Ok I posted this once but I do not see it. So I guess I need to re do this and if I did it twice well the I guess I really got the message out.
I have been married for almost eight years. This is my second marriage. In the beginning, it was all so perfect. Yeah I was a package deal I had two children from a previous marrige. Then we had a child. Things were ok but looking back, it wasnt as perfect as I had thought. My husband is verbally abusive towards me and my children. Here are some examples.."you kid receive the dumb --s award" "your dad is a pu---" you are too f---ing stupid to see they walk on you" "you are such a f---ing baby"...blah blah get it? Any ways I have spent well over a fortune trying to fix the marriage through counselling. H has even VOLUNTARILY enrolled himself in a counseling program for abusive men. BUT his is verbal. He has never hit me...he has however thrown things towards me, punched the wall or simulated punching the walls, he has slammed and kicked chairs, and then says "Cant a man get a little upset" "what, a man cant be frustrated and say things" and then he demands repsect from the children. Can you respect someone that puts you down 24-7? There are days when he is in a good mood and quite honestly he sets the mood of the day in our house. If he is in a mood so is everyone else. we walk on eggshells and he scoffs at the idea ands says "oh I am that much of a monster". The teenagers (my previous marriage)are beginning to act out horribly. They are in counseling too. I have been to three counselors and all have told me to make a "safety plan" and leave. I have no money. H does not work. Long story there too. I know I guess what I have to do, but my questionis...1-why is it so hard to do the right thing
and 2- why cant I just get over it and leave. It is kind of sad that my youngest son says cant u just send daddy to his room when he be's bad and not let him come out until HE decides to be good like you do to me? I am at my wits end. I can see my family falling apart and I am trying but his counseling isnt working and I am mentally drained. He is twisting, manipulating, and obnoxiously tempertantrum throwing, and I feel it is slowly killing me. In fact when I was logged on to this site I clicked out of it when he walked in the room and he said "why did you click out so fast?What were you looking at huh?" and I cant tell anymore whether it is a genuine question or if he is accusing me of something. He has accused me of being unfaithful and I have not. His resoning is I am not having sex with him so I must be getting it somehwere else. Truth is, I do not wish to have sex with him...havent since december because I hate getting sooo close and intimate only for him to insult the kids or me or my family again. I have been a great wall builder and I feel that I am losing myself. I try to be firm but fair with punishments when neede with my children, but he yells and says I am a pushover and not a good disciplinarian. It needs to be a military camp her in his eyes....air force veteran. I am in my thirties and daily I feel I am wasting my time anymore. I have the word divorce pop up daily him asking me if I want one. I really do not but I cannot live like this anymore. I do not have any money I cannot ssave being he doesnt work. He is driving me crazy to where I doubt myself more and more. I feel like I just watch everything happen and do not stop it. What the hell is wrong with me. Why cant I just end this thing. I am afraid that one day my son will say I want to live with my dad and my daughter will end up pregnant because she so desperately is seeking love. MY biigest fear is my sons will grow up to do this and my daughter will marry an abuser.....HOW DO I STOP THIS CYCLE>>>IS IT SAVABLE?? I need a little input.

<small>[ January 29, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Jaelyn ]</small>

Jaelyn,

I know what you mean...the verbal abuse results in loss of respect which results in...lots of bad responses and behaviors.

It's hard to leave a marriage when there are kids and you don't feel financially self-sufficient. While you are in it (as I am), do what you can to reassure the kids that Dad's behavior is wrong, it hurts, but they need to forgive him, for their own sakes. That is a very fine line to walk when you don't respect the man yourself but recognize that the kids need to. And it's hard--to the breaking point, it's hard.

Try to stay strong for your kids. I can tell from your post that you know what the right thing is and are doing your level best to do it--so try to take care of yourself, too.

Hi Jaelyn. I too am in a verbally abusive relationship. I have been with him for 14 yrs and tried everything to make him change like changing every little thing that he didn't like about me. I thought that there was something wrong with me that caused him to be angry and mean but finally I have realized that sure I may have some flaws but who doesn't and I don't deserve to be treated like crap! For a while I researched on the net and tried to figure out ways to get him to change but I realized that I can't "make" him change, if someone doesn't really want to change then no amount of begging and pleading or research you do will make them suddenly change.

You can only change yourself! And that is my focus now to change me, to build my self esteem and confidence and be a stronger person, to do things that make me feel like a person who is worthful and liked by others but most importantly to like myself. I am stronger now than I have ever been. I stood up to him one night when he called me an ignorant name, I had had as much of his crap as I could take and I exploded! Before I would just sit in silence and pain during his tantrums and wouldn't say a word because if you speak it seems to only make them more mad. Well not anymore! I went on for hours that night, telling him that I will not sit back and allow him to disrespect me anymore and that I will leave if he can't learn to stop the nasty name calling crap. One week later he said something ignorant again and again I exploded and that night I told him I was through and was going to move out. We had a long talk the following day and I explained to him that his words, whether he means them to hurt me or not do hurt more deeply than he could ever imagine and that there are times when I absolutely hate him for how he acts and pointed out reasons why. And I explained to him that I don't cause him to be angry because anger comes from within and no one can "make" you react how you react, that is a choice that is made by him and only him. I told him that I am never myself around him because he always puts me down so why in the world would he think that I am gonna open myself up just to be slammed back down by him (verbally).

