In this time of instability it hit me that we could live another 30 years and we could be killed tomorrow. Our children are, 9 yrs, 15yrs, 21, 25,26. The OC is 9 yrs.
Our wills were written after "D day" and his will specifically lists the OC as being excluded and not having anything due from his estate. All goes to me, then our children and to my brother.

That said here is my dilemma, the children do not know of OC or A. I feel we should tell them now and help them deal with their feelings about their father's betrayal of our marriage and family. Yet if we live another 30 years why tell?
My concern is if they learn of the OC when we die isn't that a horrible legacy to leave them. They would be dealing with 2 losses. One would be the loss of both of us, the other the loss in the belief that we had a "perfect" marriage.
Any one else have thoughts?

I thought of telling the person who will be our executor so that person would be prepared to help them. Then I thought of leaving a letter in which their father explains everything about his affair ie why, who,where, when, and how sorry he was, etc. This with a letter from me explaining my thoughts about his affair and that after all was said and done we still loved each other and believe we created a better relationship in spite of his affair. I don't know. Maybe I am worrying about nothing, but I just worry about my "babies".

Tell me what you think,
Texasgirl

if you feel you need to discuss it with older three, maybe. but 9 and 15 don't seem to be mature enough to have to hear it. perhaps just the oldest, or a trusted friend, family member?

out of curiousity, why is oc excluded totally? i can understand no contact, but even after death?

Thanks for response. I still don't know what will work best. I just don't want to add to their grief when we are gone.
Your "curious question", My H felt his OW deliberatly got pregnant the last time he saw her, after telling her it was the last time. It was a last ditch effort on her part to get him to leave me. He didn't want another child, he was in ML crisis, she, the OW was an escape from commitments, responsibilites, and running from turning 40, (he was 39, she was 23). If she wanted the child to have a family she could have given child to us.
Also, he chose no contact, again felt the OW got pg, she could raise her child herself and be responsible. We pay child support and will until the OC is 18. He has never seen her and that was his choice.
Also, the little bit we leave was planned for our children to care for them when they no longer had us, especially if they were young. If we are both gone, they have no one, OC will still have her mother. If something happend to her mother we would then incorporate her into our lives.
To us contact with OC meant contact with OW and we didn't want that. Plus, we have always lived 1000 miles from the OC/OW. She was too young to contact then. Now, what's the point?
Please don't let this become a thread about how we dealt with OC. Each person here has dealt with each situation in ways best suited for them and their marriages. My concern is my children.

thanks, TXgirl

Hey a new topic that I don't think we have ever covered here.

Pleae understand that I am only expressing my point of view. I don't consider myself to be an unkind person and their is no malice in what I am writing or what we decided to do about estate planning.

Our estate is also set up so OC is disenherited. As for disinheritence it seemed necessary to protect what we had built together over a long marriage. We felt that the life insurance was a fair and honest thing to do, but that OC and exOW had no right to what we had earned and saved in our marriage. In some states without this specific "disinheritence" the exOW, on behalf of the OC, can claim up to 25% of my H's estate if he dies before me. We were once wealthy, but much of that wealth came through my hard work as well as my H's. (And for a number of years now, I have been earing a far larger salary than he did. It doesn't seem fair (to me) for anyone to benefit by this hideous betrayl. His military pension is for me, the wife who stood by him all those difficult years of military service. His 401K (and mine) are ours, results of our hard work in the business world. We are no longer earning the kinds of income and stock income that we once did. We may manage to hold onto some of what we earned, but no one knows for sure. That wealth was built in the marriage.

There is a life-insurance policy that will diminish in value over the years so that by the time she is out of college it has no value. We did it this way so that H would meet his obligation to child support, even if he weren't here. In some states if you don't take care of this, the estate can be forced to pay child support even if the bio parent is dead. That isn't true in all states, but there is life insuance to make sure our kids don't suffer needlesssly and it seemed a fair way to make sure that OC didn't either. However, that is the extent of my generosity.

We care for OC, we have some limited visitation. We would never want to see her left out in the cold. But the God's honest truth is that once we have met our obligations for support, what we do with our money is our choice. That includes not having to leave anything to our children of the marriage if we so choose, as long as we have provided for their needs until they are of age. Beyond a small inheritence, most of our money will go to a charity of our choice. Probably one to fund adoptions for people who want to adopt but cannot. I don't think kids should inherit too much from their parents. To me, it sends a wrong message. My H and I never will inherit from our parents; there is nothing there to inherit. We paid our own way through college, busted our tails and achieved what we have. I think it is a good lesson for all to learn, including my own children.

MJ

Texasgirl,
Has it occurred to you that they[your children] may be angry if you never tell them the truth , that they have a sibling out there you denied them ? I dont know just a worry I would have I understand your concern for your children, I didnt want to tell mine, but we needed to since om was going to be involved in D life from now on, and now involved in their lives in a way.
children are so forgiving, yes there will be difficulties and questions, but they adjust.

As far as your will goes, Its your money you should do as you please with it. I would be betting that oc will want no part of it any way, so I dont think you should worry about it.

OM has an insurance policy for daughter and he has already made me copies of pics of him growing up and his parents, I have things he has given her and passed on from his life. I also can tell her about his entire life, she has many photos of her with him, and she will have many memories, I dont see how money would change that one way or the other, I infact told him I would prefer they not include her, beause I didnt want to deal with it when the time came. So we have taken care of it privately ahead of time. Now when My husband and my self die she will be included evenly along with all the other children.
I can say of all the things I cherrish most about my father are the memories. The rest is monetary, material and can be replaced.

I dont have an answer for your question except to say Living a life with a huge secret is a terrible way to live and you may find great relief in getting it out in the open and saving the hurt down the road. Secrets always come out sooner or later... The main reason we decided to tell our daughter the truth, we didnt want her to think we lied to her denied her something.She had a right to know who she was and that we love her so much we wanted her to know the truth. My husband was afraid it would hurt his relationship down the road with her if we lied. , this way she see all and makes her own choices later.
This is the way we handled our situation and I have to say life is pretty good these days, But it is only one way to handle it.
I wish you luck.

texas, i wasn't attacking or even being critical. i just wondered what the reason for it was. some feel financially responsible, including death benefits, while others don't. i understand both! and i can agree with taking care of your kids first. that's as it should be, regardless of how or why she became pregnant, the firstborn take priority for me!

I am 53 years old. When I was 15, I was living with my "perfect" parents. There was a knock at the door. And there stood a handsome young man, 4 years older than myself.

My half brother. I never knew he existed before that night. I have never seen him since.

My father was married before my parents were married. This was during WWII. The 1st wife got pregnant, she then told my dad he was not the father of her baby, that she was having an affair. The marriage was brand-spanking new .... less than 6 months. They had an annulment. The woman went on to marry 5 more times, and have 4 other kids with different men. She always told her eldest that Mr. W (my father) was his birth father. There was never any child support. Never any contact. Just this story that she repeated to him over and over growing up about his "real" dad.

So, the boy grows up, and makes it his business to find "dad". There was never any legal connection. We don't really know if he was actually the bio-dad .... but, he sure looked like my dad!

Just a little cautionary tale .... the now 9-year-old OC currently out of the picture, may grow up, then show up on your doorstep someday!!!

The closet door may open. Be prepared.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pep, I agree, the truth is best.

When you were 15, and opened that door, what conversation took place? Were your parents home? Why have you never had contact with half brother? By choice? How did you feel, and did you ever discuss it with your parents?

ember

Honestly, I know that spectre is always there. It is something I have always wanted to address and that is why I broach this subject. My husband has never wanted the children to know about his "fall from grace". However I believe that the OC will eventually contact us. The last contact we had with the OW she told us that "it was so sweet how she said she got her eyes from Daddy". I hate calling him her father/dad because he has never been one to her. I have felt bad for her, but no one wins in this situation. At the time we felt our full concentration should be on US and our family, esp. given the fact that we were in Ky while she was in another state on the eastern seaboard. Now we are in TX and they are on the eastern seaboard. I feel sure she has been told many stories about my H as she has grown up and knows she has siblings she has never met.
My 2nd son had a friend who was an OC. She was not acknowledged by her father and they lived in the same town. She wanted to know her half-siblings but her mother forbade it. It was heartbreaking talking to her about it.
That's partly why I want to deal with this before we die rather than leave it a "secret" for my children. I believe that we can make it easier for them to deal with then. But, it is also my H's secret to share not mine. I brought it up to him last night, hence this post. I said no decision, just think about it. How do we tell them so it isn't too great a shock?
Or do we gamble and hope we live to ripe old age, and the OC isn't curious about her father and his family. Tough question. No easy out.
Oh for a time machine to go back and undo mistakes made in the past:).
Texasgirl

Jeez.... this was ages ago. Let me remember what I can....

Yes the entire family was home. The boy came in, sat in our living room and my parents asked him vague questions such as , "How are you?", "Did you go to college?" .... stuff like that. He had just returned from working on some ship that went to Australia. I remember thinking to myself; "WOW!! Who is this *HOT GUY* introducing himself to us?" LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I was hoping for a date !!! (I was 15 years old, remember?) It wasn't until he left that my parents explained it to me.

My dad was REALLY emotional after the boy left, and didn't say much. I recall my mother had to do all the "parenting" that evening. (figures, doesn't it?)

I don't think my parents ever heard from him again ... but, I'll ask them next time we talk. Dad is 80, and recently out of the hospital, so I will probably ask Mom.

The story is really a little more complicated than I explained. These details are the makings of a good movie.

My parents were high school sweethearts. They planned to marry when my mom got out of high school. Dad graduated 2 years before mom. Dad went off to WWII. He was a terrible letter-writter. There was a mix-up and Mom thought Dad had been killed. (Dad was on a ship somewhere) Mom dated another guy. Mom got married right out of high school and got pregnant. Dad finally surfaces. Dad returns to the area, only to learn his sweetheart is married and has a baby , living in San Francisco with her husband. Dad gets drunk, gets married on the rebound to a local round-heeled sexy gal. (Dad is husband #1, of a series of men) Then, Mom leaves her husband due to abuse and crazy irrational behavior, takes her baby (my older sister) and returns to the small home town to live with her mother. Dad gets annulled, thinking his wife is pregnant with someone else's baby. Mom gets divorced. They eventually marry. They have been married 55 years.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just trying to think about this logically...and keeping in mind that yeah, there's no really good answer.

My favorite solution to this dilemma would be the letters (one from both of you was a terrific idea)explaining your feelings and your reasoning. That way you live the way you have chosen as best and when the situation is forced, you explain yourself.

This decision was up to you and your husband. It was not up to the children. You have chosen not to have contact and that the children live a life without knowledge of the betrayal. Okay. You thought it out. You chose what you thought was best for all. As adults we take responsibility for the decisions. We may take the children into account, we may even ask their opinion. But in the end, you make the decision. And you did. I'd say live that way. Then if something forces the situation, ie oc showing up, then perhaps you are forced to do something different. And even then you would say "yes this is what happened and this is why we didn't tell you".

But for now, live the way you believe is best. Protect your children for the unexpected future, but live in the present.

Hi
I am new to Marriage builders. I was "surfing" through the board and came to this area because I have a 3 y/o child. After reading I realized what this board was for. ALL I CAN SAY is WOW
You women are pillars of amazing strength, I dont think I could EVER go through this.

I wanted to respond to this thread because of legal advice we received when doing our will.
My DH has some "greedy" siblings and several lawyers in the family. Fearing for our only childs future (and he will be an only child),
It was recommended to us that we will 1.00 to all the siblings in your case it would be OC.
Our attorney said not mentioning (excluding)or "disinheritening"(sp) can open a legal can of worms, Mentioning the relative who feels they deserve a piece of the pie and giving a dollar amount means that you acknowledge there is claim and you give them 1.00.
We are told they cannot contest the will (which would place the estate in probate) or if they attempt too they will lose because we acknowleged them.
NOW that said, child support can be held against the estate (separate issue)just like any other "debt" the estate can be responsible for.
I would just add up what you would have to pay OC for the next 9 years and have a separate life ins policy for that amount set in your will (separate from estate), that way OC's mother cant hold things up for your children. Sounds like she would.
A small term policy like that should not be that expensive and worth it not to have the nightmare
of probate. Plus you can decrease the amount every year so it should not increase in its premiums.

As for telling your children. I would tell the older ones. This happened to a dear friend of mine 4 years ago (finding out about a sib she never knew she had) it was devestating to her, not because the sib exisited, but because her parents hid it from her. It took a couple of years for their relationship to heal. In her case
the sib was older, I can understand your reluctance. This could open a can of worms if the older sibs want to "see" their sib, especially since they have a 9 y/o at home.
You are in a tough spot. Good Luck

Here's another possible other scenario.

I was watching Dr. Phil a few nights ago with a similar but different situation.A woman, in her 50's, was worried she had never told her now twenty something daughter that more than 30 years ago she had had two children, both while single, and adopted them out. She said the daughter had always wished she had siblings when young.She was afraid to tell her daughter, for fear she would think less of her for being loose and having kids out of wedlock.

She decides to tell the daughter this info on t.v. Guess what? The daughter didn't care what she had done-- nor did she want to meet the half siblings she was told about, both with different fathers than her.

She was not unhappy with her mother, because she said "she kept me, " why would I be upset?

It is possible that some children of the marriage will not want or do not want contact with OC. That whenever they are informed, find out,e tc. that meeting that child is not the issue , nor desired by those kids.

Why presume the kids will feel they want contact with this child?

Also, I do not believe that any parent is obligated to leave any money to their children, of marriage or OC./ But I agree about protecting oneself.
I am like Mary Jane-my money, and H's money has been built up over a long marriage. He can take his little money now and leave it to OC if he wishes, but I am not leaving one cent of my share to that child. It goes to my kids. And not all states expect payment by estate for bills owed to child for CS if father dies when child is under 18. It is paid while father alive, but not to be payed by estate if father dies before child is 18.
something to think about;

Unhappy
I totally agree with
"Also, I do not believe that any parent is obligated to leave any money to their children, of marriage or OC."
But we are we talking about court ordered support of a minor child or adult children???

Any court order CAN be held against an estate even Tax debt can. I am sure this varies from state to state. But in my very libral state they protect the minors. And if there is "an estate" and someone contests the estate for court ordered action it would at least place the estate in probate until it can be settled.
I was shocked what our attorney told us on how an estate could be held up. Our attorney is also our uncle so it was not for financial gain to use up our time to assist with our will.

This uncle had to pay alimony to his exwife that he was married to for a few short years he had 2 kids with his first wife (none with the second). In order to protect his kids he had to take out an insurance policy for the alimony to the second
because her alimony was court ordered she could have contested his will. he only had to pay her for 2 years (it was a short marriage). He took out a short term policy and reduced it the second ( thats what gave me the idea, I am not a lawyer). This was for an educated adult woman whom he had been married too for 4 years.
I am sure Txgirl attorney can advise her in her state.

I would feel NO DIFFERENT than you do if I were in your shoes. In fact that "talk" My DH and I have been having regarding having a vasectomy will now be placed on the FRONT burner.
I would hope he would not be unfaithful but I am sure everyone here felt the same at one time.

As far as "telling" I dont know what I would do.
I guess it would make more sense NOT to tell, I cant even imagine.

Here in Louisiana we have what is called a "forced inheritance" thingy....to avoid that we were advised to leave a life insurance policy to the OC and leave the rest to the children of our marriage. (My two older ones from my first marriage will be left something by Mr.T, although he didn't have to do that).

The life insurance policy will cover OC until she is 18 and then he (Mr.T) can will whatever or not will whatever he wants to the OC after age 18. Most likely it will be a small amount and the rest goes the three children we have together and myself. I get half and the rest is equally divided among the children of the marriage according to the state laws here as I was told.

Of course, Mr.T will have to be specific in his will if he wants it differently.

But I agree with the others...who says that we are obligated to even leave money to the children we have together? What if one is more responsible than the others....I can't see how anyone can force inheritance on others....

We are in the process of making a few changes ourselves on a will.

Ah well....OC should have some form of insurance to cover the CS years (Birth to 18).....sadly, our estate is so pitiful, she's lucky if she gets $10.00...and that's after I get ten bucks too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Twiisty

***Why presume the kids will feel they want contact with this child?***

My oldest child knows about OC and could care less about meeting her.
Biology does not make a family.

why presume they wont, I thik you have to be prepared for either.

But your right most children will take on the ideas of the parents but not all.

Thank for all responses. It has been an enlightening process.
I have since learned that someone from TOW board lurked then "hi-jacked" the original post and it created quite a stir. The thread was locked.
Interestingly enough this thread was never about money it was about the children of the marriage, both young and adult. Majority of their posters made it about money, or the lack there of provided for the OC. They all posted about how the BS makes them out to money-grubbing
women, while they actually get very little money.
A big trigger for them was the fact that my H was not intersted in being involved with OC. Again, this was about MY concerns for My children. We don't have to justify why we have done what we have as regards the OC. The real decisions were made by the OW and my H. They agreed to NC. For the one who was interested, I have the letters the show she pursued him.
For the one who sarcastically questioned "the estate", since the affair our money has dwindled significantly. However, any lawyer will tell you even if you just have life insurance, you should leave a will setting up a trust if children are minors. If you have any property, someone must take care of it, minor chilren need guardians.
Do you all have wills providing who will be custodian of your minor children if you and your children's father dies? If you don't you should, you want to be sure the people who have your children's interests at heart will take care of them. If you don't, they end up wards of the state you live in. We have all seen how Social Services work right.
Just a few thoughts.

TG

<small>[ May 29, 2003, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Texasgirl ]</small>

TG,

You are correct how this thread on the other board did get turned around to being all about the money. I was very tempted to put in my $0.02 there, but didn't. What I was going to add is that if you don't want to leave any money to your children, it's up to you(speaking hypothetically here not pointing fingers)! Like you said about providing guardians for the minor children and any "property" to be handled, I agree that anything aquired in the M should be left to the children! NC has been chosen, and the OC will be taken care of till the age of majority! Because of the tensions, that's where it will end.

I would recommend maybe checking with your state, though, about if the OC or OW could contest that nothing was left. If they can contest, maybe leave a dollar! I use this amount from something someone told me a week or so ago. Her FIL has left her step-MIL a dollar! Everything else goes to the kids! Just a suggestion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ok, I'm done now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Tigger

Thanks Tigger for your posts. You said earlier, biology does not make a family. That was the position my H took about the OC. He travels M-F and is home on weekends. The OC was originally 700 mi from us, is now 1200 mi from us. He felt the time and money it would take to spend with her took away from our children and our marriage which he put first in the aftermath of his affair and still does.
He felt he couldn't bond with her emotionally and provide the needs emotionally of our children.
He also felt that the OW would eventually meet a man who was single and together they could create
a family with the OC.
I did try to force it with him, but she refused to deal with me concerning arranging to pick up the child and I was not going to allow them to be alone together again. She was still in a fog herself in the months after her child was born.
Well enough from me
Texasgirl