Iwas suffering today ,my ususal route, and I started to pray.Shout and pray. I was asking God to take all of this from me. I couldn't take it. So , a little while later I was thumbing through a book I just bought Forgiving the Unforgivable, and it came to me. I have never forgiven my H for anything major. I have habored every little last thing over the years. This oc isn't the first thing that has happened to us. Trouble started 2 years into our marriage. He isn't a serial cheater, but he has had his share of indiscretions. My point here is that every time I get upset over something, it's not just that particular incedent. It is everything that he has ever done. So every argument is about the last 13 years. I realized that until I let go of the past I can't move on and neither can our marriage. My resentment isn't obvious, but underlying and very destructive. Not only to my marriage but to myself. What kind of Christian example am I setting? No forgiveness? I eat myself up with hidden anger and I have to let it go.Even if things don't work out for us , I have to let go of the destructive past.Regardless of what my future brings ,I have to learn how to do tthis.

Also, I have to stop playing victim and using it as an excuse to stagnate. I am responsible for myself. I have had enough couneling and prayer time to know that it is up to me . Oprah said that other people make you a victim ,but we are responsible for staying victims. I think that says a lot.

blue,<BR>we have to celebrate our successes-- so<P>WOOHOO for BLUE! <P>Best wishes,<BR>J

Blue, you have come to an incredible realization. It is a tough one to come to for us when we have been so badly hurt. I didn't come to it in my marriage until it was too late. It makes me feel so GLAD when others do come to the understanding you have come to ... I hope that it helps you and your marriage.<P>Congratulations!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Blue,<P>When I was a teenager and a new Christian, a minister did a whole series of sermons on the Lord's Prayer--once sentence each week. The one about "Forgive us our debts (trespasses) as we forgive our debtors (those who have trespassed against us) really had an impact on me. I have always thought of myself as a sinner and not deserving in anyway of God's forgiveness (funny how this doesn't equate to low self-esteem). So... neither is my husband deserving of my forgiveness, but I don't want to perpetuate the cycle of ungrace. (Phillip Yancy has a wonderful book called "What's so Amazing About Grace.") A friend gave me a wonderful definition of sin--Sin is whatever keeps us from being in full relationship with God and with those with whom we are supposed to be in relationship here on earth. So as I was newly dealing with my husband's A, I decided that justified anger was not a sin, but anger that I fed and allowed to grow, or out-and-out hatred were sins for me--they interrupted my relationship with God. I would get myself into a state where I was so out of control angry that God couldn't reach me, the people who loved me couldn't reach me and I couldn't even find myself. It is how I wound up in the psychiatric ward. It was depression, but the biggest part was out of control rage that terrified me and made me feel very frightened of what I might be capable of in a rage. I almost hit my husband one day.) So whenever strong negative feelings come up I *try* to give them over to God. Trouble is I keep taking them back. and then I have to give them back again--can get to be like a tennis match. I can't tell you how many times in a single day that ball can bounce. <P>Please know however that forgiveness doesn't always equal reconciliation. We have Biblical permission to divorce when our spouses have committed adultery. I am not saying that you have to take that route, obviously, I haven't chosen it, but please don't forget that it is there and allowed. If your H isn't able to stop his behavior, you may have to avail yourself of that option. I know that I would have if things had not seriously improved. Even 10 weeks or so ago I was still considering it--until we got the OW unentangled from our lives. Also Biblically speaking, it really isn't divorce that it not permitted, it is remarriage (and I assume any physical relationship outside of the marriage, such as dating again. Except remember, we are permitted to date and remarry because of our spouse's affair.)<P>A Rev. Showalter, a minister on Cape Cod, has a great site about forgiveness and much of it has to do with EMAs. I am going to try and look up the site. If I find it, I will edit this message. I found a lot of his sermons and advice very helpful in the beginning. <P>I found the site: <A HREF="http://www.vsg.cape.com/~dougshow/webdoc3.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.vsg.cape.com/~dougshow/webdoc3.htm</A> <P>You are right that either way your marriage winds up you will benefit from mastering the art of forgiveness--for your sake and the sake of your relationship with God, if for no other reason at all.<P>I will hold you in prayer, <BR>MJ<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited June 29, 2001).]

Very good point Blue. That seems to be a reoccurring theme here also. MIne doesnt stretch back that far, but it seems like all the little fights we get in arent really about whatever it is we are fighting about. THere always seems to be an underlying argument. It is very difficult to get through...and as Mrs Job said we must learn to give to God without taking it back. I have been able to do it with some things but not with others. I have noticed something though. Whenever I say I am going to "try" to go to church in the morning I never go. I must readjust my train of though to I "am" going to church in the morning. Maybe it is the same concept.<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>bw

WOW! I feel the same way alot of times, and I struggle with my own relationship with God, because in my heart I know that He will take care of me and He has a plan for me and my life, but it is so hard for me to distinguish between me listening to God or am I listening to my own self?! I struggle with giving Him this problem because I know I have to, but I often take it upon myself thinking my way is quicker or better. I am really trying to be still and listen to what He's telling me. It sure would be nice if He'd just e-mail me or give me a call! The forgiveness issue is a hard one for me too. But I know I have to forgive just as God forgives us and He still loves us all we have to do is ask Him.....I just can't seem to get to that point completely. Only time will tell........But I do know that if I want my relationship with God to grow, I must forgive in order to move forward. Hang in there!

Dear MBM,<P>Are we twins separated at birth? My biggest struggle in my faith has always been if I am listening to God or listening to myself. I am always afraid that I can psych myself out and think that I am doing what He wants of me but I am following my own will. I am jealous of friends that say "I prayed and God told me X, Y and Z." My joke has always been that if He has something really important to tell me that he'll send a telegram or a booming voice from a burning bush. You know, something Cecil B. DeMill-ish. I don't want God to give me subtle signs of what I am supposed to do; I want a big slap upside the ole head. Forget the board in my eye Sir, just get it out so you can wap me with it.<P>I don't know why, but forgiveness has always come easily for me, that and unquestioning faith. I don't doubt, I don't think I ever have and I pray I never will. I take no credit for those two small gifts. I didn't create them; they were gifts from God. All I can do is nurture them. Forgiveness is part of the cycle of Divine Grace. I can't separate the forgiveness He has given me from the grace and peace that I am supposed to pass on (as best I can in my limited human way).<P>Now, if you look at my "torturing myself" thread you will see that I am not there yet in the adoption situation. Gotta work harder, pray more faithfully.<P>MJ