[QUYour baby is a gift and a miracle. Do not let any of these bitter women who are carrying alot of anger and jealously let you feel any different.
I'm sure your relationship with your mm is meaningful and real. Some of these people are hurting and can't accept that affairs are about love and need. Not obligation, and that hurts. We all hurt when we are in an affair or a victim of one. Imagine if you were in their situation, the other foot so to speak. They have to tell themselves (such as heavenlybody) that their husbands are in love with them, the sex was great, and what you have with him is meaningless. Of course, that is in most cases, far from reality! That is how they cope unfortunately.OTE] [/QUOTE]<p>
cmiranda,
I have an ow who claims to be pregnant, and yes her baby is a blessing and a miracle for her, but not for me and certainly not for my SO, if it were he would be showing an interest in her and her situation. It seems like you are living in some twisted land where the ow are the ones the man really loves and wives are just pathetic interferences. Do you really believe that? Affairs are not about love or obligation, they are in fact about need, something the WS wasn't getting and needed but didn't know the proper way to go about getting it. It may in fact be meaningful to the OW and sometimes to the MM, but that is not normally the case. I don't doubt that people marry the wrong person sometimes, but if you involve yourself into someone's relationship with another person whether they are married or not then you are setting yourself up for failure not a meaningful relationship. Meaningful relationships are not secret, they are proud, obvious, and honest. That's what OW fail to realize.<p>I, for one don't have to tell myself that my SO loves me, or try to convince myself that he wants me and I am not an obligation, he tells me everyday, we are not married and he still chose to stay with me, and the sex is great! So what does that say for your theory, here is his chance to go if he wants there are no strings here. Now you explain to my OW why he is here with me when their relationship is so meaningful and there is soooo much love.<p>Baloney!!<p>Bridgette

Amen Bridgette<p>Doc and I arent married either, infact we're in two different states right now due to a job transfer. I'm joining him when school is out. Point is he had the perfect chance to walk. There was no begging or pleading on my part for him not to. He chose me! Even tho this woman is carrying a much wanted biological child by him.Or should I say supposed child..as there is no proof... And if push comes to shove, from this woman..he'll still choose me.<p>baloney....LOL...I havent heard that in years<p>peace!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by some1s_mom:
<strong>[QUYour baby is a gift and a miracle. Do not let any of these bitter women who are carrying alot of anger and jealously let you feel any different.
I'm sure your relationship with your mm is meaningful and real. Some of these people are hurting and can't accept that affairs are about love and need. Not obligation, and that hurts. We all hurt when we are in an affair or a victim of one. Imagine if you were in their situation, the other foot so to speak. They have to tell themselves (such as heavenlybody) that their husbands are in love with them, the sex was great, and what you have with him is meaningless. Of course, that is in most cases, far from reality! That is how they cope unfortunately.OTE] <hr></blockquote><p>
cmiranda,
I have an ow who claims to be pregnant, and yes her baby is a blessing and a miracle for her, but not for me and certainly not for my SO, if it were he would be showing an interest in her and her situation. It seems like you are living in some twisted land where the ow are the ones the man really loves and wives are just pathetic interferences. Do you really believe that? Affairs are not about love or obligation, they are in fact about need, something the WS wasn't getting and needed but didn't know the proper way to go about getting it. It may in fact be meaningful to the OW and sometimes to the MM, but that is not normally the case. I don't doubt that people marry the wrong person sometimes, but if you involve yourself into someone's relationship with another person whether they are married or not then you are setting yourself up for failure not a meaningful relationship. Meaningful relationships are not secret, they are proud, obvious, and honest. That's what OW fail to realize.<p>I, for one don't have to tell myself that my SO loves me, or try to convince myself that he wants me and I am not an obligation, he tells me everyday, we are not married and he still chose to stay with me, and the sex is great! So what does that say for your theory, here is his chance to go if he wants there are no strings here. Now you explain to my OW why he is here with me when their relationship is so meaningful and there is soooo much love.<p>Baloney!!<p>Bridgette</strong>[/QUOTE]<p>
Your story is interesting. My first reaction is if your relationship is so wonderful what is your un-obligated SM doing having a relationship with someone else? Is he afraid of his responsibilities to child, is that what keeps him with you?
I have been on both sides here. The OW and the WS. I know why I got involved with MM while I had H and why I stayed in it for 6+ years. Was it the sex? Well, it was incredible, but no. Was it the frustration that the relationship caused both of us in having to come to grips with it's reality? well, no. Was it the great fun we had having to keep it a secret from most people we know? no again. I could go on and on but to keep this short, it was because we were in love with eachother. We couldn't /wouldn't get out because we loved eachother very much. I think relationships are unique and what applies to some doesn't to others. In keeping with that, there is little place for such sweeping generalizations about the whys and what for's. Why do some WS get into A's and if couples in A's are in love, etc all really depends on the people. Why they stay or leave their relationships/marriages also depend on their situations. Maybe in your case their relationship wasn't meaningful, or maybe it was. He could be with you for the same reason I'm with my H and my ex-mm is with his W.

CM, You seem to be avoiding the question that has been asked of you by more than one person. What are you doing on a site called MARRIAGE BUILDERS? Your M and your H obviously mean very little to you. You are only in your M because you feel "obligated". And if by some small miracle you were truly here to rebuild your marriage then I suggest you read all the concepts and principals on this site before you continue to post. If you have read them already then I suggest you go back and read them again. If you are not interested in rebuilding your marriage then you should go elsewhere to whine about the great love that you can not have because your H and kids are standing in your way.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>It appears that CMirandas lover has decided to return to his W and work on his marriage so I fail to see how this relationship could possibly have been as wonderful as described. At least not in his mind. It's sad that CM thinks the OM is doing it just to spare the feelings of the BSs. That may be what he wants CM to think, but it is sad that she actually believes him. It will take much longer for her to get her own marriage back on track while she still believes in the fairytale.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Actually, it wasn't him, it was me who decided that I had to change my life. Yes, I've tried it before and so has he but we always ended up back together. Why? Because we didn't try hard enough. This time, He and I BOTH came to agree that it was not the spouses as much as the children who needed us to be stronger and try harder to repair our marriages. As hard as it is for you to understand this, love can be and was(is) the what kept us in our very long affair. It is why we struggle to get out, not because of a fairytale. I am a grown woman and I know what Love is and what it isn't. And by the way, you are presumtious to think that he and I lie to eachother to keep in the relationship. We have told the hard truth to eachother and yet we remain in love. I'm working on getting past the love and back to my family. Give me a break and don't presume to know what is in mine or my lovers mind or heart.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>CM, You seem to be avoiding the question that has been asked of you by more than one person. What are you doing on a site called MARRIAGE BUILDERS? Your M and your H obviously mean very little to you. You are only in your M because you feel "obligated". And if by some small miracle you were truly here to rebuild your marriage then I suggest you read all the concepts and principals on this site before you continue to post. If you have read them already then I suggest you go back and read them again. If you are not interested in rebuilding your marriage then you should go elsewhere to whine about the great love that you can not have because your H and kids are standing in your way.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Fact- Obligation sends many a WS home. Sorry but it's true.
Fact - I did read the principals. I don't agree with alot of the rude and thoughtless comments made here by the scorned. As such, I will post my responses and opinions as I wish.
