I’ve been reading and posting here for well over two years and it has definitely had an influence on how I’ve handled my situation with BS and xMM. A lot of good has come of my experiences and interactions here. But, I think I may have made a horrible mistake. So many times I’ve read how wonderful it would be if another man (new H to OW?) would adopt OC and be a father to him/her, that I believed and acted under that premise. BF has been so wonderful to my little guy. The love he has for Jonas is as plain as the nose on his face. The last couple of months we have been toying with the subject of marriage. Going hand in hand with that subject was the possibility of him adopting my son. In my eyes, it was a heartwarming sentiment and would benefit everyone…especially Jonas. I didn’t see it as taking anything away from xMM because he would always be welcome to be a part of his son’s life. The reality of our situation, regardless of emotion, is that xMM does not see our son. He does not talk to him because he is still too young to talk. He does not write to him because he is too young to read. You get what I’m saying? xMM has not developed a “true” father/son relationship with our child. I’m not in any way implying that he does not love Jonas. I guess what I’m getting at is that, thinking solely of Jonas and what is best for him, I would think that xMM stepping back and permitting BF to be my son’s father in every way that counts, would be the best gift he could give our son. So, with these thoughts in mind, I broached the subject with BS. It was supposed to be nothing more than an informative relay. I was asking or demanding anything and I was very clear that I had not made any decisions in regard to this matter. I simply wanted to put it out there and get some feedback from her. That’s where I made my mistake. BS was offended and angry that I would even consider “taking” xMM’s son away from him. She immediately put up a defensive wall that I could not penetrate. I tried to explain in every which way I could think of, but to no avail. She does not see it in terms of giving Jonas the opportunity to have a “real, live, hands on dad”. She only sees it as me taking something from her husband. She strongly “advised” that I not dare to even suggest this to xMM because he would flip out. This makes me so sad. My intention was not to hurt or offend anyone. I want only what is best and will benefit all…especially my son. BF loves him so much and would love to accept full responsibility for Jonas and officially acknowledge him as his son (when we marry). I thought that BS and xMM would want the same….not to mention being relieved of the economic burden. They feel they should provide for Jonas and have never shirked that responsibility. I really thought BS would see the positive of what I was presenting to her. She didn’t. Not at all. She could not get past the “how could you even think of taking Jonas away from xMM?!”. Oh my. What have I done and how do I fix it?

<small>[ February 27, 2003, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: ohbratti1 ]</small>

ohB1 - has xMM ever expressed an interest in knowing your son? Don't feel bad at all - you are doing what you think is best for Jonas, you're not being spiteful or anything like that at all!! And how can you "take away" something that has never been "his" in the first place?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess what I’m getting at is that, thinking solely of Jonas and what is best for him.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OB1,

The above statement says it ALL!!! Your situation and "relationship" w/xMM and BS has always been a little shakey(for lack of a better word)! You still need to think of what's best for Jonas! If your BF is so loving, and willing to be his Daddy in every way, then I wouldn't worry too much about what BS said! She's angry about the whole situation! First, that you had this child, when she's had such troubles, then, that you get CS from her H, and now, in her eyes, you are trying to "take Jonas away"! You are doing what's right in your "plans", which is all that they are right now! I mean, he doesn't see Jonas, doesn't really have any contact with him, why should it truly matter, at this point? You even said that there can still be contact, but what is really behind the BS's "outburst"!? I would continue to plan with your BF, and not worry until that time comes. If your BF is so much more of a father than xMM, then you really aren't taking anything away from anyone. In fact, you are giving two people(Jonas and BF) a wonderful gift! Jonas gets a "real" Daddy and your BF gets to be a Daddy to a wonderful little boy!

JMHO, and it's great to see you post again!

Love,

Tigger

PS, I just remembered, did BS actually get P, and if so, did she carry to term? I seem to remember you saying something about that.

Ohbratti1,
I find it strange the way BS acted.

It's not like you said XMM couldn't be in Jonas' life, so I don't get it.

I guess let it go. You can always change Jonas surname to match your new H's, right? He'd be the one always around Jonas, right?

Just do what you want as XMM is married w/a new baby D, and you may be married w/a little Jonas....

