Today is my b-day. My H woke up ,we ate breakfast, fine o.k. Then he says that he is going to see the oc today. On my b-day and on a Sunday. We get into an argument . He accuses me of trying to stop him from seeing the oc. I said what about the e-mail I sent you stating that I am expecting to be involved now. He says I don't agree and ow won't agree. He said that the 2 of you hate each other and that it would never work. Then he says you call he and try to work it out. So , he left saying that he was not going to see oc and that he was going to work today and tomorrow he would go and not come home until midnight(trying to hurtme) So he left and I called ow.We hadn't spoken in over a year. She was surprised.I said that it is time we get over all of this bitterness and now I want to start coming with him to see the baby. She said that she could agree to that,but doubts taht my h would agree. She said he would have to start being STRAIGHT with both of us. And that if we became friendly that she wouldn't cheat a friend .She told me that they see each other about every 10 days for 2 hours. But she would be happy to stop that and be glad to get rid of him. She said she has no problem not seeing him anymore, but he pushes their rendevous and she goes along with it. SHe said if he doesn't agree, then I can see the baby but he can't .She also says that they never discuss me or our marriage. This affair has been off and on. Sometimes they go 2 months without speaking to each other, but since the end of April things have been friendly with them again. She says when she is finished needing him and his help that it will be good riddens. She said that she would speak to him and call me back.She says that she is tired of all of his lies, but needs to remain friendly with him because of the baby and his help. When I called him to tell him about the ow and I being civil and trying to work it outhe said ,fine. THt he has been thinking about this and we should just split up, Tthat I am welcome to see the baby when he is not there.That he doesn't want me involved and that he has only been here because he feels sorry for me. I didn't tell him what she said about their meetings, don't know her motives,but she sounded more sincere than ever. Could she be lying?I don't feel like she is. He says he could take all odf the children and ow and I could just disappear/ He says he doesn't need either one of us. Heis suppose to come over tonight at 6:30 to talk about the numbers and arrangements he has come up with. Another slow death for me.I am just thankful that my 2 oldest boys are out of town. He has made these same threats many times before. But the thing is ,I should be the one threatning. Should I believe ow? I haven't seen this side of him for months. I am shocked and very dissappointed. Please respond

What a horrible day! I am so sorry. I have known those type of days... when it seems you have ended up in some very bad movie. <P>But now you need to step up to the plate and take care of YOU and those children. Be nice to him. Let him come over and present his "numbers". Then tell him you will think this over. Then tomorrow... FIRST THING... you go to an attorney. Take what ever your H has presented to you and have them look it over. You need some protection. Your h is in a corner at this point and he may start being ugly if he feels you and OW have figured his game out. <P>I am concerned for you & your children. You have been through so much pain & dishonesty. Try to just focus on what is best path for you and them right now. Keep posting on what is happening. Take care... Carolyn

Blue,<P>I am so sorry that you are still having such a hard time. About 10 weeks ago, we were at about the same point. I was hammering on H about ongoing contact with OW. (3 to 4 hours a week spent on the phone with her) She was manipulating him with guilt. I don't feel bad about hammering on this point because for me, it was a make or break point of our marriage. I could forgive the A and the OC, but I would not continue to live in an emotional triangle.<P>He finally told me he wanted a divorce and that he was sick to death of both of us and wanted to get away from both of us. Two days later he recanted and things are much better for us. He has finally stopped contact with OW and we are on a visitation hiatus until OW gains better control of her emotions and behavior.<P>In your case, do you think that you might be approaching plan B time? Have you considered being the initiator in a separation plan rather than the other role?<P>I agree with Carolyn's advice about seeing an attorney. You need to know where you stand. Protect yourself financially and emotionally. Your H seems unwilling to get off of the fence and Plan B might just be the thing to do it.<P>However, I know that you are going to be OK whichever way things turn out. Use your friends, church, family, us, whatever resources you have to get you through this time.<P>I wish you peace,<BR>MJ

We have been separated before. Last time for 2 years. We have been back together for 2.5 years nw. My boys are finally doing very well. He is wonderful with them. My sacrifice is for them. I can't imagine their devastation if we would separates again. I feel absolutely stuck. Everything is great between us as long as Iidon't rock the boat. He obviously doesn't want me involved ,why? Is it that obvious? I don't know!

Dear Blue,<BR>TakingCare and Mrs.Job have advised you well.<BR>What a horrible birthday! Shame on H!!!! <P>I would get on w/an attorney AND plan B. ASAP!!!!<P>Protect yourself from further involvement. Let things go the way they will. Learn to depend on us and youself. You've been through enough pain. Quit walking on eggshells for this man!!!<P>C'mon Blue....you can do it. It won't be easy. You need to live a life you can enjoy woman!!!!<P>I was way too accomodating in the beginning w/my h. It took me wanting to end all the pain to have him bow down so to speak and give me the tools I needed to heal. It's your turn Blue.<P>Prayers to you.<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....<p>[This message has been edited by gemini1 (edited June 24, 2001).]

Blue,<P>You deserve better than what he gives you, much much more. Don't let him run you down. Plan B comes in to save some love for your spouse and to prepare yourself for divorce if that is what happens. I think it also needs to be used to save yourself and your health before you are ground down to nothing. You have to be strong for your boys. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to stay married to this man who treats you with absolutely no respect. I don't want to add any more guilt to the burden you are already carrying, but do you ever wonder what lesson you are teaching your boys about marriages and how they can treat women?<P>Forgiving a spouse who has gone wayward and wants to come back to the marriage and make ammends is one thing--it teaches that we can all screw up and still be forgiven. It is a very important spiritual lesson. But...letting him continue to get away with it teaches children that there are no real consequences for hideous behavior. When it goes on long enough (and I don't quite know where the line is) keeping two women on a string becomes a form of abuse. My sister lived with a man who beat her, in fact her second husband and then the man that she lived with after her second marriage. I asked her to think very carefully about the lessons she was teaching her two sons.<P>If you can't be angry and indignant for youself, may we be angry for you? I am not kidding. If you can't dig up the fury because you are too hurt, you can borrow some of ours. It makes me nuts to see him treating you this way. <P>Please take care of yourself.<P>MJ

BlueOO:<BR>Wow, I am so sorry for the pain and devestation you are feeling. I would be real leary of anything he tells you, as it doesn't apear he has been to honest at this point. I would also be leary of what the OW tells you as she has a vested interest in your decisions. If it were me I would take the advice of the other people here and see an attorney, innitiate the separation. It will probably get his attention, and will undoubtedly give you more control in the relationship. <P>I am new to this board and new to this situation, I hope my situation doesn't progress to this point.<BR>

blue00,<P>I agree with all the advice you have received! One other bit of advice is that I noticed that you stated that you were sacraficing yourself for the boys. That they had been devistated the last time you were seperated. Well, I don't think that the situation you are living in is any better for them if you allow H to stay! In fact, it is worse, because of the tension you feel on a day to day basis. And, his statedment about taking all the kids, and you and OW just disapearing??? What is that all about? If anyone deserves to disapear, it is your H by his very actions! If he has been continuing to see OW, and is not being truthful to you, definately, wait till he shows you the numbers, then contact a lawyer!<P>Love,<P>Tigger