Hello,
I just have a question because I am confused about something. I remember you writing before that you have not told your husband that your son is not biologically his. Is this still the case? I am not trying to start anything just would like to know.

Dawn

actually I believe she stated in the last thread her and her husband have talked about every thing and they are doing well.. Not an easy thing to do but I am sure it has made a difference for her

mof5,
That is why I was confused. She did say her H knows everything? I could not figure it or not. It sounded like it but was not sure. I guess I can get confused very easy. CM, I am glad that you found the courage to tell him. Good for you and it seems by your recent posts that you are on the right path for recovery.

Dawn

The have talked about the affair, or talked about paternity of the OC? What? It was kind of vague. Inquiring minds wanna know!

If CM's H found out that after 7 years that his son is not biologically his but a child of an affair and can keep moving along without skipping a beat, all I can say is wow, that's one incredible man she's got there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

first of all the affair was seven years, but the child is no where near that . and I think cm will share what she wants when and if she thinks she should. I think it is sometimes hard to share when you are not supported and sharing details about something so important is most likely done with people whom you feel are truly concerned and not people who just find any way they can to bash you...

I personally think if cm wanted to share she already would have. We should respect her privacy, her husband may not wish her to share details in which she should not.

mo5
I agree with you that CM can speak for herself when/if she is ready.

I have always supported CM telling her husband the truth so she can begin building her marriage from that point of letting the truth be known.

I can't speak for any other MBer, but as for myself, I support telling the truth. I support the Basic Concepts of MB. Whether or not she chooses to share it on MB is her business. Whether or not she feels supported here is also her business.

If anyone feels like they are coming to post on Marriage Builders to get bashed or to bash others, then I say they need to get a life! I don't believe the majority of us are here for that purpose. At least I'm not. So I don't know what you are implying but it sounds like you are getting defensive when there is no reason to be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda last year:
<strong>Wow, you seem to be the one in a fantasyland. I have been the OW for 6 years and my mm has never said the things you say your husband told you and his ow. We struggled and tried to stop our relationship, we both have been with our spouses since highschool. We didn't experience the incredible intimacy as you claim and although sex isn't the driving force in an affair, believe me, if it were that good in your bed, he would never have left it to make love to his other love.
I think you are trying too hard to convince yourself of what marriage really is. I spent plenty of monotonous time with my lover, it wasn't all roses as you seem to think. We have seen all sides, good and bad of eachother, etc. We still are in love. He and I care for our spouses very much and because of children, we have decided not to pursue divorces. So you see, we remain in marriages, but not because our souls are doing anything with the spouse's soul. People change. People fall out of love. My lover and I struggled with our feelings, we weren't telling eachother what we thought the other wanted to hear, we didn't even want to admit our feelings for a long time. We didn't know how to muster up the desire to be with our spouses to keep the marriage alive. All things we talked to eachother about but don't be fooled to think your husband is going to tell you all.
I'm not trying to be hurtful, but your response more about trying to hurt someone and not about realty. Most deceived spouses can't believe this but many of us stay with in our marriages because of baggage issues (children, family,money, property, etc) not because our souls are united and we are so in love with spouse and sex is so good with them. Get in the real. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is an example of how CMiranda introduced herself to this marriage building site...

I think we have a right to be curious on her MB efforts since this time. I have heard her say different things here and there about being in love with her husband, but nothing really concrete.

I'm not saying that I'm the perfect MBer either, we all have room to improve. All we can go by is what people post here. Maybe some are sincere, maybe some do just come here to see who they can bash. I'm not one of them.

I have been lurking for quite some time. I started reading at one point when there was a huge fight going on and I stopped for awhile. But, I thought I would give it a try so I have been reading again for the last few months.

Dawn and Binthere, I have looked for CMiranda's post where she shared the truth with her H. I looked because her posts (like the one Binthere posted) were the major reason why I stopped reading for awhile. I could not find any.

My H has an OC who is 2 years old. I am just now starting to recovery (some days) from this horrific event in my life. I can only imagine how devastating it would be to a man to have a child who I thought was mine only to find out that I was not his biological father.

My point here is that CMiranda can jump in daily and pound BS's to the ground but suddenly she is asked to explain herself and cat's got her tongue! I don't believe for one minute that she is going through the hell of telling her H that their child is not really his and all she can say is "things are fine..."

Doesn't sound right... unless she is a candidate for sainthood and so is her husband.

Marie

I dont think it is so hard to believe, MY husband and I went through the some of the same, and he and I have managed to work through many problems, by compromising and listening, and remembering what ever we do effects the other person just as much.
My daughter is not his bio child, but he is her daddy in every sense of the word. You have to remember for a bs who is a man and his wife has a child, MOst have been there through the pregnancy and birth and have bonded with this baby. Certainly cm;s husband has, and although devistating and it goes through many stages, He like my husband still loves his wife and still loves that baby... so if it is meant to be, you work it out.

By the way, she works a busy job and is not on here every day, so I am sure that is the reason she has not responded.

Oh well, all I can say is there seems to be no way on earth to simply allow CM to answer for herself on this thread, is there?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Yeah, mariel I searched the board too--MB member #18147--I found nothing specific...

In all fairness to CM, we should not assume that major changes have nottaken place, it's none of my business anyway. I can safely say that for the most part on MB, posters are interested in rebuilding their marriages after affairs (not promoting them), and MBers genuinely embrace the concepts presented on this site...

Wow...alot of conjecture about me and my marriage while I'm away.
First and as always, thanks Mo5 for sharing what you actually do know about me in my absense.

Its true, I don't spend much time here anymore. For a variety of reasons, I am very busy at work and was not working as diligently as I should have been because I was reading here far too often on my employers time. I found that I was remaining stuck and obessing about issues that were not really my issues at all. I was immoblized with fear that my H would react in the same way as some of the bs's here have, at least as they have on this board. I had to get in touch with my own reality. There are often too many triggers here. I say that in respect to being both a fws and fow. I did get some support but for the most part, there is a certain script that is acceptable and I'm not a scripted kind of person. For example, bc failed in my case, and I chose to share that here. I don't respond well to the person confronting me about being an excuse maker. I would prefer to retreat to my quiet world where my H and I can talk honestly to eachother without the insults.

As well, btdt is correct, it has been little over a year since I landed here. While she found it meaningful to dig out some post made in reference to something else that was posted, who knows what it was and at this point, I'm not sure who really cares. To bring us to the present, I still get needled by some posters, as recently exhibited on the locked thread, when I say something as honest as the pill does fail and it is not always a plot by the ow. So with that, I am very reluctant to share and that has been true for at least 4-6 months I would guess. I've mentioned the most recent example, but there has been the history behind why I chose not to share certain details. I've seen xow who have made full disclosure still be told to get off the board, wib and m05 are two good examples, when their views are met with contention. (again the script concept imo) It takes alot for me to trust people and without that trust, I will not disclose the details of my disclosre except in private conversations. My H has seen some of the posts on this board, particularly recently and he finds no value in continuing to subject himself to that sort of mentality. It doesn't work for him and if you knew him, you would see why. He is a very soft and gentle kind of guy who has little bad to say about anyone. And I mean that even in regards to xom. He is harder on himself than anyone, which I wish were not the case. What he has been doing and what we have been doing together to overcome our problems and move on has been working for us. We continue our mc which has been an invaluable healing tool. As for sainthood, it's a nice thought but far from the truth. Although my husband is a very quiet, laid back kind of person which works to both our advantage and our disadvantage. I have not been subject to the kinds of words and anger that I have witnessed here, by him. Without getting into too much detail, he has owned his role in the breakdown of our marriage because we had specific issues related to his behavior. He has some guilt over that and I believe that is why he is more subdued about my affair overall. He also says he knew about it before I told him. That is all I will say about that.
While there are many here that have extended themselves to me personally and have been a wonderful source of support, there are others that have said certain things that I will not forget. In light of that fact there is a limit to what I will post here about my life, and in particular, I will not breach my husbands right to privacy by posting about his recovery as an individual, based on what has been revealed to me.
Fine is relative by the way. Some days we truly are doing wonderfully fine. Other days are a stuggle yet overall, we are doing better than we have ever before in our relationship.
Hopefully I have answered some of your questions.

CM

Edited to add: I chose not to discuss my child, who is far from 7 years old, here for the mere fact that my child is off limits. I have been molded to understand that if someone wants to take shots at me as a person, call me names, whatever, I can take it for what it is worth. Boot camp will harden anyone; except, where my child is concerned. I'm a wimp and therefore this area is Off limits.

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

I for one remember CM posting that she had told her husband the truth. It was buried in a reply on someone else's thread. I remember congratulating her for having the courage to do this. I wish her all the luck in the world in applying MBer techniques and rebuilding her marriage.

When we speak about CM, let's just remember that although she was an OW, she is also an ex-WS trying to repair her marriage. As an exWS her point of view is bound to be different from ours--probably most of the time. A marriage that has a long and difficult history. There was no valid excuse for entering into an affair, but from what I have gathered, she and her husband have had a very difficult marriage from the very beginning. Most of us can remember good times in our marriage when there was a real sense of togetherness. I am not sure that they ever had that. CM's husband was an addict and dysfunctional for much of their marriage and they had trouble overcoming the damage that he did during his drinking times.

Let's please recognize the growth that she has gone through and her increased willingness to stand up and be accountable for her wrongs. Please don't tar and feather her for things she said when she first came here. She has grown and changed. So have we all.

This came across as more "preachy" and aren't-I-perfect than I meant it to be. I tried to rewrite it and can't figure out the words to make it better. Honestly, I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone; I was just asking for us to extend to CM some of the grace we have extended to our own ex-WSs and that God has shown to us. I know that Mr. J screwed up our finances in a big way yesterday and I was kind and gentle with him. I didn't excuse the behavior, but I was gentle in my response. No need to punish him--he does that very well on his own. I was then shocked when he turned around and hammered our older son for similar behavior. When we hold other people accountable we need to remember how much we have been forgiven and how little any of us deserve God's grace (me especially).

MJ

mo5 I could be wrong, but perhaps you missed the question to CM, it is not whether or not her husband loves the OC, the question is whether or not her husband knows the paternity of the OC... That is the question... Is the affair exposed in the full light of day?

I mean, if you go by what CM said about a year ago, it doesn't even sound like she wants to be married to her husband?!! It also sounds like the OM didn't love CM enough to leave his family!!?? I could be wrong, but that's what it sounded like to me...

It sounded like they were both cowards.

I'm not saying this to be mean. Maybe scared is a softer word? What is the difference?

CM--if you are lurking, just know that you don't have to prove yourself to me, it just makes me curious about you when you post here calling me a hypocrite. When you call me a hypocrite it just makes me question your style of marriage building.

Maybe my delivery is not as loving as it could be, granted. But it doesn't mean that God doesn't love you or that He is not interested in your quality of life. Maybe you are not even to that point of trusting God's love for you yet? I don't know.

But of course God forgives you--past present and future. He doesn't play favorites. He forgave you at the cross. He forgave me and I believe I was much worse off than you! I wasn't even married when my OC was born! I didn't even have any cushion to hide behind, so to speak. My sin was completely exposed. I could have had an abortion, but I had done that already so that was not in my plan. I could have given the baby up, but there was no way. I wasn't in love with the MM--how raunchy is that? And the way my life is now, I have to believe that God has love for me. There's no other way to make sense of it?

If I am being a hypocrite to encourage you to tell your husband the whole truth, and that's how you see me, I can't change your mind. All I can tell you is that when you believe God's love for you and you believe that God is for you, no one can be against you. You have the majority on your side.

I just believe that for you, the truth and exposing the truth of your situation will set you free in so many ways! But mostly, it will give you peace of mind in your quiet time: in the shower, in the mirror, driving around in your car, sitting at your desk, when conversations come up that trigger your thought-processes. You don't have to live with inner turmoil while pretending that everything is fine on the outside. That's why it's freedom. No, it ain't pretty on the outside, but at least you will be free! No more having your peace in someone else's head.

OTOH, if your truth is that you want to leave your marriage and be with the OM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Then that is a nightmare. So in order to rebuild your marriage, you probably have to go all the way back to the reasons you married your husband and begin to rekindle your romantic love for your husband. It is possible!

MJ,

We posted at the same time...you have a very good memory and a very forgiving heart. You have always been someone in my opinion who leads by example and not by words alone, a true inspiration to me that anything is possible if I try.
It is true, our relationship was in shambles (is that even a word)? before we got married. I was too afraid to back out of our commitment because the whole thing was planned, etc. It was not that I did not love my husband, but we had problems that should have been resolved before we took our vows. Marriage doesn't fix or change anyone, hard lesson to learn... I do love him very much in spite of the fact that we have alot of healing to do, both of us.
I remember learning about the progression of the co-dependent. At the mid-point was "infidelity". I remember thinking as a very young girl who was always faithful, like a dog... never! I will never do that! I learned never say never.
Thank you for your empathy and support. It is really appreciated because I know that it can not always be an easy thing to do.

CM

CM,

Looks like we cross-posted. I am glad to see your response and glad to hear that things are improving.

I for one have appreciated your point of view. I think I heard from you things that my H might never have said to me. I don't know if your feelings throughout your affair mirror his, but I have seen other ways of looking at this. I think a major difference is that he says he had no cause for an affair and he says that I have met his needs. Ours was an enjoyable marriage full of the things that most people say are important to them--recreation, sense of humor, shared goals, lots of private time (no kids for 20 years). He says it was a big huge ego thing that he got caught and trapped in. On D-day he said he didn't know if he loved her, that he had told her that, but that he wasn't really sure what it meant anymore. Maybe he had stronger feelings and he won't tell me to protect me. I don't know and in all honesty, I don't think I will ever know. It was painful, but somehow good for me, to see how strong your in-love feelings were for OM. Whatever he may have felt for her no longer hurts me. He is a grown man and can make his own decisions. If he didn't want to be here, he could have left. I will take his decision to stay at face value. He says it is because he loves me, loves me in ways he never loved her nor anyone else and I choose to believe him. I know that now he only feels disgust when he thinks of her. I didn't ask for that, but I'll take that on face value also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know that I haven't met his need for an attractive spouse and although I have achieved some progress in that area, I still have a lot of work to do.

I for one believe that birth control can and does fail. Hell, I had a sister get pregnant on those damn norplant implants. You could see them under her skin and she still got pregnant. Some OW lie and try and trap a man and some get pregnant on accident. Mr. J claims a broken condom. I know it is rare, but I chose to believe him because he is showing a 2+ year history of honesty.

I am glad your H sees his role in the breakdown of the marriage. It has got to make it easier on you. I am also glad that he isn't abusing you with your previous wrongs. We BSs have to be careful--we don't get to play the "Holier Than Thou" trump card forever. You either make the choice to forgive and give up that power to punish the other, or you chose to divorce and move on with new lessons learned for any future relationships.

I understand why you might want to keep away and retain privacy. I also understand what you mean about using your employer's time for MBer stuff. I was guilty and I am starting to slip back into it. I try to post only when I feel truly moved. Unfortunately, that means I am still doing far too much reading here.

I wish you, you H and your son continued healing. I hope and pray for nothing but joy for your restoring marriage and a lifetime of peace and contentment. Keep your focus on what is most important in life--your husband, home and child.

Blessings,
MJ

BTDT

my response was about what marieluvsrich said in her thread, that she didnt see how it was possible, I was just telling her it is..Very possible for two people a bs and ws to put it all behind them and work it out.

btdt, I really do not know how to respond to your posts. I was inclined not to but decided to briefly respond.
First you say it is your right to to know how things are going then you say it isn't your business. I'll take that as a wash..
The only other thing I want to comment about is the hypocrite comment. I'm sure it is an old comment that you are refering to, I don't recall it, but regardless, I would say that I most certainly didn't call you a hypocrite because you believed I should reveal my affair to my H. Please, btdt, that is ridiculous and absurd. If I called you a hypocrite, it was because you said something that contradicted yourself and the God-like approach you take in your posts. That is my guess but really since its old news it doesn't matter now.

CM,

I am very happy that your marriage is in recovery. When re-reading my post from yesterday, it sounds harsh. I think I was reacting to the many times that I wanted to post on MB but was stopped by extremely harsh things you were saying. You drove me off of this board more times than I have fingers to type.

MaryJanes put things into perfect perspective for me. Your marriage and your affair are unique and that is probably why many of us cannot relate to you and you haven't been able to relate to us.

If your H had severe addiction problems during your marriage, it is not a surprise that your turned for comfort to someone else. And, although it must still be painful for your H to know the truth, his understanding of the situation is also understandable.

But I don't believe your situation is the norm and certainly not on this board. Most of us were shocked to learn that our spouses were involved with other people. In my own case, I know that I was wrapped up in my fertility problems but I believed that was something WE were sharing as a couple. All other aspects of our marriage were ideal by most standards, just like MaryJanes said.

You might have been an OW who turned to a MM because he offered you something that you were desperately missing in your marriage. Most OWs are not so noble.

I actually envy your situation. My H says that the OW never meant much to him. I find that the saddest statement of all because he threw away a life so beautiful and full of possibilities for something that "never meant much".

Although it would have been harder for him to come out of his fog, in a way, I would have understood it better if he was conflicted and had real feeling for the ex-OW. Falling out of love with me would have made more sense.

I am very happy for you and I wish you and your H all the best as you take your baby steps towards full recovery and the rich full life that every married couple deserves.

Marie

I don't remember she did one way or the other.
Though it would be nice if she did tell us once and for all.

CMiranda:

I for one remember your early posts. And I'll say, in spite of the fact that you haven't yet told your H about your child (?), you've clearly grown a lot in the past year.

Sometimes I think I've "made it" regarding starting recovery, but then "news" like just two days ago comes up - my W just talked to RM on the phone... But we're doing better over all. I'm just very depressed about it all of a sudden.

I wish you and your family all the best in the future,
-Qfwfq (fka T-zero, 2long)