You know how the OW is always telling us how they didn't mean to hurt us and how sorry they are for falling in love with our husbands. <p>Well I thought that this would have been the perfect opportunity for the OW to show her true remorse. But no, that would be hoping for too much.<p>I thought that it would have been so nice if OW called to apologize now that we have DNA results. I asked H if she even asked how I took the news or asked how I was with the news... she didn't.<p>She's selfish and doesn't care about anyone but herself. She didn't care then ... and doesn't care now.<p>They never cease to amaze me. <p>That's OK, I'm still doing the happy dance! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
Z.<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: zebrababy ]</p>

zebra,
I remember you talking about XOW sharing her love deliemmas re: her boyfriend with you... puckering up to be your "friend" (haha!). Now she can't say a decent word about the wrong she's done you both.<p>You are oh so right re: the selishness. May God show them another way...<p>Congradulations again [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Does this mean that we can't joke about her mustache anymore? Man....what more is there to life now?

(((((((Hugs)))))))

ROFLOL,
Twiisty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You know what Twisty ... she will always be my OW, even though OC is not my H's.

So yes.... we can still make fun of her mustache. might I add ... bleached blond mustache.

Still waiting for the hefer to call,
guess she won't,
Z. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Z,

I'm not trying to wreck your happy dance, I think your news is great for everyone in your situation. I just want to say that although we all agree we shouldn't be walking around on egg shells here, the generalizations made about about people as a group are not accurate. Whether someone is selfish for example, is not inherent to whether or not they are an OP. Our perceptions are all about our view from where we are standing in this life. I know how and why you'd think every OP is selfish and self-centered but its just not true. She was wrong and out of line and selfish but that doesn't make us all like her.

I understand that you'd expect some concern by her or apology, and in your situation, I would not think that is too high an expectation. But in other situations where H is the father, selfishness is flying all around the triangle.

I don't how making fun of someone is a good thing. I personally don't have facial hair, but you know what, unless you can look in the mirror and see a flawless person, inside and out, maybe you should think twice about making fun of others here.

A childish trait to indulge in is mocking the person who has hurt you...to pick out something unfortunate about the perpetrator makes us feel a little better soemtimes when we are angry or hurt. Personally, I was so shocked to meet and see what my husband temporary left me for, I said some terrible things about the OW...especially when her soul was as unattractive as her outward shell.

C'mon...allow us to have a little fun at the OW expense and don't take it personally...I think Z is entitled to pout a little or have a bit of a giggle at the OW's moustache. I think it's funny as hell. Meow.

Catnip =^^=

CM,

Why surely you're not trying to rain on my happy dance. In fact you were the ONLY OW that post's on the boards regularly who didn't congratulate me on my original thread:

Tigger, BTDT, Obratti1, MO5 all jumped in to give words of support and encouragement. I find it odd that you didn't. But that's just my observation. And you are sooooooo quick to jump in when anyone lashes out towards their OW. But you couldn't take the time to congratulate me on getting rid of mine forever. I do wonder why that is. Could it be because you too are not quite sure about your child's paternity? Have you had DNA???? Are you feeling like you could be weaving a web without knowing for sure? Please take a moment to remind us whether or not you have had a DNA test. And don't say you child looks just like MM. Mine said that too!

Anyway, back to your comments on my thread.

CM said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the generalizations made about about people as a group are not accurate. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Zebra said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know how the OW is always telling us how they didn't mean to hurt us and how sorry they are for falling in love with our husbands.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The above comment is THE only comment that was gerneralized. In fact I know serval BS who have said that their OW has made that exact comment about how the affair and OC isn't about them.

All other comments on THIS thread were specific to MY OW. No where have I said that my OW is like you or any other xOW that posts on this board.

Just like in times past you personalize any comments made by a BS and make it about you.

Now, I did make some specific comments to you on my other thread. Some of those were about you. If you'd like to comment or respond to them feel free. But this thread.... wasn't about you.

And for my comments regarding my xOW's mustache. Get a grip. You don't even know where that generated from and what the private joke is between Twiisty and I. But, to indulge you, here goes the story:

I went to do my BS duty and drop off food/clothes or whatever charity work I was doing for the day and OW came to the door with bleaching cream above her lip. I found it very odd because she has heavy facial hair above her lip and I couldn't help but wonder how it was going to now look BLONDE, as OW is of african american decent.

I mentioned the visit to Twiisty in chat and she and I laughed about it and she told me that she in fact has facial hair and has to do cosmetic things to reduce it's appearance.

So CM, stop being such a wet blanket. I can laugh and talk about whomever I please and the beauty of this being a free America is that if you don't like it ... don't read it ... and don't post about it.

I still don't understand why it bothers you so much. You aren't my OW. Why do you feel the need to be the poster child for all OW on this forum? You are not their defender, spiritual leader, icon or idol. Please, do us all a favor and stop throwing yourself on a cross for all OW. It's very unflatering.

With that said, I will not stop making fun of my OW here or anywhere else. If I choose to indulge in fun with my friends I will.

Just remember,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> IT AIN'T ABOUT YOU </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Z.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: zebrababy ]</small>

Z,

You are right, I didn't come by and congradulate you. I was not posting much on forum at that time and my initial thought was more about how happy I was for child that he or she was not your H. I didn't know quite how to say that to you so I said nothing. I was also not sure how I could say that I was so baffled at the excitement when H still had an affair. That has been a big problem for me. I would be more focused on the ow than the child but that is my biased opinion so I thought I should not come by and say that to you at that time.

Am not at all quick to defend ow. Not by any means. The harsh and critical words about children, that strikes a nerve with me and I am one of the first to respond, that you would have been right about, but I don't defend ow. I defend myself when I'm lumped into a big bucket. You actuall said more than just one comment in the plural. You said they never cease to amaze you and you said You know how the OW is always telling us how they didn't mean to hurt us and how sorry they are for falling in love with our husbands.
Those comments are what I'm referring to. I'm in no way defending her and if you re-read my post, you will see that. I am saying that not all op are like her.

In my case, there is no need to have a dna test. First, om and I are in agreement that son looks exactly like om. It is actually scary how much so. More importantly, I also had not been with my H for quite some time, 6 weeks to be exact, it would be physically impossible for child to have been conceived by my H. There is not web weaving other than the one I've already constructed with H thinking child is his. How nice for me if that were true. But it is not true. A dna test would be a waste and om said that if I brought son to his parents house, we would not even have to tell them the words, they would know. Son looks very much like om's mother except of course he is a boy. We have no doubts even if he looked exactly like me. I could not get preg. by H if I didn't have sex with him. If I couldn't have fudged the conception date, there would have been no hiding it from h either. If I had other lovers, then a dna test would be necessary, but that is also not the case. My H was first man I was ever with and OM was 2nd. That is my list of lovers in my 33 years. So no, I'm not defending ow or paternity issues in your case.

I'm not making this about me at all. Please do not flatter yourself into thinking your post was taken that far to heart. It wasn't. I maintain that the generalizations about selfishness are not accurate. Alot of selfishness in the triangles that are self disclosed here by others besides fow. I am not an idiot Z, I know when comments are made to me directly and I know when they are not. I am not responding to comments made to me, I posted about generalizations. You knwo what that word means, right?

I stopped reading your post at the sentence about indulging me. I honestly don't give a, I mean I don't care where it came from. I will just repeat what I said earlier, unless you see Miss perfect when you look in the mirror, think hard about throwing stones, whether they are about someones looks or what is wrong with them on the inside. How beautiful are you Z, in and out? When my high profile friends made fun at om's wife at a christmas party because her bangs were cut strait across and obvisouly too short, coupled by a very bad perm, coupled by a very bad outfit, you know what, I told them it was mean and that I wasn't going to hang around and listein to them. If they wanted to join our table, they had better stop and act like the professional adults that they were. Not little girls in 6th grade. Did they know I was his OW, no, they did not. Could I have made his W feel degraded and unwelcome, yes, I could have. Would he have noticed either way, no he was off mingling with the powers that be from our corp office. It just wasn't necessary and it only makes inferior types feel better about themselves. I never did find fun in mocking other people and that is why I thought your comments were offensive. I ignored them in the past, but i noticed. this time I didn't feel much like ignoring it.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

CM, my dear CM,

you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was so baffled at the excitement when H still had an affair. That has been a big problem for me. I would be more focused on the ow than the child </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H and I have recovered from his affair a long time ago. We continue to grow closer day by day and work diligently on POGA, Emotional Needs, Emotional Bank Accounts, etc.

The excitement come from the simple fact that we don't have to deal with xOW ever again. OW has been a non-issue in our marriage, the news generated excitement for the following reasons:

We don't have to pay child support money for an UNWANTED child. (don't even go into the debate about financial responsibility ... we paid our child support ... doesn't mean we had to LIKE it)

We don't have to have xOW trying to pull our heart strings meanwhile hitting my H up for a little nookie on the side (because as she says, no one has to know).

We don't have to deal with the embarassment, yes I said it. Having a child as a result of an affair was EMBARRASSING to myself and my H.

That is why we were excited. That is why we rejoiced. That is why we celebrated. And let me tell you .... you would celebrate too if you were given the opportunity to wipe your slate clean.

You are right. I did use two sentences in the plural. But can you admit that there are more than one OW to the many BS that post here that are super duper selfish? I can name a few:

Gem's
Unsure's
Catnips's
Twiisty's
Stacia's
UnhappyWife's

I could go on, but those are the type OW I was referring to.

CM, you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I defend myself when I'm lumped into a big bucket. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again I repeat ... this post wasn't about you. It was about MY other woman and it was written with the women in mind who could relate. Who have OW in their lives who are very very similar to mine.

You also said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How beautiful are you Z, in and out? I never did find fun in mocking other people and that is why I thought your comments were offensive. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am quite beautiful, inside and out to whom it matters most: God, My husband and my children.

I never did find fun in sleeping with other people's husbands and I find that offensive. Just like I find spitting on the street in public offensive. I just choose not to do it. But I don't get out my bullhorn in the middle of the street and chastise people for doing it. Just like I don't get on a bulletin board and tell you how offended I am that you did something I find offensive.

Bottom line is CM, you got on this thread to tell me how "offended" you were that I made fun of my OW. So you do admit to be on the defense. It is not your place to be the moral compass in my life. In fact it is quite out of line since you are in that glass house built on a foundation of lies.

I will not even touch the paternity issues you posted about. I can't even understand how a grown man who hasn't slept with his wife could possibly be fooled into thinking he was the sperm donor. That whole story you wrote baffles me. I leave that to someone else.

Z.

Z,

So you were dealing with her this whole time even though you had no contact with this child? Oh my. I had no idea, pardon me for that oversite Z.

Can't CS be mailed or garnished without contact with ow? If you have no contact with child, why contact with ow? I continue to be baffled because even though child isn't his, thank God for that child, the affair doesn't go away. Happy dancing for getting beyond the betrayal I'd understand. So, once again, you confronted me about not congradulating you and I gave you my reasons. They have not and will not change. My prayers are with the child in this case. We can all be UNWANTED at some point in our lives so I won't comment to you about your post. You obviously know too how it feels. Lets not go there about child and financial responsibility, I sure do agree on that.

Its okay that you feel embarrased by child. I can understand it. Embarrased H had affair too and now you have to bring it out in the light. I understand how you feel embarrased. But the child not being his doesn't make it go away does it? I would think its more about how the child got here than it's existence. That is how I feel about it.

Ironically, I have no wish to wipe my slate clean. My son came to be because he was meant to be, and I would do nothing to change it. I would have changed my actions after he was conceived. I would have told my H the truth then and had my beloved child either way. You are not correct in your assessment of my desires to change my slate.

All those BS's Husband's OW may very well be selfish. What I"m saying to you is this, don't make it plural and create a bucket and throw us all in it. "They" is lumping us together. I don't think you post was ABOUT me. I don't want to be generalized based on my role of ow. simple.

Beautiful people don't mock others. Reevaluate yourself perhaps. You are feeding something in you to make fun of her or anyones shortcomings or homliness.

You may want to re-read the admin's note here. Discussing our situations, for example, me sleeping with someone elses husband for 7 years and leaving him several months ago, and having a child by him, is not the same as you making fun of someones looks. Why you making such a big deal over it? Why are you so defensive of your right to mock? Why not save your childish discussions for emails? I'm sure your web server has plenty of free space for useless talk such as that.

Bottom line is that I didn't tell you how offended I was, I told you that perhaps you should consider posting about yourself and not come here and post about someone's facial hair. That isn't defensive. There have been many posts here by BS who say lately we are off track. That is what its about, you are off track posting here about such nonsense. Out of line, oh, okay!! How about if you keep track of your troubles.

I am okay with you remaining baffled. Simply put, I told you what I did to let you hear loud and clear that I'm not your H's ow and I am not in the same situation. That is all, I need not have you understand anymore than that.

Man o man CM, how I wish you and I could chat so you could get to know me and I you. The forum does such injustice on "coversations". The time delay is truely a hinderance. But I will try to bridge that here:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you were dealing with her this whole time even though you had no contact with this child? Oh my. I had no idea, pardon me for that oversite Z.
Can't CS be mailed or garnished without contact with ow? If you have no contact with child, why contact with ow?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are pardoned for the oversight. Yes, even though we did not have traditional visitation we still delivered money, food, clothes, living room suite, cribs, toys in person. It was by choice that I delivered most times so that I could give H an update on the health and well being of what we thought was his child.

You see, my husband isn't a cold callous man who didn't give a rats behind about that baby. He, like many other men, felt it would be an injustice to only partially incoorporate that child into our lives. Not only because of the searing pain that was remembered every time we saw her, but because of her mother's antics. My H refused to allow her to continually toruture us with inuendos, blatant passes, guilt trips, etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I continue to be baffled because even though child isn't his, thank God for that child, the affair doesn't go away.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are very right the affair doesn't go away, but it does become even less insignificant now that there isn't a child as a result of it. Just like if you were arrested for a DUI, it's still on your record, but if you happen to not kill someone in the process of that DUI it makes it a whole entirely new tragedy affecting more than one or two people.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Happy dancing for getting beyond the betrayal I'd understand. So, once again, you confronted me about not congradulating you and I gave you my reasons. They have not and will not change. My prayers are with the child in this case. We can all be UNWANTED at some point in our lives so I won't comment to you about your post. You obviously know too how it feels. Lets not go there about child and financial responsibility, I sure do agree on that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are quite right, it is a terrible thing to feel unwanted. Thankfully this child will now never have to grow up with that burden.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Its okay that you feel embarrased by child. I can understand it. Embarrased H had affair too and now you have to bring it out in the light. I understand how you feel embarrased. But the child not being his doesn't make it go away does it?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually it does. We don't have to be embarassed about him father a child out of wedlock. I thought that was obvious. I think we can agree that a child as a result of the affair is quite the minority in the community of couples who have had affairs. You can see by the numbers of members of this section of the forum compared to the other areas of the forum.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would think its more about how the child got here than it's existence. That is how I feel about it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is about how the child got here. It got here by a woman who played russian roulette with a lot of peoples lives. It's existence is now, officially, not my husband's responsibility.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ironically, I have no wish to wipe my slate clean. My son came to be because he was meant to be, and I would do nothing to change it. I would have changed my actions after he was conceived. I would have told my H the truth then and had my beloved child either way. You are not correct in your assessment of my desires to change my slate.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to wipe your child's existence from the face of the earth. I meant given the opportunity to have done things different like tell you H right away, or if by some grace of God your H was the father.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All those BS's Husband's OW may very well be selfish. What I"m saying to you is this, don't make it plural and create a bucket and throw us all in it. "They" is lumping us together.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure what you would have preferred I said, "They, OW like mine and others I've read about, never cease to amaze me." I'm sorry if I didn't qualify my statement exactly to your liking. When people say positive and negative things about women in general I realize that I may or may not be included in that generalization. Let me give you an example:

If someone says, women are the mother's of earth they are inherintly maternal. Well I know this to not be true. I know many women who have chosen not to have kids because the recognize they are not the "maternal" type. In fact in my household I am more the traditional father. I'm the breadwinner who climbs the corporate ladder to provide for my family. While my H is the maternal type who does the majority of the bathing, homework, playing, etc. He's the one that comes up with all the cool games and ideas for entertainment. It doesn't mean I love my kids any less, he just better at being a mom than I am.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think you post was ABOUT me. I don't want to be generalized based on my role of ow. simple.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Contradiction big time. You know it wasn't about YOU, but YOU don't want to be generalized? I don't think you see your condradiction.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may want to re-read the admin's note here. Discussing our situations, for example, me sleeping with someone elses husband for 7 years and leaving him several months ago, and having a child by him, is not the same as you making fun of someones looks.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did read the admin's note, many times in fact. My point that you completely missed is that I and you or anyone else is not the moral compass of this forum. If you are offended, so be it, but it doesn't give you the right or authority to slap me or anyone on the hand because they did something you deem as offensive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why you making such a big deal over it? Why are you so defensive of your right to mock? Why not save your childish discussions for emails? I'm sure your web server has plenty of free space for useless talk such as that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am making a big deal out of it because I tire of you popping in on threads that have nothing to do with you or your situation to tell me and others what it is we are doing that is wrong or offends you. This is all coming from someone who hasn't even started the first step of Harley's Principles: POJA, Radical Honesty, etc. If I could underline honesty I would.

When you start your own forum you can then decide what is useless and what is not and then edit accordingly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bottom line is that I didn't tell you how offended I was, I told you that perhaps you should consider posting about yourself and not come here and post about someone's facial hair.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This post was not started about facial hair. It was started to share with my FRIENDS about MY xOW and how I felt she wasn't sorry for her actions. Her mustache was brought up and I responded to my friend's post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There have been many posts here by BS who say lately we are off track. That is what its about, you are off track posting here about such nonsense. Out of line, oh, okay!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I repeat, when you become forum moderator you can edit as you see fit. But until then I can post about the color of my underwear or the shade of lipstick my OW wears if thats what intrests me and my FRIENDS are interested in replying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How about if you keep track of your troubles.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is my favorite part of your post. Reminds me of when we were in kindergarden and fighting on the playground and out of frustration one of the kids yells, "so, I'm gonna tell my mom." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Guess what CM, I have no troubles now ... No OW and No OC. Glory!

Now, if you'd like to debate further I'd be glad to chat with you one night. Are you an aim or aol user???
Let me know and I'll post my name one day when I see you on the forum. I think you'd be surprised at what kind of person I am.

