Guys - I've been lurking a little for the past year or so - but not posting - hoping that some time away would help me - but it hasn't. For those that don't know my story - my H and I have 5 year old D and H had affair with OW when our D was 1. The OC will be 3 this month. He has maintained (up until recently) that he wants to be me with me, etc. etc., yet he isn't walking the walk only talking the talk. He was going to have no contact with OC unless he and I agreed to do it together - he did it behind my back - he has and still does talk to OW behind my back and sees OC behind my back; introduced my D to OC behind my back; let's see - agrees to do X and then does Y and then says "well you still hang up on me when you're angry and I hate that, so why should I do X?" We've had some ups and many downs and the whole time - although my emotions run so deep since I had entrusted the OW to keep my child and she was using my D to get to my H, I probably in all honesty didn't do a good Plan A - but geez - I've hung in there for 4 years and I feel like I'm still where I started - no farther recovered since D day. The last incident was last week - going to Target(my D and I) and as we leave my D says "that looks like my dad's truck!" and I said "it sure does". so I pull around beside it - and keep in mind he had just told me minutes before that he was on his way back to work and would meet "us" at home at 7:00 for dinner. Well that gnawing gut-wrenching feeling in your stomach is there as I hope and pray that I am wrong and that he is not with OW - but of course, your gut is usually right - and he is there with OW in the passenger side (which I have asked many times for her NOT to be in our vehicle) and the OC is in the back. Our D wants to go see her Dad so we get out and walk over to the truck and she is sitting there all high and mighty and he says "Hey - what's going on. - like we're all having high tea or something" and I said "that's what I'd like to know" and he says that He was looking for me - *yeah right* and they are sitting there eating Chic' Fil-A - I am livid but I act really cool and calm - You go through this enough and you get good at acting - then I say well you all enjoy, and I shut the door and go back to my car and sit there numbly - my D is crying wanting her dad and I say no - and then he comes to the car and wants to talk and I roll down the window and say - the time for talking is over - it is now time for action - if you don't put her and him out and let her figure out (by calling her mommie (who she lives with) to come get her and take her back to her car - and let her know right here and now that your loyalty is to me - that's it - we're done; and he says "I can't just put them out, that's stupid." And I said fine - and he walks back to the truck and leaves (to take them back to her car). All the while leaving me there to grieve and ache and watch him leave with "them". Every agreement we have he breaks and then he gets to where any agreement (to him) is jumping through hoops. I'm just so tired of this emotional ride I'm on - and I know that I'm the only one that can get off of it - but I truly feel like he is with me because of our D and that he is still having a "relationship" with OW because that way he can see his S when he wants and stay all nicey nicey so he can get out paying his whole amount of child support. I wish I had left him on D Day - and I would have 4 years of recovery under my belt - but now I sit -- almost at the same place I was before - but with a lot less love and respect and absolutely no trust in him. My D adores him and she would devestated if we aren't together - but I want someone loyal to me and who doesn't call that loyalty (jumping through hoops). Please help!

DD,
As I sit here and read your posts, my heart ache's with yours. It brings back memories of the stomach pain situation I used to feel when something has gone wrong. It is for you to know that you are not alone. There are wonderful ladies here that help you when you need to vent or share or whatever. Right now I wish I had something to say to make you feel better or what to do but I dont. I will pray for you and your daughter. I wish I was there to help you through but please know that I am here if you need to talk. Please keep your head up, there are brighter days to come!
Unicorn

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Daycare Disaster:
<strong> I wish I had left him on D Day - and I would have 4 years of recovery under my belt - but now I sit -- almost at the same place I was before - but with a lot less love and respect and absolutely no trust in him. My D adores him and she would devestated if we aren't together - but I want someone loyal to me and who doesn't call that loyalty (jumping through hoops). Please help!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Dear DD,<p>My heart aches for you also. I am so sorry you are going thru this. But from what you said above I would say it might be time for a plan B. Yes it will hurt your little girl, but your little girl was just hurt going thru what just happened. Unfortunately his stupidity is going to hurt her either way.<p>Four years of riding the fence is way too long. He needs to jump sides. He obviously is able to have his cake and eat it too.<p>I cant imagine how difficult a decision this will be for you and I am no pro, but I dont see that he has left you with much choice. If you stick around you will end up with no love for this man at all.<p>Praying for you..........<p>broken_wings

I am so sorry that you are having to go through this after 4 years. I think you need my screen name...
I am not in your shoes so I dont presume to know what to do, but from what you have said, I think you already know what you have to do.
I agree that what your d just went through in that parking lot may be doing more damage than going your own way ever will. She sees dad with two women and probably two families. This has to be confusing for her.
Have you and h ever gone to counseling? H seems to want it all his way. My heart aches for you. I pray God will show you the right way and give you the strength to walk that path.
You are in my thoughts and prayers.

I, too, feel your pain and i am sorry for the way you have been treated by the one person who should honor you with all that he does and says. I know we all have a hard time with honesty at different times in our lives, but there has to come a point in our lives where we just strive to be men and women of integrity with honesty leading the way for all our relationships, especially in marriage. I know that my h has made an effort to be completely honest with me. <p>Recently h called me on the phone and told me that ow showed up at his work and i asked if they talked, he said no... our conversation ended, we hung up the phone. Two minutes later he calls and says, "i wasn't completely honest with you, ow did come inside and she was mad and told me off..." He said that he didn't want to tell me that they had talked, but then thought about it and remembered that he needed to be honest with me and tell me everything. Even though this was minor, it was a step in the right direction for us.<p>I don't know what i would have done if i saw them all cosey, eating and carrying on like a little family of their own. I don't know if i would have been so calm. God gave you an extraordinary amount of grace and strength to handle that situation. I think when my h didn't agree to drive them home, i would have driven them home or called a cab for them.<p>Today during our counseling session with our pastor, he talked about Corinthians 13... you know it, it is the passage that goes something like this...

Love is patient, love is kind, not boastful, not self-seeking, love keeps no record of wrongs... it endures all things...<p>there is more but i can't remember it all, but the gist is there. Our pastor just shared with us that we have the power (through Christ) to be patient, kind, etc even when we don't want to be. I pray that God would bless your marriage, let Him know your desires in your husband and the desires you have for your marriage. God is faithful. Your prayers are heard and not only that, they will be answered. <p>Big hugs to you. We are here for you and can relate to your trial. So come to us whenever you need to.<p>Julia

Daycare,<p>I haven't posted in ages either, but since I am a oldie, I of course remember your heartache. <p>Honey, your daughter will always have your husband as her father. But I assure you she is learning from you also. What are you teaching her? What kind of morals is she learning?? I ask this because it is going to start to hurt her to always see you in pain, and that is what she sees. If you finally let him go she would have calm scheduled time with him, and there would be no conflict. I know you love him. But I have seen for years how much pain he has caused you.<p>He is still having his cake. For your sanity and your child you have to move on. She is not losing her father, she is gaining her mom. I don't think it is right that she sees this woman having this role and power over you. You have to be strong for her, and show her the way you should be treated. I love you dearly, and i hope this isn't coming as judgemental. I just know you have been in this pain for so long. You deserve some happiness. You deseve some honesty. And you deserve to be loved. I am praying for you. You are worth so much more than what he has led you to believe and feel. <p>babstr

DD,<p>I have to second B/W and Babstr. It's time to walk away. In the long run it might save your marriage if you really want it. Let H know you're not a doormat he has to make a decision and stick with it. You have to teach your daughter to respect herself you don't want her to grow up thinking its o.k. for a man to treat her the way your H has been treating you.<p>I'm sorry you're going through this still. Pray to God and ask for strength he'll give it to you.
I'll keep you in my thoughs and prayers.<p>
Unsure

DD I want to say how horrible I feel for you. I can't imagine the pain er..yes I can.<p>I agree w/babstr and Unsure here.<p>Your D will gain a mother and learn life shouldn't be as she sees it now.<p>prayers.
love
Debi

Your little daughter is at such a formidble age. This simply can't and shouldn't be her role model for relationships. <p>Fast forward 25 years -- what if your daughter was a young married woman -- her husband cheated on her and continued to disregard and disrespect her. Wouldn't that break your heart as her mother?

Oh my dear. I think I remember your story. I don't know if you remember mine. <p>My OW is also a daycare provider that worked at my daughter's daycare. She too made moves on my H whenever he picked or dropped off our D. Kills me that she was in the room once when I was nursing our D, and still persued him.<p>But that's another story. <p>I'm praying for you. Please pray for strength and guidance. Sometimes you just have to "Let Go and Let God".<p>Z.

Thank you all for responding - it's so comforting to know that you guys are still "there", regardless of whatever stupid decisions I make. My H and I had tried counseling when I first "suspected" something was up. The whole time - he denies and lies to the counselor - and focuses the attention on me and my "insane jealousy" and my dysfunctional family, etc. and throws her off and charms her - and after several sessions of me understanding and "getting" what she was saying re: us setting boundaries - he didn't 'get' anything - and then I find out OW is pregnant - which is probably the only reason he even "admitted" to having an affair. I'm just really tired - I'm not saying I'm without faults - but I am extremely loyal and forgiving and most of all committed. I married for life and never expected I would be here. I was one of those that said - "you ever cheat on me - that's it! I'm gone!" I think that when I didn't leave right away - then I guess it became easier for him to think that he could keep pushing the envelope. I think somewhere deep down he loves me and wants us to be together - but I think he doesn't have what it takes - the maturity, the admitting his faults - that it takes to humble himself to get in that position of walking the walk instead of talking the talk. I pray about it - and everyone I know prays that he will see the light - but I can't wait indefinately. Anytime my D says anything about OC - I just cringe - because nothing of the situation was handled the way I wanted - and I feel so powerless. I was going to counseling for a while by myself to help me deal with my low self esteem - I quit for a while - I guess it's time to go back to help me get strong. I can't start 2002 this way and 4 more years be exactly where I'm at today. Thanks you guys for letting me vent. I love you all and Hate that we are all here.

It isn't your fault daycare disaster! I am sooo sorry you are still where you are.<p>If I remember correctly, his mother contributes to his quirky thinking. It is as if he is a noble man because he continues contact with OW and OC. You have tried to negotiate EVERYTHING with this guy - and bottom line, he does what he wants.<p>He is a conflict avoider that doesn't want conflict with OW or OC or his mother - and will do whatever it takes to not have any of that conflict - at YOUR expense. He'd rather have conflict with you. I guess you could say that he finds you 'safe' and them not safe, but, gee - I don't know if you are going to settle for this muchy longer.<p>If you keep doing what you've always done, your gonna get what you've always gotten.<p>I guess going back to the counselor to make you strong will help, but I think you should go to plan B - you will be sooo surprised how strong you get without this guy tearing down everything inside of you every time you turn around. Just my opinion.<p>You have fought the good fight - and I think that you won. You are the only one here with any common sense or brains. You get a kudo from me.<p>Don't be such a stranger - we care about you!<p>I hope you find peace during this holiday season, you certainly deserve it!
TNT

I, too, feel my heart break reading your parking lot experience. I am new to this site, but I recommend the J.Dobson book, Love Must Be Tough. (I think that's the title.) It probably has the same principles as the Plan B mentioned here. <p>No one should have to endure that kind of pain and heartbreak for this long. <p>My prayers are with you.

Daycare, listen to all these wise people especially trustintruth.<p>Therein lies the best advice one could give.<p>Oh I feel for you honey!<p>love and prayers,
Debi

Oh DD... I was thinking of you just a week or two ago. I almost posted to you to see if you might be lurking... but then thought "how silly... she must be doing well now". My dear.... he is full of crap. I should know, since my H has done so much of the same things & thinks that no one is hurt & I am just unreasonable. He still saw her & lied to me. Still slept with her & lied to me. On & on... over & over. I too have struggled over the issue of removing him from my boys lives. But I came to the realization that he was the one pulling out of their lives, for either an hour, or a day... it didn't matter. So he moved out & took the opportunity to see where he wanted to be. He claimed he wanted back into the house & into our lives, but he admitted to still sleeping with her. During that three months my boys never asked where dad was. He saw them on weekends & various times during week, but they NEVER asked why he didn't sleep at our house. So I finally said enough is enough. I agree with the other ladies here that the lesson I was teaching them about how I was allowing him to mistreat me was a VERY bad one. So we are divorcing & it will be final in February. He still claims to want to be back with us, but yesterday tells me he is taking OW and OC on flight today to California (we are in Tennessee too... like you). And he will be gone til Sunday. He is paying for all this so OW can go home to parents for holidays. I didn't say a thing... cause it didn't matter to me. It really didn't. I thought back on the past ten years and how when my boys were 16 months and 2 months he put me on a plane by myself with those two babies to take them to Texas to see my dad for first time. My H has NEVER been to my dad's house in 10 yrs of marriage. And then two years later he let me go to Texas again with both small children to attend my grandmothers funeral. Supportive huh? You know what??? I will NEVER allow anyone to treat me that way again. <p>DD... I feel better now that I have in years. I laugh again. I see possibilty in each morning. I love life once again like I thought I never would again. Some marriages are just not meant to be put back together. You need better that what he is dealing out. I took two years of hanging on. God knows I would have died on the vine with four years of that emotional poison. <p>God bless you. Take care of you. Please... love... Carolyn