I don&#8217;t know what to make of this and thought I would just throw it out there for feedback. BS and I had 2 very long phone calls over a 24 hour period (5.5 hours). We talked about everything under the sun. She was very friendly, which is not unusual, but she was much friendlier than normal. We were cutting up and laughing about many things&#8230;especially WS. She was revealing parts of him to me in an effort to familiarize/convince me of his good side. She is almost 100% certain that they will end up back here in San Diego. She has asked for an open-door policy. She would like for us to stop in to visit, for Jonas&#8217; sake without any formalities. As she put it, &#8220;You and Jonas do not need to call before coming by. You are welcome any time.&#8221; That threw me off a little bit. What threw me off even more was when she stated that she would send H over to bug Jonas and I when she needed a break&#8230;which could be often. Now, what really sent me for a loop was when I told her that I would like to take her lead and let her set the pace. I told her I didn&#8217;t want to do anything that would make her uncomfortable because I understood that her marriage was her priority and I didn&#8217;t want to interfere. You know what she told me&#8230;I swear I just about fell out of my chair. She told me that JONAS was the priority and that was just the way it was. I asked her about her future family&#8230;shouldn&#8217;t her marriage her future children come first? She said that she had decided to not have children right now. She wanted a break from trying and didn&#8217;t think she could have any anyway. I was trying to pep her up about not giving up and not to let the past deter her, etc, etc. She told me that whatever happened, happened for a reason. Jonas is the child that her H has wanted. She wished she could have been the one to provide him that, but, for whatever reason God had, she didn&#8217;t. She said she wasn&#8217;t going to question it because what&#8217;s done is done. She wants to embrace Jonas into her life and not have anymore regrets. If H does end up back in San Diego, he will be here for 3 years and then have to go overseas (Japan?) for 18 months. I told her that would be exciting for her. She told me that she probably wouldn&#8217;t go. I was puzzled and asked her if she would go back home to her family while he was gone. She said no. She would like to stay in San Diego and keep up the contact/visits with Jonas. She knows she will become attached and cannot see just picking up and leaving. It seems so surreal. I know we had the conversation. I&#8217;ll have the phone bills to prove it, but I just don&#8217;t know how to take this. I want them to have a good relationship with Jonas, but she&#8217;s taking it beyond the parenting relationship. She wants me to take her out!! She wants to be able to have girls night out and leave Jonas with WS. She wants to learn to dance Salsa and she wants us to be girlfriends! Isn&#8217;t this a bit bizarre? I&#8217;m certain, under different circumstances, we could have been great friends. She&#8217;s really nice and we share the same warped humor. It just seems really strange. A lot more was said, but it would take forever to post. I walked away from the conversation with a really funky feeling. She pretty much closed the conversation with &#8220;You&#8217;ll be seeing A LOT more of WS. Mark my words. You won&#8217;t be able to get him out from underfoot. You&#8217;ll probably end up killing him after he drives you crazy with his constant jabbering&#8230;but that&#8217;s okay, at least I&#8217;ll have you and Jonas to pawn him off on when he starts driving ME crazy (hahaha).&#8221; What do you think? Am I off the mark to think this is weird?<p>OB1

Ohbratti1, <p>wow, what a conversation! I guess you could feel grateful that it's this way and that you're getting along. Our xow became my friend *after* the fact, (when I didn't know what she had done) and I really liked her alot.<p>Families come in so many different shapes and sizes these days. I think that it will be nice for Jonas that you all get along so well. <p>It is a bit strange that she wants to be so close to you. Maybe she feels that if you are friends, then it would be harder for you to have another affair with her husband. Ya know, make friends with the enemy so-to-speak. Maybe she has a difficult time making any friends. She might realize that she's never going to be a mother to a child that she birthed and realizes that this is the next best thing and wants you two to be friends rather than enemies. Ask her.<p>I know that you are uncomfortable about her husband being underfoot. It's ok for you to have your boundries. He does not have to be underfoot. You do not have to have an open-door policy with this man just because they do with you. You don't have to go Salsa dancing with this woman. Do what feels right to you. <p>Be very open and honest with her and her husband about your boundries. Sit them down together and tell them what you will and won't accept. You will tell his wife if he pulls anything. Tell him if he loves his son so much, that he won't jeopardize this new relationship. <p>I think that it's commendable to have been in a situation like this and feel love or kindness for the other parties involved. Hate and fear never get us anywhere good! <p>Good luck!!!<p>tinlizzy

