my basic question is it too late for me and my wife? we've been married for almost 4 years and together for 8. over the last couple of years, it's gotton much more difficult for her as i have become set in my ways, underappreciate, lack of romance, negativity. Were currently on a two week break but we had a family function last week and she told me she can't take it anymore and was leaning towards the dreaded "d". i've been in counseling for 6 months now and have made changes, but right now she's not listening to anything i say or do becuase she has these huge walls up. her question, "why know?" i admit i was a huge idiot and i am seeking and committed to a life long change. my counselor says i'm doing the right things.....right now i feel helpless and feel she doesn't want to give me the chance. is it too late? if not how much more can i say to convince her to be open?

thank you

Wow - I know exactly what you're talking about.. My wife and I are in the same situation.. I did not give her the respect and love and devotion I should have.. We've been married for almost 7 years, but together for 12.. We have two children (2 1/2 and 6).. She finally had enough back around the 20th of January, and told me so, and that we needed to be apart.. She expected me to be an [censored], and tell her there's the door - but for some reason - I finally got it!! I soul-searched for a day or so, and realized I had wronged her all this time. I had taken her for granted. Unfortunately, for her - she had mentally already left the relationship 1-2 months earlier, so there was no real compromise on her side.. I did manage to get her to have an "in-house" separation for about 5-6 weeks, but she did move out just three days ago to a rented house. My wife says the same things.. Why now?? after 12 years, and all of a sudden, I'm a different person?? She doesn't really believe it.. I believe it, and I feel as you, that I am making life-long changes for the better. I also am committed to our marriage, and hope for a reconciliation. She says she doesn't trust me, and I think she is waiting for the "real me" to come out... She just doesn't believe I am not still an [censored].. Again - I know I've changed, but she doesn't have that belief... atleast not yet.. She is trying to find herself, and to figure out if she "wants" to be with me.. I would presume yours is doing the same.. We are both in individual counseling right now, but she has not yet agreed to couples/marriage counseling.. Hopefully soon.. My wife is also apparently open to reading... If your wife is, then that is a huge opportunity for her to get educated, such as with this site, and with the books His Needs/Her Needs and Lovebusters.. If you haven't gotten them and read them yet - then get them now!!! Don't wait any longer.. I don't know if it's too late for you, or for me and my wife... All we can do is work on ourselves, and try to "influence" our spouses to do the same... Turning to God is a necessity as well for both of you... If you both can do these things, then regardless of what you're facing - there is HOPE!! Don't ever give up on your wife.. You say you have been the catalyst for her feelings, and you need to take responsibility for that... But don't ever stop loving her, or give up on her.. Commit your love to her, and the Prove it with your actions.. I wish you all the best.. and don't stop working on yourself...

I hate to say it but I'm in with both of you. I have been married for almost 15 years, we have 3 boys 14,11 & 8. She was a stay at home mom for the last 14 years but went to work last year. We have had our share of difficult times but somehow we were able to work through them. She has gone through some major changes, along with her new job she has lost over 70 lbs within the last year and a half.
Along with the weight loss she became a different person. Now she is saying that we need to seperate.
I'll admit that I have not always done or said the right things and have basically been a complete [censored]!
As with your wives, mine has also put up walls & says this has been building up over the years. She now has the confidence to do what she needs to do to be happy. She wants me to move out for a while so she can figure out who she is & what she wants.
We started marriage counseling, after the first session she told the therapist that she just couldn't try any longer. I feel that it is up to me to try & make this work, where do I start????
It is just so overwhelming......
I wish the best for both of you guys, I hate to see others where I am......

i hate being in this position but have nobody to blaim but myself, i can't beleive i was in denial when she was giving me the hints of her unhappiness. Now i feel like i have driven her away for good. I just hope she gives me a chance to show how much i really love her and appreciate her.

good luck to you both also!

Obviously we don't have the corner on the market for this situation.. Although I hate to hear of all of you going through what I am - it does somehow make one feel a little better knowing your not alone in your misery. I truly do not believe there is no hope.. for any of us.. Especially if both people are reading.. As the good Doctor says - you "CAN" fall in Love again if you work on his program.. The big issue is apparently their lack of trust and belief in us - and understandably so.. We have earned their mistrust.. Our marriages may end, but regardless - life "WILL" go on.. and we will hopefully learn from what has happened and what we've done.. Whether it be with our wives, or with a future significant other - we need to seriously learn from all of this, and be the men we all know we can be, not only for our partners, but also for ourselves. I think you would agree that when we were disrespecting our wives and not giving them the attention they deserved - we also were not happy.. The anger and frustrations was ever so present all the time.. Now that we are learning to address the woman's needs, and understanding ourselves, we are feeling better inside. The thing is, especially if you have kids - we will "always" have some type of relationship with our current wives. She will see the change, and who knows - maybe we can save our marriages, with their help of course, and maybe not... but even if it does end - she will see a better you.. and it has been known for couples to get divorced and then end up back together again.. Sometimes it takes a major issue like this to force major change, which aligns the two people up for a stronger and happier relationship.. I truly hope for the best for you, and I will pray for you.. God willing - we will find the strength to continue on this path.. As far as where you go from here... I think we simply need to keep in mind that we can only "control" us, and we need to work on "us". If both spouses can read and educate themselves with the information in this site and the books available, then I think there is significant hope.. If they don't want to, then I think at some point - they will regret their decisions... Hopefully they will see the value of working on the marriage, but we can not "make" them. I know it feels like we are helpless - and we are to a point.. but we need to keep on keepin on.. Especially for the kids.. we can be better fathers then we have been.. Just keep a positive outlook... always try to be in a good mood when you're around her.. If she won't accept physical attention, then you need to always let her know you are there for her.. and if she has a need - fill it.. whether it be flowers, or something simple that shows her you love her and are devoted to her.. If she sees you turn away in anger or frustration - she will shut down on you.. Your actions and temperment at this point will mean more to her than even she will admit.. but you need to keep it going.. This isn't a one or two month thing... We need to continually work on this to make our changes permenant.. She's probably going to be watching and waiting to see if you "revert" back to your "old" self.. Don't let that happen... Make her really question what's she's doing.. Don't make it easy for her to leave such a quality man - cause there are only a handful of us that would even step up to this plate of self inspection and improvement that we are doing.. I'm proud of you for doing it... and a piece of her is too... Good luck guys... Keep the information flowing on this board so we can hear of your challenges and hopefully your victories... God Speed...

Doesn't anyone,do counseling together ? for the past 7 yrs,and more really .my H & myself[mostly myself]did counseling apart.We are now.He's moved out[ 6wks] never has time for me at all.Never did in 20 yrs.. He doesn't love me.Im moving on.
I can't help but hate him,more each day..I just can't help it.. But it would just seem to make it work,the couple has to agree on something..& all counseling it on a different page most of the time from.my experiance's.. ???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sameas... I would like to do couseling together with my wife - but she said she won't until her individual counselor tells her to.. I guess she doesn't feel like she's strong enough yet to do that.. I don't know.. but you're right.. In order to truly get a good picture of where you are in your relationship and where you want to go with it - you need to get into couples/marriage counseling together.. It's a shame that more people don't do that without a fight..

personally,Like in my case.I think its a reason not to deal with the marriage.[or in my case]got the ok,to leave from a person unconnected,to us.I did get to meet the 1 counsler,my H was seeing.And,he[the counsler] was part of the prob.But,if my H had really wanted help to save our marriage.then he would have stopped seeing his counsler.To go together,to 1 that could help us.I don't believe my M will be saved now.But,Im gaining alot of insight,by reading others situations,here.I was so in the dark.for so many yrs.& I went to counseling for many many yrs[to learn to be better person/wife ??]....but, I hid everything,that was going wrong.because I felt so shameful.for far to many yrs....as of yet .Ive not found any on this sight as selfish,and disconected as my H.I think my H's moving out was the best thing that could have happened at this point.

There's hope. my W and I went through a several month separation, and came out the other side stronger and better than I would've/could've imagined.

Similar situation, married 8 years, 7.999 of them miserable.

I have a posting of my original story aorund here somewhere.

Well, I certainly hope that my wife and I can actually get to a counselor "together".. At this point, I'm certainly not impressed with her counselor, but she seems to be waiting on every word from her.. I get the impression her counselor doesn't like men much.. I don't know - we'll see..

Hey Jaye - it is nice to hear of someone having success.. Tell me - how did your separation go?? By that I mean, how much contact did you have with her during the separation?? Did you have kids to deal with too??

The reason I'm asking is my wife and I have only been physically separated for just over 1 week at this point. She says she needs her space to figure things out.. Yet, especially due to the kids, I have seen her atleast 3 times during this first week, and I'm going over to her place tonight to pick the kids up and take them to an early movie.. so I'll see her again.. Is this bad?? In order for the separation to work, how much "no contact" does there have to be for her to "find her space" and maybe start missing me.. I'm assuming that is part of the reason some separations are a success - the missing each other part... but how can she miss me if the last few months of us being together haven't been great... If you leave on a somewhat sour note - why would she miss me??

I'm concerned that I'm not giving her the space she needs, and in doing so, am cutting my chances of getting back together with her.. We (especially her) have lost that "in love" feeling, although I'm working on our marriage feverishly, she is much more withdrawn about it.. I dropped off the book His Needs Her Needs to her the night before last. When she had the kids call me last night, I asked her if she had the chance to look at the book yet and she said she had only read the preface so far.. I don't know if she actually read the preface or not, and I don't know if she will actually read the book... I certainly hope so..

I'm grabbing at straws here... She went to her counselor yesterday.. I asked her last night how it went and she said fine.. no elaboration at all..

When I was over her place the night before last (Sunday Night) I went down to the store to get her some Pepsi (she loves Pepsi) cause she didn't have any.. Then she tried to pay me for it.. I told her no, that I was trying to "court" her, and I wanted to do nice things for her without expecting anything in return..

It's almost as if she doesn't want to open up to me, or get anything from me so that she doesn't feel like she owes me anything.. I don't know...

Holy crap.. I'm trying so hard to get my head and heart straight and strong, and work on our marriage, but sometimes I think I'm going crazy!! Jaye - it's is totally awesome to hear of someone succeeding... I hope and pray that we are one of them as well..

Wow, this is great. All these guys who admit they were an "[censored]" and seem to be truely willing to change. I left my husband and he did the whole I'm going to change thing. Brought me the first flowers of our whole marriage etc. To me it was complete bull****. I told him I wasn't happy and why many times. He ignored me until I left. I even had an affair and told him. It was with another woman, so he blew that off too. We divorced. I am married again and don't want to make the same mistakes. Do I have to bring up divorce to get him to listen? Is there anything your wives could have done early on?

YES!! Make it a point.. Put it in their faces... Make them see there is a "real" problem here.. and that it could have very severe consequences... If you can put that realism into it while you are both still able to work on it.. The you have so much more power in your recovery process...

I'm sorry to say that my wife and I may never make it to marriage counseling... She called me today and told me that she was not willing to work on our marriage, and that it wouldn't change how she feels... That she could never feel "In Love" with me ever again.. I posted this on "SEPARATION II" under the Divorce Board..

I am so very very sad at this moment.. I feel like my life is over.. but I know I need to go on for my kids... I've been thru one divorce already in my life, and it was the lowest point of my life, and caused me to go bankrupt... and that was without kids... Now I have two wonderful kids (2 1/2 and 6) to think about... (step parents, swapping time with them, custody, child support, etc, etc.)

My wife is not open to any possibility of me winning back her love.. She doesn't see any possibility of feeling that for me, so she is not willing to go there... She's only been moved out for about 1 1/2 weeks, and I haven't had the chance to "date her" or anything... It's just over - apparently... She says that no matter how I've changed - she will always see me as the person that made her feel this way..

Dear God - give me strength... It feels like I need to go to my attorney and start the Divorce process... I can't believe we're at this point!! This, is what the "separation" process does most of the time I think... I fought it - didn't want it to happen, but she insisted it was the only chance we had.. So what could I do??

I part of me feels that she needs to be "out" of our relationship so that she can start a relationship with her "emotional friend" that she had. Maybe not - but my gut is telling me that is effecting us more then I think... I guess time will tell...