He hasn't said a nasty word since the second time I exploded. Maybe it shocked him because in the 14 yrs that we've been together I had never ever yelled at him. Maybe he saw that I was at the end of my rope and that I really meant it when I said that I won't allow this treatment from him anymore. It's been almost 3 months now and things are going smoothly but I know that it is possible that he will go back to mistreating me so I have to keep the mindset of saying that if it does go back to that way that I must leave and take care of myself. The likelihood of an abuser really changing is very very slim but it is possible if they really want to change and work hard on changing. The thing to remember is that you can't make him change....he has to want that and make that happen all on his own and with therapy of course. You said that he is already in therapy and in some type of batterers program but maybe he needs a different therapist. Couples counseling doesn't work in abusive situations! He needs an individual counselor who knows about verbal abuse.

You need to focus on you! Once I quit trying to figure him out and figure out why he treated me badly and started working on myself and why I allowed him to treat me poorly I became stronger and once I felt good about myself I was able to command the respect that I deserve.

Check out these sites about verbal abuse. Educate yourself! www.drirene.com www.verbalabuse.com www.abuse101.com .

Another good site about anger issues is www.getyourangriesout.com

There comes a point when you have to decide if you want to live the rest of your life like this. You have the power to change your life in any way you choose. Contact a domestic abuse shelter in your area. The shelters aren't just for women who are physically abused. They can help you make a safety plan to leave, they can help you figure out what you need to do in order to leave, they help you with all sorts of things.

Your fear about your children is a valid fear because a child of abuse (whether verbal or physical) is more likely to be abusive to others or to be the abused in their own relationship.

And no a man does not have a right to be abusive to others! Sure everyone has a right to get upset but they have no right to abuse!!!!!!! He is copping out big time by saying that it is "normal" for men to yell and scream and throw things and call people ignorant names. No it is not "normal" manly behavior, it is not macho to bully people around.

<small>[ January 29, 2004, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: KayT ]</small>

PS--about worrying what the kids learn, I think if you point out that the behavior is wrong and that not everyone is like that and that they do not *deserve* to be yelled at (it's unreasonable), and you stand up to him (as much as possible) and point out the wrong, there will not be confusion or internalization on the kids' part. A therapist told me this, that I should stand up to him in some constructive way when he yells. I got tired of doing it and starting withdrawing/avoiding instead.

Nowadays I am more direct with my oldest daughter (when he yells at her and she comes to me when upset). I do what I can to make her feel better and I acknowledge that he's her dad and she loves him, but he has a blind spot in this area. In the day-to-day, I try to talk about character and personality issues in people generally and tell-tale signs--even to the point where I recently said to her '...so you don't grow up and unconciously enter into marriage with a person who will treat you like that.' I also stress the importance of not rushing into marriage...

Thank you for your replyies. I need to let you know though that H is IN counseling for Domestic Violence(verbal) as if there is a difference. We go to different counselors. In fact my counselor will not allow him to be in counseling with me because the one time he did go, he began to get all irate and yell racial slurs and ethnic slams"all blacks are on welfare" all poor people like to be on welfare" and he began to gesture and the therapsit says "you should see yourself". And that is when it really made me think and she recommended him to go to this class. He is in this class with verbal abusive and the rest are physical. "but they still have sex with their husbands" my response is maybe they are afraid of getting beat up. Although he assures me that will never happen I wonder. It is an irrational belief to think I"I shouldn't have to wonder" but I feel that way. I am in counseling with a super therapist. I leave the room when he acts out(like I was told to) and even say "stop" before I leave the room. I ahve left the room with the boys when he yelled. I have left the room with my daughter. Anymore when it comes to discipline he states "I wash my hands of it" or "I wont get involved" and he is right there laughing, making faces, yelling I told you so's etc. And Believe me, I TELL him how it hurts I TELL the kids it is wrong. My friends state now they have seen a lot of things but didn't want to tell me. I feel so stupid. I know I cannot make him change. I am the fixer of things in the house. I fix the door, the toilet, brken things, the dryer, busted up knees and the like but I guess that is what is sooo hard.....I cannot fix this. Thank you for your responses. Sincerely I thank you. Doesnt it stink to know there are so many of us hiding out there????

Yes, it does stink, but you seem like a smart, strong woman and I'm glad you have a good counselor you like.

I'm sure you'll find a way out of this when you're ready--and I will too.