>>>why is it that the woman should suffer and the man and his family should go on like nothing ever happened>>>><p>The answer is because YOU , not him, not he and you, not you he and his wife , just YOU, made the choice to carry the pregnancy to term and to keep the child. Now you complain and whine because you must live with the consequences of your decisions. You, as a woman, had all the choices. And you made yours. What would his choice have been ?<p>Jtigger

i must say that i understand about all the anger and frustration in a system that is unfair and unjust towards the bs under the presumption of protecting the innocent child. i to paid served an 18 yr sentence for a child that was conceived in an attempt to force marriage. don't get me wrong Jesse has proven to be a true blessing in my life although he was not wanted at the time of conception by myself. several have spoken here about the system that was started or good and has gotten way out of control. agreeed. catnip you are a very gifted person with the way you put things in such great perspective. i agre whole heartedly with what you have advocated here. let me set the record straight as to my feelings in this matter. I BELIEVE THAT IN SITUATIONS SUCH AS MINE ND FH'S THAT ADOPTION IS THE MOST REASONIBLE
SOLUTION TO THE SITUATION,PERIOD. I FEEL THIS IS THE BEST FOR ALL INVOLVED INCLUDING MY W, KIDS, EXTENDED FAMILIES AND MYSELF. BUT FOR ME, IF MY W CAN NOT GO THROUGH WITH THAT PATH I HAVE TO CHOOSE WHETHER TO STAY MARRIED OR DIVORCE HER. SINCE I HAVE 6 CHILDREN WITH HER AND 22 YEARS OF HITORY I AM CHOOSING TO TRY AND STICK IT OUT. PLEASE NOTE THE WORD "TRY". THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES. TO DO THIS I FEEL THAT CS IS A MUST FOR ME. I DO NOT FEEL THAT I SHOULD PAY THE FULL FINANCIAL BURDEN OF THIS C BECAUSE THIS TURD WANTED TO BANG MY WIFE. all i am asking for is enough $ to hopefully pay for child care so my w can go back to work. that said let me tell you my w DOES NOT want him to be involved at all but I am insisting so this does not effect my children to much financially. this guy is a bus driver for crying out loud, i am not going to retire off his cs to my w. i drive a old 1972 pick-up for work as i can not afford payments on a newer vehicle. i must also do most all repairs myself to save costs. I hate this snake with a passion as he knew how fearful i was that my w was drifting from our marriage. he went as far as to befriend my 19 yr old son to get closer to his mom. when my w told him she could not abort he told her he was proud of her. so if nothing else what does this a$$ deserve but cs. and again this is only what i feel is best for US to have a chance at surviving. i have told my wife that just as catnip and her h divorced we will most likely do the same if she keeps this c just to make sure that my income and assets are not effected by any court rulings. i feel a need now to protect myself and my assets from her possible poor decisions for the first time in my life. not a real good feeling. i am NOT excusing my w for her part in this situation. twisty you are right, they are BOTH at fault. and yes tigger SHE is the one who will make the choice to keep or adopt and i am the one who will make the choice to try and reconcile further or not. i am very curious if "otherchild" had been put up for adoption, was raised with two loving adoptive parents who would have told her history (about adoption) to her, thenloked up her mother when she was older and found out that she was placed for adoption so mother could save her marriage and still give her daughter a decent chance at a good life, would she feel resentment towards her bio mother. fh and i are sorry and wish to extend our appoligies to any of you who have been offended by our comments. there was really no intent to offend any of you. to all bs i believe that the LORD speaks to us through our eyes and all you have to do is look into a persons eyes and you will be able to see into their heart. i believe my father who passed away january 2001 taught me many things through his eyes anger, love, resentment, compasssion, joy, happiness, contentment and on and on. i wish i could look into the eyes of each and everyone of you and see where your hearts are.