tinlizzy,<p>Families do come in all shapes and sizes. I guess if it ate broke, don&#8217;t fix it, huh? So far, this has worked for us and I am very grateful. If this continues, Jonas will be emotionally wealthy. For him, I would do whatever it takes, and I&#8217;m starting to really believe that they will too. It&#8217;s pretty amazing. Like I&#8217;ve said before, I went into this hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. I never imagined that it could get this good, though. I&#8217;m happy for my little guy, but still a little guarded. MM is still a bit unpredictable. He doesn&#8217;t say too much&#8230;.except when his W and I have these &#8220;girl&#8221; talks. It drives him crazy that W doesn&#8217;t divulge the content to him. He asks, but she just says &#8220;Don&#8217;t worry about it, we&#8217;re not plotting to kill you, so you&#8217;re okay&#8230;for now.&#8221;<p>I don&#8217;t know, I guess I&#8217;ve become just a little jaded in my views. I&#8217;ve seen so much strife on this board, that I almost EXPECT it to be like that for me. It&#8217;s like waiting for the other shoe to drop. I wonder why I was lucky enough to have a positive relationship with his W. Sometimes I wonder if there was a mistake made somewhere, and God hasn&#8217;t caught on yet. Well, regardless of why, I&#8217;m grateful, and I will continue to do what I can to nurture this.<p>OB1

ohbratti1,
I do find it kind of strange. Did you every ask her for her forgiveness?
I was just wondering. I guess if my OW seemed very remorse and by her actions and her words I might at some point in time forgive her, but that would a long way off because i have not completely forgave my H.<p>It does sound like that she has forgiven and is ready to move on and establish a realtionship with Jonas. Maybe she is trying to make a bad situation into a good one for Jonas and her H. I admit that i do not know if I would ever be able to do that. I applaud her for trying.<p>I do find it weird that she said Jonas comes first. I would say her marriage comes first and I would be definetly going with my H to Japan.<p>Hopefully, works out for you and Jonas. I would definetly establish boundaries for all parties involved.<p>Dawn<p>[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: Dawn71 ]</p>

OB1,<p>I think that the reason it is working so well for you and BS is that you aren't trying to get xMM! That is also why you are so loved here. You can give everyone a different POV, w/out the ties of you trying to take from the BS!<p>As for the "open door" thing, I don't know what is going on with that. I would say that if you don't want them to be able to just "stop by", or have xMM hoisted off on you when BS is fed up with whatever, then set those boundries, like tinlizzy said! Heck, I wouldn't even just "drop by" at my parents when we lived in the same town, and I grew up in that house! It is just common courtesy to at least call first, which I would have as the minimum requirement for them to be able to "show up" at your house. I think that it caught me off guard too, reading about BS wanting to use you to have xMM go visit when she gets frustrated with him. To me, that's avoiding the negative points of her marriage. She is also putting her H in a spot where he could(not saying you would!) end up cheating again! That is one of our highest "rules"(for lack of better phrase), never be alone with another man/woman for ANY reason! Why put him in the position where it could "just happen" again?! <p>I don't think that the BS is truely thinking about what she is inadvertantly setting up, unless she is trying to test the two of you! Or even just yourself, to see if you are what you say you are, wanting xMM to rebuild his marriage, and stay out of YOUR(not Jonas') life.<p>As for her wanting to be "girlfriends", take it at YOUR own pace! But, be willing to follow her lead.<p>I don't know if I helped at all, it's JMHO.<p>Love,<p>Tigger

ohbratti1,<p>Your post really struck me. Two words: HEALTHY BOUNDARIES.<p>I'm not saying you can't be friends with this woman, but I don't think you should be friends with the husband. Maybe you should consult a professional counselor on this situation before they move nearby, so you can decide your OWN groundrules. This sounds like "triangulation"--creating a relationship between 3 people. No one is 100% emotionally healthy, esp. after what this woman/wife has been through. You have spoken about your concerns that MM may still be after you, so this isn't healthy for you or them. (I know what branch of service you are talking about, as it is the same as my H--what a small world!)<p>I'm also concerned for you that this woman may be obsessing about you and Jonas, rather like the way XOW/"friend" obsessed about MY family!! She got very involved in my family's life and looking back now (hindsight is 20/20), I REALLY wish I had not encouraged that. I think she envied everything I had (covet) and wished for it all herself. It would be easy for MM's wife to feel somethink like that about you, given her infertility.<p>Your key words again: Healthy boundaries! Find 'em and keep 'em!<p>My .02,
J
in recovery 3 years and happy [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: Jenny ]</p>

Here's another thought re: her possible obsession with you... she may be thinking, if she hangs out with you, learn what H liked about you, be more like you, maybe her H will like her more?? Which would be really twisted, as he needs to love her for who she is, not who she pretends to be. <p>I could be way off, but her attitude towards you DOES seem weird!

OB1,<p>I am not really in a position to give advice, but I agree with the others who have written you...I would set boundaries that are comfortable (and healthy) for yourself and your son. You know what you are comfortable with and I am glad that the BS seems to want to try to be your friend. <p>I will pray for you and your situation. Please keep us updated if you wish!<p>Thinking and praying,
Twiisty

Dear Ohbratti<p>This is really scary to me.<p>I admit I am a skeptic and have deep reservations about this cozy twosome-threesome the BS is proposing. <p>You've heard the phrase keep your enemies close; well, perhaps this is what she is thinking. It almost sounds unnatural...like dogs and cats getting along and sleeping in the same chair together. It happens, it can be done, but...<p>She seems to be opening the door for you and her H to become 'close' and perhaps intimate again and I wonder what's up with that? Is she trying to set you two up? Is she trying to unload him? It certainly sounds like these are very unhealthy boundaries to me...<p>If she is sincere and not playing games and not psychotic, then Jonas could be the recipient of a wonderful, rich and full family life...but I am very concerned for you. And especially for him. I am worried you are being set up somehow and God, I hope I am wrong, wrong, wrong. My gut tells me this doesn't make any sense at all. But then, you have your instincts, too, Ohbratti. Please heed them.<p>I too, worry about her unhealthy attachment to Jonas, especially if she is unable to have children of her own.<p>Please insist on counseling before you cross that line with her. And I'd be suspicious of that 'girlfriend' thing, too. The only 'salsa' I'd do with the OW in our lives is put it in her oatmeal.<p>You, Dear Friend, are in my prayers.<p>Catnip =^^=

I don't understand the skepticism BUT I know that's only because I have not had to deal much with xow. like many of you have. When we have spoken, we've been fine with each other. I feel sorry for her in a way.<p>Keep your guard up o.b.1, but just feel this out before you expect the worst. It seems that what we expect,usually ends up happening!<p>I don't think that it's fair for her to send her husband over to you when she's sick of him!!! Heck, who says that you want him??? I don't think that that should be part of the deal!!!<p>t.l.

It is a very unusual situation. All I can really do is hope that her thoughts are coming from a pure heart and sincere feelings. If she wants to keep me close to keep an eye on me, I'm okay with that. She'll see, with time, that I'm really not after her H. Once that happens, maybe she'll be more at ease. My gut does tell me this is weird, but who knows. You guys are right. I need to set healthy boundaries without pushing them away. It's gonna be tough. I really hope and pray this is not an obsession with her. It was one of my greatest fears while I was pregnant. My fear was that I have something she desperately wants and she would somehow try to take him (Jonas) from me. I know that's a bit paranoid, but now...I just don't know. I don't want to cry wolf. God, I'm very confused. The relationship she's proposing is strange. She wants H to be able to go back and forth between households at will. She wants me to stop in whenever and wants me to hold my door open for H to come by whenever he wants to see Jonas. She joked around about pawning H off on me so that she could have quiet time, but part of me thinks there was a little bit of truth in her statement. Anyway, I intend to be realistic and face all possible scenarios. I will move forward with caution, BUT I will give them every opportunity to establish the relationship they deserve to have with Jonas. As for me, when I want a H, I'll go find my own. She can keep hers, thank you!
[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

ob1<p>Making a point I think is important:<p>A relationship is only as healthy as the weakest person/party involved. <p>I'm NOT! saying the Wife is doing anything from bad or insincere intentions. She sounds like a sweet lady, but we all have "issues" somewhere. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
Many times we are NOT CONSCIOUS of our weaknesses and problems. My H was not aware of his problems that contributed to his affair. The XOW was not aware of her problems that contributed to her ability to carry on an affair with my H and still consider herself my "friend"!! She in all honesty believed that she could be "friends" with us both!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I really hope you get a good professional opinion on this one before it gets out of hand, even if you have to call the Harleys. A pat on the back for your trying so hard with this couple so far! I would hate for you to get burned now, after all your and her hard work. Congradulations for being such a good mom to Jonas. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Stick with your gut feelings.<p>Sincerely,
J