Z.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: zebrababy ]</small>

Man o man CM, how I wish you and I could chat so you could get to know me and I you. The forum does such injustice on "coversations". The time delay is truely a hinderance. But I will try to bridge that here:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you were dealing with her this whole time even though you had no contact with this child? Oh my. I had no idea, pardon me for that oversite Z.
Can't CS be mailed or garnished without contact with ow? If you have no contact with child, why contact with ow?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are pardoned for the oversight. Yes, even though we did not have traditional visitation we still delivered money, food, clothes, living room suite, cribs, toys in person. It was by choice that I delivered most times so that I could give H an update on the health and well being of what we thought was his child.

You see, my husband isn't a cold callous man who didn't give a rats behind about that baby. He, like many other men, felt it would be an injustice to only partially incoorporate that child into our lives. Not only because of the searing pain that was remembered every time we saw her, but because of her mother's antics. My H refused to allow her to continually toruture us with inuendos, blatant passes, guilt trips, etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I continue to be baffled because even though child isn't his, thank God for that child, the affair doesn't go away.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are very right the affair doesn't go away, but it does become even less insignificant now that there isn't a child as a result of it. Just like if you were arrested for a DUI, it's still on your record, but if you happen to kill someone in the process of that DUI it makes it a whole entirely new tragedy affecting more than one or two people.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Happy dancing for getting beyond the betrayal I'd understand. So, once again, you confronted me about not congradulating you and I gave you my reasons. They have not and will not change. My prayers are with the child in this case. We can all be UNWANTED at some point in our lives so I won't comment to you about your post. You obviously know too how it feels. Lets not go there about child and financial responsibility, I sure do agree on that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are quite right, it is a terrible thing to feel unwanted. Thankfully this child will now never have to grow up with that burden.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Its okay that you feel embarrased by child. I can understand it. Embarrased H had affair too and now you have to bring it out in the light. I understand how you feel embarrased. But the child not being his doesn't make it go away does it?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually it does. We don't have to be embarassed about him father a child out of wedlock. I thought that was obvious. I think we can agree that a child as a result of the affair is quite the minority in the community of couples who have had affairs. You can see by the numbers of members of this section of the forum compared to the other areas of the forum.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would think its more about how the child got here than it's existence. That is how I feel about it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is about how the child got here. It got here by a woman who played russian roulette with a lot of peoples lives. It existence is now officially, not my husband's responsibility.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ironically, I have no wish to wipe my slate clean. My son came to be because he was meant to be, and I would do nothing to change it. I would have changed my actions after he was conceived. I would have told my H the truth then and had my beloved child either way. You are not correct in your assessment of my desires to change my slate.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to wipe your child's existence from the face of the earth. I meant given the opportunity to have done things different like tell you H right away, or if by some grace of God your H was the father.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All those BS's Husband's OW may very well be selfish. What I"m saying to you is this, don't make it plural and create a bucket and throw us all in it. "They" is lumping us together.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure what you would have preferred I said, they, OW like mine and others I've read about, never cease to amaze me. I'm sorry if I didn't qualify my statement exactly to your liking. When people say positive and negative things about women in general I realize that I may or may not be included in that generalization. Let me give you an example:

If someone says, women are the mother's of earth they are inherintly maternal. Well I know this to not be true. I know many women who have chosen not to have kids because the recognize they are not the "maternal" type. In fact in my household I am more the traditional father. I'm the breadwinner who climbs the corporate ladder to provide for my family. While my H is the maternal type who does the majority of the bathing, homework, playing, etc. He's the one that comes up with all the cool games and ideas for entertainment. It doesn't mean I love my kids any less, he just better at being a mom than I am.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think you post was ABOUT me. I don't want to be generalized based on my role of ow. simple.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Contradiction big time. You know it wasn't about YOU, but YOU don't want to be generalized? I don't think you see your condradiction.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may want to re-read the admin's note here. Discussing our situations, for example, me sleeping with someone elses husband for 7 years and leaving him several months ago, and having a child by him, is not the same as you making fun of someones looks.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did read the admin's note, many times in fact. My point that you completely missed is that I and you or anyone else is not the moral compass of this forum. If you are offended, so be it, but it doesn't give you the right or authority to slap me or anyone on the hand because they did something you deem as offensive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why you making such a big deal over it? Why are you so defensive of your right to mock? Why not save your childish discussions for emails? I'm sure your web server has plenty of free space for useless talk such as that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am making a big deal out of it because I tire of you popping in on threads that have nothing to do with you or your situation to tell me and others what it is we are doing that is wrong or offends you. This is all coming from someone who hasn't even started the first step of Harley's Principles: POJA, Radical Honesty, etc. If I could underline honesty I would.

