Last night, I found out that my h lied to me.<p>My oc is bi-racial, bi-cultural, bi-lingual, bi-everything. A few months ago, in a fit of childish anger, I told my h that I'm to the point that whenever I see a bi-racial child, my resentment stirs. Not a good example for a mother of 3, I know. But this was my honest feeling. I said a nasty word or two, but apologized shortly thereafter. <p>In another heated discussion, he admitted to telling OW what I had said, although I had apologized (he left that part out). I could not believe he did that, and asked over and over and over again, "Did you really tell her that?" After about ten or fifteen minutes, with his mom visiting in the other room, I was about to leave for good. When he realized how serious I was, he apologized for lying and that he didn't really tell her that. I knew he was lying but wanted to believe that he couldn't be so callous. <p>Fast-forward to last night. I heard from another source that he indeed had told her what I said. When I confronted him, it was like confronting him with an A all over again! <p>What logical reason, other than selfishness, and lack of respect for me would possess him to do that? His conversations with OW are supposed to be strictly reagrding OC, not about anything he and I say in private. I told him this was worse than the A because that oneness we're supposed to have in front of her was destroyed!! Personally, I feel that he doesn't want she and I to get along. What do you guys think? I'm too mad to continue this post. It took alot of restraint not to crack the frying pan over his head!!

You are very justified in feeling angry and betrayed over what your h did. Things said in a marriage out of anger, love, frustration, etc. should remain in the marriage. Especially when those words could hurt others. He was wrong. At least that is my opinion.<p>How long has it been since D-day for you? It sounds as though your h is not really out of his fog yet. He seems to be trying to please too many people and his judgement may be off.<p>I could be wrong but it just seems as though h is still confused about how it wants this all to work. Do you both work with POJA? Do you see a counselor?<p>I will continue to pray for your family and I hope things will calm down after the holidays.

I can really empathize with this experience. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. It does seem in my situation that my DH really got "fogged up" again because the EOW returned to the same workplace and really tried to draw him into relating to the OC without my knowledge. Unhappily, it took a terrible scene to wake him up (I had nothing to do with it). However, I learned from her unwelcome email just how much he had STILL been sharing with her about our marriage, the telling her of all people about our "turmoil" (bet she LOVED hearing about that). Like you, that knowledge that he would return to any form of intimacy and secrecy with that SAME PERSON hurt even more than the original betrayal. I do see why MarriageBuilders advocates for no contact ever.
I know it was difficult for my husband to see that any kind of personal sharing with this extremely invasive, demanding person would only backfire. He kept trying to be a "nice, decent friend"...and it kept leading her back into hoping for some form of continuation of the original triangle. It literally took her reporting exactly what he was saying to ME to wake him up and stop him. Since then, she has given up and moved to another state. I'm sort of waiting for child support papers to appear around the time our baby comes (in February) but that cannot be helped.
I guess I just want to say that you have the complete right to feel hurt and betrayed again. This is a serious breech. My complaining and jealousy, LBing did nothing. He only really stopped relating to her when it became clear to HIM that it would always backfire, and, fortunately, she herself shot herself in the foot there with her emotional outbursts and demands and her refusal to honor his wishes.
I hope that you can be loving and clear with your partner about your boundaries, and avoid LBing!! I made so many mistakes with this that I still feel the damage.
I am thinking of you and wishing you well!!<p>trying4compassion
8 months pregnant
EOW/OC moved out of state!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
no support/no visitation (yet)
OC 19 months old/H NOT on birth certificate

Thanks for letting me vwnt. Lord knows I needed to. <p>I sat down and wrote a long letter to OW via email yesterday. I have no idea why. Maybe just to let my feelings be known. Like I said before, h is quick to (and almost finds pleasure) in telling me how much she hates me.
The main purpose of the letter was basically to let her know that I don't hate her, to apologize for the wrong I've done (I cursed her out so she's afraid to call) and also to know that the welfare of my OC is important to me. I don't want her to feel that I am in any way, an obstacle to her legitimate attempts at doing the best for her child. Depending on the kind of woman she is now, I'll know how to handle her based on her response, or lack thereof. <p>The funny thing is, it was my mil who encouraged me to do so. OW would like pictures of our children for OC to have. She understands that my h would not be so enthusiastic, for resaons unknown. I wouldn't mind, but wondered if she'd be reluctant to accept them being that they were from me. Mil said if she is than that's her problem, and I'll know what kind of person I am dealing with. So I took a deep breath, typed the letter and sent it on it's way. <p>No response is better that a foul one. I should've asked you all's opinion first. But my goal was accomplished- to let her know I am not the enemy. I am where she wishes she could be (not all it's cracked up to be sometimes sweetheart). Wish us well, and continue to keep us in your prayers.<p>Oh, and D-day for me was Oct 97.

I just re-read your post tryin and thought about something. What if my OW decides to use this opportunity to inform me of other personal things my h may be telling her? It's easy to tell if she's lying or not. I don't know what I could do. I know I shouldn't worry about it. I didn't tell my h I wrote her and he'd be furious if he knew I did. I'm just waiting for him to get an email from her letting him know. <p>I've tried to work these arrangements out with him, but he's tired of talking about it already. I felt I needed to get to the source. Call it taking matters into my own hand. If all this does blow up in my face, because I didn't do this with his consent (a big LB), and find out he has been lying to me, what can I do? I can't divorce him. I'm in my mid 20's with 3 kids and nowhere to go. But I wouldn't want to look him in the face ever again.

strwbryncrm ,
Why would he be angry at you? I don't see anything wrong with the letter you wrote . That is so cruel of him to get pleasure
out of telling you the ow hates you. I don't think I could have keep that frying pan from flying . I remember it bothering me
terribly as to why the ow hated me. I didn't even know her other then it was some girl that worked with my h. She use to call
the house to find out about the jobs there where working on. I could tell then she didn't like me this was before I found out that
he had slept with her. I remember questioning him about what the her problem is with me. I don't think he ever did answer he
just looked at me stupid. This was when I trusted the both of them to much. I think most of the ow that knew about us before
hand hate us . I don't know why I never could figure that out.
She most likely will let him know you wrote her, but I cant see why he should have a problem with it .I would have a problem
with his attitude . Maybe you should tell him you wrote it. I hate to say this but is it possible he wants you two to fight over him?
He needs to realize this isn't a game. I'm sorry he is doing this to you.
with love flowerseed

Thanks flowerseed. His attitude was starting to bother me big time, so I informed him that I was interested in writing to her. I didn't tell him that I had already sent it, just to see if he'd say not to and why. He seemed ok with it. Said it wouldn't hurt but that he didn't know what she would say. At this point it truly doesn't matter. I just want her to know where I'm coming from and from her response, or lack thereof, know where she's coming from. I'll keep you guys updated.<p>We did spend some quality time together this weekend, free of arguments. I want to celebrate. I just feel like a burden has been lifted off my shoulders. It's hard to explain but easy to enjoy. This is why I stay. Because there are some good times. In most marriages, I'm sure it's the same.

strwbryncrm,
When I first read your post I was thinking this was all new to you. I went back and read and see you have known for a while.
Glad he dosent have a problem with you writing her thats what had me wondering. Thats great that it helped you.
I called the ow about a little over a year ago and got alot off my mind. In a way it helped because I said some things I needed to. But in a way it didnt she said some things that I didnt need to hear.
I'll never understand how someone can try to distroy ones family and then act like I did something wrong and did something to her. She never once has said she was sorry.The only thing I got out of her was, when I questioned her as to how she was going to explain this to her kid how he came to be and why he has no dad . Her responce was I f***** up.
I did get one good jab in when I asked her if she felt like a prostitute (she said what do you mean he never paid me for sex). I told her sure you do you get a pay check every week. It still feels good just thinking about it.
I think your letter was a better way to handle it then the way I did. When I called her I was all new to this bunch of crap we have been delt.
Glad you guys had a great weekend.
Have a wonderful new year and celabrate your family. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
with love, flowerseed

Dear strwbryncrm: I know how vulnerable you might be feeling when you try to consider hearing ANYTHING from the EOW, especially when your H has been telling her things YOU have said. I have first hand knowledge of the foggy foggy dew that clings to these poor BS's about the EOW; it seems almost that they cannot resist "sharing" and very sadly it only reinforces the strands of sometimes desperate hope for this unfortunate OW. My own feelings now are of complete compassion for all of us, but I will NEVER AGAIN be open to hearing anything this woman has to say to me about my husband or anything else other than information pertaining to the OC!!! My husband is extremely clear about this now; it is the one contingency I have in order to be willing to stay in the marriage. This poor sad EOW has a very particular agenda of her own, which has proven to be to try to drive a wedge between my husband and I any way she can.
Since there is an OC that is about 19 months old, I am still aware and very cogent that she could change her mind and seek to continue to pop up in our lives. I am particularly conscious and protective of our own little son due in February.
I am in a very vulnerable situation myself and I know how it feels to sense that I "have no recourse or other choices" when H does not behave as promised. THIS IS NOT TRUE!! I can cope with being a single mother; if my partner is not completely honest with me forevermore about this and honoring of his core beliefs, acting on them, thinking of WHAT IS BEST FOR BOTH OF HIS CHILDREN---then I have nothing anyway, and I am no longer afraid or angry, just clear.
YOU HAVE OTHER CHOICES, YOU HAVE THE POWER TO STAND YOUR GROUND. I understand how difficult it seems to be a young mother facing the possibility of life as a single parent. Honestly, I will NOT be willing to sacrifice the mariage I need and the great modeling that provides my child in order to preserve some false sense of security based on lies and broken promises ever again.<p>I hope this is helpful!!!!
Also, it really has helped me to really attempt to focus on NOW, and, if I do have a concern with my husband's actions, I quietly state it and ask for exactly what I do want in short sentences, with the respectful awareness that he does have the right to refuse. That is really the only way to get free of the past and the fear and anger for me...
love,
Liisa
Dday 2/29/00
OC 19 months old
No contact as of July 8, 2001
EOW and OC left H workplace/moved away last month

strwbryncrm, i have been wanting to write you since i read your post several days ago. you see my w had an a and gave birth 1-1/2 weeks ago to a mixed race baby. i also had feelings of resentment every time i saw a small child of that certain race. i have 7 kids, i have a 2 year old mixed granddaughter that i simply adore (she gets down with me and does push-ups while i am excerciseing), have spent thousands of hours working with children of all nationalities trying to portray a good roll model and still found myself feeling a as if i were prejudice against this race. the truth was that racism had absolutely nothing to do with it. it was simply a more prominent reminder of the hurt and pain my w's a had caused. after the baby was born all those feelings against people i didn't even know went away.
i believe that when a ws acts as if they don't want to talk about their a it is because of several reasons. 1-guilt, 2-they simply have no excuse, 3-they are afraid of hurting you more and/or of what you will say to them, and 4-(the most hurtful of all)they don't give your feelings enough credit. they feel that no matter what they do you will end up fine with it in the long run.
just my opinion.
as far as your feeling that you have no place to go and couldn't make it with 3 kids of your own. i felt the same way although i am about 2 months from turning 50. so many doubts went thru my head it was mind boggling. how will i support my kids by myself? how will i manage to take care of my 4 young ones and get them off to school and work all at the same time? who would ever want someone my age with 4 kids under 13 years old? the reality hit me just as my w was ending her a. i had been doing it for 4 months while she was in her a. i did all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, helped with homework, got the kids showered and in bed, and i was getting them off to school and to all their baseball and soccer games. this realization was a tremendous boost of my floundering self esteem. to realize that i was able to provide for my kids and that i could run my family if the need arose.
the point i am trying to make is don't start to doubt yourself as to your own personal morals and believe in yourself. don't believe all that old sterio type crap that you are finished as a divorced woman with kids. God would never let that happen.
all the luck in the world for a speedy recovery of a healthy marriage, pops