i don't believe any one who has come here has done so to lie or deceive any one else, just to look for some helpful advice and comfort with a very world shattering situation for all of us. not to get off the subject but maybe we should all start standing up for morality in general to help fight a world that has become so permissive that this type of thing is running rampant. again not to trivialize what we are going through but that means every day things including what movies we allow our kids to watch and what products we endorse for there advertising. the world can change but we need to take the first step. sorry just a side note.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
[QB]She can never make up to you for the pain you suffered. So what to do with all the unresolved parts? The fragments? QB]<hr></blockquote><p>This is true. But, I am not looking for an apology or for her to minister to my wounds, grovel for forgiveness or coddle or burp me. I want financial relief.<p>I struggle with the turn the other cheek thing and leaving her to her karma and just letting it go. And I could do this if she did not receive so much of our money that causes me so much discomfort. But because she has been so aggressive and relentless trying to take all the things most precious to me, starting with my marital exclusivity, the ability to have a child only I am entitled to have (whether or not I can is immaterial) and then adding insult to injury by stealing extraordinary amounts of our money...all these issues remain unresolved until I can get her huge a$$ in court. And I make no apologies for it. In fact, I am going with the scriptual teaching that the Lord helps those who help themselves.<p>If I rest on my laurels and do nothing, waiting for divine intervention, I will continue to wait while standing in the soup line at the mission. Well, I don't believe that a merciful God would want me to live like that and expects me to use the passion, talents, skills and intellect he bestowed on me to ...perhaps...be a catalyst for change in our system???? Dare I be so arrogant to think I might be able to make a small difference no matter how squeaky small?<p>I thought after three years I would be more complacent about all this but I find my flame is just being stoked into a bonfire as time goes on.
The 'fragments' are not small chards of broken glass but an ever present slicing and dicing that impacts my very existance on a weekly basis and makes this Princess very uncomfortable. I just want what is fair BTDT. I will never apologize for my point of view or my feelings and as far as abuse, physical or otherwise, I have had both in my childhood at the hands of a stepmother and an aunt as well, and an XH who mistreated me. I have leanred to let that go...but, this OW thing is much, much different. It was an invasion of the worst kind causing the nightmare to continue for another 16 years. I have bitten into this and will not let go of until there has been an adjustment of arrears and monthly support...a measure of justice.<p>I can't and won't deny the damage is done and my husband is responsible for every bit of this. And I can live with that because of what we have accomplished in our tumultuous recovery process, but in the process of all of this, there has to be some fair and equitable resolution to all this and it won't happen unless I do something to make it happen.<p>Oh, thanks for the 'hosing down'...it is the paws, er, pause that refreshes. Thanks, I needed that.<p>Catnip =^^=

There is a much simpler way to avoid these situations....for people to not have sex outside marriage, when pregnancy would pose a problem - period! It would also help to use birth control since there are many available. While none are 100% effective they are close. To have an affair with someone and to knowingly risk pregnancy....I think you get exactly what you deserve. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? The H CHOSE to have sex - end of sentence. If they believed the OW was on birth control - shame on them! They should have protected themselves! Especially if the OW "meant nothing etc etc etc" They should have known she was lying. THESE are the consequences!

Oh, please, BonnieBB, we are all too familiar with your moralizing on this topic but it is much too complex for your glib sound bites. Try to delve deeper into the complexities before you post your redundant opinion. It ain't about the cart before the horse thing right now.<p>Catnip =^^=

[<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by catnip:
<strong><p>Bravo, Pops. You and I are about the same age, and at this age and stage it is imperative we secure what we can. Just in case things do not work out between you and your wife (and I certainly hope that they do) you still need to protect yourself from the presumption of paternity so if things do not work out, you are not stuck with paying for this OC in your dottage (sp?)<p>Your wife, FH, is deeply committed to restoration of the marriage. I could tell in her last post that she is completely devastated and remorseful and wants to make things right. This could be a new page in your marriage of greater understanding and love between the two of you...in fact, in some ways, believe it or not, when you have truly forgiven her a kind of depth you have never known before will become part of your marriage. It has for me and for my H, in spite of his sadness and regret, we laugh more, are kinder more often, more tolerant of each other and he has been growing into a more humble and grateful man. It is so attractive to me...the arrogance is gone and he is satisfied with life, with me, with our family and doesn't feel like he is missing anything anymore....I don't know if it is the medication or God or a combination of the two. Probably is...but, I know if you two can get through this, there are better days ahead.<p>Never apologize for your feelings about the OM...you are entitled. Just don't let it spill onto your wife or your marriage. Vent it here. She will come here and read your feelings objectively if she wants to and gain a better understanding of the entire journey from where you two were and where you are going.<p>We offer each other support and work very hard at not being judgmental, although occasionally we might say something we shouldn't because of our own pain or point of view. There are a couple people here who like to moralize endlessly about something we all already know and acknowledge and they don't seem to understand that this site is not about pontificating about what should have or have not happened prior to the affair, fling or one night stand. In fact, it is pointless and stupid to go on and on about how they should have kept it in their pants or some other idiotic drivel. We all already know that but that does not help todays issues, complaints, pain or need for solace and guidance.<p>At MB, the entire point of this site is to save our marriages and to learn to repair the damage, heal our souls and find ways for greater understanding and kindnesses and to help the people struggling with their painful and shocking discoveries. To find forgiveness in our hearts, to find justice with the system and to preserve our families.<p>We are all weak human beings, flawed and sometimes evil and wicked. I know I am greatly flawed, have many weaknesses (cashews and caramels) have a few vices (occasional smoking) and I cry shoulder shaking sobs at movies embarrassing my friends. I can be mean as a snake and merciless to anyone who hurts someone I love, I can be resentful and snotty. I even toyed with the idea to cheat on my husband a few years ago with an old boyfriend when I felt neglected and unloved. Thank God I was strong enough to resist. But it can happen to any of us.<p>You sound like a real stand up guy, Pops, and you have my respect. Nothing you have said, and nothing FH has said has been offensive in the least. Never worry about offedning anyone...everyone is entitled to feel and say what they think here...no censuring. It is your situation, your point of view and only you know all the complexities and drama behind all of it. None of us knows the depth of each other's lives or relationships so to give you a hard time for your choices presumes too much. I only encourage adoption because it is a clean way for all involved, especially the two innocents...the child and the betrayed spouse. It does clean the slate.<p>As for the child coming to you later and finding out they were 'sacrificed' to save your marriage; it is only a matter of point of view. Also, you are projecting into the future to something that may never happen, and even if it did, what are the odds the child might come to you and thank the two of you for giving him or her an opportunity to live with such a marvelous and loving couple who doted on them and gave them exciting life of opportunities and advantages, not to mention a life filled with love and closeness. That's exactly what my son did when he found me...thanked me for letting him go to his parents. As far as trying to protect them from the bad aspects of adoption, the feeling of not being wanted, you can explain you were protecting he/she from the concerns surrounding the birth and the stigma, the complications, the hardships he/she might endure being born under such cisrcumstances...a myriad of reasons. Anyone can understand these issues...and that adoption is a supremely unselfish and loving thing is something most of us 'get'.<p>If you and your wife decide on keeping the child, protecting yourself from any financial repercussions may greatly enhance your affection for this child if you don't feel any resentment...with the fear factor and pressure off. <p>Well, I'm done playing armchair psychologist. At least I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.<p>Catnip =^^=<p>PS If you have a faux divorce, no one has to know except the courts and you can remarry in a few months after you have both singed a prenup...and best of all, nothing has to outwardly change between the two of you, the divorce will be cheap because it is uncontested and it's kind of fun to be dating each other and for us, we have weekend sleep overs because he lives three blocks away with our son and I live with a girlfriend. It is really kind of fun and exciting for us when we see each other and have our weekend sleep overs. Meow</strong><hr></blockquote>

OH Catnip. Why so angry and bitter all the time? Is it because you hate that someone else has an opinion and you know it actually makes sense??? Why don't you stop trying to make it all so complicated. It's so boring. Why not try boiling it down to the simple facts - H willingly had intercourse, got OW pregnant, child exists, H must pay. END OF STORY. It might make your anger a little easier to handle if you look at the facts and stop trying to make it so complicated and hard to understand. It might soften you a little. This blame game is soooooo exhausting.

BonnieBB<p>Everything you say is true...again. Our spouse DID do these things. Again, we all know this is your point of view and that's good, and that's OK. I am just reiterating that it doesn't matter. The blaming the spouse is not the purpose of the site and I know you know this. Rebuilding the marriage is all that matters.<p>My posts or threads are meant only for those you want my opinion, and probably most do not which is fine. I blather on and on for myself; to vent, to consider, to find solutions to give advice-whether or not it is helpful...the jury is still out on this. <p>Regardless, I wish you well and your crusade. I didn't mean to be so crabby with you but we have already heard this from you adinfinitum and I just don't want members or newbies to focus on the horror the WS's committed and try to focus on solutions. Besides, I like blaming the OW...it's fun and makes me feel better to shift the misery to her after all she has gotten from me.<p>BB...none of us can help feeling bitter occasionally and we are absolutely entitled and it is a process. I (as do the rest of us) occasionally feel resentment and bitterenss towards our spouses but that's, (like I explained earlier) is personal and part of the daily drama we all have to go through. Sometimes we share it here and sometimes we don't.<p>Honey, it's OK to feel bitterness and to blame occasionally. Doing this we can eventually find our way. You, after all, are bitter against your spouse...and entitled. But, you too, must find a way to resolve this or make yourself crazy.<p>I believe it is part of the healing process to vent about the OP as long as we don't constantly hang onto it. In fact, I felt nothing about her for several months recently and focused on what a jerk my husband was and posted about that. It's a cyclical thing, you know. We just don't need to beat that old dead horse constantly about keeping in the shorts. Who cares? The damage is done. Time for you and everyone to move on and find solutions. If we bore you here or if I bore you, there are other sites that may be more suitable for your mindset.<p>Wishing you kindnesses, tolerance, God's guidance and love. <p>Love<p>Catnip =^^= [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: catnip ]<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

What makes him less responsible is that he had less choices. His choices were, 1. To have sex(with protection). Now let's see, her choices were, 1. To have sex. 2. To go through with the pregnancy. 3. To keep the child. 4. To sue for child support. The choices for me and my two children, none!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes h must pay...true, but it still SUCKS!!!! very educated response,eh.

Catnip
HOnestly, I think you are in HUGE denial. You are RIGHT, the courts DON'T care about you, how you suffered, about your H "illness" or anything else about you. It's not why they are there. The point is to do what's right by the child. And your hilarious comment about the law suit against OW is too much - give me a break - she didn't ruin your life, your H did and if you CHOOSE to stay with him, you CHOSE to accept all that comes with it. STOP with the excuses for your H, "he was ill" PLEASE! Anything to pass the blame. What the hell was he doing having an affair? Did this "illness" prevent him from knowing he was cheating on you? Did it prevent him from putting protection on? Be real! She didn't ruin your life, HE DID and you just don't want to face that.