When you start your own forum you can then decide what is useless and what is not and then edit accordingly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bottom line is that I didn't tell you how offended I was, I told you that perhaps you should consider posting about yourself and not come here and post about someone's facial hair.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This post was not started about facial hair. It was started to share with my FRIENDS about MY xOW and how I felt she wasn't sorry for her actions. Her mustache was brought up and I responded to my friend.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There have been many posts here by BS who say lately we are off track. That is what its about, you are off track posting here about such nonsense. Out of line, oh, okay!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I repeat, when you become forum moderator you can edit as you see fit. But until then I can post about the color of my underwear or the shade of lipstick my OW wears if thats what intrests me and my FRIENDS are interested in replying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How about if you keep track of your troubles.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is my favorite part of your post. Reminds me of when we were in kindergarden and fighting on the playground and out of frustration one of the kids yells, "so, I'm gonna tell my mom." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Guess what CM, I have no troubles now ... No OW and No OC. Glory!

Now, if you'd like to debate further I'd be glad to chat with you one night. Are you an aim or aol user???
Let me know and I'll post my name one day when I see you on the forum. I think you'd be surprised at what kind of person I am.

Z.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: zebrababy ]</small>

Z,

"You are very right the affair doesn't go away, but it does become even less insignificant now that there isn't a child as a result of it. Just like if you were arrested for a DUI, it's still on your record, but if you happen to not kill someone in the process of that DUI it makes it a whole entirely new tragedy affecting more than one or two people."

I can empathize with this analogy.

"Actually it does. We don't have to be embarassed about him father a child out of wedlock. I thought that was obvious. I think we can agree that a child as a result of the affair is quite the minority in the community of couples who have had affairs. You can see by the numbers of members of this section of the forum compared to the other areas of the forum."

While this section is much smaller, I think that this is something that people tend not to talk about. I came here after many years. I'm sure it happens alot more than you realize.



"I'm not sure what you would have preferred I said, "They, OW like mine and others I've read about, never cease to amaze me." I'm sorry if I didn't qualify my statement exactly to your liking. When people say positive and negative things about women in general I realize that I may or may not be included in that generalization..."

I am simply pointing out that this was a generalization that caught my attention and so I responded. It really is that simple. We can go around and around on it, we are obviously not agreeing.

I too am the breadwinner and the one who goes out and earns my families living. So the generalization about men being the ones who take care of their family would be the same kind of statement relative to you as ow being selfish was to me.

"Contradiction big time. You know it wasn't about YOU, but YOU don't want to be generalized? I don't think you see your condradiction."

You are missing my entire point. I know you were not referring to me, ME CMIRanda. I am saying to you that by lumping ow into a bucket, you've taken anyone who has or does hold that title and pulling us all together via a sweeping statment. I see no contradiction because there is none.

"I did read the admin's note, many times in fact. My point that you completely missed is that I and you or anyone else is not the moral compass of this forum. If you are offended, so be it, but it doesn't give you the right or authority to slap me or anyone on the hand because they did something you deem as offensive."

You're right, we are not the moral compass. This isn't a public forum as we were reminded. I'm not slapping you, if you re-read my orginal post you will see that. I am telling you that I am not selfish because you refer to 'they' OW's as such.

"I am making a big deal out of it because I tire of you popping in on threads that have nothing to do with you or your situation to tell me and others what it is we are doing that is wrong or offends you. This is all coming from someone who hasn't even started the first step of Harley's Principles: POJA, Radical Honesty, etc. If I could underline honesty I would."

You can continue to make a big deal out of it, have fun. I am not interested in appeasing you any longer. You told me that if I don't like it, don't read it. Well dear, practice what you are preaching. Who is playing moral compass leader now? Oh, that would be a contradiction.
You really hope to defocus this off of you and onto me. Too bad, I won't bite.

"When you start your own forum you can then decide what is useless and what is not and then edit accordingly."

I have already decided. And so have many others here who have pointed out that we are off track. Since your life has no more worries or troubles, you are here, why? To point out that I'm not moving fast enough for you? Oh well.

"This post was not started about facial hair. It was started to share with my FRIENDS about MY xOW and how I felt she wasn't sorry for her actions. Her mustache was brought up and I responded to my friend's post."

I know what was said about facial hair and your Husband's ex-other woman. We can debate and rebut forever here. Getting us nowhere.

"Again, I repeat, when you become forum moderator you can edit as you see fit. But until then I can post about the color of my underwear or the shade of lipstick my OW wears if thats what intrests me and my FRIENDS are interested in replying."

I don't think the site was created for that purpose, but i could be wrong. Didn't you read the admin's message? Oh, you did but feel you can run things your way? Fine by me, but we'll use your rule to apply against you tiring of me popping up. Yes, indeed. Until you become moderator or bring up your own site, tire as you will.

"This is my favorite part of your post. Reminds me of when we were in kindergarden and fighting on the playground and out of frustration one of the kids yells, "so, I'm gonna tell my mom." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Guess what CM, I have no troubles now ... No OW and No OC. Glory!"