Why is your husband pitting you against OW and vice versa? Maybe he feels that he can have all the power if you two never connected in any way?? Maybe he is just being immature? Maybe he will snap out of it when he realizes that it is hurtful to your marriage. Who knows?<p>I think you are all right to send the letter, but like flowerseed said, you may open up communication and find out some things you didn't really need nor want to know.<p>I think everyone has given you some good advice. Definitely might want to share the POJA with your hubby. He needs to choose which side he is going to be on and then stay put. I wouldn't like what he did if I were you, either. Good luck and let us know what OW's response to your letter is? I'm curious...

Strwbryncrm,<p>I agree with everyone else your H was wrong for telling exOW anything you said. We all say things we regret when we are angry but your H knows the real you and shouldn't repeat anything you say out of frustration because dealing with this situation.<p>
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pops:
[QB] found myself feeling a as if I were prejudice against this race. the truth was that racism had absolutely nothing to do with it. it was simply a more prominent reminder of the hurt and pain my w's a had caused. <p>
Pops,<p>This helped me a lot I'm African American. exOW is Colombian I still have problem seeing and dealing with certain Hispanic looking women. I also have a problem dealing with Colombians. My family is a melting pot, blood relatives that have blonde hair blue eyes to having nieces and nephews that are half Puerto Rican. At reunions I'm dealing with people of all races and nationalities people that I love very dearly. I still found myself disliking anything Hispanic! (that wasn't related to me of course) I think racism is stupid and ignorant. I'm working very hard at not hating an entire culture because of one crazy deranged person/family. <p>OC is darker than me, my H and our children which was surprising to me. I thought she would be a lot lighter and stick out if/when we tried to include her in our lives. That was going to be a major hurdle for me to overcome. I only saw her once and like you I felt nothing. No hatred, no anger, the only time I felt pain was when my H held her and my heart dropped it was like the day we got the DNA test results back I couldn't believe my H fathered a child by someone else. Good luck with your situation I know it's hard. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.<p>
Unsure

I would like to thank everyone for the continued support.<p>It's been a few days now and I still have not received any response from OW. It may be a blessing of sorts because I realized that I may have opened up another can of worms. My original purpose in writing to her was to address three main issues.<p>* Apology: Because I was wrong for saying what I did, I apologized. It helped me in the end because I knew my slate was clean.<p>* Father and child bond: This is important and I would do my part to encourage and support it because it is what they both deserve. I'm still working on this.<p>* My position in the triangle: I'm not going anywhere! Regardless of what she wants to believe and what my husband may or may not be telling her, I am not going anywhere. I didn't say this part but, there can only be one #1. She can hope all she wants for a "future" with a married man, and I won't take that away from her, but she can't get to me unless I let her.<p>I've adopted a vow of silence for an unspecified amoount of time. It started last night over something stupid. But once again, our lack of communication skills allowed it to get out of hand. I fianlly said enough is enough. I came home trying to avoid anything that could upset me and in my silence, he thought I was mad. My tone may have told the truth and he got defensive. As I tried to explain that I wasn't trying to argue, he continued to get defensive and all was lost. At this moment I'm speaking only when spoken to. At first I wasn't even doing that. He was asking me questions and I was praying. I felt if I couldn't find a way to control what was coming out of my mouth, I wouldn't even open it. I've stopped talking because he already knows how I feel about everything! He tells me all the time that he's heard it all before and is tired of hearing it. But now that I'm trying to "shut up", he's seeking me out because the silence is deafening. It's helping alot, because now that I'm quiet, I can hear God. And it's all making sense.<p>Sorry for blabbing, but for once in a long time, I feel great! In spite of the fact that nothing much has changed.