If XMM starts to come around later on when Jonas can talk, take it from there. I know you'll be honest with him as to who bio dad is. It probably won't matter yet as he's so young.

Hey , if they want to continue cs and don't complain, keep it....

Only other thing I can think of is W may have had a knee-jerk reaction thinking "After all that's happened, you just can't disappear w/Jonas" Maybe her H will get angry...but OH well, we've all been angry here about a lot worse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Maybe she misunderstood? You weren't going to keep Jonas away?

Blessings OB!.

love
Debi

OB1,

I don't think you did anything wrong. Perhaps the BS acted the way she did is after all the time she spent trying to "adjust" to the reality of the situation, now it's just another change she might have to "adjust" to again? Who knows....

I agree, you can change Jonas' name to your married name, no law against that. If you and BF are seriously thinking about adoption, talk to a lawyer and see what you can and cannot do and how it can be broached with MM. No harm in preparing for what "might be".

I wish my Husband's ex-ow would broach me with that subject, I'd offer to pay for the adoption!
But, that is my prayer that OC would have that with her Step-daddy. Not for us to get out of financial obligation, but because essentially, her step-daddy is her daddy anyway...why not make it official?

Keep us posted as this is an area, I'm keenly interested in.

I'm sure the BS misunderstood, but in the future, any more talk about it, I would put it in writing so you can make your point across and it can be read and re-read without emotions jumping in "clouding" her thought process. I have to do that now with my ex-husband and his wife. We had a recent "mis-hearing" incident ourselves involving dinobon.

Hugs, prayers and do tell about any upcoming nuptials so that I can send you something via the MB fund!

Hugs,
Twiisty

JoshMom,
I&#8217;m trying not to feel bad, but I can&#8217;t seem to help it. We&#8217;ve done pretty well at making peace. I wanted to be the success story. xMM is in the military and we are currently on opposite coasts. My little guy is 2 years old and xMM has spent almost zero time with him, due to geography. However, the sentiment has always been one of wanting to know Jonas and be with him, when he was old enough. I&#8217;m still agreeable to that and think it would be great. I also think that Jonas deserves to have a full time daddy and BF is earning the right to legally claim Jonas as his own child - in every other way, he already acts as if he&#8217;s his son. I&#8217;m just at a loss right now. I didn&#8217;t expect this kind of reaction.

Tigger,
I know I have to do what is best for Jonas, but it&#8217;s so hard to sort through all the guilt, the guilt trips, the attitude, the hurt feelings, etc., and remain objective in my decision making. I&#8217;m really good at starting off strong and then caving when someone plays on my sympathies. In short, I&#8217;m a sucker for a sob story&#8230;it doesn&#8217;t even have to be a good sob story. Right now I&#8217;m really confused by BS&#8217;s reaction&#8230;and yet maybe I&#8217;m not. Tigger you can relate to this: BS&#8217;s H was deployed to Kuwait last month and will be there for a year. Their daughter was born in September. Maybe she&#8217;s feeling overwhelmed and is trying to &#8220;protect&#8221; her husband&#8217;s interests while he&#8217;s gone. I&#8217;m speculating here. What do you think? Do you think she&#8217;s feeling that &#8220;momma bear&#8221; instinct with regard to her H? BTW, BF&#8217;s reserve unit was just recalled to active duty. It looks like he&#8217;ll be either be going to Kuwait or will be transferred to the Coast Guard for Homeland security. It never dawned on me that this could happen. His reservist status was not something I ever gave any thought to. How do you cope?

Gem!
Yes, her response was unexpected. Maybe she just has too much on her plate right now, and my timing was off. Then again, if she thinks I&#8217;m going to disappear with Jonas, I can understand her &#8220;knee-jerk&#8221; reaction. I know that if I perceived any kind of threat to my relationship with my child, I would act first and ask questions later. I&#8217;m hoping that she&#8217;ll make some time to think about what I actually said and not what she thought she was hearing.

OB1

Twiisty,
I think you&#8217;re on to something here. She might be feeling like she went through all of this pain and suffering for nothing. In the end, I&#8217;m going to ride off into the sunset with my life intact. It doesn&#8217;t seem so fair when I look at it like that. I could have been more sensitive about it. Little Miss Know It All me, had to answer her questions. At one point she wanted to know if I could ever sue xMM to relinquish his parental rights so that BF could adopt Jonas. I piped in with a resounding yes, not because I intended to ever do that, but because I knew the answer&#8230;.kind of like when you&#8217;re watching Jeopardy and you can&#8217;t resist responding, and then you&#8217;re so proud of yourself for having the right answer (I know, I need a life). Anyway, I don&#8217;t think I helped ease her mind.