Fact - I am not whining, just as you aren't. Although to ears that don't want to hear the other side of it, I soppose that is how you interpret. Some of sweeping statements here are incredible. My H does mean alot to me, that is why I'm working on getting back to him. But don't tell me that I didn't love my om or that he didn't love me and it was some crazy dream. Or others claim to know why he and I are where we are today. Fact is YOU Do Not know, only I do. Which is fine except I have to read the ridiculous statements about what is really going on in mine or OM life. You have no idea so stop acting as if you do.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong><p>Your mind tells your heart who to love. It really IS pretty simple.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I read your comment and thought it was too simplistic. But I kept thinking about it. Tell me more about why you say this. How does this work?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMiranda:
[QB]<p>1. He and I BOTH came to agree that it was not the spouses as much as the children who needed us to be stronger and try harder to repair our marriages.<p>
2. As hard as it is for you to understand this, love can be and was(is) the what kept us in our very long affair. QB]<hr></blockquote><p>1. Oh, those bothersome, uninteresting and totally boring spouses! Why do they not know their places?<p>2. That illusion and those involuntary muscle spasms that makes us feel so, so exciting especially when we know we are being bad, bad, bad...what a thrill. Oooooooooh! The intensity! The heat! The passion! My God! I am so alive when I am naughty! And to feel for just a moment, that it is "I" that is chosen over the boring spouse for just a while makes me feel oh so victorious and special. For two or three minutes, I feel desired above the bothersome, uninteresting spouse!<p>Meow<p>Catnip =^^=

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by catnip:
<strong>Cmiranda<p>To come here and tell us we are "naive" or proclaim an opinion as "What a joke" are completely disrespectful judgments.<p>If you want everyone to to agree with you and not challenge or advise you with your assessments, go to gloryb where like minded people share your views.<p>I apologize for coming off as a snot. Some of what is said here really torques me up. I have been on both sides of this maybe that is why I'm so sensitive. It makes me crazy when the BS (I think I got that right, the w or h of WS) focus on the op and not the marriage. The A is about the op and the ws of course but the fact that it happened I think is about the ws and the bs and their relationship. My marriage isn't perfect and if I told my H, he would sound like everyone here. I'm not saying you are all wrong, you definetely aren't and I want to hear your side of it. But also, you all are much too focused on the relationship (I realize jealously and hurt are driving this) between ws and op. Just as op is way too focused on bs. It makes no sense to generalize and say things like ws never loved her/him, A was meaningless, etc. That is really so off the mark. <p>Don't be such a snot.<p>Catnip =^^=</strong><hr></blockquote>

CM: Well, here I go again! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>"Actually, it wasn't him, it was me who decided that I had to change my life. Yes, I've tried it before and so has he but we always ended up back together. Why? Because we didn't try hard enough."<p>I guess I can understand what you're talking about here, because my WW did something like this herself with her OM - they mutually tried to break of A early on, remained "friends" for several years, then had another PA in the last 1.5 years. Since he's in another state, the frequency was about 3times/yr that they got together, though they emailed each other quite a bit over the last 1.5 yrs. If I hadn't found out about the A in January, they would have "tried the friendship" thing again. W still thinks it's possible, but I won't allow it, period. Won't demand she break contact either, that's her decision, but I've made it clear where I stand for the long term.<p>"This time, He and I BOTH came to agree that it was not the spouses as much as the children who needed us to be stronger and try harder to repair our marriages."<p>To me this doesn't sound like you're being sincere to yourselves. It should be possible to divorce and still be good parents for your kids. If you don't love your spouses, you'll wind up miserable. <p>"As hard as it is for you to understand this, love can be and was(is) the what kept us in our very long affair."<p>I don't think most people on this forum have any trouble understanding this at all. But you need to recognize that you are "too close to the problem" to put it into the proper perspective. It IS/WAS a fantasy and a life of lies, because you weren't being completely honest with your families.<p>"I am a grown woman and I know what Love is and what it isn't."<p>Heck, I'm a grown man and I won't pretend that I can answer the question "what is love?" all that well.<p>"And by the way, you are presumtious to think that he and I lie to eachother to keep in the relationship. We have told the hard truth to eachother and yet we remain in love. I'm working on getting past the love and back to my family. Give me a break and don't presume to know what is in mine or my lovers mind or heart. "<p>Try being HONEST with your families! Why is it okay to not "lie to each other" and yet live a 6-yr lie with your families??? This mystifies me most of all.<p>Having said all that, and in spite of many of the reactions to your posts recently, I think you have a good chance at truly rebuilding your M, if you want to. But you should tell your spouse everything and break off contact with your OM. Notice I'm not suggesting you help OM do anything - how he works on his M (or not) is really not your business, nor is your life any of his business. <p>Relationships are complicated things. Multiple intimate relationships are ridiculous to try to have and maintain, particularly if you have to keep a secret second life to have them. <p>Be honest, your family will be hurt deeply by what's happened, but will ultimately respect you for it.