I am staying in our home we bought just 4 months ago... all alone... it's so quiet... I think I need to sell this asap... I can't start a life here... I don't know what to do?? I don't have the circle of friends that she has... I don't have anyone to "hang out" with.. My energy is gone... Thank the lord I have the kids starting Friday night for the week. That will occupy my time for a bit.. but I have to go to a B-Day party on Sunday, and my wife will be there.. and I have to drop the kids off to her every morning next week, and pick them up after work every night - because she is acting as the daycare to save us $500.00 per month.. until she gets a job...

I know people say there is "life" after the person you're with, but is there really?? I don't want to get into the dating scene again.. especially with kids... I don't think it's right to have a revolving door so to speak of people in your life when your kids are there... I'm looking at being very alone over the next several months atleast... and that is scarring the living hell out of me... I don't know if I can take this again...

JD
Thanks for the advise. I talked to my H very frankly about the main issue we had and told him flat out that I can't live this way. He didn't respond well at first, then he noticed how sad I was and we talked again. He told me "do what you want, don't worry about what I think" I told him I didn't want a marriage like that. I never yelled or said anything mean. I must have said something right because he came to his senses at least about the one subject and said he was a jerk and being selfish and I was right. Being a little more direct was exactly what I needed to do. Thanks.
That sucks that this is your 2nd marriage and it seems to be ending up in the toilet. Believe me, It's not the end of your life or your happiness. This is husband #4 for me. After 3 I quit and decided no more. About the time I was happy on my own, this one came along. It's not a bed of roses, but he is committed to the marriage and he does have my back most of the time.
My advise to you is to be selfish for awhile. Work on you and your relationship with your kids. Find a group of people to "hang" with. My kids and my friends give me more than my H. I know how blown away the 2nd D is. You think this just can't be happening again. It sucks, but it really does get better.
M

mwolf
I'm so glad to see being upfront and honest helped you out.. It is a good policy to live by.. otherwise, it festers, and feelings are impacted - eventually to the point my wife is at right now..

She feels there is no hope for us.. That is hard to accept after being together for 12 years... You would think that there was enough between us for her to take a good hard honest look at what's going on.. and if for nothing else - work on trying to deal with feelings and revitalize the love for our kids sake... I know people say you shouldn't do it for the kids.. and I agree - you shouldn't stay together just for the kids.. but I do think the kids are a huge reason to do "everything" you can possibly do to make sure there is absolutely no way to get our marriage back.. But - that is how I'm thinking and feeling right now... Not her..

My heart is breaking.. my stomach is constantly churning... I have no energy.. no focus or direction... I have the kids this weekend, and she has made tons of plans to party, party, party with her friends, and who knows who else.... I'm just sick to my stomach.. I can't believe at 41, I'm at this place... and I'm not saying that it's not my fault she feels this way.. for the most part - it is my fault.. I accept responsiblity for that..

I know you said find some people to hang with... but that's easier said then done... I just don't know what to do at this point.. I'm still committed to my marriage.. and I don't want to do anything that I would not feel good about.. I just don't know...

It doesn't make any difference anyway.. My life as I have known it is apparently over... Unbeleivable... Right now it is literally one breath at a time...

Hey JDS

YES!! Make it a point.. Put it in their faces...

Not va very good way to open a conversation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I do not agree with the direct in the face theory.... it is in fact the worst.

Nick !!

Put on Nick,,
I didn't mean to be rude about it.. I simply meant to not let things get swept under the rug.. to communicate... You have to do everything you can for the other person to take the situation seriously..

I was speaking from emotion when I posted that as well, because my wife and I are now headed for a divorce.. and I could have stopped it, but I didn't think there was a real problem.. She did... and she felt it for so long, that now she can't envision ever loving me again.. So she currently does not see any options in front of her except divorce...

This is obviously tearing me apart... In fact I just came from the very first couselintg meeting we have been to together.. and in that meeting she stated for the first time since this all was happening, that she was headed for divorce... up until this point there have been hints of hope - atleast for me... but she doesn't feel it... What I'm saying is: None of this would have happened if she had stood up for her feelings, and somehow made me realize that this was for real... and that it was very important to her and critical for our relationship!! I'm not saying it's her fault.. I take all the blame... but, instead of being the "peacekeeper" and not communicating to your spouse how serious something is - you are only tearing apart that persons love bank, and it WILL come back to haunt you.... Just like it did me... That's what I was trying to get at...

JDS
It really worked to just say it plain to my H about things I needed more of like affection. I had to handle the criticism with a little lighter note. He still has issues from his last marriage. I feel like I really need to wake my H up and I would rather be harsh than silent. Thanks.
I believe in trying for the kids too. Not staying ONLY for them if one or both are miserable. Maybe if you are strong through her party time, she will realize there is more to life than that. A good father is a huge turn on to most women. Continue to be a good Dad. If you can't just go out and make new friends, your kids are also good for taking your mind off things. I have so much fun with mine. Hey, maybe take a class. Community Education or something. Hang in there.
M

Hey JDS I didn't mean to be so harsh on my end... I understand DV is really a difficult situation. Sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> How ever it sounds you like you may just have a chance to save it... not sure. But whatever happens, some of us are here to let you know we really understand the pain.

Nick

Thanks everyone..

I really appreciate (and need) the feedback.. I am trying so very hard to be strong.. but I definitely am walking a tight-wire.. I saw my wife on Friday night when I picked up the kids.. She said she was sorry (I think about hurting me) and then she hugged me.. I told her that I thought she was making a mistake.. That I knew she felt the love between us, and that I did too... I also told her that she was her own person, and she was making her own decisions.. Yet - she seems to be so indifferent, and laid-back.. Like she has no emotion in my corner, or atleast not very much..

While I was there getting some stuff I was supposed to take.. My wife reaches over to take an eyelash that was laying on my cheek... She held it on her finger and said I should make a wish and blow it off her finger... My 6 yr old daughter was there, and she asked if she could make the wish, I told her of course she could, knelt down and we held hands... Then my daughter wished for our family to be together - and we blew off the eyelash.. Holy moly... if that doesn't effect her - I don't know what will...

I broke down on Friday night.. I had my kids at the dinner table, so I went into my room and started praying... I asked for forgiveness of my sins, and asked God into my life... I also asked him to heal our marriage... I cried like I haven't cried in years... My daughter came in and saw me.. and then my son... She got real upset and started crying because she has never seen daddy cry before... She asked what was wrong and why I was crying... When I could speak I told her I was crying because I was talking to God, and because I Loved her Mom so very much... Later that night, when we were going to bed, my 6 yr old daughter was praying, and she asked God to touch her mom's heart, and bring our family back together again... Talk about ripping my heart out of my chest!!

The kids and I went to church Sunday morning, and I met with the minister - and asked to be saved.. It was again, a very emotional time.. The kids enjoyed their time, and we plan on going every other Sunday (when I have the kids)..

I saw my wife again on Sunday afternoon at a family b-day party.. She came over to talk to me after awhile, and I told her I had asked to be saved.. and also what had happened Friday night (above)... She didn't seem to care one way or the other...

I guess I'm beginning to understand I have no control over her or her life... and that I can only do what I can do... The big thing that is really eating at me is that I know we Love each other... I know that a mere two weeks ago she was open to working on our marriage.. but now - she seems so distant... so blocked off from any possibility for us... She is focused on getting a divorce... and nothing I am doing, or the kids are saying is having any effect on her determination to be out of our marriage... I just simply don't get it... Why?? Why wouldn't she feel enough to want to atleast try??.. or atleast be open to marriage counseling or giving it time?? I guess my heart tells me that a parent should do everything they thought was possible to save and heal the marriage.. if not for anything else, then for the kids.. Atleast then you could say - I did everything I could to save it... No regrets... Such a shame... Please God - Give me strength to endure, and please touch my wife's heart.. Even though it seems absolutely hopeles - please help us heal this marriage..

Hey everyone,,

Any updates on all of you??? Any success??

Not looking good for my situation.. The only positive is that (as far as I know) she hasn't filed for the D yet.. I expect it anytime though..

So how do all of you deal with the mixed signals from your spouse?? I just don't get it!! How can they send these mixed signals, but yet be so dead-set on getting a divorce?? How do women think??