Hmmmm, upcoming nuptials??? Is somebody getting married? In all seriousness, BF and I have been doing the &#8220;would you marry me if I asked you&#8221; tango. It&#8217;s kind of comical&#8230;along the lines of Abbott and Costello. BUT! BF has been showing me rings and asking me what I would like to have. After awhile, I told him he was taking the element of surprise out of it if he has me pick my own ring. So, he had me describe what I like and tell him what my preference was, as far as the cut, and has filed it away for future reference. If he officially pops the question, I&#8217;ll hightail it here and let everyone know!

OB1

OB1,

I'm sorry to hear about BF's reserve unit, but maybe he will jsut go to the coast guard and stay close! As for BS "protecting xMM's assets", that could be what's happening! Maybe you could let her know, I know you already tried, but try again, to let her know that this is just something you've discussed and thought about! You could also let her know that if this is something that you want to happen, you won't act upon it until xMM can be back home to discuss it with him! Another thing is that it is his(xMM's) decision, and one that he can make w/out his W if he so chooses, and that may also be why she responded the way she did! I would just let it go, with her, for now. Let it "die down" for now. You remember how sensitive you still were even up to a year after Jonas was born! She may still be dealing, along with the added stress of xMM being deployed into a very potentially dangerous situation! Just let it be for now, and concentrate on what you do have!

I hope that I helped!

Love,

Tigger

Congratulations on thinking ahead and getting on with your life. I don't see how anyone can parent a child from three thousand miles away?? It's one thing to discuss doing the right thing and another thing to actually do it. Sounds like your boyfriend is willing to step up to the plate.

If you don't mind some "motherly" advice from me to you, please enjoy a long engagement, like a year so you can see your friend's reaction in several situations--how he acts in a crisis and how he acts when he's sick, how he acts when you're sick, etc. I know you know this already but I couldn't help saying it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> OH and don't forget to see if your boyfriend is open to the MB concepts laid out in HNHN!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Remember when xMM was trying to relocate to your area and it just wasn't meant to be? I believe all that happened for a reason.

I support you getting on with your life. You really do have to think of your son first. Jonas won't be happy if his mom is miserable. Give yourself permission to move on while your son is young enough to have a life with as much stability as you can provide.

<small>[ February 27, 2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

p.s.I don't believe you made a mistake. Please do not second guess yourself when clearly, you know your intentions were pure and you have always had BS's feelings in mind.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, but it seems like the BS is afraid that Jonas may be her daughter's only sibling. Didn't you say they had trouble conceiving? I can't remember but perhaps she had hopes and dreams of them knowing each other or something like that.

I don't think you are being selfish or cruel to xMM and his wife. I don't see how xMM can miss what he doesn't have? xMM doesn't have Jonas in his daily life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Are you receiving CS? If so, wouldn't the BS be relieved to have that financial burden lifted a bit? Especially since they don't even have regular visitation and there is no personal attachment nor affectionate bond with the baby???

Gosh, I hope I don't sound insensitive... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> *sigh*

Dear OB1(kenobi?;0),

Repeat after all of us. "I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't do anything wrong." Making polite, positive, considerate suggestions in not wrong. If you had torn into her, tore her H apart verbally, etc. you would have been in the wrong. You can't make her feel anything. You are not responsible for her reactions as long as you were polite and considerate in your presentation.

OK, on to the situation. I think Mr. J and I are in the situation closest to yours. We live thousands of miles away from Precious. We see very little of her, but we do what we can for her--presents, phone calls, visits when we can afford them--now at the expense of our own children. I care for Precious, so does Mr. J but he suffers under a great deal of guilt for having a child that he cannot parent, that he cannot be there for in any substantial way. I have given my heart away in pieces to be able to accept and care for this child. I feel towards her as I might feel toward a step-child, fond and caring but not bonded as a mother (as I am with our two recenlty adopted children).

