Hey guys,<p> Sunday night my wife officially came to me and on her knees (literally) told me she was sorry and had been very wrong. She clarified that she knew that her words didn&#8217;t mean much (this pregnancy resulted from her third affair) but she was now focused on God and had to choose to do the right things regardless of how others perceive her. (I&#8217;m paraphrasing heavily, but this is the gist) She went on to say that she knows she can&#8217;t imagine how deeply she has hurt me, and she knows now because of the way I have handled this, that I do truly love her. She said that she knows my love for her is true and of God because no man could ever love her on his own after the things she has done. She said that she had no right to ask anything of me, but wanted me to know that she does want to work toward reconciliation if that is what God leads me to do. <p>I feel now that the ball is in my court, so to speak. I believe my wife is sincere, although I don&#8217;t trust her. I believe that the next action step is for me to decide whether or not I want to reconcile with her. Not a small decision. I guess for me it boils down to what God wants me to do. I have to believe that He can work this out if He so chooses. I do love my wife, perhaps more fervently than ever. Strange, but true. I just want to make sure the motives behind any decision I make are pure. Does she need to have a season to &#8220;prove&#8221; herself to me? In ways I think so and in ways I don&#8217;t. I believe a man should love his wife as Christ loved the church. When we sin against Him and then repent and ask His forgiveness, He doesn&#8217;t put us on the proving ground. He forgives us immediately, and completely. The sin is forgotten. <p>Well that all makes good sense, but then why does He make a provision for divorce? I know that when adultery is committed, you&#8217;re not commanded to divorce, your spouse, but according to the Bible, it&#8217;s clearly allowed. I feel like after three affairs and a pregnancy, if any man is justified, in divorce, then I am. <p>On the other hand, I try to put myself in my wife&#8217;s shoes. If I had made the mistakes that she has, then how would I like to be treated? Let me say here, that I think anyone of us here are susceptible to affairs. I think that as the wounded spouse it&#8217;s very easy to become self-righteous and look down on the one who has betrayed thinking, &#8221;I would NEVER do that.&#8221; Well I think we are all kidding ourselves if we adopt that attitude. I&#8217;m certain that with few exceptions, not one spouse here set out with the intention of having an affair, let alone becoming pregnant (or impregnating). Satan wants to destroy, and he is relentless. We are all susceptible.<p>The purpose of this post? I&#8217;m not totally sure. I&#8217;m faced with this decision, and I&#8217;m going backpacking by myself in a couple of weeks to spend time alone with God and see what he would have me do. I know some of you have made this same decision and some of you have been the wife that was forgiven. Maybe there is something you can share.

P51,<p>Well, my pastor preached on just this subject, in a round-about way, this past Sunday. He is actually preaching on building faith, but a part of that is in God's forgivness. Yes, the bible does state that divorce is acceptable in cases of adultry, but it also tells us to forgive. A statement that I noted when he was talking about forgivness in marriage was "The greatest gift God gave on the cross is FORGIVNESS" That went along with his (pastor's) statement "Believe that it can be done!" and the following verse:<p>Matthew 18:19 "Again I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father"<p>But, you have to believe that it can be done as well.<p>I don't know if this helped you any. I just know that it hit me during the service, about the forgivness, and God's willingness to provide for us as Christians.<p>Tigger

P51:<p>While I don't claim to speak for God, the "out" clause for adultery is certainly debatable. The early Christian church did not teach this---in fact, adultery was NOT an excuse for divorce. This is more consistant with the message of the Gospel---Jesus continually preached forgiveness. As you may be aware, the Catholic church doesn't permit divorce, even if there is adultery in the marriage. Marriage is a one-time sacrament (until the death of a spouse). IMO the divorce clause is a mistranslation of the early bibles, and this occured during the Reformation.<p>The bottom line is that you don't trust your wife. And I wouldn't either. I think her intentions are true. But without a plan in place---good intentions may not be enough. If you can possibly do this, I'd strongly urge the two of you to start marriage counseling with either Steve or Jenn Harley (888-639-1639 for appointments). They'll will help the two of you learn the skills necessary to keep the love (romantic) alive in your marriage. This, coupled with the skills needed to avoid affairs will help ensure that you're not going down this road again.<p>If she'll buy into the counseling, I think you stand a good chance of straightening out this whole mess. And as you realize that we're all susceptible to affairs, and that most affairs aren't born out of an intentional need to destroy the other spouse---I think you're well on your way to forgiveness. Unfortuately, complete forgiveness and complete recovery will often take longer than 9 months---but if you get started in the right direction, I'm sure that you'll feel more confident about your decision to stay together. But that's why I really push the involvement of one of the Harley's---they'll speed this process tremendously.<p>God bless.

Hi P51,
Check this link out...<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
You might think that after a husband and wife rebuild their love for each other after an affair, all would be forgiven. Well, all might be forgiven, but all's not forgotten. In fact, many couples find that the memory of the affair haunts them decades after it happened. <p>How can the memory of that affair be erased? That really can't happen, unless all memory goes along with it. But resentment that is associated with that memory can be overcome, and that's the subject of today's column. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Forgiveness is not forgiveness if it has to be earned, but trust must be earned. Personally, I wouldn't trust your wife as far as I could throw her... Nothing against your wife, it's clear to me that you love her dearly. She must be an amazing woman to have such an amazing man as yourself.<p>Read the article, I believe it will give you some insight. I thought it was excellent. My heartfelt prayers are with you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

K, Thanks for your reply. I find your words to ring true. I haven't researched the biblical aspects of adultery/divorce as deeply and historically as you have, but you prompt me to do so. As far as counseling.....<p>My wife and I went through two Family Dynamics marriage courses which are licensed by and based on Harley's material. We are VERY familiar with Love Busting, Give & Take, Policy of Joint Agreement, etc. In fact, we facilitated an eight week His Needs/Her Needs course with/for eight other couples. Three couples on the verge of splitting up are still together today as a result. So we know the material. My wife understands, and yet she was still able to turn her back on God, husband, children, church, and family to devastate our home. We are currently both seeing a very, very good Christian counselor. An educated counselor (doctorate, licensed psycologist) that is firmly grounded in the bible.<p>These facts confuse the issues deeply for me. If we were ignorant of these principles things would be different, but we both knew and understood these things, yet she still fell in to another affair.

P51,<p>It's funny---as I was heading to check on you, I remembered that you had been through the Joe Beam training and were both very familiar with the material.<p>I can see how this would be confusing to you. I'd ask you to objectively grade yourself and your wife on how well you were sticking to the Harley "program"---Steve makes a big point about having much higher success rates when there's an actual (written) plan in place to meet needs and spend time together. But if you feel that both you and your wife were doing well on a plan---and she still had an affair---then you're probably dealing with a sexual compulsion, and it's going to be up to her to learn how to deal with it effectively. Which may mean "run" whenever she is in proximity to a man without you.<p>God bless.

Just butting in on this to see how things are with you P51.
Let us know when you get time.<p>Debi

P51,<p>One thing that has helped me to stick with the marriage and not give up is Cor 7, i believe. YOu may want to check that out. I hope that is right, my bible is in my car and i'm a chicken to go outside as it is very COLD in this silly state of MN. <p>What Cor 7 convicted me mostly of is that it is very clear that IF you leave your wife, not only have you NOT forgiven her as God asks, but it also states that the one who leaves should remain unmarried. AHHH! <p>I am 28 years old and i know i want to be married again in the future if this doesn't work out for us, but this chapter in the bible has been extremely convicting, almost haunting - not a good word when speaking of truth, but i fear God enough not to take his word lightly.<p>Hope this helps. <p>sorry if this is the wrong scripture, i will double check later.<p>God Bless,
Julia

I've been posting alot with my own issues lately, mostly to vent because I already know alot of the answers to my own questions, but I also like be able to give my input when invited.<p>I, too, would double check on the exception to the divorce rule in the bible. I'm no theologian, but from what I've learned recently, if you remarry another person while your previous spouse is still alive, you commit adultery. And also that adultery is not acceptable grounds for divorce. It is our own pride and fear of dealing with forgiveness that leads us to believe we must divorce or that it's ok. Jesus says we are to forgive 7 x 70 times. That means as many times as it takes. Forgiveness doesn't mean you don't have a right to be hurt and/or angry. It is merely a way of releasing that person from your anger. And as a result releasing yourself from the pain. <p>I think you already know the answers to your questions PD1. Trust is an important ingredient in any relationship, not just marriages. What we as humans fail to realize is that by the mere fact that we are human, we are capable of making mistakes-some worse than others. We put expectations on others that can in no way be fulfilled. Until we realize and accept this, we will ALWAYS be disappointed. Accept your wife for what she is, human. And put your trust, not in her, but in God. My ultimate goal is to be able to continue to love others REGARDLESS, IN SPITE OF, etc. them hurting me. Unconditional love means you love them not just when they do right, but also when they do wrong, over and over and over again. If we are not at the level, or refuse to get to that level, then we need to be honest enough with the partner. That doesn't mean there isn't hope in the future. <p>You will not find the answer right away. Give it time. My prayers are with you.

p51,, good to here from you again. i am glad that your wife seems to be making some effort in showing remorse for her actions. this will definetely help in any reconciliation process between the two of you. i have stated before and still believe that forgiveness is the work of God and tolerance is the work of man. my view is that it doesn't matter how much i forgive anyone for anything because God is the final judge in all matters. however i need to decide what i personaly can tolerate in cases such as ours to know whether i can cotinue in my marriage. if forgiveness is your deal though please remember this "the stupid niether forgive or forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." thomas szasz, m.d.. just my opinions. i feel in your case you should be very careful to protect your heart from further damage should history repeat itself. and i am not exempting myself from that same protection advice for my own heart.

Hi P51,
Just checking in to see if you were able to negotiate some counseling with your W. She has shown signs of being a serial cheater... Maybe even a call to Steve Harley for some good, sound MB advice??? Just wondering...