In a recent thread by Lemonpie, "K" wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, in the beginning this site was for people trying to use MarriageBuilder's principles to build a marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My understanding has always been that this Forum is intended to support and reinforce the principles that we learn through MarriageBuilders.

I have noticed that lately there have been a number of clashes on this Board, and I stopped posting for a while because I was tired of being attacked for every word that I had to say. But the statement made by "K" is the basis for understanding for us all.

Could we all just try to concentrate on the basic principles -- avoid disrespectful judgements, respect the marriage above any other relationship, including the OC, be honest with our spouses, and expect to make decisions based on joint agreements. If we are all acting in this manner then we should all be on the same page. If we are not, then we are not following the MarriageBuilders principles and this is not the forum for us.

I would also like to encourage others not to attack without knowing something about the poster and understanding his or her situation. Sometimes it is very easy to see that the poster is in extreme pain and/or confusion and what they are posting seems very harsh but is only a result of their anger or sadness. If we are a support group we should be helping that person to re-direct their anger and pain in an appropriate and healing way.

So go ahead and bash me and tell me I have no right to tell anyone what to do. Everyone on this forum has a choice -- you can be part of the problem or part of the solution. This is a public forum and we have to cater to many types of people, with different backgrounds and different types of problems. I am not telling anyone what to do -- I am appealing to everyone to be part of the solution.

By accepting the basic MB principles into our lives and conducting ourselves from that starting point, we can all have some common ground of understanding. I completely agree with "K" when he said that anyone advocating actions other than the MB principles should be "unceremoniously booted out of here" (I am paraphrasing K, sorry if I did not get it right!)

So, what do you say? Can we now draw a line between the "old" MB and the "new" MB and start playing nice? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

praying for us all with love,
heavenly

Thank you, Heavenly...you are the voice of reason in the wilderness.

You put everything into perspective without rancor...I bow to your evolution and aspire to be more like you. I apologize for being rigid.

You are right, though. Just to be more compassionate towards those in pain and not take what they say personally would make things go a lot smoother around here. I know Lemonpie meant no disrespect. She was just in an enormous amount of pain and just raging. Those of us who have not done that can cast the first stone, I suppose.

I know I have a real problem with OW's coming here with their opinions and rationalizing. And the ones who claim they are working on their marriages and have a right to be here also are the first ones to jump on the bandwagon to defend OW's and their points of view, which makes them suspect to me. It makes this place seem unsafe instead of a haven, and I react badly. I know I am territorial of our site and protective of our members, too. I don't see that changing, but maybe I can temper that.

But, I promise to focus more on the principles and less on the personalities, like in a Twelve Step program where it warns that we must adhere to the principles.

Thanks, Heavenly...once again, you da woman.

Love

Catnip =^^=

It has been interesting for me to watch the evolution here. MB is flooded with OW. GB is flooded with BS's. Hopefully at the end of the day we help one another more than we hurt.

I know that I have pissed off some people in my time here. But i've learned a ton.

For what it's worth I did leave a 10 year EMA in July of 2001 and as a living ammends to his W I have had absolutely NC for a long time now. That change is due in part to the things that I have seen/learned/come to understand here at MB.

Certainly there will be those who come to start trouble. Certainly people will push one another's buttons. But I think that one heck of a lot of healing goes on here too reguardless of what it looks like sometimes.

Heavenly,

I agree with Catnip, you have always been the voice of reason through everything you have been through yourself!

I, too, have been frustrated in the past as the board has moved past the original purpose of this site, and that's rebuilding marriages.

I truly feel for these new emotions that lemonpie has been thrown into! From what I understand of her current situation, there was no contact for the past year, and now, all of a sudden, her H wants contact again. That is a major thing for most wives to deal with! If my reply to her questions offended her, I apologize, and I was just being honest in all my answers. I sit here now, and look back and think "Where the he!! was my brain?!?!" Back then, it was pure selfishness! Now, I can see it was also a HUGE dose of stupidity added into it too!

I still feel that many here, who are still so very angry, have not truly forgiven the offenders(WS and OP both!). And, that forgiveness needs to be given, whether asked for or not, in order for true healing to begin! To coin that old phrase, "Let go and let God!"

Maybe we all should re-read the principles on this site, and start practicing them again!

Just my $.02.
Love,

Tigger

Dear Catnip, Katie and Tigger,

I was attempting to have the regular posters pause for a moment and look at how we have been treating each other.

Obviously Lemonpie was in a great deal of emotional turmoil and pain when she started asking questions about OWs and what they think. It may not be easy for people to understand -- especially those of you who are raising the OC or have visitation -- how emotionally upsetting it is to have your spouse say after one year that he would like visitation.

It is very much like surviving a potentially fatal disease only to have it resurface again in a year. It is most definitely back to square one -- like D-Day all over again.

Lemonpie was striking out against the world, her H, the OW, the OC, everything and everyone who was closing in on her and destroying her world for a second time. Jenny pointed out in a very sensitive manner that perhaps she was being a bit harsh. But when you have that much anger and hurt inside you -- it is bound to come out in a serious vent -- and that is how I felt about the post.

Katie, I have seen a number of your posts and I don't recall them being offensive. As a matter of fact, you often inject some humour in situations that diffuse the tension. I agree with you completely that a lot of healing goes on here and I really would like that to continue.

What makes me sad is that the people who really need to discuss this issue are the very ones who will probably never reply. And that is when I worry if perhaps there are some among us who are only interested in "pushing one another's buttons" as Katie said.

I certainly hope that is not true. I am very glad to say that my marriage is in recovery and I believe my H and I have emerged from this mess as two brand new people. But even then, I listen with an open mind to discussions on this Board because there is always something you can take and apply in your life to improve your situation or some point that you can use for discussion to improve communication with your spouse.

We are all in various stages of need on this Board and I sincerely hope that everyone will remember that and just try to be sensitive to each other. I also hope that some of the oldies will come back and post and share their success stories and not so successful stories. We need to restore our safe haven.

love,
heavenly

<small>[ July 09, 2002, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CMiranda:
[qb]Heavenly,

This is more of a general response than to you directly. I think that there is a solid line drawn by some BS here. Us and them. It comes across loud and clear. I know that until it stops, until the judgements end, there will be issues based on our roles here.

This is not a public forum, as the admin pointed out in her message to all of us. We can not come here and post in such a way that will clearly hurt or insult others. It is less about taking sides than it is about what is right. There are certain posters here who give off the impression that this is their site that they are the gatekeeper of it. This is not the truth and the battle lines have to be modified. All the same rules apply to each member here. Somehow that gets lost in the reasoning that if a poster is hurting and happens to be a BS and just so happens to strike a nerve, trigger painful feelings, or just plain insult a FWS/OW, it should not be any more alright than if it were a FWS/OW writing that post.
I know that I am suspect of a few here that say they are working a wonderful program but seem to me to be looking for someone to lash out at if we meet the criteria of being a fow.
I see the bottom line as if we post with anger and resentment and insults, we can not expect anything less than what has happened over the past month on this site. I'm willing to work at it, but I do not appreciate being segregated because I have not been betrayed. I'm not blaming my H for my A, but if he hadn't been so drunk and abusive, maybe I would not have fell in love with another man. None of our marriages are perfect.
I believe very stongly and with some acknowlegement, that many FOW feel we are made out to be the enemy here it is wrong to be treated that way. I would like to see the double standard go away. If we treat everyone with the respect they deserve and are entitled to, we will be well on our way to helping eachother through one of the most painful stuggles of our lives.
I do agree that we are way off base lately and I'd like to see that change but it takes more than cooperation from us "fow.

<small>[ July 09, 2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

CMiranda,

I completely agree with everything you say. Respect for each other's views and situations is the key that will improve the discussions on this board.

By the way, when I say it is a public forum, I did not mean that everyone had license to conduct themselves however they see fit. I simply met that anyone can access this site and become a member. Therefore, it is particularly important to remember that we possibly come from all different backgrounds, cultures, and even countries. Understanding can transcend those boundaries, but it is up to every one of us to work on it.

Whether we like it or not, OPs and BSs have two completely different experiences. I can not honestly claim that I know what is in the mind of my H's ex-OW nor can I honestly claim that I care except to the extent that it affects me and my family.

I do know that my H shares the main responsibility for his A because (and I think you have pointed it out before) he stood before God and took vows with me, not the ex-OW. But, I peddle forgiveness a lot and that, IMHO, is what makes the difference. I have forgiven my H because he has taken the steps to re-commit to the marriage and to show me he has changed.

I no longer bear any anger towards the ex-OW because she does not have any bearing on my life anymore. I am not sure it is the same as "forgiving" her because I never felt that she "wronged" me. She did what she did, my H did what he did, and when I found out it was up to him and me to decide where we would go from there.

I have felt (as we all have) the tension between the FOWs and the BSs. If there is a way to bring us together then I would like to try for all of our sakes. We have enough to deal with -- we don't need to come here and waste our time arguing with each other. We should be supporting each other.

I hope others will join us by honouring the principles and acting in a respectful manner towards each other. I will also do my part.

love,
heavenly

Heavenly I have to say that I admire (and envy a little) your ability to put away your angry feelings at your OW.

While I know in my head that it is not my OW's fault that my marriage was failing and my H was unfaithful, I can't seem to get that across to my emotional self, who feels so hurt and angry that she would attempt to usurp my life. When I found out about the A, I found an email from her discussing how she couldn't wait until her, my H, and my son could be a "healthy" family together. I have never, before or since, felt so betrayed and outraged--she thought she could just erase me from my life.

Maybe I'm still to early in recovery (1 year since A, about 6 months of good work), but I feel angry at her A LOT. Sigh.

A mortal
EJ

EJmom2B:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I found out about the A, I found an email from her discussing how she couldn't wait until her, my H, and my son could be a "healthy" family together. I have never, before or since, felt so betrayed and outraged--she thought she could just erase me from my life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That I completely understand. My wife's OM emailed her around Christmas of the affair, and they discussed how wonderful it would be next year, with the two of them lying under the Christmas tree...

The reality of that Christmas (well, a few days after) was that I was helping to deliver his son into the world. Living well and by your principles is the best thing you can do for yourself. I received the gift of one terrific little boy---I get that pleasure every day---and the pain from four years ago grows dimmer and dimmer with each passing year.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: K ]</small>

Heavenly,
I admire you and your courage.

Dawn

Dear EJ and K,

Like your stories, I have intercepted letters from the ex-OW which talked about plans for her future with my H. And I remember the pain and outrage I experienced. But like K, it made me more determined than ever to fight for my marriage.

EJ you are still in the early stages and it is perfectly normal to rage against the OW, your H, the world, even God, from time to time, for all the pain you are being put through. But if you continue your good work, like K said, these feelings will dim as better times replace the need to rage.

Dawn71,

Thank you for your praise, but I don't have any more or less courage than everyone else on this Board. That courage is deep inside you waiting to be found and tapped. I pray every day for all of us to find that courage.

love,
heavenly

K and Heavenly...

Thanks so much for the words of support and encouragement.

It's amazing to me that every time I start to feel sorry for myself and feel like an episode of Jerry Springer, God brings me something like this that shows me I am far from unique and far from alone.

Just being on this board the last week has totally changed the way I am handling the drama.

Yay! Thanks!
EJ