Kinda how i felt reading your mock someones looks. Kinda what we are doing now. Getting nowhere all because you've grown tired.
Would no troubles be why you felt the need to have others talk you down? Throw no stones for they will act as a boomarang and come back on you.

"Now, if you'd like to debate further I'd be glad to chat with you one night. Are you an aim or aol user???"

No interest even in prolonging this. I know all I need to about you from this board. Lets call it a day and onward I do say. I am of course speaking for me, the moderator of me says, onward.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

I have to add my 2 cents to this thread.

CM-

I met Z here on MB we do chat a lot too. She is a very beautiful person inside and out. More in the inside where it counts. She has done things for exOW and OC that I would never do! Why, because she is a good woman. She doesn't need me to defend her she did a great job on her own. I think you should take the time to research some old threads before you jump to conclusions. If you took the time to chat with her like I did you would get to know why everyone said if it couldn't happen to them they were happy it was her.

I would like to comment on a few things that you posted.

" I would be more focused on the ow than the child but that is my biased opinion "

One once the affair ends and exOW is no longer part of the WS's life they mean nothing. They no longer have anything to do with the marriage. A part of recovery is to find out what was wrong with the marriage to find out why the WS cheated and for both parties to make changes to improve the marriage. IF there is a child and the couples choose contact. exOW still has no say in the marriage she is OC's mother and that's that. My IC said, "There is no need to even discuss exOW unless it pertains to the child she has no position in your marraige." A BS's once she's on the right path to recovery and it takes some of us longer than others no longer cares about the OP.

I also had not been with my H for quite some time, 6 weeks to be exact, it would be physically impossible for child to have been conceived by my H. There is not web weaving other than the one I've already constructed with H thinking child is his. How nice for me if that were true. But it is not true. A dna test would be a waste and om said that if I brought son to his parents house, we would not even have to tell them the words, they would know. Son looks very much like om's mother except of course he is a boy. We have no doubts even if he looked exactly like me. I could not get preg. by H if I didn't have sex with him. If I couldn't have fudged the conception date, there would have been no hiding it from h either.

This scares me! You are actually getting on Z case for joking with Twiisty about exOW mustache!!

I and others post on this site to rebuild our marriage and sometimes we vent here so we can get others that are going through this in put. (Sometimes from all three sides bs, ws, and OP) This prevents us from LB's which can bring up all sorts of triggers.
Until you are ready to come clean to your H and stop forcing him to raise your illegitimate child how dare you attack others? If your H had not been lied to, he too might be here venting. Or he might have left you and decided to marry someone who would not force parentage on him. But you have not given him that choice and until you do don't ever tell someone else what this site is for. Especially someone that USED the principles that this site provides and APPLIED them to their marriage and is in strong recovery.

I don't normally get involved in debates but I couldn't believe you had the nerve!

Unsure

PS-I saw what you wrote on Twiisty's thread if OM wanted to be a part of his child life there was nothing you could say or do to stop him. Any man and it doesn't matter if they were WS, BS, OM, MM, and or just a single guy, would not allow anyone to keep them out of their childs life unless they didn't want to be a part of it. He will say or do anything to keep his wife from finding out. If you tell your H the truth and he decides to end the marriage, see what OM tune is when he has to pay CS and the wifey finds out. Good luck and remember if you do dirt it will come back and see you.

I will not get into a debate with you any response of an acrimonious nature will be ignored.

CM

I am not an OW nor a BS ... just someone browsing and looking to build a stronger relationship by learning from others. So I have no stake in this debate.

But as an observer, I am really worried about your child. You don't realize how much you could potentially harm him by letting him build a relationship with a man who may not be his father! What will happen to him when your husband finds out and what if he decides not to accept the child. The child will lose someone he has bonded with. This seems really cruel to the child not to mention your husband. Commenting on someone's appearance where don't know about it seems trivial in comparison.

Please love your child enough to be honest with him and your husband. I am not trying to hurt or bait you, I just worry about the dangers you are exposing yourself and your child to, not to mention taking away your husband's choices.

PS-I saw what you wrote on Twiisty's thread if OM wanted to be a part of his child life there was nothing you could say or do to stop him. Any man and it doesn't matter if they were WS, BS, OM, MM, and or just a single guy, would not allow anyone to keep them out of their childs life unless they didn't want to be a part of it. He will say or do anything to keep his wife from finding out. If you tell your H the truth and he decides to end the marriage, see what OM tune is when he has to pay CS and the wifey finds out. Good luck and remember if you do dirt it will come back and see you.

I will not get into a debate with you any response of an acrimonious nature will be ignored.[/QB][/QUOTE]

USure,
You came here and made several erroneous comments and I only read the P.S part, particularly about my post on twistly's thread, have no idea what you are talking about by the way in your comment here. Maybe you need to go back and re-read it. It wasn't about her H it was about his families feelings. If OP cares at all about his family and his OP, and the child, he most certainly WILL consider giving up his right to that child if that is what is best.
I have a very good idea of what to expect. I wasn't with a man for 7 years and not know him. I knew too much.
My H told me that he treated me pretty badly and that no matter what, he'd never leave me. I'm honestly not that worried. I have other concerns but that isn't one of them.
Like I said, I caught the end of you post, by accident really, and since you are not interested in letting me respond to what said in the body of your post, I am too ignoring all of it and will not respond to it, and I will hold you to not responding to me. Thank you. My simple post has caused a riot all because she is tired. I am onward and done here at this thread. Follow what Z said to me, it applies to us all, if you don't like it, don't read it and don't post to it. I've got nerve? Plenty of you do.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We are just happy to have them out of our lives and nothing hanging over our head. It's like we can close that chapter forever in our lives. It was a painful reminder to BOTH of us and now we can just sweep it far under the rug. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He expressed that he was relieved that the burden was removed from our family and that we as a couple could grow even closer without that "dirtiness" lingering in the air.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you don't really think it's going to be that easy. If you just sweep the fact your H almost had a child with another woman under the rug, you will never truly heal from this. It seems as though the chances were very high it could have been his child, so he was having sex with her obviously.

I am relieved for the child that he/she does not have to grow up with angry BS's on both sides not really liking his/her presence. (Even though it isn't their fault they are brought into situations like this.)

It is good news, but please, don't just sweep anything under the rug.

Oh, and you do have a right to gloat, after what you have been put thru.

FindingMyWayBack,

Thank you very much for posting. I've never met you and perhaps you don't know my entire situation. Or maybe you misinterpreted what I meant when I said "sweeping this mess under the rug".

Fact is, we have dealt with my husband's infidelity. Obviously if he thought this was his child the only possible conclusion is they slept together. That has been addressed in our marriage and I am happy and proud to say we are full swing into recovery.

We practice MB principles religiously and are both two completely different people than we were pre-affair. Both of us have addressed our serious behavior flaws that created an environment prime for affairs and divorce!

Sweeping under the rug meant to not have the serious reality of paying child support for the next 18 or more years, or having the constant invasion of the OW in our lives, and all the other baggage that comes with having a child as a result of an affair. All that crap is the crap that will be swept under the rug.

His affair woke us both up from a very deep fog and we are forever grateful for having a second chance at our marriage.

I wish I could show a video of how we are now in those quiet late night moments when the children are asleep and we are enjoying one another's company. Or how when we are on our knees praying thanksgiving to God for pulling us through the fire and touching our lives and our marriage.

Believe me ... we didn't need the constant reminder of an OC to realize that we have both got to work to keep our marriage strong. Just looking into each other's eyes reminds us of how we need to love each other to keep us happy!

you said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you don't really think it's going to be that easy. If you just sweep the fact your H almost had a child with another woman under the rug, you will never truly heal from this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Marriage is HARD work, we both realize this. But I'm not sure what you think we should do, continue to morn over the fact that he had sex with someone else, or cry that he almost had a child with someone else. It is a chapter closed. Lesson learned over the last 1.5 years. Now we focus on maintaining our newfound love and respect for each other.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It seems as though the chances were very high it could have been his child, so he was having sex with her obviously.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Um, I thought this was obvious too, but thank you for reminding me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am relieved for the child that he/she does not have to grow up with angry BS's on both sides not really liking his/her presence. (Even though it isn't their fault they are brought into situations like this.)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am to relieved that OC has an opportunity to have both biological parents love her. I'm glad that God gave her that chance. I am truely sorry that her mother robbed her of that for two years.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is good news, but please, don't just sweep anything under the rug.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the major reasons people DONT recover is they can't let go. BS's often wear their crown of thorns for an eternity. That doesn't promote healing. There is a grieving period, and anger period, but at some point you forgive and let go. Anything bad shouldn't be held on to. You have to close that chapter in your life and move forward. I grieve for the couple that can't get to that point.

Again, thank you for your comments. I hope you got a better understanding of who I am and what I'm about.

Z.

You are correct, I don't know much of your story. I don't expect you to mourn forever, all I'm saying is don't be too eager to trust. That is coming from a WS.

I am sure it is something you might be able to forgive him for, but you won't forget it. You will have triggers. It's human nature.

I am VERY happy for you that this has been cleared up, and you and your H can continue to rebuild without out this issue hanging over you.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. Good luck with your recovery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zebrababy:
<strong>Sweeping under the rug meant to not have the serious reality of paying child support for the next 18 or more years, or having the constant invasion of the OW in our lives, and all the other baggage that comes with having a child as a result of an affair. All that crap is the crap that will be swept under the rug.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm... I say sweep the xOW's doodoo all the way out of the house and let the WIND BLOW IT FOREVER AWAY never to return!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />