Well H mom called again. Once again we got into a huge fight. she claims i am controling and have taken him away from the family. Which is not true. we do not go there b/c i am not welcom. h mom thinks staying with me is totally wrong. she also thinks she knows everything about cs. h called domestic relations but they said ow must file first. h mom claims h will not be able to see child and ow can keep oc from h and me. is this true? h wants to see oc and i want him to take responiblity )(even thought h mom thinks i do not want him to do anything with oc) all she cares about is oc. she wanted us to have kids as soon as we got married;. UNREAL. sorry just venting. how can people treat others with such disrespect. i said i would talk to her last night but h would not let me talk to her. i heard everything she said b/c she was so loud. i guess i am just aweful to stay with h and want to keep a commetment. any suggenstions on how to deal with her. also, do we need a lawyer to set up cs? is it nessisary?
any help would be great.

jen

jen,
Generally, the burden is on the woman to file for child support. There is probably nothing you can do in that regard until she does. The good news, though, is that if your h wants to have contact with his child, it is as simple as filing a custody action against ow. He does NOT have to wait until a child support order is filed to start an action in custody/visitation. All you will need to do is find an attorney who can file on your behalf, or you can trot yourself down to the county courthouse and pick up a "pro se" custody packet, in which you just fill in the blanks and file with your courthouse. Custody/visitation and child support are not really related issues. You can have visitation without ever paying a dime of child support and vice versa. One does not automatically preclude the other. If your h wants to file pro se (on his own behalf without an attorney) go get the do-it-yourself packet. Otherwise, find an attorney who does free consultations and see what it entails. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. What state are you in?
-cd

Thanks for the advice. IS there a chance he would have to pay support and not be able to see the baby?

jen,
Sure there is a chance. Custody is something that has to be pursued rather aggresively, or it goes nowhere. Child support, on the other hand, is pretty much a given. All the laws are with the woman on that. If a father wants to see the baby, he has to really go after the opportunity, b/c the laws are stacked against him. Honestly, it is one of the things that bothers me the most. Fathers generally have all of the obligations right off the bat, but none of the rights.
-cd

I know in Ga, if the woman does not want the father to see child and they were not married at the time of the birth the man has to file a petition to legitimize the child first before he can petition for visitation/custody. I helped my XH file his Motion pro se'. This was required even though DNA tests were already on file and he had been paying CS for years. tew

I also know that unless a parent can be proven to be a total degenerate it is very rare for visitation to be denied. tew

Tew,
You are absolutely right. It is rare for visitation to be denied completely. However, I have seen men (and occasionally noncustodial women) expend exorbitant amounts of money in order to get that visitation. You have to pay an attorney to start the action (advise getting an attorney unless you really know what you are doing) and then pay the court costs, mediation fees, etc. etc. And the worst of it is that this process usually takes MONTHS. In the situation of a newborn child, the catch is that a guy can file for visitation right off the bat, but in the time it takes to get the case moving, he has no contact with the child. And then when it finally gets to court, the judge will most likely limit visitation to an hour or two BECAUSE he did not have previous contact!!! Of course, in most instances, the hour or two increases as time goes by to a longer period of time. But still - the chances of a father having primary custody of a child born out of wedlock is terribly low. And don't you really think that as an equal parent, the father should be just as entitled to a claim of primary custody? My personal view is that there should be a presumption of joint (50/50) custody with every child so that both parents have full access right off the bat.

While distance prevents me and my ex from having actual 50/50 custody, I do allow him to have the children every single weekend, and I give him additional time as it becomes available - days off of school, holiday times - he gets them. I feel that children should be able to know each parent and have quality time accordingly.
-cd

You are right, it does happen. I just don't get these women who do that to their kids. I know my XSG who has known my D since birth and lived w/ her for 28 mos is still a part of ker life. Legally he has no rights. However, I encourage that contact.

I know it took a while for me to get my XH his visitation rights. Kind of crazy the whole legitimation (sp?) process. You don't have to do it to be required to pay CS or carry ins or even do a DNA test. It IS required to pursue visitation.

I feel that children should be able to know each parent and have quality time accordingly.

I agree W/ you 100% on that as long as neither parent is abusive. tew

<small>[ January 04, 2003, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: tewjtm ]</small>

I agree with you CD--put the children first!! My H's child deserves the participation of BOTH parents. Luckily our OW and I can cooperate--it's my H who wants to run away from his OC--but he is starting to come around.

Alright you two ladies...CD and TEW: Let me ask a question....what does pro se mean? And, I'm gonna use Twiisty in this example...If all of the other stuff doesn't work and we find ourselves in a dna situation and if he is proven to be father, yada, yada, yada, then....... Do we gain or lose anything by giving sole custody to the ow? H does not want any contact (and truthfully I do not either) so I wonder about this tactic that Twiisty used for her ow....What does that do legally? Is there a legal form? I realize part of why they did it was to send a message to ow that they were not going to be around for child (not to get out of any cs because they pay that) but I think Twiisty says that ow is responsible for raising child and also if another man wanted to adopt oc then it would be fine too....
Does the court/law assume that mother always has custody (sole)?
I hope I explained myself okay in that post....feel like I'm rattling a bit but I like the idea that Twiisty has.
Thanks,
Angelia

Mobe: Girl....you are much bigger than me. I admire the heck out of you!

Do you mind if I ask....why is your H so opposed to this? Is it the constant reminder or is he worried about your marriage?

And, why are you so insistent on visitation? Do you have a worked out plan yet?

I'm not trying to start trouble....I'm just curious. This is a learning process for all of us so I wonder if I'm missing something in the "big" picure. I know there are people on here who have visitation/shared custody, etc. I admire them.

just wondering!

Angelia

Po se' is a latin term that basically means filing and representing yourself in court.

I am originally from Fla and the concept is widely used and accepted. However, where I live in Ga is different. I actually had to convince the Court's clerk I could file the Motions myself. It is just not done that way around here.

I was lucky w/ my sons father as CS was never an issue. However, my D was a different story. I had no monay for atty and did not want to use the state's system. So I researched it myself. Through trial and error and a very helpful judge (in this area I have even called the man at home) I have been able to successfully represent myself in Court - numerous times. 21 to be exact. I have got a written Order for 24% of his income. It is in the form of an IDO so I get $ before he does. I have took him to Court 3 separate times for Contempt.

I assisted XH in getting visitation rights for his kids. I also got my sons' father custody of his D (that he had before we got together and was in FC). However, he later allowed maternal grandparents to raise her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

cd could answer the legal questions better. But if an OW has child it is my understanding that she usually is presumed to hve sole legal custody anyway.

I haven't read twilsty's story, but I will later. I believe it is your choice whether to have contact w/ OC. However, if OW was to die are you stating you and your H would not want the child? Or would you allow another family member of hers to raise him/her? tew

TEW: I'm afraid I may sound like a horrible horrible person for this but.....if OW dies then yes, probably her family would raise the oc.

I am in no position to make judgements. That is your choice. I don't have to agree w/ it, but I respect it 100% tew

tew is absolutely correct on what pro se means. NOt much I can add there. In any kind of complex litigation, it is better to have an attorney (can I offer you our business card <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ?) but in simple matters it often saves a lot of money to file on your own behalf. I filed my own divorce action, and also obtained a Protection From Abuse order on my own. However, it depends on what is at stake. If my ex-h sued me for custody of our children (which he is threatening to do) I would probably hire an attorney to represent me because custody is such an important and detailed course of litigation.
-cd