To some members and "visitors" of the P/C forum:

PLEASE remember the nature and PURPOSE of this forum---"to SUPPORT others in building or rebuilding their marriages."

AND review the registration agreement and MB policy you acknowledged when you joined Marriagebuilders..

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB."

There is enough hurt and pain on this forum without intentionally creating more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

*****sigh*****
(Dusting off the "Time-out" chairs but hoping everyone will "play nice")

Any problems or questions, please feel free to email me.

Well said Justuss!

*********up********

Co-moderator's of this board. When I first came to MB and P/C forums, I did not feel welcome. I remember one+half years ago, I posted that my H hung up on one of his OC. mof jumped down my throat, and put my loving H down. She never asked why. We have had no contact since 1996.

As I learn more on this board, I believe this post forum should be divided into those with no contact, and those with contact with OC'(s).

Obviously, this is where the disagreements and the self-righteousness starts.

I think support, and disscussion, would also be more encouraging to parties involved in both these very different choices.

Our goal, rebuilding our marriage, is being reached differently.

Has MB ever considered braching off NC/C?

Just asking, and interested.

Looking forward to your response.

ember

It seems to me when posters come here with very defensive postures if anything is misunderstood--they end up jumping down someone's throat--just an observation, not an attack. A lot of people are walking on eggshells nowadays it seems. It is confirmed when bad behavior or non-MB advice is pointed out and inflammatory exchanges start flying. It shows their defensive state of mind.

Oldtimers get used to it and just ignore even if sometimes it is very difficult to sit by and watch how newbies could be misled or not given advice based on MB concepts.

It's easy to tell the ones who have at least studied the concepts and/or read Dr.Harley's books. The ones who have counseled with the Harley's and still stick around are invaluable to this forum.

ember
There is an IGNORE feature available, although I have never used it.

BtDt, Why do you feel threatened by my suggestions to the moderators of this board?

Because of my suggestions, you wouldn't have to use the ignore features. Do you know why? Because all would be supporting , not only of their marriage building, but also in how they were building their marriages, ethier C, or NC.

It was only a suggestion. You did not have to get so defensive.

Also, my suggestion was not intended for you. It was intended for the moderators of the board.

I, now, hope they take my suggestion seriouly.

ember

ember,

Your suggestion is appreciated, acknowledged and will be passed on to the Administration. However, having been here for some time, you must know this topic (splitting this forum) has come up numerous times in the past.

As moderators, we do pass on the requests and suggestions from the forum to the Admin. So far we have NEVER been told "no,,it's impossible" but we have not received any notices of changes so far. Hopefully they are still considering it.

ember,,,,,, i think the problem lies in the fact that so few of us have what i will call really good communication skills. along with the fact of the touchyness of this particular situation. add peoples natural instinct of self preservation and you can see how easy it is for useless garbage to start flying. when a new person comes here they most likely feel their life is in a spiral dive to nowhere. sometimes advice seems harsh and pointed but in reality it is just such a contrasting position that it seem like a personal attack. many times people take someone elses explaination of their experiences as an attack just because it differs from their own viewpoint. no one here is claiming to be an expert just having walked down a similar road.

i personally have gained much insight from not only others that see things the way i do but from those on the other side of the fence. it has allowed me to see things from my wife's perspective which has helped us tremendously in our recovery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When I first came to MB and P/C forums, I did not feel welcome. I remember one+half years ago, I posted that my H hung up on one of his OC. mof jumped down my throat, and put my loving H down. She never asked why. We have had no contact since 1996.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ember I do remember you mentioning your husband hung up on his child the other day, however I did not jump down your throat if I did I am sorry . You came to this forum a year before I ever signed on, look at the bottom of our post, I have not even been here a year and half. You were here first and if you were not welcome then it was not because of me.

I have a different view thats all, we all do, Just like I dont like being called an ow when I am a ws.. You all still do it. Just like I dont like being told that I must be thinking or feeling when it isnt true, It still happens, Your entittled to your opinions. I have learned from some of you and others it would be best to ignore, You have a choice, you can not respond to my post at all if you dont like what I have to say. I have been called names, told I got pregnant on purpose, told I have a [censored] child who isnt worthy of good things happening to her. all kinds of crazy stuff and been told to go away a hundred times. but guess what I am a married woman who still works on her marriage and does follow some[not all of these principles. I am suprised and amazed at some of the things I see and read and yes sometimes I am offended , sometimes I just laugh, but you know we are all different, I learn from some of the people here dealng with these issues, unfortunately there isnt any one here that has the same situation as I do.

I find it odd that it is ok for you and others who are a bs, to say and think what you want, even if hurtful to others on this site, but if your a ws who happens to have an opinion a certain way you can be told all kinds of nasty things and it seems to be ok. Your right some things I say are not going to help you, but they may help someone else understand a diferent side, How do you fix a marriage if you all just sit around and decide there is only one side to things ?

We can just agree to disagree and I certainly meant no harm to your loving husband. I personaly dont care if he hung up on his child, It is something he will have to deal with in his time, sad for the child, but maybe he will learn from it and grow to be a more loving father because he didnt have one.
I have had quite a few of you jump down my throat because I speak to my daughters father several times a week and see him frequently. But hey this is how our life is and will stay from now on. We all have to do what we have to do. I am accused of not mb'ing but I do this with my husbands approval and knowledge. So actually I am not doing so bad.
so when I disagree with something, take it as that please, just a disagreement, I dont think I am better or worse, just different. since I gave my opinion to someone who asked for any questions or comments, its just that an opinion.

Ember I recall you saying some pretty harsh things before, but we are a little old to be playing who said what. just ignore what you dont like, and if you post I will not respond to you. pops is right sometimes we all have bad days[bad communication] and give our opinions when we shouldnt, I think we have all done that during the past year. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hope that will help in some way. Again I have said a dozen times if the parties involved want no contact. I think it is a good idea.. see I have changed my opinions since I got here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Good day all time for bed, I AM BEAT. That brood of mine has tired me out today.

<small>[ April 15, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

OMIGOSH ember!
I think pops hit the nail on the head when he said the word "miscommunication." Wow!

I was not being defensive in my above posts! I was trying to avoid mentioning any names because for some reason mentioning names comes across as an attack if/when there is no question. & I rest my case. I apologize for chiming in on your thread to the moderators... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

But first, before I butt out of your thread, (now that I AM feeling sort of defensive) I just want to say that I raised my OC with no contact and I advocate no contact for the sake of saving the original marriage and avoiding rekindling affairs so why on earth would I feel threatened by your suggestion to split the P/C forum? What I'm trying to say is hellooo I was agreeing with you??!!?? Hope that helps clear up my position...

<small>[ April 16, 2003, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

100% of people will not be happy 100% of the time. Trying to achieve that end will only lead to failure and frustration. What would stop anyone from going to the other side, either nc or c and post their opposing viewpoint? Nothing except constant policing by the sysops and the random usage of the delete key. As evidenced this week.

mof5,

several times, you have questioned why people treat you like a former ow when, in fact, you are a ws. there have been times where you've come across to me more like a former ow than a ws. i think you're presenting yourself that way through your comments.

not trying to start anything, just wanted to offer my observations.

1974,,,,, again i say that this is a communication problem. if i were to tell 3 people that i hate my wife for what she did.. person 1 may think i want to conk her upside the head with a bat. person 2 may think that i am hell bent for divorce. and person 3 may think i am a fool for staying married. 1 statement --- 3 completely different outlooks. communication.

i have seen here many times where someones poat is disected and the whole meaning is turned around.

mo5 i am in no way trying to defend you on this but since they have mentioned your name i hope you don't mind i i use you as an example here.

mo5 is or has worn many peoples shoes here. if you knew her background you would know that she has been a bs many times, she has been an (no offense intended) ow in the eyes of her exom's wife, and she has been a ws. she is also a very protective mother and is contiueing a contact relationship with her d and om while at the same time understanding how nc may have been better in her personal life. because of her having seen this issue from so many sides and is willing to offer advice accordingly doesn't make her an ow or a bs or a ws. it simply makes her a person trying to seek answers or help others like the rest of us.

point being we all need to look at someones complete history and try to understand where they are coming from before we post. i have not posted many times here as certain things have enraged my temper and i realized nothing good could come of a post at that time. so i wait until i can communicate on a better level without offending anyone.

i may post something bitter about that om in my situation but that does not mean that i am attacking any om's that may be on this board.

again good day,,, pops

Very true pops!

And, if I may, just to take your scenerio one step further, I think the reactions of the 3 people you have told that you hate your wife depend alot on THEIR history.

Person #1 was a BH. He may fully agree with you. He may be very supportive and confide his own hate for what his wife has done, adding fuel to your tirade. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Person #2 was a BW. While she may agree with you, she may have some empathy for the W and wonder what in the world allowed your W to take the path she did, therefore putting YOU on the defensive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Person #3 was a FWW. She may feel the need to defend your W. Without having been in YOUR W's EXACT shoes or in your history, she may feel personally attacked by vent regarding YOUR FWW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And thus, the attacks begin. If we could only read a post without taking the vents PERSONAL. Pops attack on the his FWW would be for HIS and HER situation,THEIR history, ,not against ALL FWW!

Oh, so easy to say. And so hard to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Mom05 is also a BS lets not forget. I'm both ws and xow too. Just as many of the spouses here are ws and xom. Integrated into one being exists the makeup of all that apply. I've read threads on the other site from BS's who are or were OP's. Its not uncommon and with that said, depending on what the topic of discussion is, a pov from that experience of our life comes to factor in to our reply, whether it past or present.

I thought a long time before posting to this thread. I have read, and re-read all the replies and can see where everyone is coming from. The main thing that I would like to say is can't we just drop the bickering and get back to repairing and rebuilding our marriages?! It is painful to me, and probably many others, to see all the fighting, accusing, posture taking when it is said OVER and OVER again that everyone's stories are unique to their situations! Not just that, but we don't always share ALL the details, as this is an annonymous(sp is awful forgive me for mistakes) forum, and too many details could reveal what we want kept private.

That said, I can see your reasoning for thinking this board would be best divided, but I can see the benefit of keeping it as it is! There are many times when a BW has come to this board, not knowing which route to take, and if the board was divided to two new boards, they may just give up with the need to make double posts to get the input from the experienced crowd of contact or no contact.

Many others have said, repeatedly, to "agree to disagree", but there are ways to do that, and I believe that Pops has it right. If something has "raised your blood pressure" DON'T RESPOND WHILE YOU'RE STILL "ANGRY"! That just leads to what we are looking at right now! I have, many times, started to post out of the frustration or anger, and ended up just signing off the board for a while. Then, I will later post, or just not post at all on that particular thread!

This board was created for the BS who are dealing, in one way or another, with the OC from an A. But, that doesn't mean that those who were the WS are not welcome here, but, the origin of this board WAS for the BS. I am a BS, but not the one dealing w/the OC, as the OC is mine! There is the difference, so on this part of the forum, this specific board, I am the WS, and the OW! I have been accepted here, and am very greatful for that! I have made many lifetime friends from this board, and have some major respect for many more!

I would hate to see this board divided as has been suggested! I think we all need to take some deep breaths, calm our tempers and get back to what's important! That's using this board to help us rebuild/repair our marriages, and use the principles of this site as well! Discussion on how those principles help is what helps others, not who's situation is the one to adhere by! Case in point, adgirl's question about contact/no contact went unanswered for a day! I didn't know exactly where to find the info, but many others did/do, but we were all tied up in the latest balogna on the board! I did look, and only found what btdt had found, but didn't post it, as I wanted a little more to offer.

So, lets get to what's important, those of us in recovery, and help the new posters to the board by sharing our experiences, and not attacking others here.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now. I just would love to see the board back to it's productive status!

God Bless

Tigger

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>Mom05 is also a BS lets not forget. I'm both ws and xow too. Just as many of the spouses here are ws and xom. Integrated into one being exists the makeup of all that apply. I've read threads on the other site from BS's who are or were OP's. Its not uncommon and with that said, depending on what the topic of discussion is, a pov from that experience of our life comes to factor in to our reply, whether it past or present.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> oh, dear. let me see if i can smooth things over as i have appeared to offend/piss off many. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

i agree w/ cm, and that's basically what i was trying to say in my post. when a ws/bs is saying something derogatory about the op in their situation and gets criticized for it by a ws or bs who was an op, it's hard for the ws/bs that gets criticized to take the person in that instance as a ws or bs because it seems like they've shifted into the op pov.

i was simply trying to explain how it may be hard for some on this board to see her only as ws. does anyone understand? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> or is it the guillotine for me? "off with her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> head!"

Nah, this thread ain't nothin' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Nobody seems pissed off to me anyways. We've all seen the ugliness of the last few days explode here and that was really the essence of pissing in someone elses cup of soup. Accusatory, inaccurate recall of a persons story, [censored]-umptions, and sheer ugliness combined with utter misrepresentation of oneself, - if those things are avoided, we'll do just fine with one integrated forum imho.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">several times, you have questioned why people treat you like a former ow when, in fact, you are a ws. there have been times where you've come across to me more like a former ow than a ws. i think you're presenting yourself that way through your comments.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">gee I guess your right, by the way what exacty is the husband who is the ws. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .. he is the om.. which by the way is the same thing as being the ow funny how that works. Do your loving husbands all have the mentality of a om, or do you see the ws side only.. I happen to know most have two sides, I have seen them in my husband and om.

I just write what I think, I see things differently . We cant all solve our problems the exact same way, I do it a little different and while it may not work for you, It does for my and my husband and my children and om doesnt seem to be doing to bad either. So I guess we all win.. Just think if there ere a book and you only thought one way, how boring life would be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />