thanks to all who have offered opinions and advice. everyone has made an excellent point no matter which side of the adoption issue they stand on. i want to say that P51 you may not see yourself an amazing man but you are most definetly a man with an enormous heart and a tremendous committment to your marriage. i can honestly say that i would never go through this again if my w had a 2nd a.. there have been times when i have just considered ending our marriage and moving on with my life but i feel my children deserve more of an effort from me to preserve our home. and my w and i have 27 years of history together. the emotions of my w's physical a are painful but i feel the real hurt is from the way it seemed so easy for her to be so cold towards me. i honestly believe my w loves me but the fear that she could possibly turn cold agin is very real to me. also it hurts me to know she is carrying anothers child. i realize it is also her child but it is not mine. Still trying i have tosay that i feel you (and this is not meant to trivialize the pains you have been through) were in a strange way lucky to find out about your oc after birth. what a blessing it would be to me to be able to rub my w's tommy, talk to her daughter, and listen & feel her moving in her womb without any knowledge of her mistake. i would have already bonded with this child. in my case i knew from the beginning it was not my child. and in fact on d-day my w told me it was from a one night stand and she would never see the father again. i offered her at that time that i would adopt this baby and raise it as my own. she turned me down saying what if the om wants to be part of childs life. i found out later they had discussed this at work. so i moved my position to one of cs. anyway now Just learning hit on alot of true facts for me. on my selffish side i was looking forward to spending more time with my w as we were just getting to the point where we could leave the kids and go away for a weekend or a night here and there. we were going to diner and a movie on a regular basis also. now we have another 6 yrs. or so before that will happen again. we are in good health now but who knows what the future holds. i am concerned that i will be close to 70 when this child grads from h.s.. we are not poor by any means but we live very close to the line financialy. shoes for 4 school kids are expnsive. my w stayed home and did child care because of the expense of placing our kids in c.c.. it didn't seem worth the money for her to work outside the home and pay 1/2 her income for babysitting ($125 per week for about 6 yrs = $37500). i can feel myself getting close to burn out with my own children and their activities let alone an oc (20 years of coaching little league alone plus soccer and football). and what is the can of worms if bio father is involved. he pays his cs which covers day care so my w can work. he is not a violent person in fact from reading most all the posts on this forum the bs doesn't want her h involved with c anyway. they just want them to pay their cs and stay away from child. this om is a snake anyway. he doesn't want to be involved all he wants is for my w to take this on herself and leave him alone. i say he needs to take responsibility for his actions and support his daughter. i am quite aware and have considered the fact that the man that nearly took my w from me may be at my door step every other friday night. but i feel i am the type of person that will make a much bigger inpact on oc in 12 days compared to his 2 days. and i honestly believe that will be my revenge on him if any. that i will be able to show his child more love then he can and that in itself will cause him to stop coming around. if he had the character to be involved he would have stood up and made it known. the least he would have done is asked my w how she was feeling or how was her marriage going when she ran into him the other day. instead he gave her a lok of distain and ignored her. w's told me as i was not there. yes om lives in the same town and there is a good chance of running into him from time to time. my last concern is that i want to move on with our marriage as quickly as possible. i have had freind that have survived a's and they have told me that it has taken in some cases as long as 10 yrs. that is a very hard ay to move into retirement age in my opinion. i believe that from "my" point of view adoption is the fastest and most practical way for us to move forward with our marriage. i hope you can make sense of my rambling.

Pops thanks for another point of view. Everyone has to conclude this delicate matter in the best way for themselves to get moving on. WS should take into consideration all of our sorrow and pain and the ending should be amicabile for both if the marriage is to survive.<p>Now I feel much like you. I have evolved from thinking visits could work to never wanting to do them.
A lot of my reasons are things you've said. H and I are approaching our 28th anniversary. I don't want a little child on weekends anymore. I am selfish in wanting to spend them w/H doing whatever we want whenever we want as we did before raising a family.<p>Ow is still married and baby has her h last name. I don't think he wants my H involved either. I don't know how their marriage is. They have 3 little ones together. I hope we can just go forward w/o being involved w/each other ever again. Ow is seeking support, we haven't come to an agreement yet through lawyers. I do think her H is now included in the reasons she is asking for it....actually both of them for different reasons want H to pay.<p>It's a horrible stain on our marriage for sure.<p>An A is bad enough. As for H turning "cold" again, I don't see it happening here. He has made a complete turn around in this past year. I am back to stay. He is too. He fought hard after a while to allow him another chance. I thought what the heck? Let him knock himself out.....he has!<p>Please keep us updated.<p>As far as bonding w/child....I sympathize with your feelings. Ow's H fled to Fla. when ow threw him out and kept pregnancy....he was humiliated to say the least....he is home after a year away but we are not sure if he's staying w/her or not. I have seen them and oc and their 3 kids around town together. Maybe ow kept married name because her h wanted baby to have same family name? I just do not know. He does hold baby in places as friends have told me...so maybe he's bonding now.<p>Geeze have I gone on and on. It's just that hearing from the other side is a learning experience for me. Watching my H grow w/om baby would be very hard to do.(I KnOW men can't have kids...it's a thought to how hard it would be).<p>love
Debi

Pops's<p>I can understand why you feel the way you do. If I'm correct it sort of like if you wanted to play you have to pay. I know your wife just wants OM to disappear but he has an obligation and should be forced to take care of that obligation. <p>My H pays CS exOW claimed she didn't want any but as soon as she realized I might give H a second chance all of that ended. Even though this situation is painful, I do believe H should pay for not caring enough to protect us from this situation. He played the game now he has to pay for his mistake, I harbor no ill feelings towards OC she's innocent but it does hurt to look at her. We don't have contact right now becasue exOW is sort of the fatal attraction. Does that bother my H? Yes, it does he doesn't express it but I can tell. It used to bother me too but I decided I didn't ask for this situation so I washed my hands of it. <p>I know that I am rambling I just wanted you to know I can understand where you are coming from.
Good luck!<p>
Unsure

Pops,<p>I hope that you don't feel as if I have been trying to get you to do what my H has done. I was just sharing my opinion, and my experience with this situation.<p>When I said that having xOM involved w/C, it was because there is a possibility of him trying to reak havoc with your M. If he pays CS, then he also has a right to be involved in C's life, and that is what I was saying about the can of worms. In our situation, the xOM is also a snake, and a violent one at that. Something that never unserficed till D-day, when he assaulted my H, and then basically stalked me and my family.<p>You both need to do what is best for your M. I also understand the feeling of the age you will be when she is graduating from HS.<p>There is no right answer to any of these situations, as they are all unique to each M.<p>When I share my story, it is to provide those in our similar situation one side of the story.<p>I hope that you and your W can come to a decision, together, that will benefit everyone in your family.<p>Tigger

again i want to thank all of you for sharing your individual experiences with us. i have taken no offense or felt any so called pressure to follow anyones perticular view point. i would also like to thank all of you w's of wh's who have expressed your concern and care for my w. again i know she is deeply rmorseful and full of tremendous guilt over her lack of judgement this past spring. thank you all.
i don't know why but early this morning things became very clear tome as to where i would like things to go for my w and myself. this may sound like a complete turn around for me but i don't think so really. 1st and formost i still feel like adoption would be the best solution for us for all the reasons i have mentioned in the my past posts here. i told my w this is how i feel this morning along with the following. i feel that this who;e thing is strickly a moral issue. obviously adultery is immoral and i feel this is why God provided it as the only excuse to divorce a spouse. because of the tremendous pain and anguish it leaves on the bs. but this does not mean that one must divorce a ws after an a.. now to the pregnancy part. if this shouldoccur through an a then there are several courses the woman can take. 1-abortion, if this is not an option for her then it is no one elses moral right to try and force her into one. 2-adoption, this option is should be viewed along the same lines as the 1st. now a spouse can certainly feel free to voice their opinion as to how they feel each of these two choices would best effect their marriage for themselves. but it is still the woman's decision as to which of these paths she chooses. she must however be prepared to except her h's choice of whether to stay in the marriage. now for the last decision and that is to keep the c and raise in your home together. and PLEASE this is just MY view on this. I feel that the h needs to stand up and face the trueths of this issue head-on. and I see them as this; !- there is no way this child will ever be yours biologically. 2- the only way you can really become this childs father is to step up and legally adopt the child. 3- and i know this one may cause an uprising of tempers out there but I don't feel it is anyones moral right to deny a child a chance to know his bio parents because it will make their own personal marriage reconciliation easier, myself included. that is the reason i let Full house know my feelings this morning. if she wants to raise the c in OUR homethen i feel thec's father should have the right to get to know his daughter should he choose. but he has a moral obligation to step forward and if he chooses not to become part of the c's life then at least provide for that child financialy. he has no idea whether the woman's marriage will work or not and that c needs all it can get to have the best chance in life. this means there are some very hard facts to face. 1-if he chooses to see c then i have to be able to stand up and face the person who nearly destroyed my marriage.2-my w has to stand up and face the fact that her c may have to spend some time away from her to be with c's father. 3-i will treat and love this c as if she were my own. now i am the kind of man who feels quite confident that i will be capable of making more of an impact on this child in my time with her then her bio father. also i feel that this snake doesn't have the balls to stick it out for the long haul. sorry for being so discript. i also told my w that i know she loves this c but that right now i do not. i haven't had a chance to know her yet. i hate what happened and hate her carrying this c but i will support her in whatever ways she chooses. and i let her know which way i felt is best for us. now it has to be her choice . i also let her know that i still do love her and that i will try as hard i possibly can. i have made all these choices in my decision making by trying to step back and look at things logically without emotions. i feel that together we can make it through this like we have made it through 27 yrs (22 married) together. i promised to love this c no less then she loved my 28 yr old (he was concieved a couple of months before i met my w). she stood beside me through some hard times with his mother and i will stand beside her through her hard times with this matter. i know she has some very difficult decisions to make in the next week or 2. i am hoping that she will feel up to posting soon to let you know how she is doing.

Pops,<p>I think you have left out one other option. That option is that the OM raise the child within his family. I believe I read that he was married and therefore, it is possible that this is the fourth option.<p>I am not advocating this option. I just offer it for completeness. I believe I am reading that you are leaning toward trying to make the marriage work along with the OM paying CS. If this is indeed your choice then I hope that you and your W are blessed with the guidance and grace to carry it out in a way that brings both of you happiness.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Praying for the wisdom and discernment for you and your W in the decisions you have to make.
Hope it all works out for you.
Hugs to you both,
Twiisty

Pops I agree with your approach. I believe the other man should pay, and I would'n worry much about his involvement with family. I don't think it will amount to much in the long run, but the money will mean a lot. I have no doubt that you have the love and know yourself well enough to be able to provide a good home to the little girl. God bless

joell, thank you for your support. i can't help but think that this snake doesn't have what it takes to stick it out for the long haul. he has to much macheesemo. in fact i would bet you a dollar to a donut that he is the type that will run back to his homeland leaving his w to fend for herself and her kids.

Pops, You said, &#8220;the fear she could possibly turn cold again is very real to me&#8221;. I understand that completely. I&#8217;m faced with that too, as my wife has been extremely ugly to me at times during the last six months. <p>I don&#8217;t know if you were referring to me or not when you said, &#8220;you were in a strange way lucky to find out about your oc after birth&#8221;, but my wife&#8217;s OC is not born. She is about 14 weeks. And just beginning to show a little. This past weekend I got close to her and put my hand on her belly and rubbed it gently. Why? I don&#8217;t know exactly. She tried to hide from me at first, pulling her shirt down and turning her head away from me. But I gently pursued. I know this child is innocent. And this IS my wife. And I DO love her. I wanted to somehow comfort her and in a sense give her a feeling of acceptance. I also wanted to conquer the recognition of this child for myself. I wanted to face the reality of it first hand. I wanted to give the baby some affection. (Whether he/she knew it or not!). <p>Concerning child support I think Tigger shared some wise words when she said, &#8221;there is no right answer to any of these situations, as they are all unique to each marriage.&#8221; Tigger is a wise woman.<p>For me, If I reconcile with my wife, I want absolutely nothing to do with the other being (I have a hard time calling him a man!) at all. I don&#8217;t want his support, and I don&#8217;t want him to have anything to do with my family. Period. If reconciliation occurs, this child will be mine. As far as I&#8217;m concerned it is now, because my wife is carrying the child and she is MY WIFE!! He had no business being a part of her life and I feel morally, and ethically, that he has no rights to this child as long as reconciliation is a possibility. #$^%&%^ HIM!!! Whew. Sorry. That&#8217;s really not me, but it sure felt good! I&#8217;m getting wound up. This being has a criminal record a mile long and I believe child support would be more of a struggle and hassle than it would ever be worth. I don&#8217;t want anything to do with him. <p>As I look back, I realize I&#8217;m not exactly myself today. I believe what I&#8217;ve stated, though. I&#8217;m going to post a new post when I have time, because my wife has officially made it clear to me know that she has been terribly wrong and wants to reconcile if I would be willing to have her back. Long story&#8230;.

Hi P51 name of a great ww2 aeroplane. don't take my observations as a flame. only meant to give you a broader prespective. you said she is your wife? even though she is carrying his child. he made her his wife too, when she gave herself to him. to some extent she will always be his wife. almost like being a morman except multiple husbands instead of more than one wife. he is a criminal? when your wife disrespected you she really went into the sewer dids she? something you may not be aware of , but genetics plays a big role in peoples behavior. many children take back after biological parents in spite of excellent family situations. if child takes back after father your experience as a step dad could be a real roller coster ride. you seem like a wonderful person and I know you deserve better than what you have been given. your life is living proof that God doesn't protect us. God neither leads us into disaster or out of it. We are on our own and our life is in our hands. otherwise we can blame all shortcomings and misfortunes on God and forgo all responsibility. If you wife truly is willing to make amends she will dance to your tune. Maybe as a test tell her that in order to reconcile she will have to give up child. Now Im not saying I could do that. I suspect I too, would keep child, but I would test wife with this in order to find out how serious she is. at last moment I probably would keep the child. But, sometimes adoption is the best thing one can do for a child. However, it is harder to do than to raise the child I think. The child is innocent and as all will agree deserves the best the world can give it. God bless you p51

p51 and joell, nice to talk to you guys. p51 i must tell you that the fear of my w turning cold is not 100% of the time. but several times a week something reminds me of spring 2001 and the anquish returns. to get through it i try to talk of different things and then i discuss it with my w. i was referring i believe to stilltrying when i mentioned about finding out months after delivery. i completely understand your anger and disgust with os(snake) i have felt the same way many times and have had some very unattractive ideas of what should be done to him. these thoughts make me pray for forgiveness as they are usually very violent. the thing is i feel no remorse for them it's just that i don't wish to be that type of person. i relate it to the world situation in afganistan no one feels pity for any of the taliban. as many have said here cs is a very personal matter as is adoption. i personally fel adoption is my #1 choice and if not cs is a manditory. in my case my w does not want to persue cs, it is me. i feel very lucky as i think you are between a rock and a hard place. i believe you must truely love your w but you must have such fears as to the repetitiveness of her actions. i feel very lucky in again a strange way that this was my w's first and i believe last a.
i wish you all the luck with you life and remember one thing to make sure that you take care of yourself now and it wouldn't hurt to take some of her remorse with a grain of salt. again i don't mean anything negative it's just that you seem to have been bending over backwards for so long just to be let down over and over. good luck to you. i check in on this site often and am quite diappointed in some of the hostile verbage that ha s been used lately. much of which has been directed towards my w.
joell i am not trying to be critical or attack you here but i find that now is not the time to be playing games and testing people. to press for adoption and at the last minute change your mind seems a cruel thing to do to a woman. even one who hurt you in this terrible way. sorry just me. i have told my w how i feel and now it is her decision which path to take. after which i will make my decision on which path i will take either to stay or go. again i am not the game playing or testing type i am more outspoken and direct and let the chips fall where they may.

Dear pops,<p>I was deeply moved by something you wrote:<p>i find that now is not the time to be playing games and testing people. to press for adoption and at the last minute change your mind seems a cruel thing to do to a woman. even one who hurt you in this terrible way<p>I can imagine how much pain and resentment you must be feeling right now, and despite all of it you write with such integrity and compassion.<p>And precisely because these qualities seem to reflect your deepest self, I want to bring up one other thing you wrote, that feels wrong to me:<p>my w has to stand up and face the fact that her c may have to spend some time away from her to be with c's father. i will treat and love this c as if she were my own. now i am the kind of man who feels quite confident that i will be capable of making more of an impact on this child in my time with her then her bio father. also i feel that this snake doesn't have the balls to stick it out for the long haul.<p>To me, this sounds very much as if you are considering playing a game with the child, a game of who is the best father? And you might very well win such a game. But this is a child's life, and the real loser in any competition would probably be your future daughter. Her childhood will be difficult enough without being caught in a situation with confusing boundaries and divided loyalties.<p>I understand how much you must hate the other man. In my case, the other man had been a very close friend, and the hatred I feel for him at times is so intense that it is burden I would love to set down. At other times, I feel extremely sorry for him, and for the mess he has made of his life. However, I have tried to conduct myself with dignity in the few situations in which I had to deal with him. There is really little he could do to make this better, and I have not even contacted him to ask for an apology. Having him out of our lives is the best possible situation for me.<p>I will raise a question that I think you need to consider. Your letters indicate that you will consider it very deeply, and find your own true path:<p>When your new daughter grows into a young woman, and struggles with who she is and what her life means, and who her father is, what will you say to her?<p>There are many different answers you might give. When I picture the same conversation with my son, I imagine telling him that I have always been his father, and that I have loved him for who he is since the first time I held him in my arms. That when I found out about his biological father, I wanted no money, no compensation, but just the chance to share my life with my son, as I do with my other children. At that point I would guess he might want to contact the other man; many children need to search for their biological parents. And I will not stand in his way. He has to choose his own path. But I will always be there supporting him, just as my own parents have supported me through these past few years.<p>I don't know if we will ever have a talk like that. He is such a little kid now, precious and needy and glowing with life and energy. I love children very much, and some of my happiest moments each day come when I can let all responsibility go and just run around and play hide-and-seek or chase or airplanes with him, and listen to his laughter.<p>You are in a very tough situation. I understand why you favor adoption, and I respect the willingness you show to listen to your wife's needs, and let her choose. But if she does want to keep the child, please consider very carefully what you do, because at that point it is the child's life that is being decided, not just your future and your wifes.<p>I wish you well,<p>StillTrying

stilltrying, the statement you refered to and asked if that is not playing games with a child was probably worded wrongly. i would never use a child to get even with anyone. i value all of them to much. i have 7 and one of the problems that arose in my marriage was that i spent to much time away from home. coaching various baseball, softball, soccer, and football teams with my kids because i enjoyed not only my own but trying to make some kind of possitive influence on all the kids who i was fortunate to be invlved with. if my wife chooses to keep this child and we work our way through the adult garbage i would love this girl as she was my own. and if i couldn't do that i would leave the marriage. no child needs to feel unwanted. i made that statement as to my past experiences with my oldest son. although his mother tried to make me miserable and get him to dislike me, my continued love, encouragement, support and being there when he needed someone eventually won his deepest respect. we are very close now and have been for many years, he's 28 12/24/01 and i am very proud of the man he has grown into. he has shared with me that although he loves his mother dearly he was and is hurt by the things she tried to do. this is not a battle won by me as there are no winners in these situations, only losers. if you look back at all the crappy times caused by bitterness you realize how much precious time in our short lives was lost to adult garbage. i would just gain a personal satisfaction if i knew i could cause him a small amount of grief. and i know that this vengence and is not good to carry inside of me and that it only hurts myself. i am trying to put it aside but it is just hard right now.
in answer to your second question as to when this child grows up and stuggles to find who she is. i would hope that if she grew up in my house with the love and kindness i am able to share the quetion of who she is would not arise as she would already know.