All:<p>By the way, what ever happened to tobemommy? Seems her problem got hopelessly buried down in the noise when this thread got hijacked.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by catnip:
<strong><p>1. Oh, those bothersome, uninteresting and totally boring spouses! Why do they not know their places?
I don't understand this one.<p>2. That illusion and those involuntary muscle spasms that makes us feel so, so exciting especially when we know we are being bad, bad, bad...what a thrill. Oooooooooh! The intensity! The heat! The passion! My God! I am so alive when I am naughty! And to feel for just a moment, that it is "I" that is chosen over the boring spouse for just a while makes me feel oh so victorious and special. For two or three minutes, I feel desired above the bothersome, uninteresting spouse!<p>So the fact that we cut the incredible sex out of our relationship for 10 months would negate your theory here catnip.
BowWow.<p>Meow<p>Catnip =^^=</strong><hr></blockquote>

CM, Are you or are you not going to come clean to your H? If your answer is no then you are not serious about rebuilding your marriage. Yes, fine, I get it. You are in love with the OM and he with you (fog), but I would love to see how your H would react to this news. I think you will have a whole new perspective on everything once it is out in the open and becomes "real". Until you face this together with your H your marriage will always be a great big lie.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>CM: Well, here I go again! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>"Actually, it wasn't him, it was me who decided that I had to change my life. Yes, I've tried it before and so has he but we always ended up back together. Why? Because we didn't try hard enough."<p>I guess I can understand what you're talking about here, because my WW did something like this herself with her OM - they mutually tried to break of A early on, remained "friends" for several years, then had another PA in the last 1.5 years. Since he's in another state, the frequency was about 3times/yr that they got together, though they emailed each other quite a bit over the last 1.5 yrs. If I hadn't found out about the A in January, they would have "tried the friendship" thing again. W still thinks it's possible, but I won't allow it, period. Won't demand she break contact either, that's her decision, but I've made it clear where I stand for the long term.<p>"This time, He and I BOTH came to agree that it was not the spouses as much as the children who needed us to be stronger and try harder to repair our marriages."<p>To me this doesn't sound like you're being sincere to yourselves. It should be possible to divorce and still be good parents for your kids. If you don't love your spouses, you'll wind up miserable. <p>
"As hard as it is for you to understand this, love can be and was(is) the what kept us in our very long affair."<p>I don't think most people on this forum have any trouble understanding this at all. But you need to recognize that you are "too close to the problem" to put it into the proper perspective. It IS/WAS a fantasy and a life of lies, because you weren't being completely honest with your families.
I know you are right about the lies and living a double life. That is what keeps me going on my trek back. <p>"I am a grown woman and I know what Love is and what it isn't."
Heck, I'm a grown man and I won't pretend that I can answer the question "what is love?" all that well.
I said that because everyone here keeps saying that the om/ow couldn't possibly have loved eachother. (see catnips response to me where all she suggests is that A's are about sex) Until BS realize that the E/PA isn't not about sex you can never really understand it at all.<p>"And by the way, you are presumtious to think that he and I lie to eachother to keep in the relationship. We have told the hard truth to eachother and yet we remain in love. I'm working on getting past the love and back to my family. Give me a break and don't presume to know what is in mine or my lovers mind or heart. "<p>Try being HONEST with your families! Why is it okay to not "lie to each other" and yet live a 6-yr lie with your families??? This mystifies me most of all.
Somehow in my A, he was the only person I felt I could be the real me with. We told eachother the things we could not share with anyone else. You are right, it doesn't justify lying to our famlies. I don't think I could face telling the truth. I want to put it behind me. If I tell my H he will hate me and never forgive me. Why do I want to do this to a relationship I want to repair? Did it help you to know?<p>Having said all that, and in spite of many of the reactions to your posts recently, I think you have a good chance at truly rebuilding your M, if you want to. But you should tell your spouse everything and break off contact with your OM. Notice I'm not suggesting you help OM do anything - how he works on his M (or not) is really not your business, nor is your life any of his business.
Thank you for some words of encouragement. They are the only ones I have gotten so far. When I first came to this site I read some posts and I left for a quite some time because I was afraid to be yelled at and criticized.
I do notice that you don't mention helping om. I can understand that although it does seem severe to just throw him aside like yesterdays newspaper. <p>Relationships are complicated things. Multiple intimate relationships are ridiculous to try to have and maintain, particularly if you have to keep a secret second life to have them. <p>Yes, that is why as a WS I was so happy and yet so miserable that I thought death would be a relief at times. Thankfully I didn't have that much of a desire to be dead.<p>Be honest, your family will be hurt deeply by what's happened, but will ultimately respect you for it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm afraid to do this part. I'm not ready yet. Are you glad to know?

CM, If you are not ready to tell the truth yet then you are not ready to save your marriage.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>CM, Are you or are you not going to come clean to your H? If your answer is no then you are not serious about rebuilding your marriage. Yes, fine, I get it. You are in love with the OM and he with you (fog), but I would love to see how your H would react to this news. I think you will have a whole new perspective on everything once it is out in the open and becomes "real". Until you face this together with your H your marriage will always be a great big lie.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I never even considered it until came here and Dr. H explained why we are soppose to. But I don't know yet if I will. I want the new perspective you talk about but then I think about the hate he will have for me and that is just about enough to stop me. I am pretty sure he won't leave me (I'm not being arrogant) but he will stay and make life unhappier.
If I do tell then wouldn't it be best to be out of mourning for om first?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>CM, If you are not ready to tell the truth yet then you are not ready to save your marriage.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I don't think this is right. Isn't recovery a step at a time? To jump into this by ending love affair, feeling desperation and sad over loss of important relationship (over 6 years with om, feels like I would imagine a death or divorce would feel like) and then create total havoc by telling H? It seems that I would have to be totally irrational to tell him at this stage. I can barely help myself through this right now.

I dont think anyone here is "glad " to know of anyone's pain us having all been there. and we've all been afraid at one point or another. and we all struggle with what is the right thing to do.
It just always nice to know that you aren't alone in whatever it is your going thru.<p>{{ hugs}} to all of the faceless people with the courage to offer insight and support

CM: <p>"Thank you for some words of encouragement. They are the only ones I have gotten so far. When I first came to this site I read some posts and I left for a quite some time because I was afraid to be yelled at and criticized."<p>You're welcome. You won't be the first person to be afraid of the responses from this forum. Hang in there, people really do want to help (because they really do want to BE helped, themselves). <p>"I do notice that you don't mention helping om. I can understand that although it does seem severe to just throw him aside like yesterdays newspaper. "<p>I don't think the MB approach (or any other that insists on no contact with OP) is intended to toss the OP aside. But "saving" the OP is really up to his S and family, and because of the nature of your relationship with him, you can't likely be of much help without risking another A, and you certainly can't focus the attention you need to on your own M and yourself. <p>"Yes, that is why as a WS I was so happy and yet so miserable that I thought death would be a relief at times. Thankfully I didn't have that much of a desire to be dead."<p>You'll find that many (maybe nearly all?) WS's have suicidal thoughts. My W did (sometimes still does) and I certainly did for about a month and a half after D-day. But after starting Cing and posting to this forum, I feel much better about myself these days, and I feel I can do a much better job helping my W feel better about herself, so she won't need to feel like suicide anymore either. That's probably the single most important reason for being honest and telling your H everything about the A, when he can truly start rebuilding himself and your M from his side of the coin, he'll be better able to help YOU overcome your own despair.<p>"'Be honest, your family will be hurt deeply by what's happened, but will ultimately respect you for it.'<p>I'm afraid to do this part. I'm not ready yet. Are you glad to know?"<p>Well, I wouldn't exactly use the term "glad," but I am very very much better off now that I do know. Remember, if I had known about the first PA 11 years ago, I could have been in a better position to deal with it then, and we'd have had a stronger M all this time since then. My W has said many times that she'd prefer that I hadn't found out, that she would have told me eventually. Well, since she had decided to end the A last fall, our R was definiltely improving, and I loved it. I had no idea why it was, though, and I've pointed out that it may have been possible for future withdrawl, for whateve reason, to crop up again at some time down the line, and the whole vicious cycle of A's might just have repeated itself. At best, our M would have been "better" but it wouldn't have been nearly as strong as it looks like it *might* eventually be, now that the A is on the table and we can focus on the issues in our M that enabled it to happen.<p>Hang in there, CM. This will be very, very hard, particularly since your A with OM was so intense for so long and is so recent. I wouldn't "wait until a more opportune moment" to tell your H, but you might meet with a C yourself (and find a GOOD one!) before you break the news, so that you'll hear a professional's perspective on how best to do so.<p>persevere,

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>CM: <p>"Thank you for some words of encouragement. They are the only ones I have gotten so far. When I first came to this site I read some posts and I left for a quite some time because I was afraid to be yelled at and criticized."<p>You're welcome. You won't be the first person to be afraid of the responses from this forum. Hang in there, people really do want to help (because they really do want to BE helped, themselves). <p>"I do notice that you don't mention helping om. I can understand that although it does seem severe to just throw him aside like yesterdays newspaper. "<p>I don't think the MB approach (or any other that insists on no contact with OP) is intended to toss the OP aside. But "saving" the OP is really up to his S and family, and because of the nature of your relationship with him, you can't likely be of much help without risking another A, and you certainly can't focus the attention you need to on your own M and yourself. <p>"Yes, that is why as a WS I was so happy and yet so miserable that I thought death would be a relief at times. Thankfully I didn't have that much of a desire to be dead."<p>You'll find that many (maybe nearly all?) WS's have suicidal thoughts. My W did (sometimes still does) and I certainly did for about a month and a half after D-day. But after starting Cing and posting to this forum, I feel much better about myself these days, and I feel I can do a much better job helping my W feel better about herself, so she won't need to feel like suicide anymore either. That's probably the single most important reason for being honest and telling your H everything about the A, when he can truly start rebuilding himself and your M from his side of the coin, he'll be better able to help YOU overcome your own despair.<p>"'Be honest, your family will be hurt deeply by what's happened, but will ultimately respect you for it.'<p>I'm afraid to do this part. I'm not ready yet. Are you glad to know?"<p>Well, I wouldn't exactly use the term "glad," but I am very very much better off now that I do know. Remember, if I had known about the first PA 11 years ago, I could have been in a better position to deal with it then, and we'd have had a stronger M all this time since then. My W has said many times that she'd prefer that I hadn't found out, that she would have told me eventually. Well, since she had decided to end the A last fall, our R was definiltely improving, and I loved it. I had no idea why it was, though, and I've pointed out that it may have been possible for future withdrawl, for whateve reason, to crop up again at some time down the line, and the whole vicious cycle of A's might just have repeated itself. At best, our M would have been "better" but it wouldn't have been nearly as strong as it looks like it *might* eventually be, now that the A is on the table and we can focus on the issues in our M that enabled it to happen.<p>Hang in there, CM. This will be very, very hard, particularly since your A with OM was so intense for so long and is so recent. I wouldn't "wait until a more opportune moment" to tell your H, but you might meet with a C yourself (and find a GOOD one!) before you break the news, so that you'll hear a professional's perspective on how best to do so.<p>persevere,</strong><hr></blockquote><p>2Long,
You have given me some very good feedback and advice. Thank you for taking the time to do so. I have to think hard on it. Children are involved. If I can make my relatinship better with H in doing so then I think I could find the courage somehow. But the children are a very big concern for me.