Our exOW is seriously involved with a man--a single man! Horray for the human capacity to evolve and make better choices. (I know that you were lied to and tricked into a relationship with this man who told you that he was single. Our exOW was a serial OW.) I hope and pray for the phone call that you made. I hope that her new BF is a good and honorable man who loves the both of them. Yes, part of me wants to be out from under the CS and the burden of having to tell our kids (right now) what an affair is and how they have a "sister" in another state that we have to go visit. (BTW, we are flying out a week from tomorrow on a short visit. Our boys are staying home with my mother and don't know why we are going.)

Mr. J would sign the papers. I think in part to put this behind him as much as possible but mostly because we see this in the child's best interest. I agree with what you said, someone loves the child enough to put his name on the line, to promise to be responsible to this child for the rest of his life. If you think about it, an adoption is a much more permanent committment than marriage in today's culture. Marriages get undone all the time--adoptions seldom do (although it is not unheard of--usually only if the child is mentally/emotionally disabled and going to be made a ward of the state.)

I talked this over with my friend (who had just guided her son through placing his child for adoption. He was 17, the mother was 15.). She thought us signing off on an adoption for Mr. J's child was a horrible thing, a complete abandonment. I don't understand the difference. In her mind she says why surrender parental rights? Precious gets all the benefits of a father with a dedicated, loving step-father and none of the rejection issues. I see it as making our lives and the lives of our own children much less complicated.

Sorry so long. I am never short-winded. I think you have nothing to be sorry for. Her reactions are her own business. I am sorry if this brings pain for your fiancee and dashes his hopes. I wish the best for you and the new family you are (probably) forming. I hope you have a wonderful marriage, a wonderful life full of blessings and that you take what you have learned her and build a marriage that never suffers what ours have.

MJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong>

Especially since they don't even have regular visitation and there is no personal attachment nor affectionate bond with the baby???

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't sound insensitive BTDT and I have never known you to sound that way. However, people can and do form attachments to children they have never met yet--it happens all the time. Women miscarry at 4 weeks of pregnancy and suffer, adopting couples get a picture of a child and then a birth parents steps forward or the child is diagnosed with some serious illness. Attachment is a mental, more than a physical bond. I still grieve the loss of the adoption of the third child in the family we adopted. Our boys have a sister who was supposed to become part of our family also. Except a Russian relative stepped forward. All I have of her are some photos and about 10 minutes worth of video. I miss her. I miss the thought of her, I miss that I was going to have a daughter as well as two sons. It is nothing like the loss I would suffer if my boys were to die now but it is still a loss. I had made a mental/emotional spiritual committment to her.

I think I also know where exOM's wife might be coming from. I learned of Precious before I Mr. J and I adopted (although we were in the process). I knew I was forever infertile. I thought "this might be as close as I get to being a mother." Maybe Precious is in my life for a reason." I so desperately wanted to be a mother that I was willing (if I had to) to settle for 4x a year and summers as she got older.

Blessings,
MJ

BTDT,

You don&#8217;t sound insensitive at all. Incidentally, the questions you raised are some of the very same ones I asked. I tried to be practical and matter of fact, while still being sensitive to her reaction.

1) I said, &#8220;Doing this would absolve xMM of any financial responsibility to Jonas and make more money available for DD.&#8221; Answer: &#8220;Jonas is not a financial burden. How can you even imply such an awful thing?!&#8221;
2) I said, &#8220;but xMM doesn&#8217;t even see Jonas, much less call him or communicate with him in any consistent manner.&#8221; Answer: &#8220;He&#8217;s still xMM&#8217;s son!&#8221;
3) I said, &#8220;How can xMM be emotionally attached to a child he doesn&#8217;t even know?&#8221; Answer: &#8220;But he is STILL HIS son!&#8221;
4) So, I say, &#8220;What about Jonas? What about what he deserves? Doesn&#8217;t he deserve to have a full time daddy, just like your DD has?&#8221; Answer: &#8220;xMM is Jonas&#8217; father and he will flip out if you even suggest that he give up his parental rights&#8230;and then you want another man to adopt him?! He won&#8217;t go for it!&#8221;
5) I say, &#8220;xMM is still his biological father and will always be welcome in Jonas&#8217; life.&#8221; Answer: &#8220;xMM will flip out! There is no way this can happen. Do not ask him this.&#8221;

After alot of repetition, and attempts to reassure, I dropped it.

Oh, and your motherly advise&#8230;.always welcome, BTDT. I have no intention of rushing into anything. BF&#8217;s unit has been recalled to active duty. He&#8217;ll most likely be transferred to the Coast Guard. He&#8217;ll be stationed about 2 hours away&#8230;which is nothing. But, until we know more about what we&#8217;re dealing with, we&#8217;re holding off on any absolutes. Tentatively? He&#8217;ll come home on weekends. We&#8217;ll do this for 6 months and then re-evaluate. If he&#8217;s released from active duty in less than a year&#8217;s time, everything will go back to the way it was before he left. If he&#8217;s going to be gone for more than a year, he&#8217;s expressed a desire for me to relocate with him. I guess I get to wait and see, just like everyone else.

OB1

MJ,

Thanks for your insight. I do believe that xMM stepping aside and clearing the way for Jonas to have this, would be the best thing for everyone in the long run. But, I&#8217;m being premature. Right now, we&#8217;re only at the talking stage. My heart was in the right place, but I think I botched it this time. I should have taken into consideration unrelated factors that appear to have had a huge impact on this conversation. I can&#8217;t help but think that she&#8217;s under a lot of stress right now&#8230;with xMM being gone. She&#8217;s going it alone with a new baby, and she&#8217;s away from her family and friends. When you compound that with the fear she&#8217;s feeling over her H&#8217;s safety&#8230;.well, I guess you could say I could have picked a better time.

MJ, I wish you peace and safety on your trip to see precious!

OB1

Obratti,

Can I be your BS? I would gladly encourage my WS to adopt out his OC to a spouse of the OW. You are very classy.

I don't think my OW would be so classy or lucky to find someone to marry her and adopt OC. But I keep praying.

Well hopefully the xMM and his wife will love and cherish the baby that they have been blessed with and not be stressing out over Jonas who they barely have spent any hands-on parenting time. It's almost like she was saying 'we're paying this money and after spending all this money...'

I could be wrong, but that thought crosses my mind reading the comments...

I'm talking about being involved in his life, not occasional visits or sending presents and money. Do they really know Jonas? Do they know what his favorite toy or movie is? Do they know what he can do? Do they know what new things he is learning or new words he is speaking? Do they know, and I mean really know his sense of humor? I'm not discounting CS, it is needed and appreciated, but kids really want us, our time, and not our money. Kids spell love, t-i-m-e.

I don't know, obratti1 but something tells me if he was really interested in being Jonas' daddy, he might be more active in Jonas' life?

Are you supposed to just tread water until the biological father can be active in Jonas' life when you have a nice man who is physically there and willing to embrace Jonas as his own? I don't see how xMM could begrudge you this? Remember his wife was speaking for him. If I know one thing about marriage, just when you think you know the person, they surprise you so I respect her as his wife, but I don't know if she should be speaking for him on this. The court wouldn't even allow that. We've read about that happening on this board too... unfortunately...

I understand emotional bonds with children we have not met face to face, but you have to admit there is a much different bond when you get to know children in person? Quality time comes out of quantity time.

Jonas deserves a daddy and we don't need this board to understand that biology doesn't make a daddy or a role model. When Jonas wants someone to show him how to fish, do you wait for 6 months until his "real" dad can come visit and maybe see if he can learn fishing then, or do you allow someone to be his role model who is already there? There's no confusion the way I see it? You move on with your life and let them move on with theirs. If they are talking about a custody battle, well bring it on. If you are ready to prove yourself, then so be it. I'm sorry but you have a right to get on with your lives.

If Jonas has a chance to have a daddy I hope xMM will do what's best for Jonas and not be possessive of a child that he barely knows and who barely knows him other than what you show and tell him.

<small>[ February 27, 2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can I be your BS?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
No $$h*+ I wish you were xow in my life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You know OHB,I have the utmost respect for you I wish more OW here had your spirit I truly do . I mean this from my heart.

You never gloat or glorify your relationship you
been sincere and remorsful since I've arrive here
because of you and only a few I know who is bogus in my opinion.

I admire your strenght and courage, I admire you.