</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by twiisty:
<strong>CM wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I felt vindictive or bitter or hateful, I'd forgo any friendly conversations with him as I have had in the past, I'd take him to court and get back at him for doing things to me and to his wife than neither of us deserved </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">says it all...really....and in doing so, if the wife chose to stand by her husband, then the court costs, the finances etc. are ruined anyway and the wife and the kids suffer yet again.

I agree with you in your other post about men should know how to wear a condom...a fact that I shove in my H's face more than I should. (Gotta work on my LB's) everytime the phone gets cut off or I'm sitting in the dark w/o electricity, I remind him of the expensive screw he had and how it wasn't worth all this. But I'm in the business of trying recover from this. In my case, the spur of a moment quickie settled it for us...condom or not...

Yep My H was selfish, thinking only of the pleasure at the moment. He was selfish for using another woman's A$$. He was selfish for putting me through what he did. I openly admit that.

My OW was selfish too. That's a fact too.

I like what you wrote at the end of that quote," I want to forgive and be forgiven, despite my anger" or something like that....that's good. Let go of the vindicativeness...I'm trying to....even though I want to wring my ex-ow's neck...I already wrung Mr."T"'s ....

Peace,
Twiisty</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Twiisty,

You are right, the victims of the A pile up. I am feeling particularily angry at -exom right now. I am not really sure why. I ended it yet he let me end it and it is possible that I'm just now realizing that he got away the easy way. It infuriates me that I am hurting, my H is hurting and his poor wife is clueless. It is as if we are all his fools at this point in time. I'd feel like kicking him but I do not want to knock his wife and kids into the mud, just him, I think I'd feel better temporarily if I could knock his feet out from beneath him just once. Although, living well, I believe is really enough over the long haul.
I am not looking to rub anyones face in the condom thing. I honestly am not. I just can not (in hindsight more or less) fathom how this man never considered it, never spoke of it over 6 1/2 years. It wasn't as if we had a 3 night stand, like yours did. Alot of the last few years with him, now strike me as just plain baffling. I can't for the life of me understand how I let him get away with half of what he did. I honestly feel sorry for his wife. She is a very nice person, from what I know of her, and it really is a shame that she has no idea what a selfish, self centered, self absorbed man she is married to. It is now that everything is coming together for me and fueling my intenses anger. I will get over it and hopefully move on to a much happier place; for the time being, I am boiling over with anger at him and he in turn is blaming me, he told me that I ended it,not him.
I am sane enough to realize that acting on my anger at this time is not in everyones best interest but you're right, when an OP lashes out at the WS, everyone suffers. Its the sad reality of broken relationships. I have been yelling and taking shots at him for many months, and while he just takes it, lets me vent, and keeps trying to convince me that we can be "friends", I know that it is time for me to stop and move on. I don't believe that we can ever be friends.

CM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mom of five:
[QB]well your husband should have thought about that before he produced a child, He knows how to use protection. QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And every woman knows how to protect her body from getting pregnant.

Women are in control as to whether or not there will be sex unless they are forced through rape. Women call the shots. They alone determine whether or not they allow themselves to be screwed. Women call all the shots from the very beginning ...from the first time of the sex encounter, to conception, to whether or not to carry to term, whether or not to keep child and whether or not to go after CS and whether or not to allow contact.

The power is all with the women from beginning to end, alpha to omega.

i agree catnip, I knew I could get pregnant, reguardless of what he said, I trusted him as well and didnt have a reason to think he owuld make up the story about vasectomy... so I ended up pregnant, I took responsibility for that, I dont feel sorry for my self in the least, I knew better... .

then men know they can get someone pregnant as well, they know they are doing wrong, they know how to say NO.... They know how to keep it to themselves...
I am sorry an argument that doesnt work, I dont feel sorry for either party

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by catnip:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mom of five:
[QB]well your husband should have thought about that before he produced a child, He knows how to use protection. QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And every woman knows how to protect her body from getting pregnant.

Women are in control as to whether or not there will be sex unless they are forced through rape. Women call the shots. They alone determine whether or not they allow themselves to be screwed. Women call all the shots from the very beginning ...from the first time of the sex encounter, to conception, to whether or not to carry to term, whether or not to keep child and whether or not to go after CS and whether or not to allow contact.

The power is all with the women from beginning to end, alpha to omega.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I got preg. I was using bc. Once I got preg., there was no choice for me as I personally never considered any other solution other than to have my beloved baby. I did not believe I had any other choice based on my beliefs and feelings. I wanted my child, period.

Men do not determine if they allow themselves to be "screwed"? How is it that an erection can be forced?

Men do not determine how to protect their bodies from distributing their seed?

Men do not have the right to seek visitation?

Men do not have the right to pay support without going to court? Men do not have the right to pay their share of support on their own, without being forced?

You are giving us women far too much power I feel.
Men who run and hide may feel that women hold all the cards perhaps.?

CM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is a very nice person, from what I know of her, and it really is a shame that she has no idea what a selfish, self centered, self absorbed man she is married to </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">cm I would bet your wrong, I bet she has more of a clue to his personality than you realise, think of your wife instincs... she doesnt know about your sweet little one, but I bet she knows he isnt as nice as he makes out to be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mom of five:
<strong>then men know they can get someone pregnant as well, they know they are doing wrong, they know how to say NO.... They know how to keep it to themselves...
I am sorry an argument that doesnt work, I dont feel sorry for either party</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We all do know how babies are conceived. Yup, we do. Unless we are mentally incapacitated, we know. We run that risk when we have sex. Man, woman, makes no difference. We know. We take the risk. With that gamble are consequences. Not just for the woman, but for the poor little ole man too.

Cry me a river.

CM

And most men are children and have horrible coping skills and since the beginnning of time, these delayed adolescent men have run from domestic situations into the arms of another because of something lacking within them. Usually maturity, I suppose. There are few "real" men out there today, because if there were, there wouldn't be much of this going on. The selfishness stuns me.

There are also few men in crisis who will turn down available sex from someone new to use as a band aid for their retarded emotions and coping skills.

Most women know this...do some take advantage of it? You bet.

Catnip, i've read you long enough to know that you like things straight up no chaser. So i'll give it to you how I see it. I don't mean to offend or raise blood pressure I'm just going to give you my experience and opinion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by catnip:
<strong>
=^^= Are you saying that those of us who stay with our husbands and remain in our marriages do not demand to be treated honorably?
Should I/we all be offended here? </strong>

No. Not at all. I'm saying that the BS in my case didn't (in my opinion) demand to be treated honorably.

<strong>KS-So while I take responsibility for my part in what I chose, i'm not the one to go kiss up to the wife.

=^^= Back to honorablility...do you equate being honorable, just, dignified and smacking of integrity and morality to be something demeaning if you "kiss up" to someone you have wronged? I'm just talking common decency here....</strong>

You wanna know the truth - I really don't give a flip about his W. I understand that that's super duper polically incorrect around here, but it's the balls out truth. I keep hearing "she's hurt, she's sad, her life is ruined." The part that I never say on here, but it's the truth. So! I honestly don't care. What's ironic is that I really really feel for some of the BS's here. I can honestly say though - in my particular case- I just don't care. I won't go out of my way to help or harm this woman.

Let's be real, if I was caring that much about her I probably would not have been sleeping with her H in her bed.

Maybe it's wrong that I don't care about her. Maybe I should have some great feelings towards her since she's another human being. I'll let you know when I get to that point.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's why it's always so interesting for me to hear/see/read about BS's bothering to feel so much emotion about the OP. Certainly EVERY situation is different. And I could not begin to speak to all of them. I can only tell you about my case. I could care less about this woman one way or the other. IF she were to bother to hate me (which I don't think she does) it would be a giant waste of time on her part. Because I could not honestly care less.

Hope this is enlightening and not stress inducing.

Peace
KS

Wish I knew it Catnip. When two people come together with voids of this magnitude, it's a recipe for disaster. Feeding off eachother like two vultures at a picnic.

CM

catnip, if men were so lame brain and stupid, they wouldnt be running to days world now would they, come oe, Your telling me your husband is so stupid, that this woman is so much more than him that she was able to make him sleep with her, and produce a child, please, I bet there are alot of men out there who would beg to differ.

My x om is a businessman and capable of dealing with millions of dollars every day, He also is capable of making things happen just the way he wants them and I have watched him maipulate things his way in business and personal life for many years... I learned many things from him.. over the years, I also learned how to tell when he was lying and not lying,

My husband was capable and certainly smart enough to know he was using women and lying to get them, He also knew he was hurting me by doing it.
do you treat your husband as if he is a child and has no common sense what so ever ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>Catnip, i've read you long enough to know that you like things straight up no chaser.

You wanna know the truth - I really don't give a flip about his W. I understand that that's super duper polically incorrect around here, but it's the balls out truth. I keep hearing "she's hurt, she's sad, her life is ruined." The part that I never say on here, but it's the truth. So! I honestly don't care. What's ironic is that I really really feel for some of the BS's here. I can honestly say though - in my particular case- I just don't care. I won't go out of my way to help or harm this woman.

Let's be real, if I was caring that much about her I probably would not have been sleeping with her H in her bed.

Maybe it's wrong that I don't care about her. Maybe I should have some great feelings towards her since she's another human being. I'll let you know when I get to that point.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whoa..I can respect that even if it seems heartless, I totally appreciate your honesty. I like that a lot. Even if you are a heartless bytch of the highest order like me, I sure do appreciate balls out honesty with no fluff instead of all this mewling justification. From one Katie to another, hats off.

LOL!

I have to say that I have nothing but respect for you and what you've gone through with Bipolar bear. I can even respect you thinking that i'm a *****. That's probably fair.

I'm not going to sit here and make all kinds of justificaitons for what happened between MM and me. Looking back-it just was.

I've given up judgement of myself about it and so the judgement of others is meaningless to me.

Sheez, I'm envious. When I got honest round here, you all tore off your gloves and started threads on my behalf, flowerseed came out of lurker mode, or multipersonality FS surfaced, not sure, but all in all, over the edge went everyone when I got honest about my -ex's wife.

I'm glad to see we are making progress here.

Thanks KS for your @alls.

CM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mom of five:
<strong>catnip, if men were so lame brain and stupid, they wouldnt be running to days world now would they, come oe, Your telling me your husband is so stupid, that this woman is so much more than him that she was able to make him sleep with her, and produce a child, please, I bet there are alot of men out there who would beg to differ.

My x om is a businessman and capable of dealing with millions of dollars every day, He also is capable of making things happen just the way he wants them and I have watched him maipulate things his way in business and personal life for many years... I learned many things from him.. over the years, I also learned how to tell when he was lying and not lying,

My husband was capable and certainly smart enough to know he was using women and lying to get them, He also knew he was hurting me by doing it.
do you treat your husband as if he is a child and has no common sense what so ever ?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As usual you miss the point entirely. I didn't say they were lame brained and stupid so don't put words in my mouth to win an argument. Play fair if you play with me and quote me right....no manipulation, please.

Men are programmed to run the world and do the big business, make cart loads of decisions but when it comes to peronsal and emotional coping skills, they lack. I don't think men are stupid, I just think they lack where we excel, and perhaps vice-versa.

I don't have my husband's talent for problem solving when it comes to business but he doesn't know what to do with his emotions when he is frightened because it is hard for him to share his negative feelings about himself because he is programmed to stuff these feelings for fear of being considered less of a man. It's universal, MOF..not just in my house or yours or Sally's down the block. It is prevalent everywhere.

I love it whenever Katie S. says "Let's get real..." cuz she does tell the truth from her perspective unvarnished and completely exposed.

I trust KS .... for that reason. (And yet, we are so un-alike in general, it's not even funny)

Pepper

CM-
Take heart - it was ugly as hell when I first arrived. I had 4-5 threads started in my honor. Many tried to "show me the light." LOL!

Folks who hang around here for a while usually go through some sort of evolution one way or another. I know that I have.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>Sheez, I'm envious. When I got honest round here, you all tore off your gloves and started threads on my behalf, flowerseed came out of lurker mode, or multipersonality FS surfaced, not sure, but all in all, over the edge went everyone when I got honest about my -ex's wife.

I'm glad to see we are making progress here.

Thanks KS for your @alls.

CM</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her delivery was a lot less combative than yours used to be so don't feel bad. She was just honest and non-offensive at the same time.

You know what guys. At I have tremendous respect for SO MANY people here.

I happen to think that we don't always have to agree to learn from one another.

no most men dont wear their heart on there sleve, but they are capable of understanding how life works...

sorry didnt mean to sound like I wasnt playing fair, I just dont think you give men enough credit for their decisions.
I hate to leave this conversation and I am glad to see we are all playing nice for the most part, nice to be able to talk with out getting angry...

I am sure we would all agree with that... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

gotta go have a great day EVERY ONE