure out what to do with OC, and he would have to give up his job...Oh no!!! He couldnt do that..I asked what I did...He said "It's not you, it's me!" I asked "Why?" He said "I dont know" I asked "Did you not love me?" He replied "I love you with all of my heart, now and forever" I asked "Do you love her?" He replied "I dont know, I dont think so..." Again I said..."You dont have to leave, but we must go to counseling, we must go to church, YOU MUST give up OW AND we WILL order a DNA test.." then he said "I just need some time to figure out things...some space to think and clear my head and so do you..You will be much better off without me!!!" So, catnip, here we are...he left my home that day to think and get some perspective...HER perspective...He would have never told me had it not been for HER...SHE had the phone in her hand ready to call me...and she told him, If you dont tell her I will...so she backed him into a corner...Not that that matters, because he couldnt have wanted to be with HER, because he had known about the pregnancy since NOV 99, if he wanted HER..he would have left then...I would have found out eventually, I was already suspecting..His behavior now just doesnt fit with the humble applogetic man who left my home that day...Now it's my fault...I brought this on myself (He has never said that...that is directly out of OW mouth..she is putting horrible things into his head about me-How can I work against that? There is no way to combat the evil things she is saying and doing to undermind my marriage) He says he hates me...I dont understand it catnip...How did we go from "I love you with all of my heart and soul, now and forever" to I hate you? It just doesnt make ANY sense...I have tried NO contact with him...I didnt see nor did I talk to him for 2 months..that's when he became bitter...Which was also in the heat of the custody battle..that might explain the bitterness..

aloneandsad, My husband treated me with that anger to I couldnt figure it out either at the time. I dont think he is really angry with you I think he is angry with himself. Although we were still living in the same house we mise have not been we were miles apart. The OW will get what she deserves they all do at one point. Hopefully one day that anger you see aimed at you will be aimed at who deserves it only million times worse. What goes around comes around they will get what they deserve. I often wonder if it wouldnt have been better if my H would had left. You are lucky to be only 28 I wish I was. I wish you the best in your journy down this awful road. With love flowerseed

Thanks for responding flowerseed...Your insight is invaluable..it makes sense..He should be angry at himself...I think he's afraid to admit it...I am going to try what my mother calls the "nasty-nice" approach...be nice to him..sickening nice...He will start to wonder what has changed me and why the difference..He will think "is it another man"..."is she over me"..."why is she being so nice? I dont deserve it.." Maybe, just maybe my turnaround will lead to his turnaround...I am supposed to see him this weekend..he has to pickup the children..so I am going to be dressed up...looking "hot and sexy"..I will be so nice to him, he wont know what hit him...I have already started sowing the seed...I talked to him today and told him about my D christmas parade on Saturday (she will be in it) and I invited him and the OW...If I'm not being nasty anymore, they wont have anything to bond them together anymore....because you know, it's them against the world...He wondered today what the change was in me....Little does he know that I have found this wonderful secret called "marriage builders" I can vent, and scream and yell all that I Want here, and everyone understands my personal hell, because we are all in this boat together... We all share a common bond that we can each share our personal experiences to help each other cope..Thank all of you so much for the prayers and the support...I am starting to feel some sort of peace, and I know it' going to take a while to get over this...maybe not ever..but I am trying not to be so bitter and angry...If I can get past that...Maybe, just maybe, I will be able to save my marriage before it is completely over... <P>aloneandsad (MISSY)

E-mail me at kmkofflin@aol.com<P>Catnip =^^=

aloneandsad, I think your plan sounds wonderful. I have seen it in other people relationships when they think there mates are moving on without them it tends to wake them up. My H mother has spent her life cheating on my H dad it was fine with her when she was doing it he finally divorced her and when he found someone else or she even thought he was with anyone else she went thru the roof. She makes me sick. Bad luck for her now nither one of the guys want anything to do with her. What a mess some people can make out of there lives. No one knows about the crap my husband has done so it makes it really hard to deal with MIL. I really cant stand her with all she has put his Dad through. I with you the best it always helps to have a plan doesnt it. Bye for now with love flowerseed<P>------------------<BR>Carol Ann

I have sat for a week reading this thread & wanting to post, but having so many thoughts in my head that I just couldn't get them straight & written down. So hear goes...<P>I am very concerned about you & your emotional state. I just cannot bear to think about how much pain you are in. The two of them are controlling too much of your heart, mind, and spirit. You just CANNOT allow this to continue. <P>You mention that you have done Plan A, but I tend to wonder if you really did it completely. What I mean by this is, I consider Plan A to also be the gift I give to ME. I tried to force all thoughts out of my head that were not productive for me or my children. So thinking about OW & all that stuff just really didn't do anything good for me, so I refused to do it. I think about other things & focus elsewhere. I try to be lighthearted, since I feel better and my children benefit from it. Laugh. Smile. I KNOW your don't feel like it, but the more you do it, it starts to be natural. Treat your H in a loving manner. I know he doesn't deserve it, but YOU don't deserve to have the spite and ill will fill up your soul. All of this is what I consider Plan A. Not just sending notes and doing special things (which is what I have seen lot's of folks state is their Plan A). <P>It is about having joy. Regardless of what is happening in life, have joy. Soon, folks start to gravitate towards you. Your H will too, unless he just truely likes being around warped people. (And if that is the case, you really don't want him in your life.) I tend to put into action the words of Christ and a few other great wise men. When you are joyious inside, all else doesn't matter. And you will find that you will have the people in your life that are on that same path. <P>So, dress up this weekend, look hot, talk sweet. But DON'T do it for your H. Do it for YOU! It is like loosing 10 lbs. No one else really cares, but YOU know how it feels. Plan A is the same concept. Feel it. Wear it well. Please do not allow bad stuff, bad people, bad acts to enter your soul and impact you. <P>Take care.... Carolyn

Excellent advice everyone!!!!<P>Aloneandsad,<BR>I'm really not great at giving advice. But I did have an eyeopener yesterday. I went on a field trip with my youngest daughter and all I could think about was that everyone was snickering behind my back (which they probably were). But why should I care? I was letting this OW control my thoughts and feeling to the point that I couldn't even enjoy a day out with my child. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I've decided I have given enough of my time and energy to her. I'm getting on with my life. I'm trying to get my self confidence back, something I never really had a problem with before. But the days that I feel confident in myself are the best days. I know that I will probably go back down on this roller coaster, but for now, I going to enjoy this feeling of peace and try to keep focusing on my happiness and the happiness of my children. <BR>I know your H THINKS he took the "easy way out", but he will realize what this OW is and hopefully come back to his senses before its too late. But if doesn't, he's the loser here. You will go on with your life and he will be stuck with the slut!<P>Good luck to you!<BR>Eraser<P>P.S. Just yesterday, I posted and was feeling like I was going nuts. Let's pray I can keep this state of mind for a while. Marriage builders really does do wonders.