Hi Everyone,<P>Some of you may recognize me, I usually post on Gen Questions II.<P>I was reading here today and for some reason felt a need to post.<P>My H and I are headed for D this year. We've been married for 16 years, together 21. We have two OCs in our lives from two OW (boys are 8.5 and 9.5). My H fathered them during a one year seperation. When we reconciled I only knew of one of the OC, my H lied about the second. It wasn't until 1.5 years into our recovery that I discovered the second OC.<P>When we discussed the arrangements for both OC my H claimed he did NOT want to participate in their lives, we would pay support, but he had no interest whatsoever in being in their lives. He said "Those Women BURNED me by getting pregnant deliberately". He was admamant in his decision and I went along with it and in a way relieved because of the nature of the OW (both of them real bad news). The two OW in question had harrased me unbelievably without ever meeting me or knowing me, and they were cruel and very violent, one of them spent lots of time in jail because of her violent tendencies and drug addiction. Both women are heavy into the bar scene.<P>So, flash forward 8+ years, I find my H is secretly seeing both OC. Not only is he seeing them but he is also having an affair with one of the OW, the one that was a one night stand. He and OW have decided it was MY fault H did not see OCs for those years. I am the one to blame and I was the one who made the decision. And so very very unbelievably he said "I've been BURNED by you (W) for not allowing me (H) to be in my OCs' lives".<P>My H completely forgot our talks and that he was the one making the decision to not be in the OCs lives. He told me that every single day during those 8 years he woke up feeling guilty about the OC. He said he felt he couldn't talk to me about it because it was such a betrayal and that because we never had children together, he felt it wasn't fair to me. He said that he gave up "his children" to be with me and that it was my fault that they (OCs) didn't have a relationship with their father for those years.<P><BR>I'm not sure why I'm posting this. I'm struggling with feeling like I was blamed for a decision he made and wanted. I also feel guilt about the OCs not having their father for those years.<P>I thought if I posted this it may help some of you see what can happen if you and your spouse aren't truly close in your decision regarding OCs. That complete and utter honesty at this time in your lives it crucial. That it's so important to make it "safe" for your spouse to be 100% honest with you.<P>My situation weighs on me every single day of my life now. I'm not sure what I could have done that would have made it different. I regret believing my H, I regret not seeing those OC for those years, I regret getting back with him 9+ years ago because as I look back I think he was running away from a scary situation and was using me to protect him. I almost regret ever loving him.<P>Jo<P><BR>------------------<BR>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited February 04, 2001).]

jo,<P>thanks for posting your story. i know i sometimes fear that he might want to see the OC. i ask him a lot. he always says no. i guess we will have to see when we go to court, whether he asks for visitation or not. i don't know how i would react. i actually pushed him in the beginning, telling him maybe he should see her. but he has always said he doesn't want to. that though biologically it is his child, he doesn't see her as his child. he did not want a child, and the child wasn't conceived in love. he usually does what he wants and if he wanted to see her, i know he would be seeing her, with or without my consent. but i know it is probably a fear for a lot of us, so thanks for sharing.<P>and so sorry that you are heading for D. that must be very hard for you. i am sorry your husband wasn't honest and took advantage of your love. you had no fault. it is him that is turning the stories around now. don't let his guilt etc get to you. you were the innocent victim in this. and in my opinion he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. my prayers for you...<P>happy_girl

Thanks for sharing your story. So sorry you're headed for D, but maybe some things just can't be fixed. You sound like a very loving person, someone who was will to forgive not one, but two betrayals that produced two OC...you're a whole lot bigger than I would ever be! You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. You stayed with your H even after the two betrayals. How much more could he expect from you. It's not your fault that he didn't see those oc, just like it wasn't your fault that they were born in the first place. Please try not to spend valuable time feeling regrets and guilt. Neither emotions are productive and justified. You did nothing wrong. The only thing you did was love your H. I wish you the best. Prayers for peace in your life as you move forward.<P>Comfort<P>------------------<BR>Remember the sunshine when the storm seems unending...

Resilient,<BR>I'm so sorry you've been through this. NO, it is NOT YOUR FAULT!!! Your H was dishonest with you!!! And now he and the XOW is using you to excuse their own rotten behavior/dishonesty/etc. None of us are mindreaders. May God bless your future... may it be full of happiness like you never knew and yourself healthy and whole. Thank you for your story--shared it with my H.<P>Jenny

Jo, I remeber reading your posts and thinking "if she can do this, I can do this". Your path and choices have meant so much to me. My fears are resounded in your post... what happens in 2, 4, 8 years down the road and my H decides to change the plan on me (once again). I know we are not on truthful grounds now. He just can't seem to be completely honest with me. As long as I have known him I realize he has had a "shadow life" that consisted of not sharing things with me. Not that it was all things as terrible as an affair. Many times it was just innocent stuff. But he really likes to maintain a section of his life that no one is part of. That terrifies me. I know I will be in your shoes in a few years. <P>Jo, thank you so much for remembering to come here and post. So many of us are feeling our way through this in the dark. We must trust our instincts along this journey. Our only other source of guidence is counseling and the wisdom of the folks who are also on this path, either at the same place or in front of us or even behind us. You could have easily just went on without coming back. Thank you for doing so.<P>I am so sorry for you and all the pain you have gone through. I think we all know why you would have taken the risk. We are all women who love our families and our children and spouses. It just seems to be one-sided in some of our relationships. It sounds like your H, like mine, may have a bit of a personality issue that goes beyond what we can do in repairing a marriage. You took the path that you knew was right. I am so sorry he could not be more honest and respectful of you. I just think that respect is the least thing our spouses could give us. This is something that most of them show to folks they barely know. Simple respect. <P>I hope you seize life with every last bit of joy and happiness that is out there. "many people strive to high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism"... quoted from the Desiderata. You are a simple hero. To many people. And to human kind. You strive for the best you knew to do. I am just so sorry that you did not have an honerable companion on this journey. Maybe that is part of your future.<P>Take care of yourself. Carolyn

Resilient, Thank you for sharing with us so sorry that your soon to be ex is trying to blame you for his awful behavior. I cannot see how he can even try to blame this on you especialy when he has two oc to deal with dont let him. You deserve so much more than what has been giving you I will pray with all my heart that you will find the peace you deserve. It seems h is got a big problem facing up to the fact that he is burning himself and is trying to put the guilt on you they all deserve each other. I wish the best for you take care and let us know how you are doing. With love flowerseed

Resilient:<P>I read this a week ago and stuffed it back in my memory banks under "Memo-Things To Look Into Later".<P>It's been a hectic week with my husband back at work and not home long enough to have a conversation about anything more than "how were the roads on your way home?" or "what do you want in your lunch?".<P>Having a few minutes together this morning, I remembered what you said and asked him right out "Do you feel a pull to the child?" and "Do you think about her?" He said "No, there's no pull for contact or to see her or be involved in any way, she isn't real to me being so far away and never having any contact with OW." He then said, "No, I don't think about her." Then turned right around and said (contradictory) "I do think about her sometimes what a terrible life she will have with that person, living at home with her welfare mom and grandparents and I feel terrible about it, but there's nothing I can do about it."<P>I told him he could leave me and go to her. He said, "That wouldn't be the right thing to do. It's the right thing for me to be here with you."<P>I then told him I didn't want him here by default or because he felt it was the "right thing to do", that I only wanted him here if he WANTED to be here with me, otherwise, I'm not interested. Thanks anyway.<P>All these months, he's been saying he never thinks about OC only to find out he does. That's OK. I was confused and troubled that he claimed he didn't think of her ever. I thought it unusual and wondered if there was something wrong with him. I guess little by little, I will get the truth in bits and pieces as he feels safe enough to talk to me and reveal his inner most thoughts and feelings. In a way, I am glad it crosses his mind occasionally. I was beginning to wonder if I were married to a sociopath.<P>I also read about your recent calculations on GQ in reference to the Harley time frame, that the affair is right on schedule for it's predictable and ultimate demise. The only thing I want to caution you about is the fact that your husband said that he doesn't want to answer to 'anyone'...so, it doesn't sound like he is wanting to be tied down to any one woman, unless, of course, he doesn't count you as one of the herd trying to lasso him. I understand your hopefulness but step warily and guard your heart. It makes good sense given this man's history.<P>Glad to see you back here checking in and posting, Jo. I know you have had a hell of a ride and a real tough time. Stay strong, positive and guard your heart.<P>Catnip =^^=<P> <P><p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited February 10, 2001).]

Thank you Happy Girl, Jenny, Comfort, Takingcare, Flowerseed ... for responding to my post. I appreciate your very comforting words. The OC situation is so hard, so difficult, because as women we only want to nurture and take care of our families, so when an OC enters the pic we become torn by our love and protective instincts of family and our loving nature as women to love children. It's so hard to go thru. But, I can say I hope and plan to be a better person because of all this. I strive for that every day. And I know you all do too.<P>Catnip ...<P>Thank you for responding, and for your very kind words, Sweetie.<P>I want to be ever so careful how I say this, Catnip ... but my H also told me he felt bad for the boys but there was nothing he could do about it, that their situation was so sad, being brought up by Welfare moms, moms with substance abuse probs and trouble with the law. He said it was just a sad situation, BUT he said "those" women underhandidly got what they wanted and he was not interested in being involved with them or their children. He said his life was with me, that he always knew we were supposed to be together and that those OCs were a mistake. He said that he thought about it alot and fully expected that one day we'd have two angry teenage boys at our doorstep wanting answers. <P>Believe me when I say we had *several* (What I thought) heartfelt talks about it. We even talked about how 10 years from now would he regret his decision, and he promised me he would not, that he would NOT resent me for not seeing them. Oh well, you do what you can.<P>Well Catnip, I too felt some relief that he said he felt sad for them, I didn't want to think he was a sociopath ... and after a few years in recovery my insecurities about OCs dissapated.<P>As I look back I think I should have brought up the subject, I should have questioned his feelings regarding OCs on a regular basis, not frequently, just every so often, to see if they changed.<P>I would say if the OC is weighing on your H even to a small degree now that you should keep your mind open and your marriage safe enough for him to tell you if he changes his mind. <P>I think with most men, not all, when children are very young (infants and toddlers) their interest in them is not as peaked as when they are in their more cognitive years (5, 6 years and up).<P>I'm not trying to scare anyone here on this site .. I just want to share what I've experienced because believe me, I thought my H was 100% sure of what he wanted, he convinced me and he was soooooo believable. These were promises made to me. <P>And do remember Catnip ... even if your H does one day want to participate in the OC life, doesn't necessarily mean the A with OW will resume ... my H is a very weak and dishonorable man, he just is. I feel so bad saying this, but I believe it to be true.<P>I hope I've helped in some way and not frightened you or any others. Just please use what I've experienced and rememeber that these OC will some day be teenagers/adults, and perhaps want to know their BIO folks and visa-versa.<P>Love to you Catnip and All.<P>Best<BR>Jo<P><BR>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited February 10, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited February 11, 2001).]

Yeah, I've thought about her showing up at our door, curious, wanting answers. However, I still maintain it is her mother's sin to explain why she knowingly screwed a MM and deliberately got herself pregnant. My husband's responsibility ends with the support check and is a 'donor', unless of course, he has a change of heart. If he does, I'll try to be prepared for that day.<P>We have a granddaughter that is just slightly older than the OC and we see her a lot. My husband seems to lavish this little girl with love and attention when he sees her but is always glad to see her go home. He's too old to be chasing toddlers on a full time basis.<P>Thanks for the warning, though. I will keep it in mind and in the memory banks to be utilized should the occasion arise.<P>You sound pretty good, Jo, for someone who's been pretty beaten up emotionally. Are you getting professional help or something? You still dating or at least going out and having some fun now and then?<P>Hope you keep popping in now and then.<P>Catnip =^^=

resilient,<P>Thank you so much for your words of wisdom. I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. I know the life you are living is the life I fear. I am going to have my husband read this thread. I know that I have to try and prepare. I wish that we had some people on hear who are where you are but that the husbands still did not want contact. I realize that some where out in the world there is, but most of us here are in the early stages. <P>Stop in every now and then and let us know how you are doing.<P>babstr.

Bumping this to the TOP.<p>Hoping my story can somehow help someone here. This board, understandably, has the most pain and anguish on all of MB. The worse betrayal one could experience. In your painful emotions, please don't make the same mistakes I did, consider the future, because it does eminently arrive.<p>God Bless you All.<p>Love,
Jo

Wow!
This was definitely worth digging out of the archives. Thanks Resilient. I'm speechless...

Thanks for bumping this post. There are a lot of things here that I had not thought about. I am in process of D, but also waiting to see what happens...what decisions my H makes re: OC. I would like to see things work out for us, but don't want to decide (again) to try to work it out and then be hit again in a couple of years with his decision to now see oc. My H also has said he will do whatever it takes to keep our family together, but then things change again. So confused. OC is only 2 months old...this will be in our lives forever and I'm not sure I want to deal with it for the rest of my life. I never thought I would end up divorced, especially with 2 young children (ages 3 and 6), but I'm finally at a point in my life where I know I would be ok on my own. Thanks again, Resilient, for bumping your post!!!