Hi everyone,

OC is due in less than a month, August 25th. I talked to OW about a month ago ( H called her and told her that I wanted to talk to her) and neither H or I have seen or heard from her since. I wonder if she didn't believe that he had told me about her and the pregnancy.

I'm praying that the baby is not his. She has moved to another town, but still works in the same hospital with my H. We don't know how to get in touch with her at home. H does not want to be seen talking to her at work. So far noone at the hospital seems to know that he is the father.

Should we hope an pray that she leaves us alone, or should we try to contact her about paternity tests. She told me that he is the father and that all she wants is CS, that the child deserves that. We sometimes feel that he was "setup". We make good money and I'm sure she figured that out.

We have told noone about the A or OC. We'd like to keep it that way, but if he is the Father, we want to do what is right.

Any suggestions

Butterflybonanza,

Well, I believe that your H could file a paternity suit, which would force OW to have DNA testing done. I wouldn't pay out a penny till that test is done, and it is noted by the court! I wouldn't worry too much about contacting her at home, since you still know where she works. From her response of all she wants is CS, it certainly does look as if your H could have been set up! Oh well, hindsight is 20/20, and you have and are learning from these mistakes. I know that I certainly have. Let your attorney contact her about paternity, and if she does contact you first, about paying CS w/out the DNA, let her know that you want testing done first!

JMHO,

Tigger

Mr."T" says from his experience, to file a paternity suit to establish DNA. You don't owe a thing until paternity is proven. He said that if he could do it all over again, he would have filed the paternity suit before OC was born so that Ex-ow knew he meant business and alot of our stuff could have been decided (CS issues etc.) before the child was born.

Mr."T" said that perhaps had he done that first, she would know that he would not have changed his mind and our OC could have possibly been adopted out.

I would get an atty and find out what legally you can do to protect yourself.

Keep us posted, please....and I'm praying for you.
Hugs and prayers,
Twiisty

I agree with Tigger and Twiisty.
Definitely get a lawyer and pursue the DNA.

We filed to establish paternity and legitimate the baby BEFORE her birth. ExOW didn’t like it one little bit… but she knew we weren’t playing games with her.

By filing for DNA testing prior to the birth it basically set the “burden of proof” on exOW. It seems that when the exOW files for child support, the alleged father has the “burden of proof.”

Until it is proven that the child is your H’s, there is no obligation to pay child support. Don’t spend a dime on c/s until you know for sure. There have been 2 cases on this board where the WS paid c/s and it was later found that the child was NOT his.

We also went for Full Custody after the DNA proved Lil Bit was H's. And we have been given 51% of the week. So far there is NO c/s because of the way the week is broken down... But we are still fighting for custody... No court date on the horizon, but still praying for it.

You and your H are in my thoughts and prayers, Butterfly…

<small>[ July 29, 2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Stacia_Lee ]</small>

I must say there is no such thing as being "setup". All adults do know that unprotected sex or protected sex can lead to pregnancy. Unless he was raped or has some secret powers that nobody else knows about, bottom line if he would have kept his pole out out of the creek, he wouldn't be in this situation! Having said that, it would be in his best interest to have paternity legally determined before he takes full responsibility for the child. If she is an honest woman, she will have no problem with that. And because they are not married to each other, there is no legal grounds to establish paternity so he does not have to sign anything without first being tested to prove he is the biological father. If he is proven to be so, realize your life will change drastically if you make the decision to stay with him, which is obviously what you have done.

Luscious,

Why do you continue to jump on or start threads and say hurtful or inflamatory things?

Butterfly has come to this site looking for support for her marriage. All visitors and posters are asked to respect that. Your comments on how a woman is impregnated is out of line and unnecessary.

Your crude references to the act of copulation was in no way supporting Butterfly. All members are adults and are quite aware of the how babies are made and what the results of that act could be. Please respect this forum and it's members by refraining from making remarks that can be hurtful.

In short: keep your biology lessons to yourself they are unneeded and unwanted on this particular section of the forum.

Z.

edited to correct a typo

<small>[ July 30, 2002, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: zebrababy ]</small>

It would might be nice if you read entire statements rather than taking excerpts from 1 part of a paragraph. Part of supporting anyone, as I am someone who has done much counseling, is getting them to look at ALL sides of an issue and not just their side. It is not pretty, it may not be comfortable but you cannot move on from anything when the anger is still manifesting itself inside of you and you are eaten away by bitterness. You HAVE to face the anger, the situation, undressed, don't pretty it up and deal with the issues no matter how unpleasant they may be. This is the beginning of any kind of closure! I will not jump to the bait of your misintrepereted, unwarranted remarks but instead hold fast to the belief that anger is the first stage and until you conquer that, you are not ready for healing!

luscious:

I must have missed your post where you introduced yourself to MarriageBuilders, and let us know what marital issues you're attempting to work on using this behavioral approach.

