The OM was given the opportunity to make his own decision about being in my D's life. He chose to pay CS and have visitation. He sees her 3 times a week for 3 or 4 hrs.
My H is her real daddy though and has accepted her as his own.

C Miranda<p>Perhaps I can give you a look from another standpoint concerning your present dilemma of completing the mourning process before you confess to your H. <p>WIB referred to a 3-year fog and I am here to tell you that it can be much longer than that if you so choose. My precious W put off mourning for over 7 years and what forced her to do it then was the final realization that it was not allowing her to be &#8220;whole&#8221;. Although consciously she did not realize it at the time, her second A and subsequent discovery were signals that she needed help and could not live with this any longer. She obviously wanted to be caught since it was such a transparent ruse that even a dummy like me was suspicious. It was like dumping ice water on me while asleep. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I cannot honestly say that she saw my pain for all of those years, as WIB said she did, but I feel now that she has seen me emerge from my former self (emotionally dysfunctional, withdrawn, pessimistic, etc.). She realizes that I was subconsciously protecting myself emotionally and she was partially responsible for the continuance of this state.<p>Ultimately she is now paying severe consequences for her mistakes. The loss of her sons&#8217; respect and their refusal to even communicate with her is at times more than she can bear (and me as well). <p>I at first did not believe that our marriage could survive after d-day especially after finding continued contact with MM2 but now I know that although a great deal of damage has been done there is no stopping us now from attaining the marriage we envisioned 40 years ago. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>In summary I don&#8217;t need to tell you what your choices are, but I will anyway. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] One, you can continue to indefinitely procrastinate the mourning process. Two, you can attempt to mourn alone and never tell H. Three, you can allow your H to be there with you as you try to rebuild your marriage. IMHO options one and two although possible are not the best paths to take. Sooner or later I feel you will come to the same conclusion that my W came to and it will be much harder then. <p>Perhaps I am being overly optimistic in feeling that your H will be able to handle this now since I don&#8217;t know him, but if you love him and if you can love yourself it will not matter. This will pass and you will both grow from it. Don&#8217;t allow it to fester.<p>God Bless<p>Used long ago
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>The OM was given the opportunity to make his own decision about being in my D's life. He chose to pay CS and have visitation. He sees her 3 times a week for 3 or 4 hrs.
My H is her real daddy though and has accepted her as his own.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>If you had to do it all again once you found out you were carrying om child; would you change anything?

I began the mourning process alone, before I came to this site and learned about the alternatives. I had turned to om for some emotional support in very beginning of my venture back to H but I knew that I had to stop going to him to talk about how miserable I was. It only hurt us both and recovery I see now. I am struggling with turning him away when he needs to call me and just say hi and see how I am or tell me that he isn't doing so great. I don't know if I am strong enough to tell him to stop calling me because deep down I don't want to stop being his friend. (and I don't mean "fuzzy friend" either, real friendship is what we dream we can have someday) See, our "plan" was to eventually be "real" friends and incorporate our spouses into our friendship and do things that couples who are friends really do together. Everything I read here suggests I have to abandon that plan and that we were completely crazy to think someday down the road this could work.? This "plan" was devised before I learned about the importance of telling my H. I did tell OM recently that Dr. H and people here said we should have no contact whatsoever. He said that I should stop coming and listeining to that advice here. I can't imagine what he'd say if I told him I was considering telling my H about him. That is another question, am I soppose to warn OM that I'm going to do something as drastic as tell my H?
I honestly don't want to hurt H, OM, OM wife or children involved but I do want to avoid the perpetual "fog" as it is called here. I want it to end. I worry when I read about how it can take years. I know I can't do this for years, I have only out relationship with OM for 1 month but I want my life back now.

CM, I'm not sure what you are referring to. Would I change having OM in my D's life or would I have changed having the affair even though it gave me a beautiful D?
In the case of the OM, He would have found out about pregnancy anyway. I'm just saying that I didn't force him to do anything where my D was concerned. I let him decide. If it had been totally up to me I would not have him in our lives.<p>In the case of the A. Even though I love my D with all my heart and can not imagine life without her now, if I could go back in time and not have the A I would.

WantItBack,
That was what I wanted to know, if you would want OM in your lives today because he has acknowledged child as his opposed to your H being her true and only Daddy and OM being out of your life for good when A ended? Any person raising a child is their real parent I believe as well. Of course, how could any parent regret having a child no matter how that child came to be. I certainly understand that. What do you plan to tell your D someday when she has to be told why she has 2 fathers?

The truth. That nobody is perfect and we all have bad judgement sometimes. How important it is to be able to give and receive forgivness. How lucky I am that such a beautiful D came out of a situation that was difficult for everyone. And most of all I will let her know how very lucky she is to have so many people who love her so much.

CMiranda:
"I had turned to om for some emotional support in very beginning of my venture back to H but I knew that I had to stop going to him to talk about how miserable I was. It only hurt us both and recovery I see now."<p>This is your sensible side talking.<p>"I don't know if I am strong enough to tell him to stop calling me because deep down I don't want to stop being his friend."<p>This is where your emotions are dominating your thinking.<p>"(and I don't mean "fuzzy friend" either, real friendship is what we dream we can have someday)"<p>Don't know what a fuzzy friend is, but the real friendship never really existed in the first place. It was, at best, a friendship based on lies (to your families).<p>"See, our "plan" was to eventually be "real" friends and incorporate our spouses into our friendship and do things that couples who are friends really do together. Everything I read here suggests I have to abandon that plan and that we were completely crazy to think someday down the road this could work.?"<p>Think about this for a minute. You've had an intense A with this OM for over 6 years without your Spouses' consent or knowledge. What do you think the chances are that they could ever accept your "new" friendship in their lives??? I'm in this very situation right now with my WW. That [censored] OM has robbed me and my family of a part of my W's life for 11 damned years now and she's lied to us the whole time. She still thinks that she can be friends with this guy, and when our D and I say it's impossible, she says she figures she may have to just be alone (since she realizes that living with OM is not possible). Don't you see? Even though she believes she's ended the A with the OM, comments like this where she defends the OM so vehemently just prove that she prioritizes this friendship (really still an EA) above her own family! So, I believe very strongly you should NOT expect your Spoouses to accept any form of this "plan" of yours and OM's in their lives whatsoever. Simply stated, you HAVE TO CHOOSE. The real life of your M (or being single) or this fantasy lie with OM. Not very attractive choices, particularly since choosing your M will have to be by the consent of your H, and he may not want it for himself.<p>"This "plan" was devised before I learned about the importance of telling my H. I did tell OM recently that Dr. H and people here said we should have no contact whatsoever. He said that I should stop coming and listeining to that advice here. I can't imagine what he'd say if I told him I was considering telling my H about him."<p>This man is starting to show his true colors here. He wants you to continue to lie to your own family. He wants you to stop seeking help for yourself. What a selfish jerk!<p>"That is another question, am I soppose to warn OM that I'm going to do something as drastic as tell my H?"<p>Absolutely NOT!!! What you say to your H is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS. What you say to your OM is VERY MUCH your H's business!!!<p>"I honestly don't want to hurt H, OM, OM wife or children involved but I do want to avoid the perpetual "fog" as it is called here."<p>There's no way you can avoid hurting these people. You already have hurt your family, maybe irrevocably. They just haven't lived the pain yet. But they will. If you tell your H about the A before he finds out, the pain may be a bit less, or at least his chances of rebuilding his trust in you may be somewhat greater. Don't worry about OM or his family. That's his problem and none of your business. I honestly wish my W would stop telling me she doesn't want to tell her OM that I know about the A because she doesn't want to hurt him. HURT HIM, dammit! (I don't really mean that, if you don't have to, I'm just reliving my own feelings while I type. Please bear with me). I can't understand how she could be interested in our M, be willing to have hurt ME so much, but be so concerned about OM's feelings. Fog.<p>"I want it to end."<p>Good for you! You have a good chance with that attitude.<p>"I worry when I read about how it can take years. I know I can't do this for years,"<p>Neither can I. Nor is your H likely to have an "easy time" with any of this. But that's life, isn't it? At least you are posting here and getting and giving feedback. I wish my W would do something like this.<p>"I have only out relationship with OM for 1 month but I want my life back now. "<p>I hope you mean the life with your family, not the OM. <p>Good luck to you.

Ok, I hope this works how I want it to. I've been getting the older two kids off to school, and dealing with Abbi at the same time.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I had turned to om for some emotional support in very beginning of my venture back to H but I knew that I had to stop going to him to talk about how miserable I was. It only hurt us both and recovery I see now.<hr></blockquote><p>You are correct in your statement of hurting both you and xOM and your recovery. But, I also want to point out, and you may already "know" this, but your recovery can be so much easier, in the long run, if you tell your H. He can support you and be the "sholder to cry on" instead of xOM. (Oh, and I am going to reffer to your MM as the xOM, because I truly feel you want to correct your mistakes and that is how you now need to view him, as an "x")

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I am struggling with turning him away when he needs to call me and just say hi and see how I am or tell me that he isn't doing so great. I don't know if I am strong enough to tell him to stop calling me because deep down I don't want to stop being his friend. (and I don't mean "fuzzy friend" either, real friendship is what we dream we can have someday) See, our "plan" was to eventually be "real" friends and incorporate our spouses into our friendship and do things that couples who are friends really do together. Everything I read here suggests I have to abandon that plan and that we were completely crazy to think someday down the road this could work.? This "plan" was devised before I learned about the importance of telling my H.<hr></blockquote><p>I can see how it will be hard to have a complete break w/xOM. Especially when the A(again, I am not going to refer to it as a relationship, as it was truly an A that lasted 6+yrs) lasted so long! Yes, you both became close, but at the cost of possibly loosing your M. You now want to work on your M, and repair this damage. I tell you now, it can't be done if you are still "friends" with xOM! You are too used to going to him for your support, and if you want to "change" your relationship to xOM, you can't remain friends! You literally need to choose between the xOM and your M! You can't have both, and have the type of M you say you want! Your H needs to be that friend that you go to!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I did tell OM recently that Dr. H and people here said we should have no contact whatsoever. He said that I should stop coming and listeining to that advice here.<hr></blockquote><p>You know, this almost sounds like what xOM did to me! Like many other's here, my story is LONG, and all over the board! Long story short, H and I decided to have all contact broken on D-day! It wasn't really something we sat down and stated out loud, but I didn't want to have anything more to do w/xOM! Now, there are many reasons why I felt this way, but D-day was a true eye opener! I found out how xOM truly was! He was similar to your xOM's response of wanting to keep contact! He wanted to talk to me, but I would refuse, and H had already told him that I didn't want to talk to him ever again! xOM took it so far as to try to "blackmail" me into talking to him! Pretty pathetic if you actually look at it! But, when you do cut all contact, it just lifts the fog that much quicker! I know, there is a child involved, and I will get to that at the end.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I can't imagine what he'd say if I told him I was considering telling my H about him. That is another question, am I soppose to warn OM that I'm going to do something as drastic as tell my H? <hr></blockquote><p>I don't think you should look at it as "warning" the xOM, just informing him. And, I wouldn't do it in person, or even on the phone. I would suggest emailing him right before you tell H, otherwise, xOM will try to talk you out of telling your H. You really shouldn't be concerned with what xOM would say, as he is not supposed to be a part of your M. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I honestly don't want to hurt H, OM, OM wife or children involved but I do want to avoid the perpetual "fog" as it is called here. I want it to end. I worry when I read about how it can take years. I know I can't do this for years, I have only out relationship with OM for 1 month but I want my life back now. <hr></blockquote><p>I understand not wanting to hurt anyone involved, whether they currently know or not, but the longer you wait, the worse it is going to be. I suggest you look into Usedlongago's story, just to see what it can do to someone when you keep your "secret" so long! It doesn't have to take years to get your fog lifted! But, you have to be willing to lift it!<p>As for the child from this A, What is the deal with that? Does your H believe she(I think I saw that it was a girl) is his child? That is going to be a rough one when you do "come clean" with him. But, it can be worked through! In our case, the A was over before I found out that I was expecting! We also never told xOM about the pregnancy, and my H is and always will be Abbi's Daddy! We will tell all our children what happened, but when they are a little older. And, Abbi will be told as well.<p>You really do sound as if you want your M to work, but you need to break all contact w/xOM! You can not get over the A until that is done. There will always be "something" there that can turn the tide when you least expect it if you continue to be "friends"! It's like what people have been telling MM over on GQII, you are still cheating your H, you are cheating him out of making his own choices regarding your M by not telling him about the A! Give him a chance, you may be surprised at his final reaction! For me, I was expecting H to tell me to leave, and even told him I would if that's what he wanted, but he told me that's not what he wanted, and we are now almost 2 yrs into recovery! Give him a chance to decide, and then go from there! And, stop worrying so much about xOM and his M, that is now his problem to deal with, as you want to repair your own M.<p>I hope this made some sense, and helps you in some way! If you want to know more about my situation, just let me know!<p>Tigger

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2long:<p>
2long,
I hope my reply looks as organized as yours so that you can read it and make sense of it. I havent gotten the skill down yet so bear with me.<p>1. "I don't know if I am strong enough to tell him to stop calling me because deep down I don't want to stop being his friend."
"This is where your emotions are dominating your thinking".<p>I agree but how do I shut off emotions that are equivalent to run away train, its as if they have a life of their own and they aren't mine anymore to control? This is a big struggle. I imagine this is where your W is getting hung up. Change hurts no matter how good it is. An A is a balancing act. If your wife and I are anything alike, she doesn't want to hurt you. But in the quest to improve M you have asked her to be honest. Us ws hide A's in part to keep bs from being hurt. We shelter you like a fragile shell out of fear and out of love and protectivness. Not that you can't bear it or won't but we don't want to put you through it if we can spare you the pain we ourselves are enduring. Why hurt anyone so deeply when you love them? <p>2. "(and I don't mean "fuzzy friend" either, real friendship is what we dream we can have someday)"
"Don't know what a fuzzy friend is, but the real friendship never really existed in the first place. It was, at best, a friendship based on lies (to your families)."<p>Sorry, fuzzy means the kind of friendship I had with my OM. A Friendship clouded by love,sex,quilt,tenderness,concern,hate,jealously,rage,frustration,envy,competition,sorrow,hope,despair all encompassed into 1 relationship<p>3. "See, our "plan" was to eventually be "real" friends and incorporate our spouses into our friendship and do things that couples who are friends really do together. Everything I read here suggests I have to abandon that plan and that we were completely crazy to think someday down the road this could work.?"<p>"Think about this for a minute. You've had an intense A with this OM for over 6 years without your Spouses' consent or knowledge. What do you think the chances are that they could ever accept your "new" friendship in their lives??? I'm in this very situation right now with my WW. That [censored] OM has robbed me and my family of a part of my W's life for 11 damned years now and she's lied to us the whole time. She still thinks that she can be friends with this guy, and when our D and I say it's impossible, she says she figures she may have to just be alone (since she realizes that living with OM is not possible). Don't you see? Even though she believes she's ended the A with the OM, comments like this where she defends the OM so vehemently just prove that she prioritizes this friendship (really still an EA) above her own family! So, I believe very strongly you should NOT expect your Spoouses to accept any form of this "plan" of yours and OM's in their lives whatsoever. Simply stated, you HAVE TO CHOOSE. The real life of your M (or being single) or this fantasy lie with OM. Not very attractive choices, particularly since choosing your M will have to be by the consent of your H, and he may not want it for himself."<p>I don't expect to tell H and he accepts friendship with om. We (OM & me) had originally planned to keep A secret, move out of it and into just a friendship so we wouldn't have to say goodbye for good, and have our spouses become a part of our "new" friendship. I know, it sounds selfish. That is how it sounds as I type this. But at the time it sounded like a good idea. Also, if we could see eachother with our spouses then any feelings we couldn't shutoff on our own would go away having seen OP with their spouse. It did make some sense at the time.. I don't think I believe it anymore.<p>4. "This man is starting to show his true colors here. He wants you to continue to lie to your own family. He wants you to stop seeking help for yourself. What a selfish jerk!"<p>I guess I can't see him as a selfish jerk all the time, although I have called him selfish several times over the years. I thought he doesn't want to believe the principals spoken of here, I sure didn't want to hear any of it at first. He does think we can be friends and sucessfully move past A. He thinks I should be stronger and not rely on "crazy people" to help me. I don't think anyone here is crazy just in desperate need of help through a very hard situation. He is a guy who doesn't talk about feelings or deal with emotions very much because he hates how he feels when he does. Vunerable.<p>5. Absolutely NOT!!! What you say to your H is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS. What you say to your OM is VERY MUCH your H's business!!!<p>I was just thinking that OM should know I was going to tell H so that if my H went nuts and called OM or OM wife, then OM could prepare for worst and hope for best. I don't want to destroy him or his family anymore than I want to ruin my own. I care alot about him. I don't know if I should hope to hate him or feel indifferent toward him..? That can eat up a person just as bad as anything.
6. "...I honestly wish my W would stop telling me she doesn't want to tell her OM that I know about the A because she doesn't want to hurt him. HURT HIM, dammit! (I don't really mean that, if you don't have to, I'm just reliving my own feelings while I type. Please bear with me). I can't understand how she could be interested in our M, be willing to have hurt ME so much, but be so concerned about OM's feelings. Fog."<p>This is what I'm trying to avoid by not telling my H. Spouses don't seem to understand the other side of it and rightfully so. I wouldn't expect him to and likewise you can't understand the twisted loyalty. I'm sure your W is pulled just as I am in that she doesn't want to hurt you or him. But now you know the truth so it becomes much harder to shelter you. She is still in w/d possibly because she still has a friendship with an ex- <p>7. "I hope you mean the life with your family, not the OM."
Yes, that is what my head wants right now very very much. My heart, well, it is struggling to catch up to my brain. I don't know why I can't get in sync. I want to feel about my H as I did before the relationship went downhill. If your wife is with you now she must want the same. I am so confused and brain/heart are so far off track that I can't give you the kind of good advice you have given me. I'm sorry for that. All I can say is this very simple statement: If you W is with you now, after what seems to be an intense A, she is because she wants to be. The reason almost doesn't matter anymore. That is a strong foundation to build on. If you want it, use it to get what you seem to want, back.
You are far beyond me in terms of getting past A. <p>A new question, is a friendship with ex-lover always an EA? Can it ever be just that, a friendship?

I hope this made some sense, and helps you in some way! If you want to know more about my situation, just let me know!<p>Tigger[/QB][/QUOTE]<p>Thank you so much for your reply. I don't have any more time today to post my response but I defintely will tomorrow. I have alot of questions for you.

CMiranda:<p>"how do I shut off emotions that are equivalent to run away train, its as if they have a life of their own and they aren't mine anymore to control? This is a big struggle. I imagine this is where your W is getting hung up. Change hurts no matter how good it is."<p>I don't think you can shut off the emotions. You never will be able to completely. This is why no contact is essential. Yes, this is where my W is getting hung up. It hurts immensely being patient with her, but I have to.<p>"An A is a balancing act. If your wife and I are anything alike, she doesn't want to hurt you. But in the quest to improve M you have asked her to be honest. Us ws hide A's in part to keep bs from being hurt. We shelter you like a fragile shell out of fear and out of love and protectivness. Not that you can't bear it or won't but we don't want to put you through it if we can spare you the pain we ourselves are enduring. Why hurt anyone so deeply when you love them?"<p>The question then comes back to, Why have an A to run away from problems within your M? The answer, of course is: nobody expects the hurt to be this bad when they start, and once they start, it gets harder to stop with time.<p>Sorry, fuzzy means the kind of friendship I had with my OM. A Friendship clouded by love,sex,quilt,tenderness,concern,hate,jealously,rage,frustration,envy,competition,sorrow,hope,despair all encompassed into 1 relationship"<p>This is a good, clear-headed appraisal of an A, if I've ever seen one!<p>"It did make some sense at the time.. I don't think I believe it anymore."<p>Good for you! <p>"He does think we can be friends and sucessfully move past A. He thinks I should be stronger and not rely on "crazy people" to help me. I don't think anyone here is crazy just in desperate need of help through a very hard situation. He is a guy who doesn't talk about feelings or deal with emotions very much because he hates how he feels when he does. Vunerable."<p>My W also thinks the friendship is possible, and has called this website "simplistic and stupid." She's going to have to get over both attitudes, eventually. The more I learn from this site and from C'ing, the less in-line our thinking is becoming. If hers doesn't "evolve," we may wind up not having enough in common anymore. I'm not saying that she can't come up with methods of dealing with our situation on her own, but we'll have to discuss any of them to ever agree whether they're reasonable or not.<p>"I was just thinking that OM should know I was going to tell H so that if my H went nuts and called OM or OM wife, then OM could prepare for worst and hope for best."<p>I didn't call or write OM. Most people don't. I have no desire to see or hear from him. But if my W doesn't get off the fence in a reasonable amount of time and tell him to back off, I sure will. Also, if we end up DV, I will contact him and his W. He should not be rewarded with an opportunity to resume the A with my W, just because she's "free" and he's not.<p>"I care alot about him. I don't know if I should hope to hate him or feel indifferent toward him..? That can eat up a person just as bad as anything."<p>I don't think it's reasonable for us BS's to expect the WS not to care about the OP anymore. That's being demanding. But that's also one of the very reasons for no contact.<p>"This is what I'm trying to avoid by not telling my H. Spouses don't seem to understand the other side of it and rightfully so. I wouldn't expect him to and likewise you can't understand the twisted loyalty. I'm sure your W is pulled just as I am in that she doesn't want to hurt you or him. But now you know the truth so it becomes much harder to shelter you. She is still in w/d possibly because she still has a friendship with an ex-"<p>You won't be able to avoid telling your H forever. Well, you might, but think how miserale you'll be the rest of your life for not being honest with him. And how vulnerable you will continue to be to having another A. Don't presume to know what your H will or will not understand. I actually think I understand my W's predicament a helluva lot better than she does. Mainly due to C'ing and this website. I'm certainly not in a fog now (though I was in one of my own early on, before I realized that *I* am a good person and will survive whatever the outcome of all this). <p>"Yes, that is what my head wants right now very very much."<p>Think about this statement. Your heart wants it too!<p>"If your wife is with you now she must want the same. I am so confused and brain/heart are so far off track that I can't give you the kind of good advice you have given me."<p>But you have, in your own way, by telling me your perspective on your story, which is similar to my W's. This has enabled me to understand a bit more of what's going on in her mind when she won't/can't come out and tell me in her own words.<p>"If you W is with you now, after what seems to be an intense A, she is because she wants to be. The reason almost doesn't matter anymore. That is a strong foundation to build on. If you want it, use it to get what you seem to want, back."<p>That's what I intend to do! Thanks!<p>"You are far beyond me in terms of getting past A."<p>I don't think this is necessarily true. Especially when you do tell your H, you will be in for quite a struggle. But do it!<p>"A new question, is a friendship with ex-lover always an EA? Can it ever be just that, a friendship? "<p>Just Learning gave me some advice about this regarding my W's insistence on the continued friendship. He said to tell her that it would be "okay" with me, if all the truth were revealed to both families and we could all agree that the friendship (which would involve them getting together while on business out of town and away from either family) would be completely harmless to our families and our M's. I'm sure he realized, even as he said that, that the whole concept is prepostrous.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> #1 I want to feel about my H as I did before the relationship went downhill. <p>#2 A new question, is a friendship with ex-lover always an EA? Can it ever be just that, a friendship? <hr></blockquote><p>Hope you don't mind me jumping in here, and don't feel as if I'm taking your first statement above out of context. I just want to say that do you really want to feel the way you did about your H as you did before the A? I ask this because there was something not right in those feelings before, and you could be setting yourself up for another A! You need to re-evaluate how you want to feel about your H, and what you want out of your M to him! I know that I want to feel MORE for my H than I did pre-A! If I felt the same now as I did before, I'm still left open for another OM to come into the picture!<p>#2 I, personally, don't feel that friendship with an xOP is ever a good idea! It is different when you are single, and there was no cheating involved, and you grew apart. But, when you are married, or as in some cases here, have been together as long or longer than some M's, you have an A, and then want to "just be friends", it doesn't work. It was a "relationship" based on lies, so can never be honest! And, it would be too painful for the BS to see this "friendship" between WS and OP! For everyone involved, it is best to have a complete break(hence us never telling xOM about Abbi) for a M to be rebuilt! From my POV, it removes the temptation from WS, and the reminder from the BS.<p>Does that make sense?<p>Tigger

Tigger:<p>"I just want to say that do you really want to feel the way you did about your H as you did before the A?"<p>good point. This whole discussion has steered around the issues wrong in the M that led to the WS's decision to have an A in the first place. Rebuilding the M will have to address these issues as the most important thing. The A is a symptom, not the core of the problem, but it can't be treated as such until it is over and contact is severed.<p>"From my POV, it removes the temptation from WS, and the reminder from the BS."<p>"Does that make sense?"<p>YES. And very well put!

CM, You owe the OM NOTHING. Despite all the declarations of love and commitment and promises of the future that I'm sure were exchanged you have to remember that you did those things with your H first. He is the one who desrves your honesty and your loyalty. I know you don't want to hurt the OM but you have to not want to hurt your H more and by not telling your H the truth and giving him the fair chance to save his marriage that is exactly what you are doing. As far as the OM's W and family goes I know you don't want to hurt them either, but they are his responsibility. He needs to be the one to worry about that, you have way to much to worry about already.<p>No contact at all is a very good idea and helps immensely. From the time I told the OM I was pregnant and the time my D was born (6 months), I had no contact at all with him. If you sever all contact with the OM you will not need to see or hear of any pain that is caused in that direction and will be able to concentrate better on your marriage. Boy, I don't envy where you are now. I do know though that I will never be there again.

Dear CM,<p>Excuse me for jumping in here into a well-established thread. My H and I were off in Russia adopting our two new sons. Yes, we are a recovering couple, moving past his 7-year A and the birth of his child by that affair.<p>Did my H love his lover? I know that this topic was brought up at the beginning of this thread. It hurts to admit it, but yes, I believe that he did love her. I am not surprised that his feelings followed where his genitals lead him. Did he still love me at the time of his (extended) affair? I don't know. Only he can tell you that and he claims that he did. My weight was a large problem for him and apparently, one that he could not or would not find a more honest, decent way of dealing with. So, now we have the horrible consequences of my weight, his affair, his child by that affair and a mess for the rest of our lives.<p>Am I glad I know? Tough, but fair question. I am not glad. There is a part of me that will always wish that I didn't know, but it is a small part of me. Most of me wishes that he had never done this. There are days I would prefer to hide my head in the sand and pretend it never happened, but that would be forgetting the important lessons that we have to learn about this.<p>Did I hate him when I found out? Don't confuse hate with rage. I may have wanted to kill him, but I didn't really hate him. Will you husband hate you? I don't know. He may and that is something you have to own up to. He may not want to continue his marriage with you. My strongest feeling on this is that he deserves the truth from you. No one should be forced to live his or her life based on the lies of the one who supposedly loves them. He has every right in the world to know the truth and to decide for himself what he wants the rest of his life to be. <p>The problem with you cutting off contact with OM and *not* telling your H about the affair is that you are most likely too weak to keep up your resolve. My H ended his A many times over the 7 years and was consistently drawn back into it over and over again. She was desperately in love, he had some feelings of love for her (I will never know how much) but he mostly felt responsible for her pain. I say phooey on her pain. She chose this pain for her life. I was the innocent one in this. What was done to me was done w/o my consent. About three years into his A he went to a priest and confessed his A. The priest asked if he had ended it and my H said yes. The priest then asked if my H would ever go back to the A? H swore that no, he never would. The priest said "Go and sin no more" and "don't cause any more pain in your marriage by telling your wife." It proves how very little the priest knew about human nature and the addictive aspects of affairs. How I wish my husband had told me back when recovery would have been easier--before the conception of his child. <p>I imagine that my message sounds pretty bitter, but that truly isn't the way I live most days. We are almost two years into recovery. We have visitation with his daughter and we both love her. We have just adopted our first two children. Life is improving all the time. However, it really spins me up to hear someone talking about protecting another person by lying to them. I demand honesty in all my relationships. Anything else is pure manipulation and that protection that WSs so often talk about seems to me to be more about protecting themselves than about protecting the spouse. If protecting the spouse had been the object, then they never would have entered into the A. JMO<p>I am glad that this thread has turned around. I do wish you all the best in restoring your marriage. I wish you courage and strength. I hope that your husband is a person who can find forgiveness in his heart.<p>MJ

Mary Janes: "However, it really spins me up to hear someone talking about protecting another person by lying to them. I demand honesty in all my relationships. Anything else is pure manipulation and that protection that WSs so often talk about seems to me to be more about protecting themselves than about protecting the spouse. If protecting the spouse had been the object, then they never would have entered into the A. JMO"<p>Thanks for your comments! This is what frosts my tes*****s, too. And it's what's totally destroyed my trust in my W, which is going to be impossible to rebuild if she insists on having "her privacy" and continuing this "friendship" with OM. <p>No, having an A and lying about it to the BS is not protecting the BS or the family at all. It's all about the WS being selfish, pure and simple.

Man, all this has been pretty close to home for me. I guess I got myself pretty worked up by it. When W came home from work today, tired and all, and after I said "I miss you" said "I've been too busy to miss anybody," I just lost my steam. <p>I'm going to take the night off posting and watch Moulin Rouge with my D.

2long,<p>Hang in there. She has no idea what you are going through. Hope you enjoyed the movie.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Please clarify, what is the meaning of the FOG??