In case you don't remember, I am the OW who produced "OC". Our son is now 3 and asking questions "Where's my Daddy", "I wanna see my Daddy". Yes, of course, "I" should have thought about that before I became involved w/ MM. To this day, MM has only seen OC on one occasion (paternity test). I sent W a letter approximately 8 months ago telling her how sorry I was about everything that had happened, how selfish I had been. I asked this forum whether or not I should send it and the general response was "I would feel very differently if OW was remorseful...send it". <P>Today I called her to find out whether or not they ever intend to be a part of OCs life. I had considered sending a letter a couple of months ago but decided against it. I received a response, in addition to a lashing for every having sent the "apology letter". W claimed that she didn't care if I was "sorry" that it really made no difference to her - that I sent the letter to "make myself FEEL better". She said that because, unfortunately, the child is attached to ME, they will not allow this child to pollute their home. According to her I am selfish, immoral, and they would not welcome OC in to their home because of his upbringing. Now, I can completely understand why she would feel this way. I guess I should hang my head low and feel guilty for the rest of my life for what I did? I have prayed for forgiveness and I know I received it from God...I thought the final step was repenting to the one you sinned against. I was not "expecting" anything from this phone call. I merely wanted to open the door in the case that they had considered seeing OC. She asked if I understood "why" she felt this way and I said yes, I completely understand why she would have these feelings. I have no intention of EVERY contacting them again. I have the answer that I was so desparately searching for...whether or not they had any intention of seeing OC. Now I can figure out how I am going to answer his questions. My only hope is that someday (it could be 30 years from now) she will be able to forgive me and realize that people really do change and we all make mistakes. <P>I am so sorry for all of you who have gone through this! This is a horrendous situation to be put in - I often wonder if I did the right thing by keeping my son. I love him so much.....but is that enough?<P>

I read your post last night and have been thinking about it ever since. It made me wonder if my feelings toward ow would change if she apologized - which she will never do. But if she did, would that change my feelings towards her? I used to think that an apology - seeing that she was truly remorseful - would make a world of difference to me. But now I am not so sure. Because really, I don't even care all that much about the actual infidelity anymore. I think I have pretty much gotten over that without the apology. It's what she is doing now - breaking our agreement, taking a ridiculous amount of cs, dragging us through the courts in order to get visitation - that ticks me off.<P>As such, I am just curious - do you collect child support from the guy? I am wondering if that could be a reason why wife is not at all open to your apology. It is a mighty bitter pill to swallow watching your hard work go to another woman. And maybe she resents you intruding in her life. About a year ago, before this whole cs mess was started again, ow called my mom's house to get our telephone number so that she could ask my h about his family's medical history. Although I did feel that the oc has a right to the medical history, I really resented her contacting MY parents. It seems sometimes like anytime she wants, she can just walk in and disrupt my life. That, I think, bothers me far more than the actual affair does anymore.<P>that said, I can tell you that I do wish that ow would apologize and open the door for us to see oc without making things so damn difficult.<BR>cdcollins

justme,<BR>I think what you need to focus on at this point would be your child and yes leave them alone.(My only hope is that someday (it could be 30 years from now) she will be able to forgive me and realize that people really do change and we all make mistakes) Since you did keep your child you need to apply what you said to your child. I think if the ow would have told me she was sorry for what she had done. I would not be having as much troble in dealing with things as I do.She always gives me the sickening attitude that I did something wrong for having my family. flowerseed<BR>

The OW in my case has sent me an email kind of apologizing for her role in this mess. It did not make me feel better as it was couples with expectations that her child would have a relationship with my children and my H, something I am vehemently opposed right now. I feel a tremendous threat to my own sanity and life if contact with the OC is made. I cannot help it. I see what my H and OW has done, both selfish, to disrupt my life, and I cannot help defend the family I have. I have reason to try and work through things with my H, as he and I have known each other for more than 30 years and have build a long life together. I have no reason to reach out to OC, even if it is half my Husbands.All I see is the wrong actions perpetuated by the OW and H contaminating my life, a life I had no idea was being ruined by the man who was my husband and his lover. I do not see the OC as the innocent party, rather I see it as the product of two selfish people who ruined my family's life. I have to put my family first, there is no room for the OC at least now in that. It is too painful, I cannot open my heart to the child. I also am upset both so freely tried not to get pregnant,a nd now I am paying 1200 a month to the OC for my husband's mistake.There goes lots of things my husband and I were going to do with the money, the security I have felt economically which now is stretched and changed, the threat economically to my own children's future, college, etc. I hate the money he has to pay- I keep telling him half of that is mine, how is he going to make it up to me. But, more importantly, I do not see the OW caring about my kids when she had sex with my H unprotected and decided to keep the child. All she sees is her child's rights.For that I cannot forgive her.Sorry, that is how I feel. I pray you and my OW find a real father for the child, and if not remove my H from financial obligations, remove him from emotional obligations. THe emotional connection is very damaging for me to live with.Some days I feel like I will give up and not be here, it is that painful.

All I can say is be honest with your child about the whole situation if you can...I had a child from an affair years ago..I was married at the time..separated..but still married..I was divorced 6 months after my daughter was born..she'll be 13 yrs old this year..I've been honest with<BR>her..telling her I made mistakes..and having her was NOT one of them..because having her helped me change for the better..<P>Her natural father does not pay child support and never has...He wasn't married so I didn't have to deal w/ that..<BR>but..as for your child..be honest..tell him the truth..but<BR>in a way that he will understand...pray for wisdom..<P>Mostly let them know they are loved..<P>And as far as the wives go..the child didn't do anything to be so hated by you..and yes they may be a painful reminder<BR>of what your spouses did and what you did or didn't do to cause the marriage to be where it was at the time of the affair..but why should the children suffer<BR>for their parents mistakes?? The fathers need to take responsibility..and if you can be supportive of that..then all the better..and you can work out visitation to where you<BR>don't have to have contact w/ OW..you could have it set up <BR>to where a neutral party meets w/ them and brings the child to you..but this requires love for the child..and whats in the best interest of the child..and adult actions..and reactions..<P>Can you put aside your hurt and pain in order to love this<BR>child? They are apart of your husband whom you say you love<BR>so much..even if they did screw up..it wasn't just the other<BR>woman who brought these children into the world...they did<BR>have help..<P>and one more thing to think about..would you want your husband to treat your own children like this if you got<BR>divorced???

The MM did provide a "lump sum" payment to me for child support. It was much less than I would have received if I had chosen to receive monthly payments and have it reviewed every couple of years. Like W said "I made a few bucks". <P>I plan to tell my son the truth when he is at an appropriate age. I will tell him that I used poor judgment and that is why I am trying so hard now...I don't want him to make the mistakes I made. I made a terrible choice, but that does not make Son an awful human being. He is just a child. He has no idea the complexity of this situation. I hate that the W felt son would "pollute" their home. For goodness sakes, he is a CHILD. To say that "I" would pollute their home, then yes, I can see why she may feel this way but to feel that having Son in their home would "pollute" their home is ridiculous!!! He is 3 years old, all he knows is how to love, laugh, and smile.<P>For a long time, I wondered whether or not my Son would ever feel "equal" in MM & Ws home. I now have my answer. They are so blinded by their hate and anger toward me that they would never be able to see the child for who HE is. I'm sure they would make him feel inferior. For that reason, I am grateful that they do not see him. Again, I understand WHY W would feel this way, I'm just grateful that my son is not subjected to her feelings....W would likely taint my son's perception of me. Son will judge me...he will be able to see that I made mistakes but that I have chosen to live my life in a different way. I am afraid of the damage the W would do to my son. For these reasons, I am at total peace with the way things are - I completely respect their decision not to see son.<P>lsb...I did not have any expectations for them to welcome Son into their home. The apology was not intended to convince them to be in Son's life. The apology was because I am truly sorry for what happended.......I find it interesting that she claims to be spiritual, but couldn't understand WHY I would have sent an apology letter. I sent the apology because biblically, it is my responsiblity to do so. What she does with it or how she reponds to it is her decision.....<P>Believe it or not, I have learned so much from the Ws on this board. So many times I could not understand HOW someone could desert their child...it becomes clearer to me every day. I will continue to pray for all of us....<P><BR>

justme,<BR>I think probly what the wife meant as far as not wanting child to pollute her home. Not really the child himself but how the child was concieved. To me they do not need to know when they are kids that the world is such a rotten place. That people just have sex have babies with someone they dont love or even really know. I know I dont want my little girl to think that it is all right to screw a married man get pregnate and then expect the child to be welcome into the family like its no big deal. Its just not right that so many children are being born into this world this way. I dont mean to be cruel but to me this is just so sick to bring a child into this world this way and for them to know how they were concieved. Good luck in raising a child that isnt going to be messed up from all of this.I think having a boy is going to be even harder. Maybe someday you can find a man that is free to be your h and willing to raise you son as his own. flowerseed

<BR><p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited March 24, 2001).]

Just me, I agree with flowerseed- I do not see the child as pollution, but the act of conception for us betrayed spouses is very painful and hard to separate out from the child. I know in this regard we think differently. Right now I am fighting to keep my marriage alive and a family intact for my own kids-like you doing for your child, I have to do that for mine. You and the OW in my case chose to have the child-my husband would have supported adoption and/or abortion but the OW thought initially she would do it all alone and not expect anything from my H.She didn't take into account how it would impact him or his family, even though she initially said she would not want to hurt his family and knew from the outset he would never leave me. 6 months later she decided she couldn't do it alone, filed for paternity and child support, and here we are. I know my husband, who made a huge mistake in all this, must pay this price, but what is hard for me is me paying this price, and my kids, all like your child innocent ones. That is why I cannot accept the child into our life-it is a huge threat to our existence and the sanctity and security of our life. I just cannot do it. For the record, my husband has had contact with OC before he told me and now is not just now due to my feelings.When or if that changes I do not know. If he chooses to have contact, it may be the end of us, and his family with me. I know that will kill him as well-so what will be gained? He will never truly be a father to the OC or his kids from his marriage, and now 3 children will be harmed more so.I think your son is lucky to have you as a loving mother, keep it that way. ANd I hope you find a man who wants to father him the way I am sure he deserves. I hope that happens for my OW as well-although I think for now she is banking on my husband serving that role.I do not see how a few moments here and there from the biological father who is in a committed family makes a good father-I think if I were the OW, I would not expect this, nor think it would be good for the child either. I would focus my efforts on finding a mate for me and father for child, or provide male role models in his life. That would be the loving thing to do Good luck, just me. I think children from divorce are also different-you enter into a relationship with a divorced parent knowing they have kids and their kids are part of the package-I had no such opportunity to be included in decision whether this child should exist or not, and how it would affect my life.That is difficult as well. Just my thoughts, but good just, just me.

Every woman is different and therefore we all react differently. Now if my ow would send me that letter I thinkit would help me heal but the ow in my H 's life felt she did nothing wrong since SHE wasnt the one who was married to me. It just wasnt her fault at all and I should accept her child...which btw I was willing to do. Bc I did feel that this child was as much a victim as the rest of us who had no choice. A lot of people do not agree with that and is their right as a victim. I totally understand that point of view also. But I was willing...however ow could not stand the thought of ME in Her childs life! Can you believe the gall of such a thing! Her child had a wonderful opportunity to be accepted and she blew it. I even sent x-mas presents to oc and my daughters outgrown clothes! I even sent her older daughter (who had no daddy either) a present so she wouldnt feel left out on Christmas!<BR>Sorry...still upsets me....<BR>Anyway she wanted me out of her childs life so bad that she withdrew her suit for child support and moved with no forwarding address...<BR>Which left me and mine to try and pick up the pieces and her to move on to another married man. Mine wasnt the first.<BR>My point after getting off my soap box was that I would like the apology...just to know that she finally admits to some wrong doing in all this. To let her arrogent aires go...she acted as though she were the one wronged in all this...so I would like the letter. I think maybe your intentions were good (with the letter) but in wifes case unwanted. You did what youcould so now you move on. Tell your son the truth when he is old enough so hopefully he will learn from your mistakes. Then when he hits 18 he can search down dad if he wants. I will pray for your son.<BR>Prayers<BR>broken_wings

Thornedrose, I have taken this from your post, as for your child..be honest..tell him the truth..but<BR>in a way that he will understand...pray for wisdom.. I think this is great advise to the ow. The mother of the oc in my life has not done this, we are not even sure at this time, if she has told her c who his father is, and my h has already started visitation for over a month now. SHe is a coward and has said many times she can not bear to hurt him and tell him what happened and how he can into this world. I do not get that and have a problem understanding the logic in her reasoning. She wants the $ support, but does not want to fess up to why she should get it.why should the children suffer<BR>for their parents mistakes?? The fathers need to take responsibility..and if you can be supportive of that..then all the better..this was also taken from your post many of the fathers/husbands of women on this site are taking responsibility in one way or another some men only in $ support others in both physical and $, I agree the children should not suffer that is why my children will met the oc so my children do not suffer in the future, and also the oc will not suffer because maybe we can help him enjoy life a little more than with just his mom, she does not seem to be doing such a great job. $ is a main issue in her life not physical and emotional support as well, she is not really interested in the others we had to push and fight for the physical and emotional where as many ow are the ones pushing for that ours did not want it, she only wanted the $. Thornedrose, I have to say I feel you really should not push the issue of the women accepting the oc, it is a very touchy subject and one that sometimes takes months, years, to even consider. I for one have taken 3 years to accept and decide to let oc into my family's life. The lecturing tone as I took it and if it was not meant to be then I am sorry but I was offended by it. These women have suffered a great deal and yes the child is not the one that hurt them /me directly but we should not be expected to do anything other than dealing with ourself and our own family, if in helping ourself and our family we end up helping the oc then all the better, but I am sorry to disagree and say that the oc has nothing coming from my family. The only one who owes to him is his mom, in deciding to bring him into the world, knowing the life he would have to live. I have chosen to help the oc but you or anyone else should not expect or tell other bs how to treat these oc it is up to each one of them individually to decide what is best for their individual families. Everyone is different, every family is different and every situation is different. There is no one set answer as to how to decide or treat this whole oc/ow/visitation and acceptance issue. Hope I have made my thoughts clear without offending anyone, it is just this acceptance and visitation issue of oc is a very sensitive one, to me and many others and I do get offended when I feel us bs are expected to act a certain way to the ow/oc. I do not think that any belief on this subject should be lectured out, or directed to any of the bs. It is something I believe needs a great deal of time to digest and accept in our own unique and individual ways there is no one right answer and no clear way to treat all concerned parties. Gabi1116<BR><p>[This message has been edited by gabi1116 (edited March 25, 2001).]

I think that is very well said Gabi.

Broken wings, I am glad you enjoyed and agreed with my last post. I only hope that and wish ow would or could feel the same way. They are the ones who need to read my words and try and understand what all this does to the bs and his or her family. Thanks again, Gabi1116

gabi,<BR>You have to have something to understand with.You will find most ow have not acquired what it takes to do that.with love flowerseed

As you've seen, the OC is a very delicate subject. Here's my 2 cents, for what it's worth. I'm one of the lurking OW on this board. My situation has turned out as well as it possibly could, but there were several factors that lead up to this "coming to terms". The BS in my story is a very strong woman who loves her husband immensely. He screwed up all the way around and we're just trying to make the best of the mess that was created. However, prior to the decision to "be involved", I had already resolved myself to making the best of a heart wrenching situation. Out of love for my son, and a desire to consider everyone, I had decided that I would not press their involvement in my baby's life. If there was a willingness to do so, I was positive they would find a way to let me know. I'm sure that the last thing they wanted from me was unexpected reminders of my existence. Even a letter of apology can cause the bottom to fall out of the barrel, so to speak. Everyone needs to heal in their own time and way. There was no way for me to guage how long it would take her, or him, to recover from this devastation. I own my actions and am responsible for me. I cannot presume to know what is going on in their lives. It was my decision to stay at a respectful distance and let them make the move when or IF they were ever ready. Until that day, life goes on. I would have to deal with single parenting, with the assumption that there would be no involvement. Luckily, for my son, his father does want to be a part of his life, and his W supports him. So, we go on with this new chapter in our lives. I have to be ever mindful of what I say, how I say it, and when I say it. I recognize that our story is very unique. Not every one turns out as well as mine has. I have to do my part to preserve that and make it as functional as possible. In order for that to happen, it comes down to one simple yet powerful word: respect. Respect her wishes. You're not dealing with just MM. They come as a team, so you have to respect what she wants as well…no matter how hard or unfair it may seem to you, it probably looks the same way from her perspective. <P>Good luck with your little boy. No matter how awful our mistakes, children are very simplistic and have a huge capacity to love. I wouldn't dwell too much on being "judged" by your son. You're his momma. His love for you is unconditional.<BR>

One thing I would like to add is to you ow with boys if you find that you have no man in your sons life to be a male role model. I would look into a big brother program as soon as your sons are old enough. I'm really afraid for most when your boys reach teenage years you are going to find yourselfs in a whirl of s*** you never could have imagined that you could be in no matter how hard you try to be both.Even you obratti even though the boys father is going to see him being as far away as he is, I cant see him really being able to father a boy like he deserves.

I agree with you there. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I've got it covered all by myself. Although I have a lot of confidence in my abilities, I also realize that I can't do it all. I was very choosy in who my son's Godparents would be. He now has a Godfather who has always played a very big role in my life, which will now transcend into my son's life. In addition, Jonas has uncles who have already committed themselves to helping me fill in the gaps. I know it's not perfect, but I believe we'll be a lot better off than a lot of single moms who don't stop to think about 10-15 years down the road. Believe me, I did make a fully informed choice when I decided to have my baby. I know bumpy roads are ahead. I have to trust that I am doing everything I can to smooth the ride. Big Brothers may still be an option. It all depends on what the future brings.

obratti,<BR>Good for you and your son a ow with brains I like that. By the way Jona is a very cute name. flowerseed

Ohbratti,<BR>Just curious - how have things gone with you and the father and his wife since your first meeting? I know that went well, and I've been wondering what has been happening since then.<BR>cdcollins

Things have been going pretty well. I'm still playing it low-key. I don't call unless there's really a need. I have sent pictures of Jonas, but that's pretty much the extent of the contact right now. There's really not much more we can do at this time. Jonas is very young. As he gets older, and his dad gets stationed closer, there will be more interaction. I don't want to barrel down the middle of their lives like a freight train.