I'd like to point you to part of the agreement you signed when you registered here:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your previous post certainly goes to vulgar, if nothing else. I see no anger in Butterfly's post---she's simply trying to weigh the pros and cons between being proactive in approaching this situation and hiding under a rock and hoping that it'll all go away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I must say there is no such thing as being "setup".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You haven't lived very much, have you? People are "set up" all the time.

Butterfly,

If I had to give you an opinion on this, I think that I'd sue for a paternity finding as well (depending on your state laws). If there's a chance to get whacked with back CS support in a few years, you'll definitely want to know about this upfront.

luscious,

you said you had "done" much counseling. Does that mean you gave or received counseling?

I would be quite interested in what reputable counselor would see the benefit of graphically describing the following: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">bottom line if he would have kept his pole out out of the creek, he wouldn't be in this situation! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Butterfly came here NOT struggling with accepting the fact that her H had an affair. She came here wrestling with whether or not THEY should contact OW for DNA.

You implyed that she HAS to deal with her bitterness and anger. Correct me if I'm wrong ... but I don't see any anger or bitterness in her post. How exactly do you know if she has or hasn't dealt with her anger? Perhaps questions would have been more appropriate than the graphic descriptions you chose.

Sounds to me that you were doing a lot of assuming regarding Butterfly's marital status.

My point and question to you is, why do you keep doing this? You did it with me and now you are doing it with someone else. It's unfair and can be quite disturbing to a poster who comes here looking for support.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will not jump to the bait of your misintrepereted, unwarranted remarks </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Luscious, I am NOT trying to bait you, I am trying to appeal too your humanness and for you to empathize with the poster before you brashly give your remarks. I'm trying to get you to look at the posters questions and comments and address them as what you would do or what you have done. You have done neither.

Two of the three responses to Butterfly included what those posters did in their situation (and the one that didn't is an fOW who was the one that had the OC so she wouldn't need to contact OW for DNA testing)

All I'm asking is you take a look at your posts and put some more thought into the advice you are giving (qualifying why you think it is good advise from your own experiences) and choose your words so they are not hurtful or so graphic.

Remember, the last thing any BS on this forum needs is someone graphically describing the fornication that occured between the WS and the OP.

Your style may work just fine where you post at gloryB as lusciousl, but it doesn't sit well with us here at MB. Please be mindful of where you are at.

Z.

Attn: all forum members, please do not post ANY responses to the dialog Luscious and I are having. I DO NOT want this to explode into a all out forum free for all.

Attn: Butterfly, very sorry to burst in on your post. I hope the other forum members will post more responses to your original question. I will.

Butterfly,

Thank you for forgiving me for intruding on your thread. I will now attempt to do what I should have done in the first place and that is to respond to your post. I got sidetracked and I again apologize.

DNA ... If I could do one thing different in the last 1.5 years is spring for the $ to get that DNA test done. It would have saved tons of grief and wondering. (if you don't know our DNA came back negative)

Just to be free of the trials and tribulations OW put us through would have been well worth the cost of the test.

The Child Support Enforcement agency here also told us that we could have opened a case up, free of charge just like she did. Then if the DNA came back positive my H would have paid the $150, if not, the state would pick up the bill.

I guess most important would be to get the CS started if it truely is your H's. Not only to avoid huge arrears (if applicable in your state) but to really and truely give the needed financial support to his child. It sounds from your post that you are both willing to pay CS.

And as far as setting someone up. It can happen. It happened to me and another poster here. OW in our situations slept with multiple men and made a choice as to who they THINK will be the best provider or daddy to their child ... or worst case senario who they think will stay with them!

They gambled with our lives for their own selfish reasons. Instead of saying, ya know, I don't know who is the father, let's test!

best of luck, keep us posted on what you and H decided to do.

Z.

<small>[ August 01, 2002, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: zebrababy ]</small>

Butterfly,
You can file a paternity action before baby is born. If she has already brought up CS and says baby is entitled to it, then she will most likely proceed with legal recourse to get it. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with H taking the initiative. It may even offer you a little solace in knowing that the truth will soon be known and you will be able to plan your next step accordingly. As for no one knowing, that may be tough, but not impossible. My son&#8217;s father has told no one in his family as of yet. I don&#8217;t like it, but it&#8217;s not my call to make. I put myself in the situation I&#8217;m in and will have to accept the limitations of it. No sense in crying foul. Overall, it has turned out well for us. We all had to do some compromising, but MM and BS had the same basic feeling as you. They wanted to do the right thing by my son, regardless of the circumstances. Our efforts have been based on that premise.

L.
As someone who does a lot of &#8220;counseling&#8221; you would be aware that feelings are not always based on logical thought. They can be raw, wracked full of pain, hate, and utter dejection. No one can tell another how to feel. Butterfly&#8217;s SOMETIMES feeling like her H was set up is a perfectly normal/natural HUMAN response to a horrendous situation. Now, barring THAT portion of her post, no where in her post do I see her absolving H of his part in the A. I do not see anything even remotely resembling &#8220;denial&#8221; of how conception occurred. A 6th grade education will give you the basics on how a woman becomes impregnated&#8230;and with a lot more tact, I might add. You&#8217;re analogy, although amusing to you, was in bad taste, IMO. Supporting someone effectively, as you would know (due to your counseling), is knowing WHEN to say something and when NOT to say something. Yes, one must look at all sides of the issues, but Butterfly is on her schedule, not yours. Let her be the one to determine when she is ready to look at other sides besides her own. To have the expectation that someone will handle a situation in the same manner YOU would, is unrealistic and a bit arrogant. As for unwarranted remarks, I could be wrong, but the consensus will probably be that YOUR remarks were unwarranted and out of line. What kind of counseling do you do, by the way?

Ohbratti: What you are saying is true. Everyone does not handle adversity the same way and in the same manner and time as everyone else. However, I stand by my original assertion that when you are still at the blame stage, you are not ready to heal. In any crisis, anger, bitterness and pointing fingers are the first reactions and usually more than not, more harmful to you than the ones who have hurt you. You want personal; in my own life, blaming and wrath caused more damage to an already bad situation. What good does this do? "I'll never forgive blank, blank planned to hurt me, its all blank's fault, I'm going to get blank"! I have had these attitudes in the past and I suffered because my way of dealing with the problem was ineffective. There's no such thing as being setup with a baby. My point has already been reconfirmed by the other posts. All adults know that sexual intercourse can lead to pregnancy! To solely blame the other person is to deny the complicity of the other party who mutually consented to this apparently unprotected sex act! This is the sad part of these situations! EVERYBODY PAYS! In some shape or form or way, everybody suffers! Now we must learn to move on and heal! My point simply is you can't do that when you're pointing fingers! The last part of my post was forgotten, I guess. I thought the information I gave the poster was sound, good advice. Please don't "soundbite" my posts. Z: I am not going to argue with you so I won't respond to whatever you implied or said. Yes, I do help people and part of helping people is getting them to look at the total picture. My approach is compassion but toughlove. Support is not always defined as total agreement with someone's position, that's co-dependency.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My approach is compassion but toughlove. Support is not always defined as total agreement with someone's position, that's co-dependency. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, that's not the real definition of co-dependency, but there's no doubt that "total agreement" isn't always the best type of counseling approach.

However---your "toughlove" approach where you've been pretty much stating the "both parties are responsible" for the affair/child smacks of TROLLISM. That's an unfortunate disorder in which the victim seems to need to make political points by inserting their opinion (usually only one) ad nausem regardless of whether it's appropriate or not---and usually in a way that causes rancor.

I would suggest that we no longer respond to luscious's posts, and I'll contact Tempest (again) and suggest that she have a discussion with luscious on proper posting etiquette.

Both parties ARE responsible for child/affair and that's not TROLLISM, whatever that is! Also, you can contact whomever you please, lady. Your problem is not how I'm stating my OPINION but that YOU don't agree with it! Now show me the profanity, name-calling, threats made or implied, lack of support when I posted solid advice to someone on how to handle genetic determination, etc, etc and you might have something. You simply want me expelled because I'm not one-dimensional and I 've grown to know that these complex situations or almost anything in life requires that being viewed from all angles. Any counselor, mediatior worth their salt will tell you that! Thank you very much!

WOW! I posted on 7.27, MB was down on 7.28, I went on vacation and came back to this!!!

Didn't mean to cause conflict on the board!!

Thanks to everyone who posted. You have all meant so much to me in these tough months. I do feel that we need to have paternity tests done.

We live in county A, she lives in county B, and they work in county C. Where should we file for paternity tests? I know most everyone in our county, and I'm sure word would probably leak out of A and possible paternity. That scares me. I'm not ready for my family to find out. If he's not the father then I'd rather no one knew. If he is, we will probably end up telling our families.

Stacia_Lee, How did you go about filing for custody. We would like to do that if he is the father. She is divorced with 2 kids and has moved several times since Feb. She has a low paying job and has a hard time paying her bills and caring for her other 2 kids. I KNOW this doesn't mean that she isn't a good Mother, but we would rather raise the child if it is indeed his. We have 3 children, we both have good jobs and have a good, stable marriage.
(yes it was strained there for a few months, or the A wouldn't have happened, but we're back on track now)

Yes, Luscious, I do know that protected & unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy. Don't you think I TOLD him that on several occasions. He says he "thought" she was on the pill. I let him know, in no uncertain terms, that that was the stupidest thing that I had ever heard of!! But, that is in the past. I have forgiven them both and must deal with the probability that this child is indeed his. By the GRACE of GOD we will be able to handle whatever we have to face.

I am still praying that it is not his and I still feel that he was possibly SETUP. I think she saw a good man and hoped he was truly unhappy with me and would leave me for her. The few times they were together, he said she called him, once a month for several months, desperately wanting to see him NOW. When he got there, she was in a sexy gown with only one thing on her mind!!!!

I hope that I am wrong. Pray for me!!!
Butterfly Bonanza

Butterfly,

From what I understand, the county that the Mother and Child live in is the county that you have to file in. Wherever the child resides has jurisdiction. I know this from my divorce from my ex-H and from our own paternity suit...We lived in Parish A while ex-ow and oc live in Parish B. We had to file in Parish B and get an attorney from that Parish as well.

As for suing for custody of the oc, unless the mother is negligant, on drugs, or in any other ways unstable (I don't think the court would view divorced, moved alot etc. as good reasons) the most you would be awarded is joint custody. BUT....I am not a legal expert, so I would check with your Attorney for more expert opinions in that matter.

The reason I say that was our ow repeatedly told MR."T" that she was afraid that he would sue for custody and she was a single mother, moved around,bi-sexual and the lot....but according to our attorney, the court wouldn't even consider that as grounds to take the child away from her.

I would definately get the best, agressive Attorney that I could afford and file paternity suit and get going on with life.

Mr."T"'s family knows as does his co-workers and my family...one day our four children will know about oc (to keep ow from making good on her threat that "The children WILL know each other")

If it were me, I wouldn't be embarrassed...it was your H's fault. He did it...not you. If anything people will look at you as, "Wow....what a neat lady...she stayed when I would have bailed..." and I can tell you, my H's co-workers have said that Mr."T" was an A-hole for doing what he did to such a "nice" respectable lady like me....(ok..ok...don't let my halo choke me around my neck)

At this point, I wouldn't worry about what others think, I would just go on with life. You have forgiven, then it is "water under the bridge" get on with the business of knowing what you are dealing with and moving on.

I wish you success, peace and the golden, "Get out of jail free" card.

I can understand about the "set-up" part...my ow told me outright that she did it on purpose because she wanted him and wanted to be a part of his life forever. She also bitterly spat at me the same time and said very angrily, "looks like he made his choice...to stay with you...."

It's rough all around.

Hugs and praying for you and please keep us posted on the latest so we can be there for you!

Twiisty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Butterfly,
What twiisty says it true. The county where the child resides is the county for jurisdiction.
When you choose your lawyer, choose one that can practice in that area and knows the courts there.
Using an attorney that is unfamiliar with the Judges will make it difficult for him or her to know what drives the Judges' decisions.

As far as my H filing for custody, he filed for custody about the time that our little angel was 2 months old. We had known all along that we wanted to raise her because we are afraid of what may happen if she is left in the custody of exOW.

You see… exOW has a bad history. She has several cases of domestic violence in her background.
Lil Bit is her 3rd child.
The first child, a boy, she mercifully gave up for adoption, but the father stepped in and took the child. ExOW never saw him.
The second child, another boy, she kept. He is now close to 7 yrs old. At the age of 4, he was beaten about the head and neck area with a dog leash. There were also hand-sized bruises on his buttocks. When first investigated, exOW admitted to causing ALL the marks, but later recanted and said that it was her boyfriend. The exbf is now being investigated for criminal child abuse and exOW has charges pending… and that all hinges on the outcome of his trial.
And because of this(Failure to Protect), she lost custody of her son. She was to take parenting classes and anger management classes. She declined to take them. Thus, her mother and grandmother have custody of her son. She is only to have SUPERVISED visitation with him. Yet, they allow her to take him, unsupervised.

Anyway,
I found a few attorneys online and I emailed them. I sent them all the same letter. Asking, what can we do? I got several responses, and then I replied, asking what their retainer fees were. We chose one that would work with us on the fee. She was great, but felt (3 months in) that she was not the best lawyer for this case, so she talked to another lawyer and she agreed to take the case.
After changing lawyers, the Referee was much different. Much more inclined to listen to “our” side. It was after the switch that H was given Joint Custody (the Referee actually spoke to me about whether I had a problem caring for Lil Bit, of course I said not at all). His petition for Full Custody is still pending… but we have not heard anything on that.

I know how you feel, when you say that you feel your H was “setup.”
ExOW tried to get pg because she felt that because (in her mind) I could not give him a child, she would “WIN” him because she could get pg and carry to term.
When she found that he was not going to leave me, she got very angry… threatened abortion and several other ways of “getting rid of this baby.” But, when H told her just to give the baby to him… She thought, “there may be a way to WIN after all.” She began using the child as a pawn. She wants to be with my H… at any cost… even if it means losing Lil Bit. (She is still telling her so-called friends that she is going to “win” because she has HIS BABY… and I don’t)
I have often wondered if I could get her to swap me even, Lil Bit for H…. (Just kidding ya’ll)

We have had lots of trouble out of exOW… and it sure doesn’t look there is any light at the end of this Trouble Tunnel… She is bound and determined to make H’s and my life as difficult as possible. But, I refuse to let her get the upper hand.

You can read my “saga”… it is long... but can give some light to our little “soap opera.”
A little background...

And btw… Contrary to Popular Belief, there are those “rare” OW’s that actually try to emulate the storylines of Soaps… by trying to “Trap” the MM by getting pregnant.
Though the cause of pregnany is widely known, it still happens… and it can happen (and often does happen) by deceit. Which is what is commonly meant by... “Being Setup.”

(Keyword: DECIET - Pronunciation: di-'sEt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English deceite, from Middle French, from Latin decepta, feminine of deceptus, past participle of decipere
Date: 14th century
1 : the act or practice of deceiving : DECEPTION
2 : an attempt or device to deceive : TRICK
3 : the quality of being deceitful : DECEITFULNESS
From the Merriam-Webster online Dictionary)

JMHO…

<small>[ August 03, 2002, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Stacia_Lee ]</small>

Hello,
I know here that Paternity sues here are kept confendial.

Dawn

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We would like to do that if he is the father. She is divorced with 2 kids and has moved several times since Feb. She has a low paying job and has a hard time paying her bills and caring for her other 2 kids. I KNOW this doesn't mean that she isn't a good Mother, but we would rather raise the child if it is indeed his. We have 3 children, we both have good jobs and have a good, stable marriage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BB
I remember you mentioning before about wanting to raise the child if it is your husbands... But Chances of that happening are pretty slim unless this woman wants to give her child to you... You would be setting your self up for dissapointment.
Courts are not going to make a mother give up her child, just because she is single and Your not, Being single or even poor for that matter doesnt make you a bad mother..If you and your husband are indeed going to come forward and share in helping raise this child, your better off not starting that out with a battle you will most likely lose and what a bad foot to start out on.
Just something to think on, of course it would be easier if you could pretend the mother doesnt exist but she does and chances are she will love this baby as much as her other children.
If I were that mother I would be very angry and offended and come out fighting if someone dared to suggest I was not able or capable of raising my children with or with out a mans help.
ANDA to suggest I give her away to save another womans feelings wouldnt go over so well either...
I am not trying to be mean, and I know your here for support, You and your husband have rights but taking a womans baby is not one of them.
You have to find another option.
stacias situation is so much different and it seems that that woman has not been able to care for any of her childrena nd may be brought up on charges her self... she is worried about neglect and many other things..
Being single and having a crap job are not traits of being a bad mother.

I do hope you find a better option available to you and make it through this transition.
something will work out.

<<<but taking a womans baby is not one of them>>>

See, this is what pisses me off SO much.
I thought it was THEIR baby, not just hers. Isn't that what we keep hearing ? The child is BOTH of theirs ? So why is it OK for her to take HIS child <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ?
These ow ***** and whine, piss and moan about how MM should have to take responsibility for these children.
Then the truth comes out in a statement like that.
What makes a woman more deserving to raise a child than a man ? Just because a woman has a uterus does not mean she is a better parent.
The truth is to ow , being involved means cowtowing to her wants and her decisions .
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />