You know, it occured to me. Maybe these men did use condoms. They put them on their heads as they should, only the wrong head all together. When they did so, their oxygen got cut off and rendered them even more emotionally handicap than they were before the affair. They end up with their wives staying by their side, many of whom deserve better than a cakeman for a husband, for those who know the truth, or they continue on living a lie of a life, as they did before, emotionally handicap yet leading the world.

I hope that women get into power soon or whose telling what will happen with the violense raging in the middle east. Men have their finger on the switch... Good grief, we're in trouble.

CM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
[QB]LOL!

I have to say that I have nothing but respect for you and what you've gone through with Bipolar bear. I can even respect you thinking that i'm a *****.

QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please understand I do not think ***** is a negative term at all. I usually equate it with someone who has risen from the ashes, developed an attitude of self respect, maintains integrity at all costs and has the ability to admit when they are wrong and not afraid to say so. ***** is a tribute to those of us who refuse to allow ourselves to be dragged through the muck. I know I am a ***** but I am also a tender and loving one when appropriate.

Not a slam, KS...not a slam.

LOL @ CM .... head condoms

What a visual LOLOLOLOLOLOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Catnip-

We share a defination on that one. No offense taken.

KS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>You know, it occured to me. Maybe these men did use condoms. They put them on their heads as they should, only the wrong head all together. When they did so, their oxygen got cut off and rendered them even more emotionally handicap than they were before the affair.

=^^= Hahahaha....hahaha...so true. Hilarious picture in my head.

They end up with their wives staying by their side, many of whom deserve better than a cakeman for a husband, for those who know the truth, or they continue on living a lie of a life, as they did before, emotionally handicap yet leading the world.

=^^= Yeah. I wouldn't be here if my husband was a cakeman. Lucky for him his short fling and the results thereof was more like "aversion therapy" like having his hmmm hmmm's attached to electrical current. Since D-day, when we are out in a restaurant or shopping, he is looking at me again instead of everything else out there.

I hope that women get into power soon or whose telling what will happen with the violense raging in the middle east. Men have their finger on the switch... Good grief, we're in trouble.

=^^= Ain't that the truth? Let's hope this is where they excel since it is so difficult for them on the homefront with wives esepcially.

CM</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<<<You are giving us women far too much power I feel.
Men who run and hide may feel that women hold all the cards perhaps.?>>>

We always come back to this same arguement don't we ?

MOF, since according to you women don't hold all the cards what would you have done if MM asked you to abort because he did not want to be a father at this time ? I'll tell you what you would have done... You would still have had the baby and made him pay cs for the next 18 years for a child he didn't want.
OK, lets turn it around...
Say you are pregnant and don't wish to be a mother right now so you choose your legal right for abortion. MM says wait, I'll take and raise the baby without you, but you choose to have an abortion anyway. Just what can he do about that ? NOTHING. His child is gone because the WOMAN chose not to have the baby. Again, he has no say in the outcome of a pregnancy that everyone says he is %50 responsible for.
Sorry MOF, but we chicks hold all the power. We whine and cry about equal rights but when it comes right down to it we, as a gender, are incapable of being equal to men because we are incapable of taking SOLE responsiblity for our decisions.
And that tired old arguement of he made his choice by acknowleging he has no choice is really getting worn out.
jtigger

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Jtigger ]</small>

Is anyone else's house as dirty as mine is? Is anyone else contemplating having a team of surgeons come in and have you surgically removed from your computer? Is anyone else late for work because they just can't seem to get away from here? Is coming to your computer and logging onto this site the first thing you do when you get up in the morning?

It's almost noon and I still haven't had my shower and I am supposed in the office in 45 minutes. Bye

Catnip =^^=

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jtigger:
<strong><<<You are giving us women far too much power I feel.
Men who run and hide may feel that women hold all the cards perhaps.?>>>

We always come back to this same arguement don't we ?

MOF, since according to you women don't hold all the cards what would you have done if MM asked you to abort because he did not want to be a father at this time ? I'll tell you what you would have done... You would still have had the baby and made him pay cs for the next 18 years for a child he didn't want.
OK, lets turn it around...
Say you are pregnant and don't wish to be a mother right now so you choose your legal right for abortion. MM says wait, I'll take and raise the baby without you, but you choose to have an abortion anyway. Just what can he do about that ? NOTHING. His child is gone because the WOMAN chose not to have the baby. Again, he has no say in the outcome of a pregnancy that everyone says he is %50 responsible for.
Sorry MOF, but we chicks hold all the power. We whine and cry about equal rights but when it comes right down to it we, as a gender, are incapable of being equal to men because we are incapable of taking SOLE responsiblity for our decisions.
And that tired old arguement of he made his choice by acknowleging he has no choice is really getting worn out.
jtigger</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yeah, Jtigger...the voice of reason and common sense...thank you, thank you.....

Love

Catnip =^^=

Condoms ... is what I discovered on D-day! Condoms were my H's un-doing.

(NOT on H's head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ... thanks CM for that never-to-be-forgotten visual)

I found a small un-opened jar of vasoline and an unopened box of condoms in H's drawer. We are an infertile couple. He could not explain the reason he was in possession of condoms. So... discovery began ....

Leap ahead to a few days later ... I ask H, "Why were the condoms un-opened?" He says , "We decided not to use them." ... I ask "Weren't you at least a little bit worried about getting her pregnant?" ... H says, "Why no. She's had a hysterectomy."

About an hour later, it dawns on me .... then just what in the sam hill did you buy the condoms for anyway?????

H gives me a dumb sheepish look and refused to answer.

Then I say ... "It was for non-vaginal sex, wasn't it!!!"

Same dumb sheepish look.

I punched him in the face(a lousy sloppy soft punch, just grazed his chin).... and I took off for the weekend.

Not my most stellar moment of glory .... but today.... I'm giggling about it.

SEE GIRLS .... time is magical .... this is actually FUNNY to me now.

Pepper

MOF,
I think I better explain myself to you so you will know that I truly am not attacking you.
I don't get involved with the "its her fault , its his fault" arguments. At this point its moot whose fault it is.
I get involved when people start throwing around words like coward and irresponsible.
I spent way too many hours freezing my a$$ off protesting for womens rights to have them treated so dismissively.
I don't want to be hired for a job just because I'm a woman (and they need to fill their minority quota) if I am not the most qualified person for that job.
And if I do the same job as a man I want to be paid the same as that man.
And if I have reproductive choices then I want men to have those same choices. I don't want any special treatment just because I am a woman.
I am one of those strange feminist that when I say I want to be treated equally to a man I really mean equal.
Jtigger

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gemini1:
<strong>I have to say though, why on earth would a woman choose to bear a child to ANY man she's not married to? Let alone the father is married? What possible outcome do women think can happen?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You could also ask &#8220;Why would a woman choose to bear a child conceived of rape?&#8221; I think women are very adaptable and resilient overall&#8230;.some more than others. I consider a woman a true survivor. She has a strong mind and a strong heart. She is resourceful and tenacious. Her love is blind and her will is made of iron. In other words, a woman is very well equipped to do what she has to do to make it through life.

When I discovered I was pregnant, my thoughts were swirling around in my head so quickly that they made me dizzy. Everything in my life shifted and the new life within me became my all-consuming focus. My child is MY child, regardless of how he came to be. Just like BS&#8217;s don&#8217;t necessarily hate the OC, but abhor the act that led to the child&#8217;s existence, so it is for me in regard to my child. I&#8217;m not proud of the affair, but I am very proud of my son. I do NOT hold my head up high, as if I&#8217;ve done this great thing. I&#8217;m not special in that regard. I&#8217;m just another mother loving her child and doing what I need to do to provide a good life for him. I do not want, nor do I expect kudos or a pat on the back for overcoming my &#8220;special&#8221; circumstances. Those &#8220;special&#8221; circumstances were of my own doing. You can&#8217;t start a fire and then expect applause for being the one to put it out. How backwards is that?

We all have our trials and tribulations. How we handle ourselves and treat those around us&#8230;that&#8217;s what defines us. Saying &#8220;I&#8217;m sorry&#8221; is one of the hardest things to say, yet it is also one of the most important. A lot of people don&#8217;t realize the weight their words carry. Words can cause tremendous hurt, but they can also console and heal. Part of being a person of integrity and honor is owning your mistakes and facing the consequences head on...which includes making apologies for bad behavior. Admitting fault isn't enough, however. We all need a little humility to ground us. To truly recover from wrongdoing, one must immediately set about making amends&#8230;even if it&#8217;s just saying &#8220;I&#8217;m sorry&#8221;.

(Not singling you out Gem. You know I love ya. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Your words just got my cerebral juices flowing.)

OB1

CM wrote and I laughingly quote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, it occured to me. Maybe these men did use condoms. They put them on their heads as they should, only the wrong head all together. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

after I cleaned up the Dr. Pepper and sphghetti off of my monitor, I had to chime in with my thoughts on this one....

I don't THINK they make a condom big enough for my H's head....and I ain't talking about the little one, either.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Thanks for the laugh of the day....
Oh yeah, and KS....appreciate your honesty too...

Hugs and peace y'all....
Twiisty

Originally posted by gemini1:
I have to say though, why on earth would a woman choose to bear a child to ANY man she's not married to? Let alone the father is married? What possible outcome do women think can happen?

The answer to that seems obvious to me but for those who do not understand, let me put it as basic as I can. Love for child. Does your God condone abortion Gemini? Oh, I know he doesn't condone affairs either. What is that old saying about 2 wrongs don't make a right....
CM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by me:
<strong>Well I say good for everyone who can be a proud single woman knocked up out of wedlock and raising a kid without a dad. Hold your head up high! Where I come from, it's a shame. Where I come from adultery is a shameful act. I'm not saying go around living life like you are less than or unworthy of forgiveness from God, yourself, and others--if possible, I'm just submitting that "OW pain" would probably fall somewhere in that category. Of course, it doesn't apply to every situation. Did that strike a nerve??? Didn't mean to...</strong>

Originally posted by mom of 5:
<strong> I am guessing you wouldnt have said it if you didnt want to strike a nerve. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Matthew asked in the original topic of this thread if any OP have apologized to the BS and if not, is it because the OPs are so (self-aborbed) into their own pain... something along these lines.

My answer was that I believed YES because single parenting OW/OC situation IS very shameful depending on individual circumstances. Obviously I wasn't gearing my answer toward your nerves, mo5, because when have you ever been a single parent raising your OC alone? I don't think you have? That's a whole different world.

I also think JoshMom misunderstood me because I was not saying single parenting is shameful, period... Some people get divorced and have to raise kids alone, some people choose to be single parents, and some people adopt in order to raise their kids single. I'm talking about a single mom of an OC. Maybe she didn't misunderstand me, but I was not trying to strike any nerves, so don't accuse me of that, mo5. You said it wasn't anything personal, but you come across a bit accusatory. I could be wrong, but perhaps you might have been reading negativity in my answer through your own filters.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mom of 5:
<strong>
I dont believe it is any more shameful, than for a husband to produce a child while he is married to someone else. And then to deny that child...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay you have a point, but it's not the topic of this thread. I think you are dragging in a new topic... How can anyone have a sense of shame if they feel they have done nothing wrong? You have to be convicted of sin first in order to even consider repentance. I can reach even a little farther and say that if the person doesn't believe in God, feels that they have not violated God's Law, where is a need to repent going to come from? It's not! Not unless that person has a change of heart.

Katie Scarlett I have said this time and again but until you become a wife and not so anti-marriage, you simply won't get it in you to have compassion, even a little bit, for the BS in your situation. I understand you must believe that your xMM's wife was stupid for putting up with his crap, but maybe, just maybe she loves him? Maybe, just maybe, like you--she feels sorry for him because he's so pathetic... maybe??? Maybe he is not in his right mind and hasn't been in so many years because he is not the man she married and she's holding out for her true husband to return to her... You never know?

Back to mo5 I usually don't go posting around here to strike any nerves. I try to answer from my heart--without sarcasm--especially here on this forum in particular. We don't need sarcasm here. Sarcasm on this forum = not good. Remember the open wounds. Be sensitive. That's my motto.

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

jtigger
I can respect your veiws and I am all for equal rights... in fact om did not want the child, told me to abort and he would take me... I said if you dont want this baby you are free to go, I did not call I did not ask for money and in fact refused all contact.. I decided to take the baby and raise him/her my self.
He had a choice I gave him the choice to walk away. when he decided he wanted to know the child he saw her every week, But I asked for nothing, not one penny, I paid for everything for that baby.
when he decided he wanted to come out in the open he decided he wanted to pay child support, he also got to choose the amount, i SAID IT IS YOUR CHOICE DO WHAT you want...

so he had lots of choices in that reguard, I [personal opinion] would not want a man in my life or my childs life in any way shape or form if he did not want to be.

You are right if I wanted to abort , he would have no say so, by todays standards... because it is in the womans body, I am not sure how you would equal that out... dont have an answer and neither does society or we would have fixed that by now... so while he had no choice if I gave birth, he had a chance to walk away and stay gone, I was more than willing to let him...

binthere

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> mo5, because when have you ever been a single parent raising your OC alone? I don't think you have? That's a whole different world.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">actually I did this for two years to be exact, Wasnt easy thats for sure, but I did well enough on my own and did what I needed to do.

I have a lot of respect for those who manage to do it, Takes alot to raise a child with out any help from a partner.

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

MOF,
Then please explain to me why you consider a man a coward ,less than human and irresponsible if he decides to walk away from an unwanted pregnancy.

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Jtigger ]</small>

Ohbratti1
I would not be able to have a child from a rape. I just couldn't do it.

Nor would I bear a mans child if we were not married.
Just couldn't do that either.

I guess I live in a fairy tale world to think that way.

I didn't mean to get those juices flowing with my comments.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I also never would say something to hurt you personally. If I did then I'm sorry.
Dear OB1, you wrote a lot of answers to my questions two years ago. I will always appreciate anything you have to say. You do say it so well you know?

CM, being Catholic doesn't allow abortion, and I'm Catholic.

Having said that....I still wouldn't have a child in either of the aforementioned circumstances.

Just like you say you have to live with your decisions, I would have to live with mine.

Debi

BTDT-
for the record I am in a loving and committed relationship. We are buying a house together and planning a family. So i'm a lot closer then you might think to being "marriage minded."

Maybe I will change my mind. Who knows. I'm not saying my opinion is perfect. It's simply my opinion. In a certain respect I identify with his W. For a LONG time I held out hope that the MM that I met and fell in love with would return.

The point at which I cry uncle and give up is different than the point at which she gives up. God bless her. Maybe she's a better woman than me. I'll give her that.

She's not done with that relationship. I am.

God bless her.

Oh, and I was highly offended at the comment about single parenthood being shamful.

If it was shameful for you i'm sorry for that. But TRUST it's not shameful for everyone. Some of us chose it.

And I think it's offensive to assume that other single mothers are like you in that respect.