BB<p>I wish I were in denial...it would make things a lot easier. But the raw truth of it all is that I gutted myself to the OW and begged her to help me by bowing out of the affair that had just started. I was lucky in the sense that I found out about the affair almost instantaneously and knew her name, address and phone number. My husband's personality changed so dramatically within the few months preceding the affair, I was stunned. I didn't know what to do, I didn't know how to reach him, I couldn't understand the weird behavior. He extorted money from our business to buy clothes, something he would never have done during the preceding 18 years, began drinking again after 18 years of sobriety ( a quart of vodka a day...plus) living high with restaurants, travel, new friends...you know the drill.<p>I don't expect you to understand my alarm or my horror at watching my husband turn from a kind and loving man into a snarling cruel ogre, but he did. It happened so fast without warning and I was ill prepared to help him, to reach him. He also spent our savings on classic vehicles (six of them to the tune of $60,000), purchased nearly $90,000 collection of rare firearms and would be so cold and hateful to everyone in our family. <p>When he embarked on his three weekend fling, I called OW and pleaded with her to back off, explained my husband was behaving completely out of character and asked her to allow me the opportunity to try to help him get help because his behavior was so outrageous and he was ovbviously a sick man. I wish I could explain to you the drastic personality change but there are no words to describe it. He just wasn't himself anymore and everyone saw it. Our kids would come over and stand speechless looking at each other while he would inappropriately laugh hysterically, or say hurtful and devastating things. We knew he had lost it.<p>The OW had the same lack of understanding and heartlessness. She snarled at my openness and desperation by telling me "You're just jealous. If you call me again I am going to kick your [censored]." I stood there staring at the phone in stunned disbelief anyone could be so incredbly heartless. To me, this was a matter of life and death. This was profoundly serious and she was talking to me like a seventh grader who was trying to steal my boyfriend in study hall. This was my marriage, this was my life and this was my husband who I was deeply in love with with whom I shared my history with. We had been so close, so involved and now, suddenly, he had become someone else. I almost laughed at what she said because it showed the quality of the OW was so sorely lacking. If he didn't choose someone as good or better then he really was off his rocker to go slumming like this with someone so coarse and without conscience.<p>When my husband came home all beaten down after having what he calls his "moment of clarity" begging for help, I took him to a treament center where I crowed, like you, about personal responsibility. Every one of the counselors and staff at Hazelden assured me that this never would have happened if my husband would not have started drinking again after 18 years of sobriety...that he was bipolar anyway and the alcohol just exacerbated it and magnified it to enormous proportions. I vascillated between wanting to believe them and struggling with the perosnal responsiblity issue which I have a tough time with, even today. <p>At any rate, the damage had been done, he had done all these outrageous and terrible things and he is still recovering from his illness. In the last three years he has not gone more than four months without falling off the wagon. Sobriety has become tougher and tougher for him to do, however, he is determined and hopeful, remorseful and taking his mega dose of Neurontin, 8 pills a day, evey day without fail, which keeps him from doing bizarre and outlandish things. He is like a beaten puppy and it kills me to see this man so destroyed by what he has done...and what it has done to me and to our family and friends, our business, our home. He says, "How would you like to be me and know you did all this damage and try to live with it?" I tell you, BB, it would even break your heart.<p>I understand some people have limited intellegence just cannot fathom the profound destruction that unbalanced brain chemistry can visit onto a family...or the horrors. It is easier to stay in a black and white mind set and refuse to look at the grey or be charitable or to keep themselves from inflicting further pain by describing how they should have kept it in their pants...yada, yada, yada. We all know this. It's been acknowledged. The only place to go from here is to find solutions.<p>I realize that explaining things to you in detail may be like throwing pearls before swine and some people just cannot grasp the horror and inability to control a run away train, but that's the truth, Kiddo. These things and more happen to us during a six week period in late 1998, out of the blue after 18 years of harmony and I only wish I could be in denial about all this and poke my head in the sand and pretend like it didn't happen or that there was a one size fits all explanation for it like you propose. But it is far more complicated than you can imagine.<p>Whether I wasted my breath with you is immaterial, BB. I wanted to give you the courtesy to explain things as they happened, even if you refuse to reciprocate, because you are entitled to your opinion, even if I do not agree with it. I shouldn't have been mean to you but I get so tired of you telling people the obvious which is not why we are here and I don't want you to turn off any newbies or hurt anyone who is fragile and trying to find their way. <p>I still wish you all good things, BB, and I pray God will soften your heart and grant you compassion adn understanding and open your mind and your heart.<p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: catnip ]<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

When your H CHOSE to start drinking, he chose to alter his personality. I am ALL too familiar with alcoholism having lost a young family member of it recently. Why would he begin drinking after so many years sober? And the bipolar thing also does not make him "not responsible" I AGREE the OW should have backed off, but what is the point? Her not backing off is not the reason for all of this, your husband's problems and lack of responsibility for his problems IS the issue. And furthermore, I'm sorry, but I do not feel too badly for you knowing you stayed married to him despite all the other things he did not even related to the affair, such as spending all that money. No one made him drink. I am not saying OW was not wrong, but she isn't your issue, HE IS and I am tired of hearing how he wasn't himself yada yada yada. OF COURSE he wasn't if he was downing all that Vodka ON TOP of being bipolar. He knew better and he CHOSE to do those things.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tmdt:
<strong>What makes him less responsible is that he had less choices. His choices were, 1. To have sex(with protection). Now let's see, her choices were, 1. To have sex. 2. To go through with the pregnancy. 3. To keep the child. 4. To sue for child support. The choices for me and my two children, none!!!!!!!!!!!!!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>For a Junior Member, you certainly have a logical grasp on the situation.<p>I bet you didn't expect to get such a reaction to your thread, did you? Hahaha you seem to have hit a nerve!<p>Well, enjoy your baptism by fire, TMDT. And welcome to our sorry little group. We're sad and glad you're here. You've come to the right place.<p>Catnip =^^=

Catnip I hope you see this. The feed back I just read was so inspiring. I have been thinking about this a long time but never did anything about it. You said you would die trying to change the system. Has anyone tried to send letters to someone in the legislature, I am not talking about one or two, I am talking about someone getting a P.O. Box or something so everyone of us (bs) on this site tell their story, and the one with the P.O. Box send them all at once. Maybe that would get the attention of someone.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bonniebb:
<strong>When your H CHOSE to start drinking, he chose to alter his personality. I am ALL too familiar with alcoholism having lost a young family member of it recently. Why would he begin drinking after so many years sober? And the bipolar thing also does not make him "not responsible" I AGREE the OW should have backed off, but what is the point? Her not backing off is not the reason for all of this, your husband's problems and lack of responsibility for his problems IS the issue. And furthermore, I'm sorry, but I do not feel too badly for you knowing you stayed married to him despite all the other things he did not even related to the affair, such as spending all that money. No one made him drink. I am not saying OW was not wrong, but she isn't your issue, HE IS and I am tired of hearing how he wasn't himself yada yada yada. OF COURSE he wasn't if he was downing all that Vodka ON TOP of being bipolar. He knew better and he CHOSE to do those things.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>You're right, BB. He is a very flawed human being. Not perfect like you. But he has heart and a beautiful soul and I am absolutely crazy in love with him but he just doesn't feel worthy yet. But, he is worth it, absolutely worth it.<p>He chose to drink and he was wrong, wrong, wrong. If you have just recently lost a loved one to alcoholism, I am surprised at your hardness and lack of compassion...in fact I am stunned. I remeber the exact moment he chose to resume his drinking career after all those eyars of sobriety. We were sitting in a restaurant and he said, "You know, I have had nearly 18 years of perfect sobriety. Don't you think it would be OK for me to have an occasional glass of wine with a meal once in a while?" Stupid me almost gave him permission by tryting to be a good Alanon wife by treating him like a responsible adult and letting him make the choice by saying, "I don't think it's a good idea, D, it could ruin everything for us. What if you can't stop? But, I am not your mother, I am your wife and you know better than anyone what you can and cannot handle". I found out later at Hazelden that I should have told him, "No, I don't want you to drink." and left it at that. By leaving it up to him, it was like I gave my permission. Oh how I wish I could turn back the clock to see if that would have made any difference. Cunning, baffling disease. <p>Everyone knows it is a disease as devastating as cancer and heart disease. If he had those diseases, I would not leave him. And he is taking his meds like I would expect him to if he had any of these other horrible diseases.<p>You're right, he did choose to do the terrible, terrible things he did, but like Christ asked, "who is without sin to cast the first stone?" Obviously, you must be pure BB, to feel entitled to cast those first stones, time after time. <p>With the lack of charity and compassion you display towards the WS and towards the BS's here on this site, I must admit I am as guilty as you are as I have absolutely no compassion for my OW. I am so flawed as to wish her ill will, which is borne out of anger and bitterness. I know, I'm bad. I can't help it right now. Haven't evolved that far yet...and it's been three years! I don't suppose I'll feel any charity or forgivenss for her until there is a change in the system...and I am not so damn uncomfortable! I am a creature of comfort. Maybe this is the lesson I was supposed to learn. Discomfort. I am still trying to find out the reason for all this.<p>So laugh your [censored] of at me, BB. I careth not. I know what is in my heart and in my husband's heart, I know all about his disasterous choices HE made. I acknowledge all that, so tell me, what am I supposed to do with this constant reminder you bombard me/us with? Does it make things any easier? Am I supposed to throw away 18 years of remarkable, loving and rich history with someone I am crazy about simply because he went crazy for a short time in the big scheme of things and be miserable without him the rest of my life?<p>I admit, over the past three years, I have been miserable with him, but incredibly, we are attaining a much higher plane...there are rewards in staying with the program. There are rewards in forgiveness and there are rewards when I look into his eyes and see his soul, when we finish each others sentences and when we are in each other's arms feeling the comfort only we can give each other. I'm a sucker for him, BB. Always was always will be. He's always been a sucker for me. The most wonderful moment was when I walked in the door recently from shopping, and he looked at me, all choked up and said, "I can't beleive what a beautiful woman you are. I am so in love with you." He didn't just mean on the outside, I knew what he meant. It was one of those moments frozen in time for a while where it spoke far more than what was said. It's hard to explain.<p>I know he never thinks about OW, reminisces or pines for her. He didn't even know her. In fact, he was horrified when he saw her a year later at court and didn't recognize her. He was appalled and said it was like watching the unattractive woman across the bar become more beautiful as it got closer to last call. I know it isn't all about looks at all. She did have great hair, I'll give her that, but what made her so ugly was her soul and selfishness and uncaring.<p>And just for the record, the courts SHOULD care about me and others like me...and you. If they don't now, they will someday when all this comes to the forefront and the injustices are revealed. Also, I do not begrudge CS to the OC....but I know first hand it does not cost $1300 per month to provide for a two year old or even a ten year old or a teenager. But, let's get reasonable here...what they are extorting from us should be illegal. The OW has to provide a place for herself to live anyway and we should not be responsible for paying her rent or utitlities. She got to call all the shots so she should take on the lion's share of the responsibility. We'll help but I think in our case around $250 per month is fair.<p>Catnip =^^=

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tmdt:
<strong>Catnip I hope you see this. The feed back I just read was so inspiring. I have been thinking about this a long time but never did anything about it. You said you would die trying to change the system. Has anyone tried to send letters to someone in the legislature, I am not talking about one or two, I am talking about someone getting a P.O. Box or something so everyone of us (bs) on this site tell their story, and the one with the P.O. Box send them all at once. Maybe that would get the attention of someone.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, my friend, Bystander, who is a member here but currently in lurking status is adamant about changing the system and has all kinds of irons in the fire regarding this. He is working to right wrongs and he will eventually come back to address this situation. I can talk to you more about this tonight or tomorrow, but for now, I have spent almost five hours on line (something I rarely do these days) and we;ve had a snow storm and I need to shovel my way out to get to the store or no one eats tonight.<p>I will check back later and discuss this further with you. If you want in on this, I will try to have Bystander e-mail you directly.<p>Be of good cheer...change is inevitable. In the meantime, post your story and tell us about you and your situation.<p>Catnip =^^=

TMDT
Stop it. He had every choice to prevent this. You sound ridiculous!<p>Catnip
Thanks for your post.

I can speak from experience about bi-polar. My daughter is 8 years old and is diagnosed with it. We have her in therapy for behavior as well as on meds to control her brain chemistry. Her father, My ex-H is bi-polar, albeit undiagnosed. I know what it is like to be married to a bi-polar man. In actuality, these people in a sense have no personal responsibility because they make it work logically in their brain, despite faulty reasoning due to their condition. I can preach personal responsibility to my daughter and she would still do the very thing we teach her not to do. We are fortunate, we got her help at an early age. Some aren't diagnosed until late in adulthood. Not making excuses but living with these people require an extra dose of strength and stamina. Love plays a big part in it too, because when the world hates our bi-polar people, we love them. I always tell my daughter's teachers, "if I ain't fighting her, I am fighting for her". It isn't easy.<p>~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Catnip and Tmdt (SP?) (sorry :eek [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
I am very much interested in doing my part to ensure that child support will be fair to all parties involved. Is there anything I can do to help or be involved in my small way? Catnip, you put to words so eloquently alot of things that I wish I had the time to say. Hang in there, I know there's a blessing out there for you.
There is nothing like watching a loved one make some serious mistakes and know that there is partly some condition that doesn't make it any easier. My prayers are out for you too. It's difficult. I would love to be able to e-mail or chat with both of you one of these days.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~<p>BonnieBB,
I agree on personal responsibility issues and I do believe as much as can be, the blame lies equally on both parties. I may not always agree with you on things, but you do have the valid point that if the man had kept it in his pants, then it wouldn't have happened. I also add, that if the woman wasn't so readily available and willing to have him put it in her, then it wouldn't have happened also.
It isn't easy no matter how it rolls...but I see that you are making the best of your situation and I admire you for that (and private school too! They are really fortunate children. Our OC gets public school as does our four children, we don't make that much). But I am glad you and your H are finding a way to make it work. That is what it is all about.<p>I send my hugs to y'all,
Twiisty